DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season 2017 NFL Draft Mitch Trubisky

Your post got me thinking...

I think draft prediction is a myth.
I think draft prognostication is a myth.
I don't think its possible to say much less know what a player will become.
I think all we can do is accurately assess what we know and use those assessments to rank/grade prospects.

i.e. Player X in the 2017 draft is the highest rated at Position X.
Player X ranks overall in the 2017 draft class.
Player X ranks XXth at his position in the past 5 draft classes etc...


Making accurate assessments of a prospects physical skillset and mental makeup (which us arm chair scouts can't) is hard enough without getting into clairvoyance.

jmho

Don't forget to about the other prospects:

Clemson vs South Carolina

ESPN

Nov 26, 7:30 PM

j/c:

I keep liking Mitch more and more. I love how he hangs in the pocket, granted it seems like his offensive line is pretty darn good in pass pro (I do not know how it compares to other teams, though). Most of the stuff I've watched are just cut ups admittedly, but I think he can do it in the NFL.

Allen and Garrett might be safer selections but we've been starved of the most important position in all sports. If the FO thinks he can be the guy....take him and don't look back.

I'd say a perfect scenario would be to draft the aforementioned Allen or Garrett with the first overall and try to trade back up for Mitch, but I don't think trading assets is something this FO is keen on and don't think the teams behind Cleveland are willing to pass on Mitch.

Waiting on the combine might be the correct course of action before deciding that he's the guy. If Garrett turns into Von Miller 2.0 and Trubisky doesn't become a franchise QB, is it worth it?

What is it were going to learn at the combine?

His Wonderlic score, duh..

It basically proves whether or not someone is going to be a HOF QB.

...

...I'm interested to see him talk to Jon Gruden.

Will never forget Gruden talking to Weeden, if you've never seen it, watch it, and realize someone still drafted him in the 1st round.

Oh ... OK ...

Guess when i ask a stupid question I shouldn't expect much In return ...

I like Mitch. Will be interesting to see how his stock will rise/fall over the next few months..

You can learn things at the combine, but IMO most of them are negatives that might drop a guy off your list.

I agree. It's all about the live scouting reports and what is on film on how high up the guy is placed. After that, that is where they stay unless you find some negatives. To me, a player only moves up a slot if someone ahead of him drops below his position.

If a player is not at or near the top of your board shortly after the college season ends, I don't see how he can be at or near the top in April/May for the draft.

Other than maybe bench press, I'd have players at the Combine working out in full uniform. They play in them. I don't care how fast and nimble you are in shorts. I want to see how fast and nimble you are when dressed for a game.

What is a Mitch Trubisky?

He's from Mentor?

Oh, well I guess that makes all the difference.

NO! NO it Doesn't!

But if he's from Mentor it does make all the difference because that's close to Cleveland!!!!

I agree, but in this case, the kid is pretty darn good. If we don't take him at #1....if we have that pick, I doubt he lasts to pick 4.

In some ways us winning a few and getting the 3rd pick would be best. That way we can take him at #3 and not have to be a team to pass on Garrett or Allen. If he is taken, we have one of the two best players in ther draft fall to us.

Having the #1 this year should be a no brainer....except for us with the QB issue still looming.

The importance of the Combine tells me that the NFL is in the Dark Ages of evaluating talent.

And yeah..........analytics reinforce that opinion.

They are tools, but man, way, way too much importance is placed on measurables and on-field performance is often diminished due to these post-season evaluations.

Didn't AL Davis take Hayward-Bey over Crabtree because he ran a faster 40 time?

That is what I have been saying. Evidently you haven't noticed. In the end, since coaches get in on this late in the game, NFL coaches screw up the focus.

J/c

I think you guys are missing the point entirely for why the combine IS important and its got very little to do with 40, bench, and those types of measurables.

Its about the doctors evalutions, the special physical stress tests, the interviews with the players etc.

Don't you guys think thise are important part of evaluation?

They are and I had the same thought, but those parts aren't televised and generally don't propel players way up the Draft board like a 4.2 40.

I think it is a false perception that player stock rises and falls due to a fast/slow 40 times etc. I think those are 'draft media' opinions of players stock rising and falling.

Players actual (non-media) grades are far more likely to change due to physicals/interviews then measurables (which teams pretty much already know)

*Shrugs* I don't understand your point about physicals and interviews not being televised.

Did you see Watson last night?

I know its early but what do you think of Mitch/Watson?

No doubt those are important. Those however don't thrust guys up the charts. They are used to drop guys down or off.

Like I said, that first board, which is based mostly on film and actual scouting reports is probably the most accurate. It's only during silly season that coaches and GMs start falling in love with this player or that and start making stupid mistakes....."We gotta get that guy!"

Set the board, then start dropping them down, or off.

I think talking to them is ... but they all go through 1,000 practice interviews before they get there ... so today, how much u really learning about them ... can u say CANNED ANSWERS? ...

Personally they guys I'm considering .. i'd take out to lunch or dinner ... see how he treats the wait staff, hostesses ... thats much LESS REHEARSED ...

Plus ... me personally .. i'm talking to his coaches, teachers ... people that are around them daily ...

As for doctors ... if i'm that high on them ... i'm going to have my own docs look at them anyhow .. but for cost savings ... its a good idea ...

Unless the guy comes off as a complete bafoon ... i'm not putting much into the combine stuff ...

One of the menza's mentioned the wonderlink (or whatever it is) score ... i don't give a flying U know what how smart a QB is sitting on his ass with a pen and paper answering questions ... i understand U only have a certain amount of time to do it in ... thats not even close to processing info on a football field with bodies flying everywhere ...

The same menza mentioned Gruden's talk .. thats got way more worth to me ... WAY MORE ...

I think it has minimal minimal value to me ... one of my fear with this FO and the MONEYBALL CRAP there going to put way to much value on the date they get from the combine ...

Didn't see Watson yesterday. I was watching Colorado/Utah. Looked like a better match up and I wanted to check out Liufau over a full game to get some of the interaction you lose in cut ups.

I think they are both inconsistent and will need to get better to be successful in the NFL. It's possible for both, but I've seen cause for hesitation. Those meetings/interviews at the combine will be important for both.

For Watson I worry about the natural ability stunting his mental side of the game development.

I'm sure he's probably a hard worker, but he may be overly reliant on his athleticism which won't be as big a factor at the next level.

Athleticism isn't a bad thing, but does he use it as a crutch? That's the question I find myself asking.

I've always been of the opinion that the Mel Kipers of the world set up their boards, and then move everyone around..

And then release mock after mock, which just actually moves people back to where they knew they should go..

Not to mention him and Todd McShay have raised prospects higher because of the prospect's agent.

I agree and I think the above is true for most prospects. To be successful in the NFL college players will have to reach a much higher level of performance. And I believe it goes without saying that the combine will be important but we will not be privy to most important aspects of the combine...meeting, interviews, whiteboard, and physical/doctor exams.

I guess my question was what do you think of them from a physical skillset stand point?


I'm curious why that question would come up? Is it something specific he does or is it a general concern about athletically gifted QBs?

I think they have the physical tools, but QB is the position that most relies on the non-physical. The mental, game management, leadership, and "IT" factor type things are hard to quantify, but I find them kind of lacking from what I've seen. Dak and Wentz had those in spades. Some may just be differing personalities, but it doesn't feel like that is entirely the case. They don't really seem to "pull others into their orbit." I think this is kind of why the failure rate for QBs is fairly high. It's a lot of art as well as science. A lot of the ingredients needed aren't easily measured.

A guy I was in the Navy with is a big Clemson fan, so I've had an eye on Watson for awhile. I'm not sure that he is really getting better with time. He's put on a little weight, but other than that he's basically the same guy he was as a freshman it kind of feels like to me. It kind of feels like his mental refinement hasn't had that much development because the talent has allowed him to succeed without it. It also feels like he is kind of still running Dabo's offense rather than having made it his offense.

I haven't watched as much of Watson this season as in the past, and I'm sure I'll watch more before the draft, so that view may change. This is just my impression at this point in time.

I've cooled on Watson myself, and your statement sums it up. It was perfect....he doesn't seem any different than he was 2 years ago.

Your's and Ballpeen's post got me thinking how was Watson viewed before (assuming he hasn't got any better)

https://www.profootballfocus.com/deshaun-watson-could-be-nations-most-talented-qb/

Just looking back.....



Anyhow it would be an interesting discussion at some point to discuss their physical skillset and observable facets of his game along with Mitch etc.

Anyone catch the Clemson v VA Tech game?

yea, i was watching our future QB win the ACC title.

Yeah and I will be curious to see how many pick 6's Malik Hooker will get against Watson.

Yes sir .. watched with all the Clemson homers ... at the end of the street (its a dead end circle) .. they put a barricade up and roll out the big screen TV ... let the kids all play and watch the game .. this week it was in a garage cause it was raining here .. *L* ..

Best game the OVERRATED one has played all year ..

Started off the 1st Q looking real good ... 2nd Q he sputtered big time .. then he played his best half of the year .. there's a reason for that ...

Did u catch the game? ... if so, why do u think they were unstoppable in the 2nd half .. if u watched it .. it was EVIDENT why they were unstoppable in the 2nd half .. hell it was so obvious even Swish may know why ... *LOL* ...

Doesn't matter.

He's a top QB about to compete in the playoffs. I'll take him over trubusky all day everyday.

Nice!

Interesting....both that you think he's overrated and that you think VA Tech game was Watson's best of the year? Serious question: Did you catch last week's game?

I thought Foster's defense did the best job I've seen against Clemson/passing game all season.
When they started dialing up the pressures in the 2nd qtr Clemson/Watson didn't have good answers for it. I think that is gonna be the blue print Clemson will face going forward. It will be interesting to see what the offensive staff come up. The run game with Watson was there answer this game.

I do not think Clemson was unstoppable in the 2nd half and I don't think it was anywhere close to Watson's best half of the year.

If you have thoughts on the game i'll listen...

Solid reasoning.

Everybody has their own reasoning.

Even though his INT numbers are high, he still has tossed 37 TD's this year. 3900 yards with 500 rushing.

Last year he tossed 35 TD's, 4100 yards and 1100 yards rushing.

And he plays top level competition and going to the playoffs back to back to play the best of the best.

Yea, I'm taking that over a one hit wonder in trubisky. Dude has Blake bortles written all over him.

Ya .. its a good time .. there all younger with kids ranging from 4 - 10 .. they call me Pops .. *L* ..

Watched last weeks game .. circle was split that week .. they had two seperate viewing parties last week .. *L* ...

Last week was against inferior comp .. and this week his one pick was a tipped pass .. he made very few mental mistakes .. he threw one or two others that were bad decisions and could have been picked .. very few "mental" mistakes this week ...

In the 2nd half they called a TON of pure running plays for Watson .. I believe the first 4 or 5 plays were all designed run plays for watson ... that opened everything else up ... especially when they kept doing it ..

I been waiting for that .. i'll bet u see alot more of Watson running against U guys also .. if they somehow beat U .. witch i doubt .. there just not that good ... they'll do the same against Bama ..

He's NOTHING like Bortles .. NOTHING ..... he's accurate and smart ... Bortles not so much ..

Looking at numbers as opposed to watching the games really makes for INFORMED OPINIONS as opposed to BS OPINIONS ...

Before i render an OPINION ... i'm gonna watch the rest of Mitch's ENTIRE GAMES ...

U oughta try watching as opposed to looking at numbers ..

STATS ARE FOR ... well ... u know ....

What are your thoughts on that performance what do you think/like/dislike?

Why do you think he has Blake Bortles written all over him? Is there something about his skillset that you don't like?