So your only response is that I am a troll or a moron? Great answer. Have you been to the middle east? If not just shut up and color. Oh and your clueless to boot, this war has been going on for years, and your senseless babble doesn't prove that, but shows how unintelligent alot of our people are. Not that I really care but your post really made me laugh, since It's obvious you have no clue on what you have compared to other countries
I can't figure out who you are advocating we kill. If you want to slaughter the suicide bombers..go for it. Good luck figuring out who and where they are. Since you said "Nuke" I figured you meant kill a large population of innocent Iraqi civilians. I'm not going to continue launch insults where I potentially could be misunderstanding you.
Quote: You mean that "fighting them over there" won't prevent us from having to "fight them over here"???? Well,so much for that theory huh?
I'm shocked!
Haha...I was just reading some old Eisenhower stuff...if we didn't stop communism in Vietnam, it would spread throughout SE Asia, then Hawaii then California...it was better, he said, to fight communism in Asia, rather than on American soil.
Quote: Anything to scare the hell out of the American people to garner their support for an unneeded war I suppose.
But why am I not surprised that it isn't anything "original" by the Bush administration?
The Bush administration, with the tacit approval of congress - see pit, you always forget that the house and the senate approved it............can you admit it just once?
Sure I can. And both the senate AND the Congress were a GOP majority.
And if you actually bothered "reading it",instead of phrasing it how it suits your side of the arguement,he was "given the authority to go to war". Nothing more,or nothing less.
Let me pose a question to you. If I "give you the authority" to cut off your right hand,will you blame ME if you "use that authority"?
Pretty basic Arch.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Voted to give someone "the authority" to go to war? Yes they did.
But as I said before,if I give you the "authority to cut off your right hand",are you going to blame me if "you choose" to excercise that authority? Or would that be your decision to make if "given the authority" to do so?
I really thought it was a fairly simple question?
From every indication I get from some of you,you would.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Quote: But as I said before,if I give you the "authority to cut off your right hand",are you going to blame me if "you choose" to excercise that authority?
So, you're saying that congress gave Bush the authority to go to war in Iraq... but are blameless because they didn't think he'd actually do it.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Quote: But as I said before,if I give you the "authority to cut off your right hand",are you going to blame me if "you choose" to excercise that authority?
So, you're saying that congress gave Bush the authority to go to war in Iraq... but are blameless because they didn't think he'd actually do it.
Pit, you're wrong here IMO.
Bush presented these people with bunk, and they signed off on it. They signed off of it with absolutely no knowledge of the situation, because they decided not to do their jobs and didn't read up.
Also, the intelligence agencies are not blameless. Savor the flavor if you wish, but I will quasi-defend Bush here and say - possibly - that the CIA is at fault for providing Bush with the info they thought he wanted to hear. I don't want to toot my own horn, but I'd say whatver one's opinion is here, I've read over the material more than anyone here and that trend is very apparent.
Quote: But as I said before,if I give you the "authority to cut off your right hand",are you going to blame me if "you choose" to excercise that authority?
So, you're saying that congress gave Bush the authority to go to war in Iraq... but are blameless because they didn't think he'd actually do it.
Pit, you're wrong here IMO.
Bush presented these people with bunk, and they signed off on it. They signed off of it with absolutely no knowledge of the situation, because they decided not to do their jobs and didn't read up.
Also, the intelligence agencies are not blameless. Savor the flavor if you wish, but I will quasi-defend Bush here and say - possibly - that the CIA is at fault for providing Bush with the info they thought he wanted to hear. I don't want to toot my own horn, but I'd say whatver one's opinion is here, I've read over the material more than anyone here and that trend is very apparent.
Thank you, for returning some sanity to this topic. It amazes me how 1 poster can continually bash Bush, and ONLY Bush i.e. Bush is the only person to blame. Agree with the war or not, your post is to be commended for its fairness and accuracy.
And phil, I've agreed with you about twice in my lifetime.
Generally the adage that "the cream rises to the top" is an expression of appreciation for hard and competent efforts on behalf of others. In D.C. it appears that gas bags and mal contents rule the day. Bush has been a major dissapointment and one who refuses to compromise when the cards have been turned over. The Republican leadership in the House and Senate is impotent due to the Peter Principle and minority status. The party that gave us Al Gore, John Kerry has given way to the "style over substance" group lead by Billary Clinton,Nancy Pelosi,Babs Boxer,Babs Maculsky, Chuckie Schummer and Edward Kennedy. I should include Harry Reid but I believe he must be from Mars given his out of this world view of America and it's enemies.
In short our choice of politicians today is poor at best. Liars and charlatans and Hessians seem to be in charge while guys like Lieberman and Ron Paul are left on the outside looking in. Maybe shooting duels between the leadership positions in Congress is a good idea.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
The question I will pose to you is a simple one Phil.
What did and was the purpose of the document they signed off on a propsal to do?
I think,since you HAVE read so much about it,you already know the answer..........................................
"It was to give Bush the authority to go to war"
I agree with the things you said. But the fact remains,that IS what the document was.
And no matter how you slice it,nobody "forced his hand" in his decision to deploy those troops.
The congress didn't deploy those troops. They did however give the president their blessings to do so IF he so chose to. But it was his choice in the end. Congress does not have the power to do that. We both know that.
Were they foolish to do so? Most certainly. Did they search into the subject and have full disclosure of all the pertinant information needed to make an informed judgement on the matter? Most certainly not. Are they as idiotic as our president? In the vast majority of cases,they certainly are.
But in the end,only ONE PERSON held the authority to deploy our troops. And that's the president of the United States.
Unless of course you can explain to me someone else in our government that has the power to do so and excercised it in this case?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Quote: But as I said before,if I give you the "authority to cut off your right hand",are you going to blame me if "you choose" to excercise that authority?
So, you're saying that congress gave Bush the authority to go to war in Iraq... but are blameless because they didn't think he'd actually do it.
No,I'm saying congress was moronic and didn't do their homework properly beforehand.
But the president is responsible for the ultimate decision. And he,and only he,has the authority to deploy troops. And the choice was his to make. That's what I'm saying.
Once again,NOBODY has addressed that very simple question,so,I'll try again....................................
If I give you the authority to make your own decision about cutting off your right hand and you choose to do so. Will you in turn blame ME because you chose to do it?
Why is that such a difficult question for such an informed bunch of posters to answer?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Quote: In short our choice of politicians today is poor at best. Liars and charlatans and Hessians seem to be in charge while guys like Lieberman and Ron Paul are left on the outside looking in. Maybe shooting duels between the leadership positions in Congress is a good idea.
I 100% agree with you!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I think you know I feel that this war is Bush's baby, Bush's project, Bush's legacy...it's his war, but they enabled him to botch it. Blaming others for what they did wrong doesn't make Bush any less guilty.
Quote: If I give you the authority to make your own decision about cutting off your right hand and you choose to do so. Will you in turn blame ME because you chose to do it?
Why is that such a difficult question for such an informed bunch of posters to answer?
Because it doesn't apply here. I don't REQUIRE your authorization to cut off my hand. A solicitation for REQUIRED congressional authorization to go to war means that the concept is actually being considered, and that there's a high probability it will actually occur. Has there ever been a case of congressional authorization for war that was not followed through with?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
In criminal terms,I consider that congress "aided and abedded Bush" in the act of deploying the troops. If that makes it any clearer.
They gave him the means to commit the act of deploying the troops.
However,the final decision was NOT theirs to make. That decision lays squarely upon the shoulders of the one who made that decision and acted upon HIS final decision.Nobody else had the power to do that accept the president.
The simple FACT is,Congress does NOT have the authority to deploy troops. I don't see how owning up to that fact is so difficult for some to come to terms with.
In case you haven't noticed,congress authorizes LOTS of things Bush DOESN'T act upon as well.
Quote: The simple FACT is,Congress does NOT have the authority to deploy troops. I don't see how owning up to that fact is so difficult for some to come to terms with.
I don't disagree with that at all. I just feel your analogy is off base because congress' approval was necessary for him to deploy the troops, and had they felt it was the wrong thing to do... they could have stopped him by saying no.
Someone could cut off their arm whether you give the OK or not, therefore your authorization has very little influence on the decision to do so.
ps....I sent you a pm.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
And that goes hand in hand with the congress people that approved/authorized it.........you know, people like hillary, that explicity said, standing on the floor of the senate I believe, "I have personally read the intelligence reports..........", then voted for it...........then came back years later and said "I never read the reports, and if I had, I wouldn't have voted the way I did.".
Yeah,most politicians are lying scum. What's new about that?
Just like the youtube video I posted. Rummy was fired shortly after that video,yet Bush said he stood beside Rummy.
They all do it! If you think I'm going to go to bat for Hillary,you're nuttier than a fruit cake!
She's "The George Bush" of the Dems! How putrid is that? No thanks to Hillary!
But once again,Hillary nor anyone else made the decision to deploy those troops but Bush. He's the one who put his name on the dotted line to send them. Nobody else has that authority but him. Why can't you just come to grips with the reality of that?
He said it himself. I posted it in video straight from the horses mouth.
"I am the decider"
He has no problem stating that. You just have a problem accepting it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Quote: But once again,Hillary nor anyone else made the decision to deploy those troops but Bush. He's the one who put his name on the dotted line to send them. Nobody else has that authority but him. Why can't you just come to grips with the reality of that?
He has no problem stating that. You just have a problem accepting it.
Quote: you know, people like hillary, that explicity said, standing on the floor of the senate I believe, "I have personally read the intelligence reports..........", then voted for it...........
Replace 'you know, people like Hillary' with 'you know, nearly every member of the voting Congress and Senate'.
Quote: you know, people like hillary, that explicity said, standing on the floor of the senate I believe, "I have personally read the intelligence reports..........", then voted for it...........
Replace 'you know, people like Hillary' with 'you know, nearly every member of the voting Congress and Senate'.
Probably. However, she is one of the few I know that did so, and admitted it, albeit years later.
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