DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Racism in America. A basic supposition.

Suppose the following

Today twins are born in a hospital in America, One child is white, One child is black. It can happen.

Both children face the same loving parents, The same upbringing.

I believe the black child will, at the very least, have the same opportunity as the white child for a thriving, happy life.

I don’t see racism here.

Racism is triggered by 1 of two things. a Survival Mechanism or as a learned behavior.

Every person on this planet is racists to a certain degree by our instincts to band together with people and things we find to be similar and comforting. For most of us being the only one of our ethnicity in a room full of a different ethnicity will feel uncomfortable. Whether your the only black person there, the only white person there, hispanic, asian etc. That tends to fade away though when you are in a very diverse group of people. Of course, if all you ever see is stereotypical behavior from an ethnic group then you will become racist based on experience much faster and more emphatically. You can't stop it anymore than you can breathing.

Then of course you have the learned behavior from family and community. These take a LONG time to change and ONLY after its been proven to be realistic. For instance, white boy walking through the hood at night KNOWS he is asking for trouble. It's not racists because its factual. Just like a poorly dressed black boy walking through suburbs will be thought of a thug scouting out the area and people will be wary of him. just like a yankee from the north will still face hardships when moving to the south in certain areas. IF you have experienced these things then being called a racist wont matter to you because your life experience has shown them to be TRUE. No amount of discussion is going to change the reality of the world you have experienced first hand.

That doesn't mean your right but people will always follow what they learn from experience over what you tell them is the proper way to feel.

I just read your discourse Razor.

Very persuasive argument. Well thought-out. I like it.

Absolutely. And I have seen those situations in the schools play out exactly as you describe.

However, this does not reflect the reality of our society. Way to many minority children are raised in low socioeconomic status, with one parent who is struggling, for a variety of reasons, to make ends meet.

Reasons may or may not be of their own making.

But, I see your point and agree.

Much more to the argument, and CJRae touched on it with socioeconomics.

Then again, we have African American doctors not allowed to practice on airplanes.

I think it goes further than socioeconomics.

Rock, it is a dangerous supposition to continue to make statements about this plane incident without all of the facts. It is not only dangerous, but fuels the fires that create the necessity for this thread and widens the divide that exists in our country.

Simply put, we do not have all the facts.

If she could not produce her license, it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with protocol.

It's all about implicit bias, CJ. Look at what Lurker posted the other day. Swish just posted the detailed account from the physician, and she did have her hospital ID. Apparently that wasn't enough to the Delta flight crew.

Implicit bias most likely explains the skewed stop and frisk policies, and the ridiculous amount of times minorities get pulled over in comparison to Caucasians.

It's funny to me how people who have never experienced racism seem to be such experts about it.

I will give you that there is racial bias in this country.

However, every thing that occurs that doesn't set well with some cannot always be racial bias. I mean, c'mon man.

For centuries, we criticized American presidents and gave opinions. During that time, many blacks criticized white presidents. Were there racial chants? We get our first black president and every thing that is said against him is a racial bias or said by a racist. Not! Sorry, don't buy the argument that every issue is racial.

Are many issues of a racial slant, yes. But not every single time. That argument just does not hold water.

Never is a pretty definitive word. And you know that about the so called experts how?

Interesting to me that when someone entertains the dialogue that everyone says is necessary, you get comments like Pits. Interesting and counterproductive.

Racism would eventually crop up.

I don't actually see anything wrong with Pits comment.

There is value there.

Really, saying that people have never experienced racism. How would he know what the experience of others has been? Tell me how he knows what my experience or anyone elses has been? His comment is simply counterproductive.

And furthermore, who ever claims to be an "expert"? Just simply attempting to have productive dialogue and understanding. Apologize if anyone sees it any other way.

Human nature dictates that it will always exist. We can't deny that.

Want to know the way to remove the implicit bias in a person? Have them work and serve those who are very much unlike themselves. This person must remove any prejudged notions.

Asking someone to step out of their comfort zone is a huge undertaking. Not many are courageous enough to do that.

Well, that would have to work both ways and then it would be considered slavery. Racism!

Still waiting for tjose who assume that others have never experienced racism to tell me how they know that about people they have never, ever met.

That in itself is a very dangerous assumption that furthers the issue of race in this country. Making broad based assumptions about others is neither productive or effective progress toward a solution.

This is counterproductive to the discussion.

It's why I no longer participate in these conversations...
-there's nothing for me to teach them.

Sadly I agree with you. I have learned a great deal from your posts. You deliver a very level headed and well informed message from a person who has lived it. I thank you for your efforts.

To me, that is a very sad and unfortunate comment. There are things to be taught on both sides and things to be learned on both sides.

To say that an individual who you have never met has never experienced racism as Pit did is absolutely ridiculous. To think that there is only one side who can teach something here appears equally ridiculous.

I have most definitely experienced racism in my lifetime. But, because I am a proud white woman, it would never matter to many of you.

deleted

I don't want to get into this again

Again, waiting for someone to tell me how they know if a person ever experienced racism or not. This statement in itself is racist.

Really, Tribe plays at 4 concentrate on that ,, BROOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

j/c

Racism exists. Lots of things that are called racism actually aren't.

I've not been allowed in establishments due to my race, been told "No gaijin" in angry voices with emphatic gestures, and been threatened by Japanese biker gangs for being "Caucasian".

Having a hospital ID does not make someone a doctor. The cafeteria workers have hospital IDs. I'm not trying to imply that the doctor on the plane looked like a cafeteria worker, I just know a cafeteria worker who has a hospital ID. If the person isn't in scrubs/ a lab coat with a stethoscope around his/her neck I normally don't think doctor as his or her probable profession.

In our age of rampant litigation, not checking someone claiming to be a doctor could be grounds for a negligence case against the airline.

For some reason, people who see themselves as victims of racism think they are incapable of also being perpetrators of racism. This isn't the case. "People who have never experienced racism can't understand..." can in fact be a racist statement when it is implied that a "white" person can't/hasn't experienced racism. While it isn't the intent to be racist, the statement is making an assumption about someone based on skin color. "Racism" is usually not intended, but prejudice is taking place.

Everyone can do better.

Finally, grimm gets it.

Everyone can do better! Amen.

In a race relations thread you post a meme of a black guy known for bleaching his skin white...

I get the feeling your a guy who just wants to watch the world burn lol

At it's core, racism is just the inherent fear of difference and change. I think it may even be an extension of the species survival mechanism. We no longer have to fear being eaten at every second, so we replace that with any other perceived fear we can imagine. Skin color is just an easy target.

However, even if some day we all look alike, there will still be differences like: The wide nose clan, the toothless clan, the mullet clan or the 80's mustache clan... We will always be different, so the fear will always persist. All we can do is strive to be better than our fears and that means that first we have to acknowledge them.

Sadly, with no offense to the posters or the OP, threads like this prove that we are even afraid to acknowledge our most basic weaknesses, again due to fear of difference and change.

So no matter how hard you try to prove racism doesn't exist, the only thing you are really proving is your ignorance of reality.

Exactly. To for, one minute, claim racism is only one sided is to cheat society of progressive direction toward a better place. To think that any one person has never been or could never be the victim of racism is not forward thinking.

He bleached his skin white due to a disease called vitiligo. Vitiligo causes patches of pigment to turn white with zero pigmentation. it starts off as small spots then it has a mind of its own. He probably was to vain to take the embarrassment of the disease.

I just thought that was the perfect meme to post because my perspectives are pretty much worthless and everyone has better ideas then me, so I rather sit back and read lol

Sorry you feel that way. You have much to offer.

He's not the only one to feel that way.

The problem as I see it when it comes to these kinds of topics, even in a broader sense as mentioned in the "Divergent" thread... everyone here speaks and writes English...yet we have an extremely difficult time agreeing on what words mean.

Take the word racism for example. Everyone can could copy and paste Webster's definition but nearly everyone here would have differing ideas as to what "racism" looks like in practice. There was a thread a long time ago debating whether or not minorities could be racist. One would think there would be a universally accepted concept of such a thing but there isn't.

When we can't agree on something like what that means, there's really no hope that we can than agree on a premise on which to start the conversation.

j/c:

I think that just about everyone who has commented on this thread lacks objectivity and sees things from primarily one side.

Finally! Someone says exactly what's on my mind. Thank you Devil Dawg.

My issue is this, people argue, dismiss and act like they know more then the actual people who are going through it. I get it that people like to argue just to argue but its annoying to the person who are in the actual situation. I think Clem made the best point that really can't be argued, he said Lurker, Clem and Swish have all had very very similar experiences regarding race, even though we never met each other, and we all live hundreds of miles a way from each other, Why is that? (Rhetorical question)

Football Example, Lets say I was a head coach for Division III school, people would argue with me and tell me they know more about football than me even though I am actually running a football program. Its obvious the coach is in expert in the situation and his words are very important regarding football.

my 2cents...

I can't argue with that

Please don't shut out others who may be more like you than you realize.

If this issue could be solved with only like people gathering and sharing their experiences, it would have been long resolved. The dialogue must come from everyone, regardless of race, ethnicity, religious affiliation etc..

I truly do not believe that some of you are suggesting that all you really want to do is commiserate together and share your experiences only with others who have very similar experiences. That alone will not solve this issue or put us on a path to resolution.

If racism is the issue, then most of us have experienced it on some level.

If the concern is specific to racial profiling, that may be a topic for a different thread.

But, at any rate, communication is key while remembering to refrain from judging others you know nothing about. Everyone has valuable input.

i had a super long post/ reply to a lot of comments here.. but its not even worth it.

this is dawgtalkers.net. no one cares.