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I agree w/you that blaming the coaching staff is stupid. However, we all knew this was the direction the FO was going and that the losses were going to mount.
It's too early to say if their plan stinks.
I think there are holes in the plan, but I also think they need time to implement the plan.
Management provides the talent..the HC attempts to mold that talent into a winning team. A HC or OC/DC are only as good as the talent the front office gives them to work with.
If management is creating holes on defense by allowing some of the best talent to leave...that just creates another need to be filled.
If management is not filling those needs with high level talent...don't blame the coaching staff.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Legend
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Dawg, can you imagine what the stands will look like when the Steelers and Cowboys come to town? 
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Swish - I will have a nice day ..
PS. I did watch every single Titan game last year .. I actually watched every second of every game last year ... I get the NFL ticket every year so I can watch 13 of the 16 games every week in 30 minutes ... It's a business decision for me ..
This year unfortunately I don't have the time and I can't record them ... They changed the format to online only ...
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Note / Diam : In the same boat with you .. Was the one Coaching hire I had a real problem with !
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Legend
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Note / Diam : In the same boat with you .. Was the one Coaching hire I had a real problem with ! INCOMING .... INCOMING .... WERE TAKING ON WATER.... INCOMING .... *LOL* ... Get ready my friend ... The seas are rough and were getting bombed ... *L*
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j/c
The most interesting thing about the responses so far is that I haven't read one post in support of the man himself regarding the defense he's put in place. There is plenty of "We have no talent", "It's the FO's fault", "We need more time" and even a "Once upon a time he had us as a top ten D" or two. No one is saying he's a great coach, just the guy we need to get this D turned around. Anyone feel that way?
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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j/c
The most interesting thing about the responses so far is that I haven't read one post in support of the man himself regarding the defense he's put in place. There is plenty of "We have no talent", "It's the FO's fault", "We need more time" and even a "Once upon a time he had us as a top ten D" or two. No one is saying he's a great coach, just the guy we need to get this D turned around. Anyone feel that way? I don't feel either way on that one ... Do I feel he's the guy? .. Maybe ... Maybe not ... I don't think he's NOT THE GUY ... Is there others I'd be more excited about? .. SURE .. Wouldn't say I'm excited about him .... But there's a hell of a lot of others I'd be a lot less pleased with ... LOTS OF THEM ... WE'LL SEE ... Right now I just want the pups to be learning and improving ... That's all this season is about for me ... That and getting 1 WIN ... Just ONE ... That's all I need .. That and IMPROVEMENT ... From Hue also .. He's getting a free pass for some really INEXCUSIBLEY STUPID decisions and calls ..
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i feel he is a good coach.
that's the whole point of me defending him and posting the stats of his defenses. if i didn't feel that way about him, i wouldn't be in this thread to begin with.
his defense has shown it can work. we have a lot of first/second year players who:
have never played together
is their first/second year in the NFL
in a new system.
our defense will be fine once these guys get comfortable in the system and build some chemistry.
but the point that everybody is making is that it wont happen if we keep changing coaches and players every year.
So yea, peg me as team Horton. i don't care if im the minority in that or not either.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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j/c
To be fair to RH, we have (3) safeties on the roster. Two are ITB guys no doubt and show promise although very green.
The other S is Poyer who is a good backup nickle/dime guy who is forced to start, play darn near the entire game, and is the kind of backup good teams continue to have on their roster...but he has to play a lot (the entire game?) because there is literally no one else.
I'd still like to see a Haden or T Williams move to FS. We have many bodies at CB...but not at S.
The FO has churned the bottom of the roster and I like that they are trying to find better guys...I'm just very surprised that they have done virtually nothing to try something more/new at FS.
We think it's bad now? Let's just hope that Poyer doesn't get hurt (***knocks on wood***).
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I'm sorry but where are you getting your information from?
last year he had the Titans defense ranked 12th overall.
they were 7th against the pass at 229.9 yards a game
they were 18th against the run at 112.3 yards a game
sorry but what you're saying and what's actually happening isn't adding up whatsoever.
Do you mean the Titans that were ranked 27th in the more important Points Per Game stat?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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j/c
The most interesting thing about the responses so far is that I haven't read one post in support of the man himself regarding the defense he's put in place. There is plenty of "We have no talent", "It's the FO's fault", "We need more time" and even a "Once upon a time he had us as a top ten D" or two. No one is saying he's a great coach, just the guy we need to get this D turned around. Anyone feel that way?
...Coaches will usually give players drafted a fair amount of time to prove themselves, at least 1 season and more than likely 2 seasons before they give up on a guy.
... Alot can change once a players experiences his first year in the NFL. Once the individual realizes what they need to do to improve themselves, they have the offseason to work on their weaknesses. How much they improve from year 1 to year 2 determines how long they stay.
"It's the FO's fault"...like it or not, the Browns front office was put in place to judge draft talent based on whatever formula they use. They will take the heat if the talent they draft does not measure up. The coaching staff can only work with the talent the front office provides.
"We need more time"...every player on the roster progresses at a rate that can be limited by some factors.
...what college system did the player come from?
...is a player limited physically, mentally or both?
...is the player dealing with an injury?
...above I pointed out that the first offseason a player has can give them a chance to improve themselves. Some make a lot of improvement during that first offseason, some do not.
...coaches and management must decide how long they give each player to develop into the player they envisioned when they drafted them.
THE COACHING STAFF...needs more time.
Last edited by mac; 10/12/16 10:23 AM.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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joe isnt a `shut down corner` anymore. gilbert was supposed to be the guy with haden on #2. and then moving to free safety in a few years.
haden just doesnt have that 4.3 speed. If someone gets past him its over. He should quit the whole press man bull.
We would been better doing the romeo defense last game. Keep everything underneath. Cover 3, cover 4. Gotta make some adjustments...
I`m good with Baker... Playoffs is good enough for me.
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How Long Does Hue Put Up With Giving Up 27 PPG? I think he'll put up with it until he finds a solution or has a heart attack.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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How Long Does Hue Put Up With Giving Up 27 PPG? ...because, you know, the only reason we're giving up that much is that we're totally Ok with it. He's going to put up with it until January when the season ends because it is who we are right now.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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How Long Does Hue Put Up With Giving Up 27 PPG? ...because, you know, the only reason we're giving up that much is that we're totally Ok with it. He's going to put up with it until January when the season ends because it is who we are right now. U guys are putting way to much emphasis on Pts. Per game .... All that really matters is yards per game ... Just ask Swish ... *L* .... The scary part of what u said .. Let's hope he doesn't have to put up with it next year ... Never even thought of that ... Is this who we will be next year??? .. Not sure how much better it is for us to expect to improve in one off season .. This is going to be LONG ASS RE-BUILD ... Think about it ... Even if all the kids we have panned out we'd still have plenty of holes .. And that's just on D ... We have plenty of holes on O also .. EGADS Purp ... Why did u bring that up ... I'd forgotten about that part .. Although next year I think we'll definetly win a game ... I have no doubts abut next years team winning at least one ...
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Some stuff you let slide others you have to answer too.
Nothing could be gained by firing Horton. It would only send the wrong signal at this time.
I am not defending Horton one way or the other. It is immaterial.
That decision is purely Hue Jackson's. None of us are in the locker room or practice facility daily. We don't know what is going on. You watch the Browns play the Patriots and you want to draw conclusions??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Cleveland_Browns_season
Look at the roster. Take note of the new players.
The team is playing their third and fourth quarterback. They have been in 3 of the five games.
The defense is lacking in talent so much it is not even funny. Considering the talent on the field I actually think they are doing ok.
Firing Horton at this point would only relay panic. And now is not the time. They want to get rid of him after the season that is a different story.
This team needs the coaches to coach. They need to work with these young players week by week to help them improve.
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Everyone knows how much I hate the 3-4 and my opinion of Horton. Now with that said, I believe he has done a wonderful job this year. Probably the best job he has ever done in his career.
Shelton has improved big time.
Paea was a cast off playing some solid football.
Taylor was a cast off, playing some solid football.
Kindred and Campbell have played well.
Nassib was looking awesome when he broke his hand.
The D isnt great but I see a lot of growth in this team. The slot and FS have killed us along with a lack of consistent passrush but I see promise in this defense.
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...because, you know, the only reason we're giving up that much is that we're totally Ok with it.
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EGADS Purp ... Why did u bring that up ... I'd forgotten about that part because I'm all about bringing the sunshine and cheer 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Agreed. Failing differently is a kind of progress. Lousy kind, but better than stubbornly failing the same way week after week. Don't throw it all out, but tweak it or leave some of it.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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i feel he is a good coach.
that's the whole point of me defending him and posting the stats of his defenses. if i didn't feel that way about him, i wouldn't be in this thread to begin with.
his defense has shown it can work. we have a lot of first/second year players who:
have never played together
is their first/second year in the NFL
in a new system.
our defense will be fine once these guys get comfortable in the system and build some chemistry.
but the point that everybody is making is that it wont happen if we keep changing coaches and players every year.
So yea, peg me as team Horton. i don't care if im the minority in that or not either. And to piggy back off of this, this very young defense doesn't look lost. Outclassed sometimes? Sure. Occasionally guys out of position? Yeah. But that's more them doing it to themselves versus the scheme (think Kirksey vs. Washington) But for a coach who's philosophy is to give them the whole scheme at the outset and let the players grow in to it, this group looks much better prepared than our defense last year. They look like they believe in the system more than last year too. At this point in time Horton's defense is missing some impact players. Maybe those players have yet to join the roster or maybe they already are but just haven't developed yet.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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i feel he is a good coach.
that's the whole point of me defending him and posting the stats of his defenses. if i didn't feel that way about him, i wouldn't be in this thread to begin with.
his defense has shown it can work. we have a lot of first/second year players who:
have never played together
is their first/second year in the NFL
in a new system.
our defense will be fine once these guys get comfortable in the system and build some chemistry.
but the point that everybody is making is that it wont happen if we keep changing coaches and players every year.
So yea, peg me as team Horton. i don't care if im the minority in that or not either. And to piggy back off of this, this very young defense doesn't look lost. Outclassed sometimes? Sure. Occasionally guys out of position? Yeah. But that's more them doing it to themselves versus the scheme (think Kirksey vs. Washington) But for a coach who's philosophy is to give them the whole scheme at the outset and let the players grow in to it, this group looks much better prepared than our defense last year. They look like they believe in the system more than last year too. At this point in time Horton's defense is missing some impact players. Maybe those players have yet to join the roster or maybe they already are but just haven't developed yet. I tend to agree with Devil and Swish - the defense looks like it is lacking playmakers and talent more so than lacking in scheme and discipline.... in my mind I have seen more talented defenses for the Browns play much more poorly and look like they are lost.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
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i feel he is a good coach.
that's the whole point of me defending him and posting the stats of his defenses. if i didn't feel that way about him, i wouldn't be in this thread to begin with.
his defense has shown it can work. we have a lot of first/second year players who:
have never played together
is their first/second year in the NFL
in a new system.
our defense will be fine once these guys get comfortable in the system and build some chemistry.
but the point that everybody is making is that it wont happen if we keep changing coaches and players every year.
So yea, peg me as team Horton. i don't care if im the minority in that or not either. And to piggy back off of this, this very young defense doesn't look lost. Outclassed sometimes? Sure. Occasionally guys out of position? Yeah. But that's more them doing it to themselves versus the scheme (think Kirksey vs. Washington) But for a coach who's philosophy is to give them the whole scheme at the outset and let the players grow in to it, this group looks much better prepared than our defense last year. They look like they believe in the system more than last year too. At this point in time Horton's defense is missing some impact players. Maybe those players have yet to join the roster or maybe they already are but just haven't developed yet. I tend to agree with Devil and Swish - the defense looks like it is lacking playmakers and talent more so than lacking in scheme and discipline.... in my mind I have seen more talented defenses for the Browns play much more poorly and look like they are lost. This should be the case .. IMO we gave up "athleticism" for hard working, smart kids with ZERO OFF FIELD issues .. So this should be expected with the "type" of player we drafted .. Go read the bio's of pretty much every kid we picked ...
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Spirit - Zona was many moons ago ... He's done NOTHING since .. Major underachiever by all accounts ..
I remember when we hired him ... We all felt so fortunate we got him and were giddy we had him for a year cause most figured he'd get a HC job the following year after being so close that year ...
Well ... Now he's not even mentioned as an elite DC anymore and hasn't had even a sniff for a HC job ..
NO WAY SHOULD HE BE FIRED NOW .... But the guy hasn't been good in his last couple of spots .. I was shocked we hired him .. I completely understand why he's not getting fired (cause he shouldn't be) ... What I don't understand is why he was hired in the first place ..
That's what happens when you're stupid enough to say yes to working in Cleveland. First we hire him, then fire him, then rehire him and now these guys want to fire him again after 5 games becuase he's a horrible coach. How silly. Perhaps he hasn't done anything since Zona because he's been working on some really BAD teams. He should have told Banner and company to shove it and stayed as far away from Cleveland as possible. Went to a GOOD team and made his mark there. So if you want to knock Horton for being stupid and accepting a job in Clev. where carrers come to die.... I'd agree with that. Give the man some TALENT and just a little time to get his sytem in place and THEN judge him.
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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Hey Spirit..........no one was more vocal than you about Big Ben's sexual misconduct accusations. So...........how do you feel about Hue bringing in the scum-bag, Art Briles?
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JC
I liked Horton when he was here the last time and what he did in 2013. There is a huge difference in the players abilities now. I really think that he can turn this defense around in a couple years. I'm actually seeing a better effort against the run this year and the reason the secondary is severely lacking is the lack of experience and talent in the unit as a whole.
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Hey Spirit..........no one was more vocal than you about Big Ben's sexual misconduct accusations. So...........how do you feel about Hue bringing in the scum-bag, Art Briles? Would be better place for this... Hue Brought in Art Briles To Helo With Offensehttps://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.ph...nse#Post1172555
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Legend
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Spirit is conveniently ignoring that thread.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum How Long Does Hue Put Up With
Giving Up 27 PPG?
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