Good arm...good footwork...some questionable decisions here and there. I don't think overall #1. We'll see how this goes...Nov. is one thing, by April next year he could be ranked as #1
I saw a guy Lock - I thought he played QB as well as anybody that I've seen this year. don't know if it was 1 game but I liked his footwork and arm also.
I'm very confident in the our drafting...I thought we did a good job last season. Don't see any bums - I think some here are over thinking a lot of the players.
19 rookies on our roster. All will play better...don't know how many will stick.
btw DeValve is the real deal. I know he is not getting many reps but what I see of him...he is going to be a play maker for us!
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Good arm...good footwork...some questionable decisions here and there. I don't think overall #1. We'll see how this goes...Nov. is one thing, by April next year he could be ranked as #1
Trubisky is becoming my favorite QB in the draft. Has the right size/frame, moves well in the pocket, has an NFL arm. I'm not sure where he deserves to be taken and I'm no QB evaluator, but if the Browns like him, I'd be fine taking him with the #1 pick. We need a QB...if that isn't blatantly obvious.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
Over in the game day thread someone brought up the subject of why Haslam, Depodesta and Sashi do not make themselves available to the media, to answer some questions? Hue is the one getting all the questions, while the owner and his Harvard Boys remain in hiding.
outside of Jerry Jones, how often do you see the owners and VP/GM address the media. Sashi just did that a week or two ago. Hue is the man of the day when it comes to talking about what player did well and which one didn't and why something did or didn't work in a game.
What's haslam supposed to say? What do you want to hear from him. I mean, it's pretty damn clear you have no respect for the man so why do you even care what he has to say?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Focus on what Joe said about them, not more than likely this hacks comments .. We all Mack was one of the best and he is making a HUGE DIFFERENCE in Atlanta ... I have no clue how Schwartz is playing, what i do know is that Joe thought alot about him when he was here ...
Joe Thomas vents at Browns management
It was inevitable that a veteran Browns player would fire a shot up the stairs at management this season. It's actually impressive that it took 11 weeks (and 11 losses).
After bottoming out against the Steelers (5-5) on Sunday in a game that saw them yield eight sacks and again get a quarterback injured, captain Joe Thomas said what was on just about everyone's mind.
"You've got to lie in the bed that you've made," he said, via The Chronicle Telegram. "We lost a couple really good players, I think the best at their position. But that was our strategy in the offseason. That's what we decided to do.
"The guys that are making the personnel decisions, they're the experts on that, so they're the ones that have to make those decisions and look at those decisions when they're made."
Thomas is obviously talking about the loss of both Mitchell Schwartz and Alex Mack. Both are having fantastic seasons in their new destinations, though the Browns probably figured that was going to happen anyway. The team's new brain trust was clear that they were going young and cheap, with Thomas being one of the few anchor pieces for the future.
While Thomas' remarks were pretty pointed, it's hard to imagine anyone there losing faith in the process just yet. Yes, the Browns are winless and plummeting fast toward the No. 1 pick in this year's NFL draft, but they were fairly clear about their intentions all along. Draft tons of cost-controlled players in the top 100, let them fight it out for spots and, when the time is right, supplement in free agency. What they weren't clear on was the effect it might have if the season wears on like this.
Someone needs to tell Sashi we do care about wins and loses I mean I'm sick of losing!!!
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
this may be the worst franchise i have ever had the displeasure of viewing. From ownership to kicker, we suck. Croocked owner, head coach that has givne up, team president that says its not about winning football games. 14 wasted draft picks, offensive line that blocks continues to block 1 man with with 3 while the QBs get killed. Hell we had to call a timeout a week ago because Horton had 12 men out there on the very first play of the game. Does anyone realize how freaking incompetent you have to be to have 12 men on the first defensive possession that you scripted for all week. It was about as brilliant as hue running the option with McCown when he had the separated shoulder.
I wont watch another game this year and I really have no desire to purchase sunday ticket to watch them next year. I think givingup 8 sacks to a Steelers team that hasnt had a pass rush against anyone was about the final straw for me.
There is not one single thing to build upon with this team. We arent 0-16 bounc, we may be 0-32 bound.
Someone needs to tell Sashi we do care about wins and loses I mean I'm sick of losing!!!
To be fair, he said they aren't 'focused' on wins and losses. Poor choice of words, no doubt. But not the same as not caring.
I think that comment got taken a little out of context. I took it to mean that they are not focused on wins and losses as part of their evaluation of the plan and where it's headed.
Good arm...good footwork...some questionable decisions here and there. I don't think overall #1. We'll see how this goes...Nov. is one thing, by April next year he could be ranked as #1
Trubisky is becoming my favorite QB in the draft. Has the right size/frame, moves well in the pocket, has an NFL arm. I'm not sure where he deserves to be taken and I'm no QB evaluator, but if the Browns like him, I'd be fine taking him with the #1 pick. We need a QB...if that isn't blatantly obvious.
Would you be willing to trade the #1 overall to NE for Jimmy G then? I'd rather do that than draft any player likley to come out in '17...but I wouldn't do either (trade the #1 to NE for Jimmy G or draft Trubinsky #1 overall) if the decision were up to me.
Good arm...good footwork...some questionable decisions here and there. I don't think overall #1. We'll see how this goes...Nov. is one thing, by April next year he could be ranked as #1
Trubisky is becoming my favorite QB in the draft. Has the right size/frame, moves well in the pocket, has an NFL arm. I'm not sure where he deserves to be taken and I'm no QB evaluator, but if the Browns like him, I'd be fine taking him with the #1 pick. We need a QB...if that isn't blatantly obvious.
Browns are honing in on Tar Heels QB Mitch Trubisky in the 2017 NFL Draft
The Browns shocked many in the NFL by passing on Carson Wentz and trading out of the second overall pick a year ago. And even though they drafted Cody Kessler on the second day, the team has put significant time and resources into finding its long-term solution to its ongoing quarterback problem in the 2017 draft. And with the college season winding down, multiple sources said the team's scouts and brass are very high on North Carolina junior quarterback Mitch Trubisky. Trubisky has not received as much press as higher-profile quarterbacks, but the junior and first-year starter is one of the better prospects in what is perceived as a shallow QB class, and sources said the Browns have been particularly impressed by him. The franchise, which uses a heavy reliance on analytics, has strong grades on him, and it's not a secret in the scouting community how highly the Browns rate him. "They love him," a top evaluator from another NFL club said. "Trust me, they love him." Cleveland has been searching for quarterback stability since it re-entered the league as an expansion team in 1999. The Browns are again loaded with picks in 2017, two in the first round (including No. 1 overall should they remain on their winless path). Any stability in the front office -- the Browns have repeatedly changed regimes under owner Jimmy Haslam -- ultimately will be tied to finally figuring out the most important position on the field, and last week's benching of Kessler mid-game was another indication of his limitations.
At 6-feet-3, Trubisky has the arm strength to play in the adverse conditions of the AFC North. Sources said the Browns have done extensive work on the native of nearby Mentor, Ohio (about a half hour from Cleveland). The Browns had scouts in attendance at his game Saturday and have tracked him very closely.
Oh man! If the FO feels that he has the potential to truly become a "franchise" QB, then you better take him at #1 because San Fran and the Bears are drafting (in all likelihood) right behind you. Having said that, there is no way I would pick any QB this year with the #1 pick. Yes, we need to resolve the QB issue, but our defence must be addressed often and early. Take Allen or Garrett with the #1 and see who slips to our Phiily pick, or go CB/S with the second 1st rounder and grab your QB on Day 2...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
Hue and the Harvard Boys might not like to hear Joe Thomas speak out but I say it's about time that ownership of the decisions made in the offseason be identified and discussed.
Someone needs to tell Sashi we do care about wins and loses I mean I'm sick of losing!!!
To be fair, he said they aren't 'focused' on wins and losses. Poor choice of words, no doubt. But not the same as not caring.
I think that comment got taken a little out of context. I took it to mean that they are not focused on wins and losses as part of their evaluation of the plan and where it's headed.
What exactly are they focused on? Winning is what it's all about. How can you say a plan is working if you ignore the fact that you lose every game?
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
hearing from all of the players is just going to breed a dysfunctional locker room...better to keep that stuff said in house.
101...I do not believe in the politically correct BS that NFL teams attempt to establish as the way things should be handled...never criticize the front office or the owner.
What I find interesting...all this crap about Mack not wanting to be here in Cleveland...why would JT criticize the front office for not resigning Mack if there was never a chance for the Harvard Boys to sign him?
Mack wanted to paid for what he was...the best center in the NFL...and "the boys" were convinced that Cam Erving could step right in at center and we would never miss Alex Mack.
The moneyball boys were wrong and the players know it. Joe Thomas is full of frustration and not afraid to break the unwritten rule about criticizing management.
It needs to come out and needs to be discussed or the same idiotic crap will be repeated again by the owner and his moneyballers.
Hell, it would be better if Haslam and Depodesta, Sashi and Berry manned up and admitted, THEY SCREWED UP.
I think it is safe to say, the inexperience of the front office is beginning to show.
hearing from all of the players is just going to breed a dysfunctional locker room...better to keep that stuff said in house.
101...I do not believe in the politically correct BS that NFL teams attempt to establish as the way things should be handled...never criticize the front office or the owner.
What I find interesting...all this crap about Mack not wanting to be here in Cleveland...why would JT criticize the front office for not resigning Mack if there was never a chance for the Harvard Boys to sign him?
Mack wanted to paid for what he was...the best center in the NFL...and "the boys" were convinced that Cam Erving could step right in at center and we would never miss Alex Mack.
The moneyball boys were wrong and the players know it. Joe Thomas is full of frustration and not afraid to break the unwritten rule about criticizing management.
It needs to come out and needs to be discussed or the same idiotic crap will be repeated again by the owner and his moneyballers.
Hell, it would be better if Haslam and Depodesta, Sashi and Berry manned up and admitted, THEY SCREWED UP.
I think it is safe to say, the inexperience of the front office is beginning to show.
I think you miss interpreted what I was trying to convey.
I think if you need to voice your opinion on the state of things. Then that should be done behind closed doors. not a good look to be doing that, using the medium he did.
Last edited by dawgpound101; 11/21/1608:00 PM.
I bet you're wondering the samething I did, why O' why didn't I take the...blue pill
I hated seeing us let Schwartz go. last year I took a tron of abuse for saying that I thought that Schwartz was one of, if not the best RT in the NFL. When he left, many people said it was no big deal. I said it was a disaster. The one guy, out of our free agents, who I felt we could least afford to lose, was Schwartz. (and I felt that Mack was gone from the word go, so I didn't blame the front office for that one)
Man, think about this ..... we could have had Greco slide to Center, and have Pasztur go to Guard, and our OL would be a whole lot better than it is with Erving at Center and Pasztur out of position at RT.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I agree w/101 that it's not a good idea for the players to be bad-mouthing the FO and coaching staff.
Joe gets a pass, but that's it.
I think that Joe may have decided that a trade might not be the worst thing in the world this coming off-season. That's just me reading his language and body language lately. Maybe he's decided to start speaking up more, in hopes of making the front office take steps to improve the team in every way possible. Who knows? I know that it sure seems that he is irritated and frustrated.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I don't think you took too much abuse for liking Schwartz. Most people wanted to keep him. There was even a thread about him and Mack in the K-9 Consensus forum that proves that point.
I hated seeing us let Schwartz go. last year I took a tron of abuse for saying that I thought that Schwartz was one of, if not the best RT in the NFL. When he left, many people said it was no big deal. I said it was a disaster. The one guy, out of our free agents, who I felt we could least afford to lose, was Schwartz. (and I felt that Mack was gone from the word go, so I didn't blame the front office for that one)
Man, think about this ..... we could have had Greco slide to Center, and have Pasztur go to Guard, and our OL would be a whole lot better than it is with Erving at Center and Pasztur out of position at RT.
Admittedly, I was never a Schwartz fan. Every time I watched the guy, it seemed like he was getting beat in pass protection. Now the guy was a good run blocker.
The bigger hit was seeing Mack go. He was one of the best at the position. We miss him so bad especially with all the injuries and Cam, who is just awful.
Congratulations to our 2016 NBA Champion CLEVELAND CAVALIERS!!! Greatest comeback in sports history... Hail to the King!
The great QB guru and the Moneyball group: 1-15 Record of Criminal Haslam owned Browns: 20-60 (0.250)
I think the vast majority of poster were upset that Schwartz and Mack did not stick around. Myself and a few other were less concerned about.
the fact that we were first in rushing the ball up until Bitiono went down/ the NE game. tells me what I need to know about that topic, still not concerned they are gone. would it be cool if they stayed? sure, but not going to lose any sleep over it.
I bet you're wondering the samething I did, why O' why didn't I take the...blue pill
hearing from all of the players is just going to breed a dysfunctional locker room...better to keep that stuff said in house.
101...I do not believe in the politically correct BS that NFL teams attempt to establish as the way things should be handled...never criticize the front office or the owner.
What I find interesting...all this crap about Mack not wanting to be here in Cleveland...why would JT criticize the front office for not resigning Mack if there was never a chance for the Harvard Boys to sign him?
Mack wanted to paid for what he was...the best center in the NFL...and "the boys" were convinced that Cam Erving could step right in at center and we would never miss Alex Mack.
The moneyball boys were wrong and the players know it. Joe Thomas is full of frustration and not afraid to break the unwritten rule about criticizing management.
It needs to come out and needs to be discussed or the same idiotic crap will be repeated again by the owner and his moneyballers.
Hell, it would be better if Haslam and Depodesta, Sashi and Berry manned up and admitted, THEY SCREWED UP.
I think it is safe to say, the inexperience of the front office is beginning to show.
I think you miss interpreted what I was trying to convey.
I think if you need to voice your opinion on the state of things. Then that should be done behind closed doors. not a good look to be doing that, using the medium he did.
101...no, I didn't misinterpret anything..I stated my opinion.
I commend any players for telling the truth and if there are some in the front office unhappy with that, then the front office has yet another problem..they want everyone to lie for them.
The Harvard Boys have proven that they suck at analyzing offensive line talent and QB talent and now there should be no more argument about who was responsible for the OLine decisions.
Not a thing wrong with telling the truth with the doors wide open.
These are the type of players you build a football team around. I hope that the Harvard boys find a way to plug these "basic qualities" into the complex analytics formulas they use to draft players.
I saw the word "stronger" and immediately thought of Nassib. I think he's basically got no strength right now. He gets stonewalled and has no other recourse. He needs to gain strength and the ability to bull rush
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
My questions as well, Swish. What kind of grades. One year is a red flag for me. Hope he has skills. We need at least one QB this draft. We seem to talk ourselves out of quality and trading down for more picks which is theoretically OK, but with our talent pickers, not good.
Step away from the koolaid for this one. Get better. Browns, heal thyselves.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
I saw the word "stronger" and immediately thought of Nassib. I think he's basically got no strength right now. He gets stonewalled and has no other recourse. He needs to gain strength and the ability to bull rush
4Life...yep, you can see that Nassib has nothing for those experienced veteran like Marcus Gilbert, 6-6, 330lbs...Gilbert dominated Nassib, 6-7, 273lbs (listed).
If Nassib is going to become anything in the NFL, he must improve his strength and speed. I do believe he has the attitude and desire to be "something" other than average.
The Steelers do their best to apply BIGGER, STRONGER, FASTER when they look for players to draft...guys like QB, Rothlisberger, 6-5, 240...Le'Veon Bell was listed as 6-2, 240 when drafted...LT, Villanueva, 6-9, 320(-340), was an Army Ranger, who was determined to pursue dream of playing in the NFL. The Steelers signed in Jan 2015 and moved him to LT, where he gained 90lbs and became the full time starter at LT for the Steelers this season
When the Steelers needed a yard or two at the goal line, they ran Bell over the LT.
Bigger, stronger, faster, tougher and smarter is not a bunch of BS. Most NFL teams include these qualities when evaluating players in the draft...but I'm not sure if the Browns front office with their analytics value these basic qualities.
hearing from all of the players is just going to breed a dysfunctional locker room...better to keep that stuff said in house.
101...I do not believe in the politically correct BS that NFL teams attempt to establish as the way things should be handled...never criticize the front office or the owner.
What I find interesting...all this crap about Mack not wanting to be here in Cleveland...why would JT criticize the front office for not resigning Mack if there was never a chance for the Harvard Boys to sign him?
Mack wanted to paid for what he was...the best center in the NFL...and "the boys" were convinced that Cam Erving could step right in at center and we would never miss Alex Mack.
The moneyball boys were wrong and the players know it. Joe Thomas is full of frustration and not afraid to break the unwritten rule about criticizing management.
It needs to come out and needs to be discussed or the same idiotic crap will be repeated again by the owner and his moneyballers.
Hell, it would be better if Haslam and Depodesta, Sashi and Berry manned up and admitted, THEY SCREWED UP.
I think it is safe to say, the inexperience of the front office is beginning to show.
I think you miss interpreted what I was trying to convey.
I think if you need to voice your opinion on the state of things. Then that should be done behind closed doors. not a good look to be doing that, using the medium he did.
101...no, I didn't misinterpret anything..I stated my opinion.
I commend any players for telling the truth and if there are some in the front office unhappy with that, then the front office has yet another problem..they want everyone to lie for them.
The Harvard Boys have proven that they suck at analyzing offensive line talent and QB talent and now there should be no more argument about who was responsible for the OLine decisions.
Not a thing wrong with telling the truth with the doors wide open.
Yep you have no agenda whatsoever and would never stoop to calling grown men boys to paint the picture you are selling to the rest of us.
Every game we play, we look slower, smaller, weaker than our opponent. And that isn't just this year. It's been every year since the return.
I see players getting drafted by other teams who I think are too small. A year or 2 later and they are noticeably bigger. I don't think I can think of one Browns player that I have noticed getting bigger and stronger while on the Browns.
What is wrong with our strength and conditioning staffs over the years?
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
Especially on defense...guys, we have pretty much zero veteran leadership.
Look how many rookies/2nd year players we have.
All over the team. We basically fielded a bunch of college kids out there, and now everybody is pissed at Hue for what?
That's not on hue, that's on the FO.
Look at the teams around the league. They have their first round rookies playing along side veterans. Guys who have seen it all. They can learn from that.
Our team has to figure it out pretty much all on their own.
Patience please.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
The front office provides the talent, the coaching staff then tries develop that talent.
Hue has made his mistakes and misjudgments, but he had little to do with setting draft priorities and strategies, based on analytics.
I have a very hard time believing that Hue would draft Cody Kessler over Dak Prescott...the difference in talent was so obvious. Someone over Hue (Depo, Sash or Haslam) told Hue that he could not draft Prescott.
The only change I want to see is the addition of an experienced football evaluator added to the draft team.
Also, it's up to Hue to evaluate his coaching staff and if changes need to be made, he should decide, not the front office.
Every game we play, we look slower, smaller, weaker than our opponent. And that isn't just this year. It's been every year since the return.
jester...you are right, you can see it with our offensive line and with our RBs. I see it when the Browns attempt to run the ball on a 3rd and 1...the offensive line gets crushed and our RB is usually stoned at the LOS.
Why don't the Browns have a big back on the roster, capable of getting a yard?
Why don't the Browns have a center who stops penetration in middle instead of getting his butt pushed back in the face of the QB?
It all comes down to the "front office priorities"...the type of players their analytics tell them who should be drafted. Just one problem...BASEBALL IS NOT THE SAME AS FOOTBALL.
Also, let's not overlook the other "obvious" concern of the Browns front office..."MONEY"...
The MONEYBALLERS are cheap, taking the cheapest option in most cases. What does CHEAP get you in the NFL?...an 0-11 season on Nov 20, 2016.
The front office will not admit it, but $$$ are plugged into their formulas and $$$ carry weight when it comes to deciding who stays on the roster and who goes.
Leading the NFL in cap space and fielding an offensive line that is the worst in the NFL, kind of sums up just what the front office priorities were once the Harvard boys were hired by Haslam in Jan.
There is so much wrong with this franchise...I don't know where you begin, in an attempt to improve the Browns.
...and if this crap doesn't get fixed, we will see another repeat performance next season.
you have to remember those two...Mack and Schwartz were his best friends on the team. He would say nothing but praises with both. Mack is a great center that is for sure. Schwartz is ok-to-good. Actually Pasztor is getting statistically many of the same numbers Schwartz got. He has improved...btw where did Shwartz go and how is he doing there?
We lost a lot of continuity when we lost Mack and Schwartz...trying to compare to this UNIT after they have been together for games not Years and mostly with Mack at Center making the line calls. Made a difference. I don't see the drop off at RT that great to lament about individually...the loss of continuity and Mack making the calls was great!
Let these guys build an OL. I have not been impressed with our OL coach. Our blocking Schemes does not look good. Letting our RBs block one on one with the opponents premier Pass Rushers was just dumb...the RBs got square up to those pass rushers only to get totally pushed backwards especially when the pass rushers had a running start right at them and out weighed the RBs by 20-30 lbs. at the least. And we kept doing it??? I see a lot of teams struggle with the edge rushers but they usually have a TE right there to meet them before they get a running start to their goal. No clue why we didn't use a TE to help instead of relying on the RB to pick the DEs or OLBs who got a complete full head of steam. Just stupid. Didn't like it at all. jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
hearing from all of the players is just going to breed a dysfunctional locker room...better to keep that stuff said in house.
101...I do not believe in the politically correct BS that NFL teams attempt to establish as the way things should be handled...never criticize the front office or the owner.
What I find interesting...all this crap about Mack not wanting to be here in Cleveland...why would JT criticize the front office for not resigning Mack if there was never a chance for the Harvard Boys to sign him?
Mack wanted to paid for what he was...the best center in the NFL...and "the boys" were convinced that Cam Erving could step right in at center and we would never miss Alex Mack.
The moneyball boys were wrong and the players know it. Joe Thomas is full of frustration and not afraid to break the unwritten rule about criticizing management.
It needs to come out and needs to be discussed or the same idiotic crap will be repeated again by the owner and his moneyballers.
Hell, it would be better if Haslam and Depodesta, Sashi and Berry manned up and admitted, THEY SCREWED UP.
I think it is safe to say, the inexperience of the front office is beginning to show.
I think you miss interpreted what I was trying to convey.
I think if you need to voice your opinion on the state of things. Then that should be done behind closed doors. not a good look to be doing that, using the medium he did.
101...no, I didn't misinterpret anything..I stated my opinion.
I commend any players for telling the truth and if there are some in the front office unhappy with that, then the front office has yet another problem..they want everyone to lie for them.
The Harvard Boys have proven that they suck at analyzing offensive line talent and QB talent and now there should be no more argument about who was responsible for the OLine decisions.
Not a thing wrong with telling the truth with the doors wide open.
mac...if the FO men are so bad at identifying talent on the O-line, then why were leading the league in rushing 6 straight weeks before Bitiono went down for the year?
So you are also saying that any player should jump on tv and slam the FO and HC? then pat them on the back for being "truthful" bringing it all to light?
When players do that on other teams they are called a "cancer" in the locker room. but you seem to think that it would be a welcome relief when players do that here...something wrong with that line of thinking...
don't get me wrong you can believe whatever it is that suits your fancy, I'm just not buying it.
Mack didn't want to be here end of story..non issue for me...not worth a discussion.
moneyball? you throw that term around a lot, not sure you fully understand what that really means...being cheap and being frugal are two completely different things altogether.
Last edited by dawgpound101; 11/22/1601:16 PM.
I bet you're wondering the samething I did, why O' why didn't I take the...blue pill
