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Welp, the final debate is done and over with. 19 days until Election Day.
Will there be another bombshell leak on Clinton? Will Trump double down on the election being rigged? Will there be more Republicans disavowing themselves from Trump's campaign? Will Clinton finally brush her teeth before getting on stage?
Find out on the next episode of Dragonball Z!!!!
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I thought you might be happy to know that I made up my mind about voting. You know I think both candidates suck, and we are screwed either way. However do to Trumps comments and ideals on abortion I will be voting for Trump on the 18th
Go ahead and grab your cat of nine tails and start on me now, cause my mind can not be changed.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I already knew you was voting for trump.
A lot of you guys put on a nice front. But come crunch time, 99% of you will choose either or.
You don't have to lie to kick it bro. We're still boys.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I thought you might be happy to know that I made up my mind about voting. You know I think both candidates suck, and we are screwed either way. However do to Trumps comments and ideals on abortion I will be voting for Trump on the 18th
Go ahead and grab your cat of nine tails and start on me now, cause my mind can not be changed. One thing I noticed on Facebook: in the month or so leading up to October 19th, I noticed several of my female friends had some really bad things to say about Trump. This is true even among a few women who I was under the impression were conservative types. It was a pretty clear trend, among those who were outspoken enough to put their views on Facebook, men supported Trump and women were against Trump. It has been quite a while since I have seen a post that could fairly be categorized as pro-Clinton. Last night, Trump received some very nice posts and very real support from several women. A couple specifically mentioned partial-birth abortion. That's one thought I kind of had in the back of my mind while watching the debate and reading through the last thread. Being pro-life does restrict women's rights, but the reality is that about half of women are pro-life and those who are staunchly pro-choice were mostly not going to vote for Trump anyway (speculation there but I believe it's accurate.) None of the above is meant to share any of my beliefs, by the way. It's just some rambling and meant to share an interesting (or not) observation.
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My scorecard for the three presidential debates:
Round 1: 10-9 Clinton
Round 2: 10-8 Trump
Round 3: 10-9 Trump
29-27 Trump (I still think Clinton will win the election, for what it's worth.)
I won't give the VP debate a score because we rarely talk about the veeps and historically that debate doesn't matter. Basically, Tim Kaine sacrificed himself to make Trump look bad, while Mike Pence shook his head in disbelief.
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My scorecard for the three presidential debates:
Round 1: 10-9 Clinton
Round 2: 10-8 Trump
Round 3: 10-9 Trump
29-27 Trump (I still think Clinton will win the election, for what it's worth.)
I won't give the VP debate a score because we rarely talk about the veeps and historically that debate doesn't matter. Basically, Tim Kaine sacrificed himself to make Trump look bad, while Mike Pence shook his head in disbelief. How do you have Trump winning debate 2 & 3? He came across as a sorry, sad sack stalker in debate 2 and last night it started civil but within 30 minutes he was angry, insulting and disrespectful. "Bad Hombre", "Nasty Woman"? Refusing to accept potential loss, calling out American military intelligence as "stupid". Clinton showed her fight and steely spine when she was clearly angry about Trump questioning Military Intelligence over Russian cyber hacks to influence the election. She went at him hard and that was possibly the most forceful I have seen her. Honestly, as a parent I honestly do not understand how anybody can think Trump is a role model for our kids. Is this really what we want our kids to look at and learn from? In adversity to take no responsibility for your own actions so you complain that everybody is against you, to insult and bully, to boast about sexual assault, to question the American morals this country was built upon, to be an egotist, to get into social media wars....he is beyond unprofessional. He questions the American democracy by refusing to accept the potential outcome, he questions those with significantly more intelligence and understanding and he goes on and on about manufacturing being sent abroad yet, he has his clothing line made in various countries and he admits he buys foreign steel. By saying "make it so I can't" isn't an answer it just shows his lack of morals and how spineless he is. If he TRULY felt manufacturing should be here in America he would make a moral decision to buy US steel, employ citizens and have his goods made in the USA. Going back to the children in our country... all parents and their teachers want them to see positive adult role models ...the President should be one. Trump is not.
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I don't think any minds were changed last night.
Clinton painted Trump as not ready.
Trump painted Clinton a monster on partial birth abortion.
Both made good points.
I wonder if that 4 minute remark about the nukes was inside baseball that shouldn't have come out?
She was clearly more eloquent in her delivery but she lies so much she's only delivering fantasy. de plane, de plane. She was just using talking points and that helped her practiced eloquence. If you can't fly you shouldn't have a gun is ridiculous since there is no vetting on that no fly list. To tie a right provided us in the constitution to a list made up by a terrorist screening center is beyond crazy.
Trumps bad hombres and bigly remarks were laughable.
I think Chris Wallace was the winner. He was the only professional there last night.
#GMSTRONG
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I would expect Donald Trump the business man to do what is right for his business and his family. Why should he sabotage his own businesses in order to make a political point? That is essentially what it would come down to-- if he made the decision to use exclusively highly-paid American workers while his competitors used cheap overseas labor, to buy expensive American materials while his competitors bought cheap Chinese steal, etc.... maybe we'd be talking about bankrupt Donald Trump instead of a few out of the many companies he's ran that went bankrupt.
Instead we debate how many billions of dollars Trump is worth. Good for him. It's about time we get a politician in there who actually accomplished things in the real world and who knows how to fix things for Americans and yes I do think he is genuine about that. Old age has a way of making people more charitable.
As far as role models, I don't think Trump or Clinton, and arguably not even Gary Johnson are particularly good role models for our kids. The best person for that would be Stein and overall probably would have been Bernie who was not given a fair shot in this election. We all have to choose what is important to us in the candidates, both of the main candidates carry a lot of baggage but at the end of the day I agree with Trump a lot more on policy. I also like how the man doesn't back down, sometimes he takes that too far but what can you do.
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I am proud to say that both my kids (ages 16 & 18) think he is incredibly disrespectful and insulting. They compare him to a candidate on a Reality Show that just shames, criticizes and insults their competitors. Remember he also insulted the Pope via Twitter wars. Now, I am not religious but, you simply don't insult the pope! The President is supposed to be above all of that.
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I already knew you was voting for trump.
A lot of you guys put on a nice front. But come crunch time, 99% of you will choose either or.
You don't have to lie to kick it bro. We're still boys. Well then you knew something neither me or my own wife knew Swish. I was still 50/50 for Trump or for writing my own damn name on the ballet. BTW Just like yourself I don't lie. Everybody knows I am anything but PC and I speak my mind even if not a single person agree's with me. Just like you. I think thats why we get along so well. We can disagree all day long just like I do with my life long friends without taking it personal. We just take it as disagreeing 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Going back to the children in our country... all parents and their teachers want them to see positive adult role models ...the President should be one. Trump is not.  Please don't tell me that you think Hillary is
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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[quote] I will be voting for Trump on the 18th[/quot] Ok,, you convinced me, I'll vote for Trump also on the 18th.
Last edited by Damanshot; 10/20/16 09:25 AM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I am proud to say that both my kids (ages 16 & 18) think he is incredibly disrespectful and insulting. They compare him to a candidate on a Reality Show that just shames, criticizes and insults their competitors. Remember he also insulted the Pope via Twitter wars. Now, I am not religious but, you simply don't insult the pope! The President is supposed to be above all of that.
I don't know what happened between Trump and the Pope. However, I've noticed a distinct pattern in these things. A person who would generally be considered above criticism (e.g. the Pope, Mr. Khan, Miss Universe, etc.) insults Trump in some nasty way. Trump responds with an equivalent insult. People then blame Trump... why? My view is that if somebody insults you, you have the right to insult back in an appropriate manner. Just sitting there and 'taking it' is not really a desirable character trait and I don't really think that is something we should teach our kids, if you want to go down that road. As a general rule it is better to respond in kind, or in some cases just dismissively ignore the insult out of hand. depends on the situation. Call it a difference of opinion.
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It would have been funny if after Trump said he respects women Clinton would have replied: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. 
The difference between Jesus and religion
Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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I really didn't learn anything new about the candidates, they appeared to be exactly as I already thought them to be.
Trump: Complete and Utter lunatic. The man has no sole. He lies about his lies.
Clinton; Complete liar. Can't tell the truth if her life depends on it.
In the end, They will both do or say whatever they think will win them the election.
I fully expect Clinton to win this election and I suspect it will be a landslide victory. But I couldn't be less thrilled about that prospect.
JMO....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I am proud to say that both my kids (ages 16 & 18) think he is incredibly disrespectful and insulting. They compare him to a candidate on a Reality Show that just shames, criticizes and insults their competitors. Remember he also insulted the Pope via Twitter wars. Now, I am not religious but, you simply don't insult the pope! The President is supposed to be above all of that.
Here are some quotes from former Presidents for you. The President of the United States: Leader of the free world, wielder of executive power, sassmaster. At least in some cases. Franklin Pierce was a sourpuss. “[His ideas of popular sovereignty are] as thin as the homeopathic soup that was made by boiling the shadow of a pigeon that had starved to death.”–Abraham Lincoln, on his political rival Se “Jerry Ford is so dumb that he can’t fart and chew gum at the same time.”–Lyndon B. Johnson “A little emasculated mass of inanity.”–Noted manly man Theodore Roosevelt about author Henry James. “He has a bungalow mind.”–Woodrow Wilson insulting (… I guess? Maybe Wilson really liked bungalows.) his successor Warren G. Harding. “McKinley has a chocolate eclair backbone.”–Theodore Roosevelt on his predecessor William McKinley. Jerry Ford is a nice guy, but he played too much football with his helmet off.”–Lyndon B Johnson on Gerald Ford. If you give me a week, I might think of one. I don’t remember.”–Dwight D. Eisenhower, when asked whether, while Richard Nixon was his his Vice President, he had any “major idea[s]” that he contributed to Eisenhower’s presidency. “That man has offered me unsolicited advice for six years, all of it bad.”–Calvin Coolidge on Herbert Hoover. “I may not know much, but I know chicken [censored] from chicken salad.”–Lyndon B. Johnson, after listening to a campaign speech by Richard Nixon. “Ford’s economics are the worst thing that’s happened to this country since pantyrose ruined finger-[censored].”–Insult powerhouse Lyndon B. Johnson on Gerald R. Ford.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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That's a pretty funny list.
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Oh I could bring up a lot more 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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[quote=Damanshot] I will be voting for Trump on the 18th[/quot] Ok,, you convinced me, I'll vote for Trump also on the 18th.   And people don't understand why Trump is concerned about rigged elections  lol
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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~ Legend
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to be fair, Trump insulted Miss Universe after she gained weight.
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so, after dwelling on it and such, here's my thoughts on the debate:
First off, shout out to Chris wallace. the questions asked were nothing short of perfect. he fact checked both of them on the spot, and allowed them to fact check each other.
some people(social media in general) were complaining about him not having control of the debates, but just like the the other two debates: these are two alpha's on stage. of course they are gonna try and talk over each other and the Mod.
What made chris wallace the best mod wasn't that; it was the initial questions and meaningful follow up questions after that. simply spot on. perfect guy for the final debate.
on to the candidates:
i think the first 10-20 minutes was good for both candidates. the supreme court question followed by the abortion question allowed both candidates to appeal to their bases. i think Clinton's response on the supreme court judges and abortion rights were spot on.
Trump's appeal to the second amendment and being anti-abortion was played very well, and he nailed it as far as the conservative base goes.
it was a really good job by both of them.
but after that...well....Clinton pulled away. in my opinion, of course.
Not accepting the election results was a massive pie in the face for Trump. you just can't do that.
I think there were times where he had a chance to absolutely nail clinton to the wall, but couldn't seize that opportunity. His biggest chance was the leaks on her speeches to wall street.
I literally face palmed when she opened her mouth with that lame ass excuse about "energy". i think everybody can agree her response was about as terrible as the abe lincoln excuse in the second debate. there's no possible way she thought that was gonna fly with anybody.
But trump couldn't nail her to the wall on that. and that was the problem: Clinton pulled the trigger over and over again.
From him having undocumented workers, to having his businesses overseas.
and instead of countering, he just rolled with it. i mean "you shouldn't let me do it" is not an acceptable counter or thing to say, period. He just blatantly admitted that he's part of the problem.
Also, his biggest problem is that he once again took the bait. he can't help himself. When trump goes YOLO in the debates, it's absolutely cringe-worthy. The guy's ego doesn't allow him to let shots roll off his shoulders. he is really sensitive.
and then what made it worse was his "she's such a nasty woman". and clinton had the perfect response to that: no response or reaction.
and that, ultimately, is one of the many reasons why he's probably gonna get crushed in this election. He really doesn't have the temperament to be president. He showed that to the american people 3 debates in a row now.
and then, the last question of the night was really the biggest difference of them all: Chris wallace asking them for a closing speech on why American people should vote for them.
since it was unscripted, no prepared speech, that right there showed me why i'm completely comfortable with voting for her.
regardless of what you think of Hillary, that last response was a message of unity and hope and working together. She didn't say anything negative about Trump. it was all about what she wants to try and do for America.
Trump spent the entire two minutes trashing her, and fear mongering.
Clinton won that debate last night. Was anybody's minds truly changed on who to vote for? No.
However, Clinton is gonna continue on her pace of making this a lopsided victory.
Trump once again alienated political leaders with his rigged election and not accepting the results rhetoric.
Haus, not to pick on you bro, but i've been telling you this for months now. nobody is making Trump say these things. especially the "nasty woman" comments.
The media didn't make him say it. clinton didn't make him say it. his campaign didn't make him say it.
He said it all on his own. he's been saying all kinds of things all on his own.
so that "master persuader" blog that you're always posting.
you're right. Trump is a master persuader. he's persuading the American people to not touch this guy with a ten foot pole come election day.
if that's what his intentions were, then he's doing a marvelous job at it.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I am so happy Clinton has taken a huge lead... I'm staying home on November 8th. Let the chips fall where they may.
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[quote=Damanshot] I will be voting for Trump on the 18th[/quot] Ok,, you convinced me, I'll vote for Trump also on the 18th. And people don't understand why Trump is concerned about rigged elections lol LOL Almost everyone is laughing at him for this angle.. He's an idiot
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I agree a little with Haus. I think the third debate was a tie. However, Trump needed to whoop her last night and didn't. If the election was today Hillary Clinton is your next President of the United States.
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I agree a little with Haus. I think the third debate was a tie. However, Trump needed to whoop her last night and didn't. If the election was today Hillary Clinton is your next President of the United States. I came to grips with this a long time ago. Trump just has too much to overcome, from demographics, to the media, to the establishment, and yes even some of his own reckless comments. It's actually pretty amazing that the race is still alive-- I do think the race is still alive. I'd gladly bet on Trump at 10:1 odds (damned by faint praise I suppose.)
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All I can say is that I applaud Mr. Wallace for his fair but tough stance towards both candidates. I don't believe either candidate actually gained or lost any votes from this debate.
I do agree with Clem that Trump is no more than a carnival barker that is too unfit and uninformed to be president. I also believe Hillary has bad judgement and is not trustworthy to be president.
I also felt that in the end GM would vote for Trump. My reasoning is that in the end, he could not support a pro choice candidate due to his strong stance on abortion. Due to Trump being who he is, I still thought he would have a tough time supporting Trump. In the end I feel I was correct on both counts. I know GM pretty well, I respect his beliefs and I fully believe that he just came to his final conclusion. I can honestly say that GM is a very honest, caring and giving person. I know this was hard for him.
As for myself? I can not in all good conscience support either candidate. Neither are worthy of being the leader of the free world. I fear for my fellow Americans and my family going forward and pray for our nation.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I will say this again Haus. Trump is a man who keeps stabbing himself in the neck and then keeps blaming everyone else because he's bleeding. If he could have just shut up about all of this "rigged nonsense" while the e-mails were coming out, things may have turned around. But he just can't help himself.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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he's really tanking this election "bigly"
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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he's really tanking this election "bigly" I don't think that. Pit brings up some good points. I don't know. I can't really disagree with what he wrote. Trump is making some mistakes that a refined politician just simply wouldn't make.
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i dunno.
i mean, since we like to believe every hit piece we see around this board, i'm starting to believe this was all a big ass con just so he can get a TV network started.
just one big, massive. kick starter. i wouldn't put it past him, and if that was indeed his intent...well, however much of a waste of time he just pulled on the american people, it's an ingenious way of going about things.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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he's really tanking this election "bigly" I don't think that. Pit brings up some good points. I don't know. I can't really disagree with what he wrote. Trump is making some mistakes that a refined politician just simply wouldn't make. If Trump wasn't such a narcissist he might have listened to someone who knew the political ropes a bit better instead of winging it all the time.
#GMSTRONG
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see my post on page 13 of the recently-closed thread. 
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Trump doubled down on the whole rigged thing. It's almost like he is actively trying to lose at this point.
It's over and has been over for awhile, but I am excited to watch conclusion of Trump's meltdown over the next few weeks.
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i dont see anything link it
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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i dont see anything link it I think it is worth posting again: From Clemdawg: And if that supposition turns out to be true, he should be the most universally reviled man in the history of American politics...
...because he stole 18 months of America's time and resources, hijacking and defrauding the entire American Political Process to further his own personal and financial goals. All the way up to a national election for POTUS.
But the universal hatred will never happen- at least for another 20 years or so.
Why?
Because the very people who sincerely wanted him to become POTUS are too stupid to see a 'long-game con' when it's being worked on them... and will be the first people in America to abandon FOX network and the Rush Limbaughs to get their daily dose of the next snake oil he's selling.
He's manipulated a 6-year 'hostile takeover' of the Right-Wing 'Infotainment' Market... and he's done it right in front of America's collective nose. It really is audacious and brilliant. Hat off to him. The Founding Fathers are spinning in their graves, but PT Barnum is saying, "DAMN, son.... you are the new king!"
Trump WANTS to lose this election. It was apparent in his closing statement. When given a chance to appeal to mainstream America, he didn't even TRY to bring in America's undecided- he pivoted back to preaching to his base, laying the groundwork for his next big money-making venture.
Connect the dots:
Trump.
Roger Ailes.
Steve Bannon.
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The GOP had ample opportunity to stop this scam dead in its tracks, and place a legitimate candidate on the ticket. Instead, they ponied up 17 other feckless candidates, offered zero to no opposition to Trump's bully style of primary campaigning... and let his rabid base sweep over the primary process like they did in 2010, when they steamrolled the Teas into CapHill.
I've been holding out on saying this for a long time, because I didn't want to be 'THAT' poster who took any legitimate political thread "down the rabbit hole," but I'll say it now, because I no longer care what you people think of me. There comes a time when a person must speak his mind, if he ever wants another decent night's sleep. For me, that time is now.
This dude has NEVER been serious about becoming the President of the United States of America. He's never once in his long history in the public eye shown the slightest interest in American History, intellectual rigor, Constitutional Law, Civic issues, Philanthropy, or service to this country's greater good. His book is the best evidence this prosecutor could ever offer up as evidence of his M.O. ... and he's never deviated from the template he outlined in those pages. Not even now.
It's all been a 'long-game.' And he's more than ready to get out of it... and make himself some REAL money.
Because that's what he's always been about. He's said it himself- in so many words.
Ted, Haus, guys and gals who've know me for all these years.... you wanna know why I'm so "out of character" when I talk about this guy? Why I'm not as "fair-minded," "reasonable," and "even-keeled" when I talk about this I'm now glad to tell you.
When I was 12 years old, My Pops absolutely DESTROYED my childish world-view. It happened at the Allen County Fair. We always took our family vacation at the same time that the fair was in town. Our Family went on our 2-week vacation at the same time that the fair was in town. We'd go to these wonderful places: Niagara Falls, Gettysburg, Wisconsin Dells, Yosemtie, Expo '67 in Montreal... and I'd always come back to stories from my neighborhood hoodrats about how great the Allen Co. Fair was. I pressured him for months about it... so he did the unthinkable: he postponed our Family Vacation by a week... just to take me to the fair- for 4 straight days.
We went every single day, whether I wanted to, or not. He showed me how the midway games were 'rigged' with weighted baseballs, basketball hoops that weren't regulation, foot switches that allowed or prevented people to win at the 'hammer drop (HOW does a 110 lb cheerleader 'ring the bell' at the top of a 20-ft display, when her 240 lb linebacker boyfriend fails to get the ringer even 3/4ths the way up?)
He saved the Carnival Barker for last, on Day Three of that weekend.We'd seen all the attractions, so My Pops FORCED me to follow this dude, and watch what he did- and how he did it.
"Bobby... THIS is the guy that makes the whole thing work. He gets the whole town to come out and spend their money. Everyone you saw this weekend works for him... and when they're done- they leave you."
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We never went back to another County Fair. We didn't have to. I was cured of my obsession about what I'd missed, by going on all those fantastic family vacations.
I never pressured him to take me to another one, and we never did go together- ever again.
My Pops knew a 'PT Barnum' when he saw one... and he was willing to postpone his regularly-scheduled Family Vacation to teach his son a lesson.
A lesson I never forgot.
A lesson I used, when assessing Donald Trunp- way back in 1986.
I've seen him 'run his game' since Day One.
A I never fell for it... because I was raised to 'identify the markers.'
My Pops was The [expletive].
I saw Trump for what he was 30 years ago. I was trained by The Best to spot guys like him... before I even had my first kiss from a girl.
PT Barnum:
"There's a sucker born every minute."
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
i dont see anything link it Page 14 https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1173208/14Scroll down until you see a wall of text. It might be a different page if your settings are a different number of posts per page than the default of 40.
Last edited by Haus; 10/20/16 01:34 PM. Reason: cfrs beat me to it
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
oh yea that one.
i loved that post clem.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
hey guys,
did you notice that Hillary stuck around after the debate?
Trump immediately left. was he sick? why was his eyes so red? i hope he isn't sick. it's a real concern guys. if he doesn't have the stamina for this, voters should take that into consideration. why did he leave so early?
:)))))
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Election Thread #14: The Final
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