DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Underrated and Overrated: AFC North

As some of you can sort of tell, I'm a gigantic nerd. I am a scout on the web, and I'm been working on the AFC North this year. Just figured I'd open up some discussion about guys in our divison. Have at it, comment away, or post your own...

OVERRATED

Terrell Suggs DE Ravens: Suggs is easily the most overhyped player in the North. The Ravens really bombed out by letting Adalius Thomas go, and deciding to keep that money free for Suggs. Suggs is a gym class bully who picks on the nerds for their lunch money, metaphorically speaking. He has great games against substandard LT's, and then goes to sleep against quality LT's. Suggs has no technique, and usually just rushes wide. Smarter tackles like Tarik Glenn have figured out that he is useless if he's pushed back inside. Glenn and some other tackles have taken to using a inside short arm technique on Suggs (I can explain this in depth if people don't know what I mean). Suggs probably was a better LB/standup pass rusher in a 3-4, but there's no way they can trust him there in the current D. He really has never improved in the NFL.

Deltha O'Neal CB Bengals: There's a reason Mike Shannahan moved this guy to WR in Denver. He is so sloppy. He bites on double moves, and can't locate the ball over his shoulder. He's got a great set of mitts, but that's about it. The Bengals should have taken up that offer to trade him to Atlanta for a third rounder around draft time. O'Neal has the make up of a great cover corner who can blanket receivers in single coverage, but he lacks the discipline to play a receiver for any other reason than getting a pick. I'm not a big fan of Leon Hall, who will almost for sure replace O'Neal this year, but at least Hall has some cover technique.

Jamal Lewis RB Browns: I'm probably going to get lynched for this. The fan in me wants him to be the bruiser he was a few years ago, but I'm worried that at 27 he's shot. Power backs always hit the wall earlier than speedier backs, and fast too. Lewis is very light on his feet for a man who's a bowling ball runner, but I wonder about his ability to maintain the workload the Browns need (20 a game) without a dependable backup behind him. My biggest issue is that Lewis is not the game changer he used to be, and isn't a threat to bust off a long run anymore due to the wear and tear.

Heath Miller TE Steelers: This one I had with The Steelers really don't have anyone that screams out at you as overrated, but if anyone to me it's Miller. Yes he's a youngster, and could improve in Arians offense, but even as a decoy, I think he sucks at stretching the seam. Teams didn't respect him last year as that decoy, and as a result it forced Roethlisberger to push a lot of hard throws. Teams didn't need to commit a S to him, so they were free to double up on the WR's. He might be best at H-back, but even with his speed, I doubt he's ever a vertical TE.

UNDERRATED

Chris Henry WR Bengals: I understand the guy is a loon, and probably is going to be out of the league, but Henry gets no credit for being a great wide receiver. I think if he would stay out of trouble, and stop getting suspended, the Bengals would elevate him over Housmanzadeh. Henry is deceptively fast, and masks his routes well. He does well in the slot, even though he's not very physical, or a good blocker. He's so much like a young Randy Moss it's scary. He runs an amazing deep post pattern, and Palmer loves it in the red zone.

Sean Mahan C Steelers: This only counts if Mahan is put at C. He's not powerful enough to play RG, and Gruden (who knows just about nothing about line play) was always playing him out of position. Mahan is not a people mover, but he seals off blockers well. Mahan understands angles and leverage very well, and at C he'll be able to better utilize this. He's a lot like Hartings. If he doesn't win the battle over Okobi and Phillip I'll be stunned. I was really rooting for the Browns to bring him in at C if they lost Fraley.

Joe Jurevicius WR Browns: I've been saying since his Super Bowl appearance on the Giants that he had the makeup of a very good #2 receiver. Gruden and Holmgren both loved him because he's an amazing WCO receiver. Jurevicius does the little things that often go unnnoticed. He shields the ball well from defenders, and turns upfield very quickly once he gets his hands on the ball. Jurevicius has the steadiest hands too. I would love for the Browns to move him to the slot and run more 3 receiver sets, but the lack of another presence at flanker forces them to keep him outside.

P.J. Daniels RB Ravens: This slot should be Bart Scott, but everyone knows about him now. On a veteran team making a Super Bowl run, it's hard to have a guy fly under the radar, but Daniels does. Last year was basically a redshirt year for him, but once Musa Smith gets hurt this year (he always does), Daniels can step in be a good compliment to McGahee. Daniels is a lot like Jamal Lewis in the fact that he can grind out a defense, and be a closer back. McGahee has never been interested in getting the tough yards, so I expect to Daniels to emerge as their short yards back.

Interesting assessment. I was hoping one of our underrated guys would have been a younger guy though, lol.

Sigh, I wish. Jurevicius is a guy who doesn't get a ton of hype, but he's been on three Super Bowl teams, and been a big part of the offense on each one. I think if they convert to more of a run based offense, with Winslow as the top passing weapon, Edwards #2 (it might be asking a lot), and Joe as the #3, who gets around 700 or so yards, 8 TD's, they could have a very good offense.

Of the younger guys, most of them either standout (Jones, Wimbley, D'Qwell, etc) or are spotty but show promise (Pool, Edwards, Frye).

I'd add Andra Davis our MLber to the list .. WAY OVERRATED IMO ...

LOL I've had enough Andra Davis talk for one day!

Interesting post. I do think guys can be well-known and still be underrated. And, I guess the opposite is true too.

I'm going to put some thought into this and post again later, but I can do the Browns right away.


Underrated: Orpheus Roye. He was hurt last year, but the big man is a very solid defensive lineman. He can play inside in a 4-3 defense and outside in a 3-4 defense. He is very large and hard to move. You don't see him getting taken way out of the play. He also is pretty good coming out of his stance and can get occasional pressure. He works extremely hard and makes big plays in crucial situations. He is also a true pro. I like the guy a lot.


Overrated: Brodney Pool. I've never seen a guy get so much praise for doing so little. He is slow to react, doesn't have a nose for the ball, and stands around all the time. I could care less how good he looks in shorts. He looks awful on the field. I hope the light comes on for him this year, because it sure didn't in the past two.

Underrated: Sean Jones S

Underrated is Leigh Bodden, he may be one of the most underrated players in the NFL... I know its going to come off extremely bias with my name, but his skill level is amazing for an UFA.

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Power backs always hit the wall earlier than speedier backs, and fast too

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Yeah tell that to Bettis age 35

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Overrated: Brodney Pool. I've never seen a guy get so much praise for doing so little. He is slow to react, doesn't have a nose for the ball, and stands around all the time. I could care less how good he looks in shorts. He looks awful on the field. I hope the light comes on for him this year, because it sure didn't in the past two.

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Brodney Pool just recently turned 23, in all fairness to the guy. Plenty of rookies come into the NFL at 23 years old. While the mental part of the game hasn't clicked, if it does i think that we've got a safety tandem that teams will have to gameplan around.

Brodney Pool showed a lot of ability last year, there's no denying that. He just needs more experience/needs to mature more.

Hopefully this year is the year when everything clicks for Pool. We really could use another terrific safety for our defense.

I agree w/Pool also he looked HORRRRRIBLE against Pittsburgh when he was given the chance last year.

Overrated - McNair. Finally stayed healthy all 16 games and only threw about a TD per game or something like that. Ints are creeping up and long ball production is decreasing. He's still a solid player and a crafty vet with a good completion percentage, but I think he gets too much love for being a middle of the pack player.

Underrated - Roethlisberger. Hate to say it but the guy is good. Circumstances last year led to a strange season, but he still managed to put up 3500 yards and 18 TDs. He was picked off a lot more and they may struggle as a team this coming season, but I don't think we've seen the best yet from him.

Jamal Lewis - I think his surgery and his desire to show people wrong will reveal a much underrated player.

Willie Parker - I hate this guy, but his production was amazing last year.

Housh - The Golden Mouth gets the press and has more yards but Housh caught more balls and scored more TDs last year. Wish we had him on our team, I'd take him over ocho-ego any day.

Fraley - I think we'll see some real nastiness from this guy this season.

overrated

McGinnest and Ted Washington I dont think either is worth a roster spot.

Troy polamalu He is great at what he does but man he cant cover a fence post.

Ray Lewis Enjoy this season cause it is most likely Ray's last.

Rudi Johnson I hate saying it because he is one of my favorite backs in the league but the great backs can carry his team when the passing game isnt there and Rudi hasnt shown that yet.

Underrated

Steve Heiden The guy goes out does his job blocking and he makes big catches.

James Farrior He doesnt get the respect he deserves at really clogging that line. He doesnt make as many tackles as you like but that is often because he fills that hole so quickly and forces the run outside.

Trevor Pryce Seems like everyone on that Ravens team gets pimped like the greatest of all time and Pryce didnt get any love last year but he had something like 80 tackles and 13 sacks from the DE position which is outstanding from a 3-4 DE.

Madieu Williams The Bengals have a diamond in the rough with this kid. If Jonathon Joseph steps it up to where Williams is able to play a bit more loose, the kid is gonna be a stud.

Jurevicius is underated, but he's not a pro bowl player who doesn't get any hype....like Sean Jones and Leigh Bodden. Both of those guys are really underated. Believe it or not Kellen Winslow is underrated too. He had 89 catches last year to tie a franchise record including 11 catches in game 16, but the talking heads say "he needs to stay healthy and have a breakout year". They apparently don't watch all the games.

I don't agree with the Jamal Lewis assesment...
I agree that he isn't the same as he use to be...but then again who is? at age 27 however, i do not think his time is up....it's 27 for crying out loud!!! he isn't even close to 30..jeez i don't get why ppl wanna close the book on this guy...he is hands down the best RB the browns have had in the last few years...

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i don't get why ppl wanna close the book on this guy...he is hands down the best RB the browns have had in the last few years...

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Probably because his last two seasons his YPC has fallen way off.

In his defense he had an injury and couldn't rehab properly (he was in jail and a halfway house) and last year he played with bone spurs.

Also in his defense, it seems that the Ravens line kept declining parallel to his YPC.

Also in his defense he's a Cleveland Brown now!

Well, I don't know how he'll do as a Cleveland Brown this year, but I just don't think Jamal is overrated since I feel the opinion of most of the football watching community (outside Cleveland) is that he's "lost his step" since the Raven's unloaded him. This is also why he's motivated this year, and why we'll receive the best of what he's got left (whatever that ends up being). Let's hope it's a lot.

Lewis is only 27, but he was 20 when he got into the league. He's had two ACL tears, is a high carry back, and now has ankle problems. I'm just not sure he has much left. Why would Baltimore give up on him if so?

I'm really surprised that more people did not have Ray Lewis as over-rated. I think Mour was the only one.

Over-rated:
1) Ray Lewis: Dude makes me sick. If he did not have the "schtick" that he has (jumping around like an idiot after every play like he just clocked somebody) and if he did not have all that talent around him... he would not be a starter anymore!

2) Tom Brady: I know I will get blasted on this one. I think is very good, but not the demi-god that many make him out to be. I think he has benefited a tremendous amount from the system he is in.

3) Andra Davis: He is an average linebacker, not the Pro-Bowl snubbed player that some make him out to be.

Under-Rated
1) Leigh Bodden: Above average #1 corner who nobody outside of Cleveland has heard of.

2) Carson Palmer: He should be mentioned with Payton as the top 2 QBs in the league.

2) Kelly Gregg (NT for the Rats): Non-stop guy who consistently ties up two people so the LBers can make the hit.

Just giving you crap, welcome to the board.

I do have to disagree with you about Brady a little bit. He is clutch and for a couple of those Super Bowls, he did not have the most elite offense around him...I'm not knocking on Manning, but he didn't have Harrison, Wayne, Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, Addai, and Clark. That's for sure.

i don't think you can really put jamal lewis on the overrated list, simply because most of us aren't expecting anything spectacular out of him... we know he may be near the end of his prime, and he's had injuries... as long as he stays healthy and holds on to the ball, we'll take it... that's basically how i felt with reuben droughns... i like what we've done with our rb situation though, in the next few years we'll burn a pick on a stud rb, but for now they're addressing other places...

and tom brady is nowhere close to being overrated...

most clutch qb in the league, has the best poise, is the best leader, one of the most accurate around...

he's an absolute gamer... he turns practice squad receivers into good receivers..

lives the for the moment, he's an absolute competitor, close to the same level as a michael jordan, hates to lose...

i'm not worried about what jamal can do on the field, i'm worried about what happens if jamal goes down with an injury...

cause then it gets ugly... harrison, wright, good players, but can those guys take 20-25 carries a game? can they even split that?

that's what i'm worried about

they can split that easily... and put Barclay in the picture as well... with our new o-line.. there should be a lot more holes and gaps to run through.. for anyone running the rock..

I don't know Big C......I mean everytime Jamal Lewis and the Browns were on the field at the same time he seemed to pull off 200+ yards...we could be looking at the first 3200 yrd back....LOL LMAO

I am not so sure Jamal Lewis would be the guy I would pick from us that is the most overatted. I can see the point, but not sure I agree with it. A guy I might pick would be Edwards. Edwards was a #3 pick overall and has only shown glimpses of that accolade. I think he could be worth it, but that is comlpetely up to him....McGinest might be a pick...he is quite valuable to this team but he isn't the same player that many treat him to be(hey the guy earned that respect so I can't fault anyone for giving it to to him) Andra Davis' name has been brought up. I think he is solid, but not the ProBowl snub. I might say Frye...but he is only held on high by Browns Fans. So when all is said and done.....I think I keep having to go back to Edwards......

We don't have any overrated players. No one on our team is rated high enough to be overrated lol.

Fans can over hype our players which is done quite frequently.