Looks like The Harvard Boys found an apologist writer, willing to write up a bunch of crap and excuses for all the mistakes and misjudgments they have made.
AND, Browns fans are just too dumb to realize ALL THAT HAS HAPPENED during the 2016 season, is just part of "THE PLAN", the Harvard Boys came up with...you believe that, don't you?
The Boys are starting to run for cover, falling back on the excuse that they planned all this, rather than admitting that they made some terrible misjudgments.
It is the fans fault for not understanding THE PLAN, that these super smart Harvard educated, front office "elites", came up with.
The only thing The Boys have proven to me is, they know how to screw a football team up..how to take a bad team and make it the worst team in the NFL...but they have no clue how to fix what they screwed up.
This idea that this was all part of their plan...TOTAL BS!
In the very beginning we were told this was going to be a total rebuild. You may not like some of the move, I may not like some of the moves, but the building really hasn't started yet.
Nobody wants to be 0-16, but 4-12 really isn't all that much better. We have been stuck on 4-5 wins for nearly 20 years now, going through one football guy after another.
As the article says, if you simply don't believe the plan can work, there really isn't much else for you to say. You said the same things 3000 times. OK....cool, you don't think it can work.
The record at this time isn't a result of the plan. The results have yet to be seen. What we are seeing is a part of the process.
Have a Happy Thanksgiving.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Marla Ridenour: Sashi Brown’s refusal to admit quarterback mistakes in 2016 draft doesn’t bode well for Browns’ future
By Marla Ridenour Beacon Journal sports columnist November 15, 2016 - 09:42 AM link
BEREA: If he had to do it all over again, Sashi Brown would still trade the No. 2 pick instead of drafting quarterback Carson Wentz.
Even with the Philadelphia Eagles’ Wentz having won five more games than Brown’s Browns. Even with an 0-10 record staring the executive vice president of football operations in the face.
I walked into a glass-enclosed conference room in Berea on Monday hoping Brown would give me reason to have more faith in those heading the most important draft of the expansion era, and arguably in franchise history, next April.
I walked out exasperated that even with Wentz and Ezekiel Elliott and Dak Prescott taking the NFL by storm, nothing will change in the “systems and processes” the Browns use to evaluate prospects.
I walked out wondering how Brown can be so confident that among the Browns’ 19 rookies, 12 of them draft picks, is a core of young talent to build around when at the moment Corey Coleman looks like the lone game-changer.
I guess I wanted emotion from Brown. I wanted evidence that he feels the fans’ pain and embarrassment. There was plenty of angst from the questioners, many of them Northeast Ohio natives. The best example came 27 minutes into the 37-minute session.
“Do you guys acknowledge that Wentz and Prescott are the real deal and you blew it? Are you still thinking you’re right on this?” one media member asked.
It was the question that those who buy tickets as the franchise continues to flounder wanted to pose and came with the incredulity they share.
Brown responded: “I wouldn’t look at it as a Prescott and Wentz decision. What we did was go out and draft Cody [Kessler] and bring in a number of players and position ourselves for the next draft. We’re pleased with the decision we made and we stand by those.”
As much as I’d like it to, that inspires little hope. Especially with pro-style pocket passers dwindling by the year, the draft filled with read-option quarterbacks who may be forced to switch positions in the pros.
Even though USC product Kessler was taken in the third round, the Cowboys’ Prescott from Mississippi State in the fourth and the Browns still searching for a franchise quarterback, Brown oozed optimism. He didn’t show the weight of the team’s 0-10 record.
Asked in the Browns’ collaborative front-office effort how responsible he feels for that, he said: “I think we all bear responsibility for that, a tremendous amount. We all inherit a roster or what have you, but we’re not into excuse-making. So we own that. That’s our record.” (The inheriting a roster comment sounded like a sly reminder that former General Manager Ray Farmer got the Browns into this mess.)
Speaking in front of television cameras later, Brown explained why he can’t slip into ‘Woe is me’ mode like the team’s fan base.
“I wish we had a magic wand that we could wave and change our fate, but you can’t do that,” Brown said. “The most important thing about my job is not to take those short cuts and to put this franchise on the path towards sustaining winning for a long period of time. I can’t get caught up in my personal emotions because when you do that, I think you end up making those short emotional decisions.”
Perhaps in keeping an even keel, Brown is that “strong, credible leader” owner Jimmy Haslam has long been seeking. Perhaps the system the Browns are using to rebuild will work. Brown said coach Hue Jackson’s job is safe, which would be a major step toward continuity. (Of course, that’s not Brown’s decision to make, especially if the Haslams go looking for 0-16 scapegoats.)
I see a rookie quarterback who can’t throw deep, a third-round offensive lineman that can’t get on the field despite a rash of injuries, receivers chosen in the fourth and fifth rounds who have contributed virtually nothing. I see no pass rush, a secondary in a shambles, 13 players on injury lists and an offensive line that needed more attention in the 2016 draft and free agency.
The plan Brown laid out — change the culture, develop a core of young talent, maintain continuity — sounded solid. But with Dak and Zeke and Wentz the talk of the league, the second point looks like it will continue to be the stumbling block.
There is nothing for Sashi to admit...at least not yet anyway. Maybe we need to see what else we do with the players we will get instead of Wentz. There will be several and a few in the early parts of the draft. Wentz could be Big Ben or Blake Bortles...Kessler could be Colt McCoy or Drew Brees...no one knows yet. No one.
The title to her article is like asking someone: "Do you still beat your dog?"
I am getting a good laugh out of people who are so shocked at where we are...I thought we'd win two games...winning zero or one won't change what I expected from the start of the year.
I'm surprised at only two things:
#1) The number of injuries we have had;
#2) Pryor is waaaaaaaay better than I thought he'd be and he is still learning the position.
Nothing else is a surprise to me...nothing else makes me more/less of a denier or believer in/of the process.
I'd rather be 0-16 with a bunch of young guys, a ton of cap space and a bunch of draft picks in my future, than 5-11 with a bunch of old guys who have peaked or worse.
It's going to take time...that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. It may or may not work, no one knows at this point. It's not that hard.
after reading the ridenauer column i think one theory has at least some credibility. we hired a head coach who has a reputation as a "quarterback guru", a "quarterback whisperer". it defies all logic and common sense that we would do that, have that coach in the draft room say he wanted to build his team around wentz and have the guys who hired him who have minimal experience with player selection tell that coach to stuff his choice where the sun don't shine. if that coach in round three says this Prescott kid is the qb he wants to build his team around, no way they tell him sorry but we like Kessler from usc.
Both of those scenarios make no sense. You may not like their inexperience but they are not stupid people and that would be stupid. Therefore, I think it makes perfect sense that Hue made our qb decision in the draft. If so it is reasonable to believe the response in the article is based upon an unwillingness to lay it all at our coach's feet.
Now I was not in the war room and cannot say with absolute certainty how it went down but neither can anyone else. Despite the certainty some people attribute the draft decisions to the "Harvard Boys", none of them know that their scenario took place either.
ballpeen, i think that intuitively that makes complete sense. the theory that the "Harvard Boys" overruled our new coach on his quarterback choice requires one to twist logic into a pretzel.
I walked into a glass-enclosed conference room in Berea on Monday hoping Brown would give me reason to have more faith in those heading the most important draft of the expansion era, and arguably in franchise history, next April.
I walked out exasperated that even with Wentz and Ezekiel Elliott and Dak Prescott taking the NFL by storm, nothing will change in the “systems and processes” the Browns use to evaluate prospects.
I walked out wondering how Brown can be so confident that among the Browns’ 19 rookies, 12 of them draft picks, is a core of young talent to build around when at the moment Corey Coleman looks like the lone game-changer.
I guess I wanted emotion from Brown. I wanted evidence that he feels the fans’ pain and embarrassment. There was plenty of angst from the questioners, many of them Northeast Ohio natives. The best example came 27 minutes into the 37-minute session.
So, did she expect him to say "we blew it, our draft picks stink, and dang, we messed up by not taking Dak or Wentz"? We have a roster full of rookies, a struggling QB who is in concussion protocol, and a new HC trying to keep a positive locker room.
Without getting into a FO stinks 'discussions, she ends with this
Quote:
The plan Brown laid out — change the culture, develop a core of young talent, maintain continuity — sounded solid. But with Dak and Zeke and Wentz the talk of the league, the second point looks like it will continue to be the stumbling block.
The second point she makes in that statement is "develop a core of young talent" ...does not development take time? I don't have the stats but how many of the great QB's sat and learned and developed over time and had rough patches and years?
Change the culture...I'm thinking the plan was to go young and hungry. If you say culture culture change precedes development, that means attitude before results, but how do you do that? If wins changes cultures, then so does losing so it would seem to reason that culture change needs to happen outside of wins and losses? maybe?
I read a somewhere where it takes 4 games for a DC to have enough tape to effectively gameplay against a QB...I think that may be why Went's numbers are down (if they are?). It looks like Dak is a rare but then what I read is with that line and a running game, he has the best chance to succeed right away.
Anyway, I get all the woes and heaping on the Browns' - we have earned it for sure. But still ....
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." [Mark Twain]
ballpeen, i think that intuitively that makes complete sense. the theory that the "Harvard Boys" overruled our new coach on his quarterback choice requires one to twist logic into a pretzel.
Welcome to the board. Soon enough you will notice we have some pretzel makers around here.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Brown responded: “I wouldn’t look at it as a Prescott and Wentz decision. What we did was go out and draft Cody [Kessler] and bring in a number of players and position ourselves for the next draft. We’re pleased with the decision we made and we stand by those.”
He is beginning to sound like his arrogance is proving to translate to ignorance.
I think it's going to work because of what I am noticing from the team.
First, overall I liked who we drafted. I wasn't huge on Kessler, but I have to admit that he looks better than I thought he would ever look in his first year. I still don't think he is the answer, but maybe Hue will prove me wrong. The guy that wasn't supposed to touch the ball this year at all has already made a good case at being a back-up QB in the future. Coleman is a keeper and we'll notice that more in the next couple of weeks when there is a QB throwing to him that can take advantage of his speed. I think Ogbah is a keeper as well and will continue to improve. I think Pryor shocked everyone on how quickly that he converted a real threat at WR. And I think everyone was shocked that we were able to get Jamie Collins for peanuts.
We stripped the team down to bare bones and perhaps we went a little farther than I thought that we would, but because we did that, a lot of what should be our depth in the future got some valuable playing time and experience.
Haslam seems to be supporting both the FO and the Head Coach despite the fact that we are in Cleveland and fans and media are usually for someone's head by week four and this year is no exception. This is crucial because blowing it up and starting over is something that we normally do way too early.
We have four new pieces to build with that are young and promising.
I would make the trade of Karlos Dansby for Jamie Collins heads up any day and be happy.
I would have traded any of our WR's last year for Pryor or Coleman this year and be happy.
I would have traded Kruger for Ogbah heads up and be happy.
There are more picks in this draft that we are going to hit on later as well. Every rookie has his own pace. I am expecting at least two more out of this last draft to be keepers as well and maybe 3 or 4.
That will put us around at least 6 players acquired in one year that will have a positive impact on the team.
We also have two drafts worth of picks in the upcoming draft and most likely the first overall pick. If we can manage 6 more guys that improve the team in that draft, that is replacing half of your starters in two years.
We should also be able to sign some FA's this year because we shouldn't be worried about losing comp picks. I don't expect us to go nuts and sign any huge contracts, but I do expect us to sign some younger guys that will help the team.
I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but right up until the NE game when teams figured out Cody and the injury to Bitonio, this offense looked pretty powerful with a bunch of rookies and rotating chairs every week at both QB and o-line. Sign me up to see what Hue can do with this offense once he gets more pieces in place.
Everyone knew this was going to be painful transition to start and most predictions before the season started were 0, 1, or 2 wins. It's only when everyone has to go through the pain that they knew they were going to have to go through ahead of time, that they suddenly forget that we knew this is going to happen.
If between the first two rounds of the draft and FA we wind up with a combination of the following:
RT, QB, EDGE, FS, CB
then this will be a drastically improved team.
While the upcoming draft does not appear deep at QB, it does appear to be deep at the other four positions. I am not expecting Super Bowl next year so if we don't find the QB, but do find the other spots, I'll be happy. We will eventually find a hit at QB and if the team is already built around him before he gets here, then even better for him.
Just my long rambling two cents but in my opinion more productive than calling for the pitchforks in the middle of year one in a rebuild.
I think a big key is how closely we stick to building through the draft, or rather, ignore free agency.
No doubt I believe in building through the draft. That said, I don't think you can scrap the idea of signing a few plug and play veterans. Trading for the first crack at Collins was a good first step. It at least shows we are willing to go beyond the bounds of the draft. Now we just have to sign him. Even if we can't, we threw the dice, showing we aren't simply going to wait on all rookies to grow up.
A couple of key signings will make a big difference. It will narrow the focus of the draft. It's far easier to make correct decisions and just draft good players rather than having to draft a position because you need people at the position. We saw that last year. We had no idea that Pryor would play as well as he has, so we drafted Coleman. Coleman was a good pick. The problem is we still had question marks and ended up 3 more receivers which was a waste of resources IMO, but I understand why we did it.
My hope is we sign a decent plug and play O-lineman. Then there will be less pressure to draft several O linemen in the draft. I'd still like to see one draft in round 2, possibly round 1, depending how the draft falls and who falls to that Eagles pick. I just don't want to see us have to draft another 2-3 between rounds 3-5. This is a deep draft for secondary help. We can find secondary help in those rounds.
This next draft is possibly the most critical draft in Browns history. We embarked on this plan, and now have a ton of high picks. Say 7 picks. We have to make those picks count. We are in real trouble if we continue to bring in guys named Cam or Mingo. Of those 7 picks, we need 5 of them to turn in to really good players. If that happens, this journey might continue. If not, it will be back to the drawing board in 2-3 years.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Brown responded: “I wouldn’t look at it as a Prescott and Wentz decision. What we did was go out and draft Cody [Kessler] and bring in a number of players and position ourselves for the next draft. We’re pleased with the decision we made and we stand by those.”
He is beginning to sound like his arrogance is proving to translate to ignorance.
vers...Obviously, the Browns front office is not going to talk about their glaring mistakes and misjudgments...to pass on two potential franchise QBs in the draft in favor of their drafting of an undersized, weak armed, career backup who was projected as the 10th to 15th best QB in the draft.
To admit to their misjudgments would require an individual who places a high value on their own integrity and honesty..someone who places a high value on telling the truth. I do not see those qualities being exhibited by this front office...Depodesta, Sashi and the Haslams.
It is at times like these that you find out what kind of people are running the show, here in Cleveland.
Brown responded: “I wouldn’t look at it as a Prescott and Wentz decision. What we did was go out and draft Cody [Kessler] and bring in a number of players and position ourselves for the next draft. We’re pleased with the decision we made and we stand by those.”
He is beginning to sound like his arrogance is proving to translate to ignorance.
vers...Obviously, the Browns front office is not going to talk about their glaring mistakes and misjudgments...to pass on two potential franchise QBs in the draft in favor of their drafting of an undersized, weak armed, career backup who was projected as the 10th to 15th best QB in the draft.
To admit to their misjudgments would require [color:#33CC00]an individual who places a high value on their own integrity and honesty..someone who places a high value on telling the truth. I do not see those qualities being exhibited by this front office...Depodesta, Sashi and the Haslams.
It is at times like these that you find out what kind of people are running the show, here in Cleveland. [/color]
Not content to merely challenge their football knowledge, now you have to resort to character assassination?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
Hot...you might be right...why would anyone expect an honest answer from those running this franchise. It's much easier for some fans to choke down the lies and say "oh well".
it is too bad that you surround some perfectly valid criticisms with perfectly ridiculous statements. we had no shot at goff. and I do not know anyone who thought Prescott was a franchise quarterback. if they did he would have gone way, way before round 4. to suggest that he was considered a franchise quarterback is just plain not true. Monday morning quarterbacking is just so danged easy.
this was not a reply to vambo, it is too Mac. rookie mistake.
Not content to merely challenge their football knowledge, now you have to resort to character assassination?
Four recent posts were all about assassinating mac's character, but not a peep out of you.
There are a lot of good people on this board and it's like therapy, but there are a handful that ruin the board. Their constant personal attacks make the board worse. Yet, people just let them slide.
Slam mac for his opinions on the FO, but let these handful of guys continue to slam mac and a couple of other posters.
not sure what your definition of "recent" is, but i looked back thru this page and could not find any character assassinating going on. lots of disagreeing but no assassinating.
Not content to merely challenge their football knowledge, now you have to resort to character assassination?
Four recent posts were all about assassinating mac's character, but not a peep out of you.
There are a lot of good people on this board and it's like therapy, but there are a handful that ruin the board. Their constant personal attacks make the board worse. Yet, people just let them slide.
Slam mac for his opinions on the FO, but let these handful of guys continue to slam mac and a couple of other posters.
I expect that you are sufficiently intelligent to differentiate between an attack on a person's character versus a person's opinion/posts. Please point out the four to me as I am too ill at the moment to be bothered...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
At least one was deleted by the mods, if that tells you anything. Calling someone a liar is also a character attack. And then having another person ask the same question again is the same thing.
I had a long post that laid that experience out for you and you ignored it because it doesn't fit what you are selling everyone.
dep...that would be the post where you attempted to lump the experience of scouts in with the front office/Hararvd Boys...
The only thing I'm selling is the truth...the Browns franchise is being run by the most inexperienced front office in the NFL..and it shows with the 0-11 record.
No and I don't know where you're getting that from. We're saying the VP of Player Personnel and the scouts do have experience. Mac is saying the FO has no experience because he simply includes two people under the definition of what the front office is, and it is those two people who are evaluating players. Myself, and a few others, are saying, fundamentally, that is incorrect.
Experience exists in this FO because this FO includes scouts, newly ones brought on as well as some that have been with the Browns for years. But that doesn't automatically mean that is a good thing either.
Now, if you want to amend your previous pages of posts to say that the lack of experience is simply because you think DePodesta and Sashi are calling ALL the shots when drafting college players or deciding on NFL free agents, then the debate can progress from there and we can narrow the discussion points. But the "Front Office" has plenty of people with experience in scouting and evaluating players.
No and I don't know where you're getting that from. We're saying the VP of Player Personnel and the scouts do have experience. Mac is saying the FO has no experience because he simply includes two people under the definition of what the front office is, and it is those two people who are evaluating players. Myself, and a few others, are saying, fundamentally, that is incorrect.
Experience exists in this FO because this FO includes scouts, newly ones brought on as well as some that have been with the Browns for years. But that doesn't automatically mean that is a good thing either.
I mentioned it because it seems people are getting on mac a lot because he said our FO lacks experience and earlier, many of you said that Sashi couldn't be blamed for earlier transgressions because he was not in charge and he had to do what Farmer wanted. It seems a bit odd that it works one way one time and another in the next situation.
Personally, I am not going to make a big deal about the experience the FO has, but I think it is pretty hard to deny that the top guys do indeed lack experience. That may---or may not--turn out to be a factor.
No and I don't know where you're getting that from. We're saying the VP of Player Personnel and the scouts do have experience. Mac is saying the FO has no experience because he simply includes two people under the definition of what the front office is, and it is those two people who are evaluating players. Myself, and a few others, are saying, fundamentally, that is incorrect.
Experience exists in this FO because this FO includes scouts, newly ones brought on as well as some that have been with the Browns for years. But that doesn't automatically mean that is a good thing either.
I mentioned it because it seems people are getting on mac a lot because he said our FO lacks experience and earlier, many of you said that Sashi couldn't be blamed for earlier transgressions because he was not in charge and he had to do what Farmer wanted. It seems a bit odd that it works one way one time and another in the next situation.
Personally, I am not going to make a big deal about the experience the FO has, but I think it is pretty hard to deny that the top guys do indeed lack experience. That may---or may not--turn out to be a factor.
People are getting on mac for several things, but as it pertains to my recent comments to him, it's specifically about what he deems the FO to be, and how he justifies using the term "experience" as it relates to the FO.
If he thinks Sashi and DePo are calling all the shots and only deferring to analytics and those what two want to do, then yes, lack of experience in selecting players would be an issue. I don't think that is the case. We actually have a robust scouting department, with experience (not that different from other past regimes), that is a piece of our entire FO. Again, experience in our FO, which we do have, doesn't ultimately mean we'll be successful. But I don't believe Sashi and DePo are calling all the shots. I think Sashi has the final say if there is a stalemate with a player(s). I think DePo's charged with using his past analytics background to hone in on certain stats, predictors, etc....But I think the top tier pool of players the FO likes will come from scouting, being managed by Andrew Berry. I think there are many pieces to determining what players they like, however, if a tie breaker is needed for a lack of a better term, that person is Sashi Brown.
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