DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Joe Schobert

Can anyone explain to me why Schobert continues to start? Dude has shown zero. I haven't seen him make a single play and haven't noticed him on the field at all.

I checked his stats, thinking maybe I'm just missing something but nope...NINE tackles...in 5 games. And its not like the defence isn't on the field alot.

I'd say maybe he's a strong pass defender buuuuuut tight ends seem to have pretty good days against us so that doesnt wash.

WHY is he starting?

Probably because the coaches have seen something in practice/meetings to show that he can be a future starter. I have no idea if that's true or not, but that's gotta be the case.

Or they just feel that poorly about the other people at his position.

Or they just are doing it because they drafted him fairly high.

Did Schobert start? Cam Johnson played more snaps.

None of our OLBs are doing a whole lot. Some of that is that the back end is suspect, so they don't get coverage sacks. Some is they aren't particularly refined as pass rushers. Some is they aren't in on passing downs all the time as we go to nickel looks.

I think the OLBs end up on RBs in pass coverage more than TEs if they were even in man coverage at all. I remember the ILBs trying to guard the TEs. I don't recall seeing an OLB get burnt in coverage, but then I wasn't paying the closest attention.

I wouldn't mind seeing him try to cover TE's more. I think he ends up at ILB and a core special teamer once we have a better OLB (Myles Garrett?).

Our D is a bunch of young guys learning a complicated system. They should get better as they acclimatize.

...I guess at least you haven't seen him looking terrible from what you wrote.

the guy i'm more disappointed in is Ogbah. He was my least favorite draft pick (especially given where he was drafted) ... and he hasn't done much yet

Joe I think has played three games and came out with 9 tackles and 2 asst.

I honestly cannot pick a name out of the air that should be ahead of him - so, maybe he's starting simply because he's "the best of what's left"?

According to NFL.com Schobert has only started 1 game (Baltimore) and he has 9 tackles and 1 pass defensed. Also Pro-football-refrence.com shows that the most he has played was last week when he was in for 37 plays which was only 46% of the total defensive plays ran. In all the other games he played even less.

I've watched every game thus far and the only game he didn;t start was game one when Orchard started.

Lots of valid points made here although I think both Lemonier and Johnson have looked better than Schobert and actually Ogbah as well.

What is the situation about Ogbah? What are you seeing or don't see as far as where he is at?
I was surprised to see him drafted where we did, but he remains a puzzle as to why we are so high on him.

Our OLB and ILB play just strikes me as a fail overall. I would expect some flash here and there from the group, or at least one individual, but hasn't happened yet.

Answer on Ogbah is not alot. Only small bright point is that he seems to have decent situational awareness in sniffing out screen and swing passes and understanding when to get the hands up to bat down passes. Pass rushing element seems to be null and void despite his measureables being off the chart. Think we may have a "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" scenario. He never seems to disrupt the pocket.

I disagree on on our ILBs though. Demario Davis has been a pleasant surprise and Kirksey has continued to play decently, though he seems to struggle with pass coverage a bit. I actually think Demario Davis will be a centrepiece to our front seven for a few years.

Ogbah has done next to nothing that I've seen warranting a top 32 pick in the NFL ... IIRC he's knocked down a few passes and made a few nice plays, but nothing special

Here's what I had to say about Ogbah during the lead up to the draft:



He still doesn't seem to bend well. He'd probably be more effective as a wide 9 end.

He looked a lot more mobile at the combine than he did on game tape, so maybe he can improve there. He does need to develop his pass rushing repertoire. He's raw and has upside, but who knows if we'll be able to develop him.

I'm not sure who a great OLB/pass rushing coach would be, but I haven't been impressed with Slowik so far. I guess he might be doing an okay job with awareness/assignments, but as far as getting to the QB I've been underwhelmed.

I don't think Ogbah is really a plays like Jane type. He might be thinking too much now. I'm pretty sure his assignments are a lot more complicated than they were at Okie State.

I kind of wish we'd been able to ease him in as more of a situational pass rusher.

People love draft picks, but unfortunately, most of the draft picks are not impact players.

Maybe next year, the analytics guys will trade both first round picks for future draft considerations in 2025.

OK, so this thread got me thinking about how well our young OLBs were doing and here is a game by game breakdown.

Philly - 77 defensive plays - we started out with a nickle defense and Ogbah was the lone starter.

Ogbah - 56 plays - 1 tackle
Orchard - 26 plays - no stats
Schobert - 29 plays - 1 tackle
Lemonier - no action

Baltimore - 75 defensive plays - Ogbah and Schobert started.

Ogbah - 60 plays - 1 tackle/1 assist
Orchard - 24 plays - 1 tackle/2 assists
Schobert - 29 plays - 1 tackle
Lemonier - 14 plays - 1 tackle

Miami - 67 defensive plays - Ogbah and Orchard started.

Ogbah - 57 plays - 3 tackles
Orchard - 38 plays - 1 tackle
Schobert - 14 plays - no stats
Lemonier - 16 plays - 3 tackles/1 sack/1 forced fumble/ 1 fumble recovered.

Washington - 62 defensive plays - Ogbah and Lemonier started.

Ogbah - 38 plays - 3 tackles/4 assists
Schobert - 25 plays - 1 tackle/3 assists
Lemonier - 33 plays - 3 tackles
Johnson - 17 plays - 3 tackles/1 assist/2 sacks/1 forced fumble

New England - 80 defensive plays - again we started with a nickle defense and Ogbah was the lone starter.

Ogbah - 44 plays - 1 tackle
Schobert - 37 plays - 2 tackles
Lemonier - 22 plays - no stats
Johnson - 43 plays - 2 tackles/1 assist

Totals - 361 defensive plays.

Ogbah - 5 starts / 5 games - 255 plays - 9 tackles/5 assists
Orchard - 1 start / 3 games - 88 plays - 2 tackles/2 assists
Schobert - 1 start / 5 games - 134 plays - 5 tackles/3 assists
Lemonier - 1 start / 4 games - 85 plays - 7 tackles/1 sack/1 forced fumble/1 fumble recovery
Johnson - 0 starts / 2 games - 60 plays - 5 tackles/2 assists/2 sacks/1 forced fumble

Looks like Johnson has been our best player so far.

He is the guy who has certainly flashed the most when watching on TV.

Is he the guy we got from Arizona's practice squad?

I think the FO has done a good job of finding these types of players.

Yeah, I believe he was in camp with us and after he was cut he was picked up by Arizona and then we signed him off their Practice Squad when Orchard went down.

I think Davis has been horrid. he makes one really good play and makes mistakes that turn what should be a stop for loss into big gains. I dont know if there is a worse inside backer starting in this league.

Agreed...another in a long line of Browns ILBs who simply aren't/weren't good.

FWIW, Cam Johnson was originally signed by us last year towards the end of the season and was brought back this year.

Thanks for the response. My ILB comment was mostly based on coverage. I will look for Ogbah more. Just part of the furniture out there; I haven't noticed much either way.

Hope he has some more upside.

Nice work on the stats compilation. I think its a good basis to take a statistical view.
However; raw stats like those leave out to key measures for pass rushers: pressures and QB hits.

For my money the best OLB/speed edge rusher right now is Tyrone Holmes, I don't know where he went be he flashed a burst and lean that the others lack.

Re: Ogbah

I don't think there is anything wrong with Ogbah, sure everyone wants to see sack numbers. But, sacks are a group effort. (Look at Ogbah compared to the edge rushers from last draft class)

Ogbah is imo the only consistent pass rush threat there is little interior push/pressure from the DL and Ogbah is often faces the other teams best pass protector.
Also, Ogbah doesn't have the luxury of playing a limited number of snaps. He logs heavy minutes.

I don't think its by accident that the edge rushers playing opposite him get better production numbers.

I bet Ogbah's sacks will come up when/if Nassib can get back to playing like he was pre-injury and the other edge rushers keep bringing heat (Holmes, Lemonier, CJ)

Re: Schobert

I think Schobert is okay at OLB. I would rather seem him replace DD at SILB though.
If I had to choose between Schobert or Holmes at edge I would go with Holmes.

But, I like Schobert bend's and fluidity, i would like to see him play more in pure pass rush situations to have a better feel for him as an edge rusher.

boy, I'm not sure Schobert has the ability to play ILB at this level ... what do I know though

It does at this point look like we just drafted a bunch of "guys"....I pointed that out on receivers in anothere thread..

I was at last weeks game....Joe does look athletic, Ogbauh not so much.


I will keep watching, but my expectations are diminishing the more I watch.

Why?

Lol, I don't understand how/why people are quick to reach conclusions about a player or a draft class when they're not even making in depth analysis of what's happening on the field.

I believe that he was on our Practice Squad for most, if not all, of last year.

Respectfully Mourg, what are you smokin?

I'd say Davis plus Shelton's improved play are the two reasons that we're actually able to play the run at all this year. Last year, I could have run for 100 yards against our D. This year, we're head and shoulders better.

I think we got a steal picking up Davis....dude has a nose for the ball.

Too bad he couldn't cover a tight end if his life depended on it.

I can only stream our games where i am at. my computer is old and buffers a lot, so it's hard for me to watch our games until they are put on youtube.

But from what I have seen, I thought he was doing well? seen a few really good stops from him.

I'm shocked that you even have the internet in Hesperia.

(California joke.)

lol yea but it is still dial up modem...jk

It's not really quick. It also isn't a final evaluation.

It is simply my impression at this point. I go to games, I watch games, and I don't see these guys making plays.

"Guys" show up, get involved to some degree, and can get better as time goes on. Impact players start flashing the talent pretty much from the beginning.

We really haven't seen Coleman to this point. Let's hope he starts to flash because if not, we just drafted a bunch of receivers to gain very little value.

There are very few ILB's in the league that can.The one's that can,and play the run well,are referred to as all-pro's.

From what I could find here is the stats for QB hurries:

Ogbah - 4
Paea - 4
Meder - 3
J. Taylor - 3
Schobert - 2
Cooper - 2

Also Ogbah has 2 passes defensed and Schobert has 1

We currently rank 9th in the league in tackles with 336 but 27th in sacks with 7 and 29th in forced fumbles with 2. So it looks like our defense is among the league leaders in the amount of plays made but near the bottom in impact plays.

Paea has been a pleasant surprise IMO. I hope he can be an answer along the DL

The number of tackles indicates how long the other team's offense is on the field. We don't do well possessing the ball - the D does not do a good job stopping the other guys from converting 1st downs, and we do a poor job converting 1st downs on offense.

It's like in years past when some get all excited over our final pass defense stats, the low number of yards given up compared to the rest of the league. When a team is ahead, they don't throw as much. It was not so much our talent on D as to the fact we spent so much time behind in games.

when's the last time we DID do well possessing the ball? Maybe DA/Jamal Lewis' team

I think he already flashed...over a 100 rec. yds and 2 tds in his second game in the pros. a catch for around 50 yds in each of his two games...

You say the Browns drafted a bunch of guys yet if you were to compare the picks with the rest of the draft class right now, I think you get a different picture of their level of production.

Corey Coleman despite being injured is still top 10 in rookie receptions, 5th in yards, tied for 1st in TDs and tops in yards per catch at 24.7

Ricardo Louis is also top 10 in receptions and yards for rookies.

Derrick Kindred is 2nd in tackles

etc...etc...etc...

How are Wentz and Zeke doing?

Crow's been doing pretty well at RB. How much impact would Zeke be giving us over Crow?

Wentz hasn't been operating in our offense. With our injury luck, his hairline fractured rib would have somehow resulted in him ending up on IR.

I like/liked Wentz, but I'm not sure if Hue would have him operating as well as he is in Philly. I've been underwhelmed with Hue as a playcaller a little bit. Hopefully we'll get things honed in with more time. This is probably the youngest team he's ever dealt with, and that does present a little bit different challenge. I feel like the passes to Drango and trick plays could have waited till the basics were down better.