DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Front Office...continued

Maybe we need better ("more experienced") QB scouts rather than more experienced higher ups. Analytics/formulae, etc. are only as good as the information fed into them.

Just a thought.

Vers made a point in another thread I'd like to address here, wondering what happens if the losses pile up into 2017.
IMO, Haslam has to give this FO three seasons - the coach, too - to determine if their plan is working out. If he knew-jerks his way into another house cleaning, it'll prove again he's an incompetent NFL owner.

Cleveland Browns have Terry Talkin' quarterbacks and right approach to rest of season -- Terry Pluto

Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
November 12, 2016 at 8:05 AM, updated November 12, 2016 at 8:20 AM
link

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Cleveland Browns are off this weekend, and everyone with the team needs a break.

The front office and coaching staff has to sit down and first agree that they are in this mess together. If fingers of blame starting pointing at each other, it will be more of the same approach that has doomed so many other Browns regimes.

The Browns need to return to the main purpose of this season -- developing and finding young players.

Hue Jackson needs to be told even if the Browns are 0-16 this season, he's not being fired.

Owner Jimmy Haslam must make that promise to his head coach. And Haslam has to stay the course with Jackson, regardless of how ugly it gets in 2016.

If you want to find and develop young players, then the coach must know he is safe.

If not, you will see more desperate moves such as rookie Cody Kessler being yanked in favor of Josh McCown early in the third quarter of what became Thursday's 28-7 loss in Baltimore.

Jackson is feeling the pressure of coaching the NFL's only winless team. It's embarrassing and frustrating. It's something he never imagined.

But the Browns 0-10 record doesn't belong only to Jackson. It's also a product of front office decisions. There has been some truly horrible luck involved.

In other words, from VP Sashi Brown on down -- they're all 0-10. This is a team effort.

Haslam has to resist the temptation to blow up the Brown/Jackson combination no matter how terrible the season ends. Another demolition job would just make the franchise even worse.

ABOUT JOSH McCOWN

Most Browns fans know McCown is a class act, a role model for young quarterbacks. He backs his coaches.

The criticism that follows has nothing to do with this good man's character or his will to help the team.

Consider the following:

McCown is 37 years old.
He broke a collarbone in 2015.
He broke a collarbone in 2016.
He had a rib injury (probably a fracture) in 2015.
He had a major concussion in 2015.
He missed eight games because of injuries in 2015. He was injured after one start this season.
He had a thumb injury in 2014 and missed five games while with Tampa.
I believe he's not close to feeling 100 percent physically right now. Consider how he can't move in the pocket and how long it takes him to get rid of the ball.

At his best, McCown can get on a hot streak and win a few games, but he has been a career backup.

Consider the following:

He is 18-41 as a starter for his career.
McCown was 3-2 with Chicago in five starts in 2013.
Since then, he has been 1-10 (Tampa, 2014), 1-7 (Browns, 2015) and 0-2 (Browns, 2016) as a starter.
It makes no sense for the NFL's youngest team to play McCown.

McCown has a history of turning the ball over, and not just with interceptions.

In 2014, he fumbled 10 times in 11 starts for Tampa Bay. His team lost four of those fumbles.
In 2015, he fumbled nine times in eight starts for the Browns. His team lost six of those fumbles.
This season, he has fumbled four times, the Browns losing two. He also has thrown six interceptions in 10 quarters.
McCown can be hot for a half. That happened in the first half of the losses to Baltimore and the Jets.

But in the second half of those games, McCown was a combined 19-of-41 passing with 1 TD and 4 interceptions.

A huge issue for McCown is dropping too deep in the pocket and standing in there too long. The blocking breaks down.

Because of all his injuries, McCown is not mobile at all. He becomes a stationary target for the defense. His age is showing.

In 10 quarters, McCown has six interceptions and four fumbles. He really is struggling under defensive pressure, turning the ball over.

There is a lot rookie Cody Kessler can learn from McCown, especially in terms of game preparation and how to survive in the NFL.

But there's nothing the Browns can learn with McCown on the field right now.

ABOUT CODY KESSLER

Jackson needs to go back to the reason he said "Trust Me" about Kessler.

A big part of why the Browns picked Kessler in the third round was his passing accuracy and how he stays away from turnovers.

Kessler was struggling in the Browns game at Baltimore.

He was 11-of-18 passing for only 91 yards. He hit a nice 25-yard TD pass to rookie tight end Seth DeValve.

But he had problems. He returned from a concussion to start the Browns 35-10 loss to Dallas last week. Then he left the game with the Browns losing, 13-7, early in third quarter in Baltimore.

In those two games, covering slightly more than six quarters, the Browns were 2-of-15 converting on third downs. They scored only 17 points.

Baltimore's defense was ranked No. 2 heading into Thursday night. Dallas was ranked No. 10.

Those teams are making a lot of quarterbacks look bad.

Heading into the fourth quarter, the Ravens had a 21-0 lead over Pittsburgh in the game before the Browns. The Steelers scored twice in the fourth quarter, making the final score 21-14, Baltimore.

Dallas has a 7-1 record and has held five of its opponents to fewer than 20 points.

That should be taken under consideration when looking at Kessler's recent performance.

Kessler has only one interception this season. He has fumbled four times (the Browns losing one).

So this is not about singing quarterback Hosanna's about him. Right now, Kessler looks like a career backup.

But he also looks like a much better choice to start the rest of the season for the Browns.

THE BOTTOM LINE

I really like Jackson as a coach for this team.

I admire how he has dealt with what is nearly an impossible situation when it comes to trying to win a game.

There are breakdowns. Defensive coordinator Ray Horton still creates doubts, at least for me. I have written about that before.

But the big picture is very positive when it comes to Jackson and his ability to handle the stress of losing and coaching such a young team. I write that despite not liking him pulling Kessler in Baltimore.

That was a first guess, because I immediately thought of his comment about not wanting to "play musical chairs" with his quarterbacks. He said that Monday.

No matter how he tries to explain it, he did crank up the quarterback music when he switched from Kessler to McCown.

The Browns need to spend time figuring out how to squeeze the most out of the last six games.

Despite the record, it is not a team totally lacking in talent. But most of that talent is young and it requires patience from the coaches, front office and ownership.

Unless Hue thinks anymore PT this year will HURT Cody ... Cody should be playing ...

He's a part of our future ... may as well get him the reps now ...

Plus, I don't think he can be a good starter but its way to early to throw the towel in on that yet ...

Hue said to trust him on Cody ... Well now Hue needs to trust HIMSELF and what he saw that led him to take Cody ...

This is very frustrating .. but this was NEVER about this year ...

^ ^Prime example of when someone makes a comment to try and discredit them w/o truly knowing their stance on the topic.

my hope is that Hue has been trying to hammer home teaching points to Cody, and during the Baltimore game Cody still wasn't applying them.

so Hue benched him as another teaching moment hoping Cody would respond and get it

Thats not how u handle a 23 year old rookie ... especially when your trying to force him to do something he's obviously not comftorable with at this point ...

If thats why he did it .. hes handling even worse than i thought and i think he's TOTALLY SCREWED this up since last weeks presser ...

Hue should be going over things with him and doing things to make him more comfortable in making the throws we need him to ATTEMPT! ...

If Cody isn't comfortable throwing deep, then all that does is confirm we need to draft a QB.

Defense in this league are way too good to be playing dink and dunk all the time.

"I will say it again, IMO, it does not help to just start firing everyone and start over again".

there is nobody to clean from the house accept haden and qbs

I agree ... u can't play dink and dunk all the time ... 100% agree with that ...

Cody is not near a finished product ... he's smart and accurate ... if he can learn to anticipate his throws he can make the throws necessary ... thats a PROCCESS ....

He's not there yet ... he's still learning how to read a defense .. the speed of the game ...

He's a THINKING TO MUCH .. when he gets more comfie and the progressions come natural to him and he is no longer THINKING ... he will be better ..

Do i think he will ever be more than a quality back up .. NO ... but we simply don't know that yet ...

HE'S A ROOKIE that has started .. what .. 4 or 5 games .. and u guys seem to think hes a FINISHED PRODUCT .... he's not even close ..

IMO this is way more FRUSTRATION than anything else ...

Also .. i would love to draft a QB early this year ... but not unless Hue lOVES one of them .. if he gambles on Watson or whoever the top QB's are in this draft just because we need one .. that will just RETARD OUR GROWTH ONCE AGAIN ....

Just because we need one ... doesn't make the kids coming out ANY BETTER ...

I'm very fearful were going to waste one of our 1st or 2nd round picks on a QB ..

I think the best thing to do for this org. Is to CUT THE HEAD OF THE SNAKE OFF!!! ....

Unfortunately thats not going to happen ...

It does not confirm anything. All it does is show that we need to find out if we can gt him to the point that he is willing to make those throws, then to get him comfortable making those throws.

If we cannot get him to that point then yes we need a new Qb.

Once at that point, we need to evaluate if he is any good at it.

If not, then we need to get a new Qb.

Well apparently Hue is losing patience trying to get him to that point.

He's watching the plays develop, yet Cody isn't pulling the trigger.

Right now the only QB on this team who is good at the deep ball is RG3.


But his injury history says he isn't the answer.

I think the FO and Hue are going QB in the first round if Cody refuses to throw deep these last 6 games. At some point, Cody had to grow a pair and launch a pass downfield.

Or he's just another colt McCoy

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...night-benching/


Cody Kessler says he’s motivated by Thursday night benching
Posted by Michael David Smith on November 12, 2016, 9:35 AM EST
BALTIMORE, MD - NOVEMBER 10: Quarterback Cody Kessler #6 of the Cleveland Browns is tackled by defensive end Timmy Jernigan #99 of the Baltimore Ravens in the second quarter at M&T Bank Stadium on November 10, 2016 in Baltimore, Maryland. (Photo by Rob Carr/Getty Images) Getty Images

Browns quarterback Cody Kessler was benched on Thursday night, but he’s not down about it.

Kessler said on Friday that he’s fired up and eager to prove he can be the man to lead the Browns, even if coach Hue Jackson had a quick hook with him during Thursday night’s loss to the Ravens.

“Yeah, it motivates you to want to be better,” he said, via Cleveland.com. “It motivates you to keep working hard for that to happen. For me, it was ‘if I’m in there I’m going to do everything I can, work as hard as I can and if I come out, I’m going to be the best teammate I can and support the guys.’ It just motivates me to continue to work harder and be that much better.”

Jackson’s decision to bench Kessler during the game was surprising because Kessler hadn’t been playing too badly, completing 11 of 18 passes for 91 yards, with one touchdown and no interceptions. Josh McCown was terrible in Kessler’s place, completing six of 13 passes for 59 yards, with no touchdowns and two interceptions.

Kessler has been confirmed as the Browns’ starter next week. It’s still possible that Robert Griffin III could return to the lineup late in the season, but from all indications Kessler is the man. And he sounds confident in himself, even if Jackson didn’t show much confidence in him.

All this stuff about "poor Cody" and "Hue is ruining him" is already old.

Hitching our wagon to Cody Kessler and blaming coaches---which ultimately leads to firings--is about as dumb as it gets.

I often wonder if that is the difference between practice and games..in practice he makes the reads and the throws and then come game time, he hesitates.

In the game thread I mentioned that when you watch the replay, it looks like the receivers are open...again that is from the couch and rewinding the DVR. Obviously, this is speculation on my part but the benching of Cody seemed to fit...trying to spur him on to make the throw -- let your receiver make a play. If you are worried about making a mistake, you'll never be an starting NFL QB and for a guy whose accuracy was heralded and

It took so long for us to even begin to throw in the middle of the field for most of the game...and Ravens exposed us at the middle all night. I was happy on the one throw to TP where the ball was thrown short (intentionally I think) and TP made the adjustment and I was thinking...sweet, the QB and Receivers are finally getting on the same page - but that ended quickly.

The frustrating part - for me - is that in my mind, a perfect pass will beat perfect coverage most of the time. I saw his accuracy capacity as his strength and figured we'd be a short - medium pass ball control Offense - much like Dallas did to us for most of the game. Ravens did the same - attack the middle of the field and not too deep, and then take your shots downfield. And we did this for the first few drives and then we slip into 'zombie O' where we seem to just go through the paces.

I'm praying the FO has a 3-year plan and this year with 0-3 wins being the expected reality. IF they really thought they were going to be a near .500 team, then we really are in trouble and the blame will result in a clean slate after next season and another reboot.

Never said "poor Cody" .. what i did say was Hue screwed this up the last 2 weeks cause he did .. and u know it ... who am i suppose to blame for Hue wanting him to do something he isn't COMFTORABLE with yet? ... that sounds like a coaching problem to me ...

also said i think he will never be an average starter in this league ... just ignore that to push your "horrible plan" agenda ...

Then again I'm not a member of or the president of the FREE PASS FOR JACKSON club ... poor Hue ... poor poor Hue ... oh wait .. he stuck himself with Cody and RG3 and Josh ...

*LOL* ... he's played in 6 games ..... KICK HIM TO THE CURB ... hes a finished product ... ..

U sound like Swish now ...

Not comfortable yet? LOL.

Ultimately that is the question. How long do you give him?

If I'm Hue, I design a couple plays where he has no choice but to throw deep. Coleman runs a fly, Pryor a deep post. Everyone else stays in for max protect. Force Kessler to start throwing deep.

That would work except Kesller doesn't have the arm to go deep. The kid is west coast Colt McFry. If Hue knew what he was doing he would have known that before the draft.

On stating last night Kessler wasn’t doing what he normally does well and what those were:

“First of all, let me say this about Cody: Me and Cody had a great conversation this morning. Cody is in a great place. You guys all know, I think he understands the situation from last night was a tough one. I think you guys will find when you get the opportunity to talk to him that he learned that this experience of a Thursday night game is tough. It is different. This was his first opportunity under the lights and our whole team’s first opportunity under the lights, a kind of pressure-packed gameplan on Thursday night and a whole different process during the week than what you normally do, and it can be a little unsettling. What I saw earlier were just some things of putting the ball in the proper spots where I wanted the ball to be, and it wasn’t there, but it wasn’t just Cody, let me say that. When I look back at it now and had a chance to watch the tape, it is an offensive unit issue. Obviously, everything that you guys know from me is driven by the quarterback. He knows that and understands that. He is the quarterback and he will come back out here and get ready to fight against Pittsburgh.

I think we are drafting another QB but hope not in the 1st round...I just don't see a 1st rounder in the up coming bunch.

as of right now Cody needs more reps for sure. One thing is for sure. I don't want to see anymore of this 3 QB's a game thing. If we ride with Cody then by god ride with Cody.

I won't be surprised to hear from Sashi and DePodesta this week. The bye at the latest. My guess is you don't hear from Haslam until the season is over.

Furthermore, don't expect to hear much other than we need to be patient, we expected to win more games, there has been a number injuries, we're never going to stop working to improve.....etc. It won't be anything groundbreaking is my point.

All depends on how the media goes in on them with the questioning.

Oh, the horror!

if Sashi and Depodesta were let go in the off season I doubt they would be hired by another NFL front office in the capacity they have with the Browns
they would be just like the previous Browns failures ....Heckert...Farmer.....Savage.
going what if......"Yeah NFL Gm.....it's a tough racket.....I was in over my head....bartender another Jack and Coke please."

How else would Depo let people know he was using sarcasm besides just dressing in purple.

You mean something like a walking, talking, living, breathing, emoticon?

So this sums up my issue with your current take on the Brown's FO (Plus the constant belittling of them by using 'Harvard Boys').

You've taken a 4 or 8 second snippet of a 3 hour plus game - and saw Podesta texting someone on his phone. You've decided to interpret that as Podesta isn't interested in the game, period. I don't think that's fair or accurate. jmo

As for why Podesta Sashi and Haslam don't answer questions in the media .... I think Hue made a very astute comment early on in training camp - I don't know if anyone else can remember the circumstances better - Hue was fielding questions from a clearly riled up media after one set back or another but very early in training camp, or maybe it was about naming a starter very very early in camp ... he basically said something that the Cleveland media was asking the sort of questions that only a chronically losing franchise could come up with. That on normal football teams the issues that the media were fixating on were not aspects that the media for other teams ever inquired or wrote about..... To me the idea that the Sashi, Podesta and Haslam need to be paraded in front of the media is another example of this. Personally I want them to continue to act and operate in a fashion in accordance with a normal NFL team - 0-16 a possibility or not. I remember when Detroit went 0-16 ... I remember a lot of media play and speculation - I don't remember the GM or owner holding crisis media sessions to answer questions from the media. . . .

Iv'e seen talk about whether everyone's getting a free pass in 2016, and to some extent I think they are and I don't have a problem with it because the plan was always about a complete re-boot. I don't think you can begin to judge the plan or the re-boot until next year. again - jmo.

Typically, the FO and perhaps the owner will wait until the bye week to address the media. You are making a big deal out of nothing.


Now, I want to get back to Cody for a minute. It seems a lot of people are defending him and getting on Hue. I even read where Cody isn't comfortable making all the throws yet. What?

This is the NFL! If he isn't comfortable--or more likely he can't--make[ing] all the throws yet, his butt needs to be benched immediately. And it probably means he has no chance of ever being decent in this league.

I just hope that comment was not true, for our sake and for Cody's.

It could be really simple Vers. The coaching staff looks at the film and see's guys open down field. Kessler being a Rookie and see's guys as covered down field. We all know there is a big difference between open in College and open in the NFL Kessler is still trying to learn what open really is in the NFL. It's a process, and it takes time. Will he ever learn it??? Is it all mental right now or does he not have confidence in his arm??? Is it that his arm is just to weak??? Time will tell bro.

Good post, but we also know that he had the same rap in college.

I'd explain EVERYTHING to U .... but U know what i mean and u know i'm right ...

All I'll say is ...

He's not a FINISHED PRODUCT ... appearantly u think he is ...

Hue messed this up over the last two weeks ... and u know that too ...

He's talking about me ... no article ...

GM just said one of the same things I been saying about it ... and Vers says its a good post ... guess U agree with me alot more than u want to admit Vers ...

Jason La Canfora (I know) has a new article out.....

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/tensio...d-and-expected/
Tension mounting in Cleveland, where yet more change is feared


If Haslem fires anybody I am done with this team. The sad part is we are still getting reports of FO and coaching tension with yet another regime. Common factor is Jimmay........he wants to run the show and has no frigging clue what he is doing