DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum RE: The Front Office....continued...

Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
I believe him, at least until his agent gets our offer and another team is offering 3 mil more.



As much as I don't like to say it, at this point it would be stuipd for either guy to sign anything unless the Browns offer a blockbuster deal. Their agents aren't stupid people. The have a pretty good idea where the market sits. Neither one of those guys has been around Cleveland to be offering hometeam discounts unless the wife or kids have become grounded to Cleveland, and I don't see how that is possible at this point.


We might get them signed early, but it won't be at a discount because they are swell guys and know the fans want them signed.

They are looking for a payday.....Show Me the Money.





Diam writes:

Especially when your agent's Drew .. players choose him for a reason ... and its not because there looking to do anyone but their checkbook a favor ...

Will be interesting to see how this pans out ....

Still not sure why everyone wants to give Pryor a boatload of money ... hes a physical specimen not a great WR ... he leaves alot to be desired when it comes to a route runner ...

Will say one thing .. he works his ass off and is a gamer ... there's no question there .. i don't think he's going to be one of those guys that gets paid and then gets lazy ...

Pryor may not have reached "great" status, but he's on pace to finish above 1000yrds, he's been our most reliable WR, and opposing defenses consider him a legit threat.

Pretty good for someone who, as you correctly describe as a novice

Pryor is definitely someone we need to lock up. I think you can tender him a handsome offer, maybe even a little inflated, and be confident he'll carry his end of the deal. If he's been able to accomplish everything he has this season with the carousel at QB, it's only reasonable to believe he'll get better with more consistency behind center.

Collins: that's going to be a tough one. He's going to want to be paid as a defense's top LB... if he continues playing as he has for us, I'd have no problem with that.

Kirksey, Bitonio... lock 'em up. Contractually. Not literally

Hard to reach great status when he just converted to the position, on top of our disrespectful QB situation.

And you're right, he still about to pull out a 1000 yard season.

He could be josh Gordon without the weed problem.

Waiting on your answer to " Who all was in the draft room?"

I am a bit confused.

Since every decision - draft picks, players, coaching, free agents ... all come down to the FO - do we need to get rid of individual posts about players, contracts etc - and post EVERYTHING under "FO continued" ???

I would have thought a meaningful discussion about Pryor and whether to resign him - or rather at what cost to resign him - would merit it's own thread ???

I said it elsewhere - I hope like heck we resign Pryor and Collins and I am more than happy to overpay for both to keep them here.

Taylor Gabriel ??

INSTIGATOR .... *L* ...

not so much for me.

Taylor has 303 yards rec. this year...75 of those came in one game.

let's see he has 17 recp. on 23 targets this year.

that being stated, I do like his speed.

Taylor was odd man out with Hawkins here. But remember when this board was entirely against the midget receivers? Oh how quickly things change.

Gabriel has Ryan throwing him the rock and Julio Jones getting all the attention and has less than 400 yards. Let's not get too crazy...little different than Kessler/McCown. I'll give the guy some credit though, for an NFL midget, he's making some nice plays.

Why does anyone care about Taylor Gabriel? It's not like we traded Babe Ruth to the Yankees.

Gabriel was smart to go to ATL (or they were smart). Either way, he and Shanny have connected.

Sign Pryor and do well by him, not stoopid money, but it will be a litmus test of sorts. We can build around him, and let him improve. Not sure what more I could have asked of him given this QB mess, OL mess, FO mess and so forth. I would start the process, even informally, soon. He is a gamer. Used better in a better place, I think his output goes up. I want that here.

I dunno lamp ... maybe because they kept an aging almost INVISIBLE Andrew Hawkins over a young, quicker, faster version of him in Taylor Gabriel in a year where our goal was to find young, talented players ...

I saw him make a catch three or four weeks ago and was like .. WOW .. who was that .. great hands on a very tough catch .. love how he catches the ball ... who was that? .. sumptin i have yet to say about anyone on our team but Kirksey ... even brought it up in one of the game day threads .. some may remember ...

These guys gutted the roster (witch I have no problem with) and went YOUNG YOUNG and then YOUNGER ... thats our theme ... YOUNG and HOPEFULLY TALENTED .... BUILD FOR THE FUTURE is our mantra ....

Ummm .. Gabriel would be the definition of YOUNG and TALENTED especially in comparison to Hawk ... if u have watched the Falcons at all ... or even saw the highlight of his TD catches or his run yesterday ... his quickness and speed jump off the screen at U ... his change of direction on the 1st TD catch made me dizzy ...

If our FO/Coaches couldn't see the quickness, speed difference between him and Hawk ... what does that say about their ability to judge talent .... they had him for all of th OTA's and all of Training Camp ... how could they not see how much better he was than Hawk ... did i mention how much younger he was than Hawk ...

The talent level's not even close .. NOT EVEN CLOSE ... and he's younger .. if it was a coin toss U go with the younger guy ... the talent difference here isn't EVEN CLOSE ....

And we keep an aging vet over a guy in his 3rd year who over the last 4 weeks has been the BEST slot reciever in football ... and dawgpound .. the stats u presented were DISGUISTING ... and its why i hate them ... u took his stats and DOWNPLAYED them by showing his entire year stats when he was only with the team from 9/4 at best ... witch means he had zero training camp, was learning the playbook on the fly and had never caught a pass from his QB ..

Over the last 4 weeks he has averaged over 80 yards a game and has scored 5 TOUCHDOWNS .. I believe he's scored more TD's over the last 4 weeks than our ENTIRE OFFENSE ....

And ya .. i know he's on a MUCH BETTER O ... its not even close .. guess what ... in 2 years we should be challenging for a playoff spot .... u think guys like Gabriel won't be MISSED THEN ... it seems you guys want to argue that were HORRIBLE NOW and so guys like Zeke and Dak would suck here too ... and they would .. but guess what menzas .. as we build the team around them .. there TALENT would come out ...

In your rush to defend thos FO U want to overlook how speed and quickness and how much YOUNGER he is than Hawk ...

If you actually saw Gabriel play .. the talent jumps off the screen at U ... this dude is not a one hit wonder .. if he can stay healthy .. he's going to be a very good slot reciever for a long time .. WAY LONGER THAN HAWK ...

We can't miss on talent like this .. not if we want to get good .. its one thing to miss on a draft pick .. its and entirely different thing to cut a guy like this is who is clearly the much better, younger football player at this point ...

Maybe lamp, just maybe thats why a few aren't happy with this decision ...

BTW apologists ... he helped them win a football game yesterday .. he played a MAJOR PART in that win ... something we haven't done yet this year ...

No biggie though .. were building for the future ... IMO we let a PIECE OF THE FUTURE GO ..

We let another good young player get away and Taylor was even better off the field and in the community as well.

I saw Taylor Gabriel all over town doing community events while he was here. It seemed to be him, Kirksey, and Robertson at all the events I can remember.

With that said, I recall Gabriel having a pretty crappy season last year. Tons of drops, nowhere to be found on the field, etc. There are other factors involved but he did not help his case to stay around. I think many people thought the decision to keep Hawkins was due to Hue's familiarity to him from the Bengals, but either way, Hawkins has been pretty absent this season. But like many years, poor QB play factors into that.

I'm happy for Gabriel that he'll get paid. Always seemed to be very polite and grounded.

From a money stand point, we should have kept Gabriel. He and Hawkins are identical players, except Gabriel was younger and cheaper. His connection with Hue kept him here.

O well tho. Happy for him.

I think Hawkins because we are VERY young at that position. Possibly Hawk was kept to add a vet to the room.

I figured that either Hawk or Gabriel would be cut w/the new FO bringing in all those rookie WRs.

I think some are forgetting that Gabriel had a pretty good year when Shanny was here. He didn't have a ton of catches, but he had a lot of big plays. Big, big plays that could have been even better had Hoyer made better throws.

Gabriel gives you more explosion than Hawk. Hawk is a guy who works underneath better than TG.

Last year, both suffered w/injuries--------including concussions.

Has Payton or Louis shown anyone anything to make you think they are going to be better than Gabriel?

If I remember right, TG was hurt in OTA's this year also right?
If we had kept him over a proven Hawk then most on here would be questioning why we did. He's having a pretty good year, so good for him, but lets not act like he did that here. He had a down year and then came in hurt and did not play that much. Can not blame the FO for that. I agree that we kept Hawk for the Vet in the WR room, which is a good move.

Mac: Your comments hold no credibility at all. You refuse to answer GM about the draft room, I think your fake and you always run and hide rather than face the music.

4-12

Willie Snead is making plays in NO. We need to fire the idiot coach and GM that let him go. Oh, wait.....we already did.

J/c

U apologists just close your eyes when it comes to this FO and Hue ... BRUTAL ...

Anyone that FARTS tab? ... over the last 4 weeks .... 5 TD's .. our entire O hasn't scored that many ... averaging 80 yards a game ....

Thats not a FART my friend ... thats a DIFFERENCE MAKER that has obviously learned the playbook and has developed some chemistry with his QB and found his role with the team over the last 12 weeks ... he wasn't signed until at least 9/4 .. that was the week of game 1 ...

Does our FO/Hue have eyes? ... he is so much quicker and faster than Hawk it isn't even CLOSE ....

Our MANTRA this year was to find young talent ... Hmmmm ... seems like we let a VERY GOOD YOUNG TALENT GO ...

If you've watched him play .. u can SEE IT unless your blind or clueless or are just UNWILLING to admit this FO's mistakes ....

Like i said ... its one thing to miss on a draft pick ... this staff had him for all of OTA's and TC .. the quickness, speed difference between him and Hawk and quite frankly anyone of our WR's isn't marginal .. its HUGE ...

If they could not see this guys speed/quickness it SCARES the hell out of me ... if it doesn't raise a red flag about their ability to judge/evaluate talent ... i don't know what would ... they saw him every day from July 28th or there abouts until Sept 3rd .. and they COULDN'T SEE what is READILY APPEARANT ... that doesn't SCARE THE HELL OUT OF U????

U call it a highlight clip? .. WOW .... his first TD his SPEED and ability to CHANGE DIRECTION jumps off the screen at U ...

This guys going to be a VERY GOOD SLOT RECIEVER for along time to come ....

And if u want to say he wouldn't be doing that here this year .. your correct ... WIPPIE DOOO ...

Is our goal to plan for this year or for 2 or 3 years down the road .. its CLEAR to us all, its for the long term .. and we just let someone who could be a piece of that FUTURE go ...

U apologists are no better than Mac when it comes to this FO and in this case HUE ... your just on opposite sides of the fence ...

I figure they needed to keep a vet around cuz of all our rookie WRs, as another poster suggested.

Btw, diam, I'm in no big rush to defend the FO, haha, cuz I'm far from certain they know what they're doing.
Gabriel has had a couple nice games but he's just another slot receiver IMO, and is playing on a great offence this season..

Gabriel also had a period where he had a few drops... Think thats when a lot of the we don't need "midget" WR talk started

That's true. It happened last year. He had a concussion or two. Flip kept having Gabriel run crossing routes and he kept getting drilled. He then started dropping passes.

Shanny uses him according to his strengths. Which is on deep routes while another WR is drawing the majority of attention; WR screens; and as a runner.

I rue the day the idiots got involved and made it so Shanny no longer wanted to be in Cleveland. He's the brightest OC in the NFL right now.

If u think he's just another slot reciever ... then so be it .. we'll just have to agree to disagree ...

It only make me question your ability to judge/evaluate talent ... *L* ...

It throws ups a HUGE RED FLAG to me and gives me just one more reason to doubt the MONEYBALLERS ... witch apprearantly we agree on the fact they may be in way over there heads ...

Always enjoy our convo's lamp .. even though we hardly ever agree .. u take my style in stride ... *L* .. take it easy my friend ...

First, I want to take this post and say I was completely wrong about Shanny. I always thought he was pretty smart, but was prone to midseason collapses that would haunt him. 1 season later, I'm wrong.

Second, I want to ask you guys if you have seen Andrew Hawkins do the agility ladder? Do you still want to have Gabriel?

That's a rhetorical question btw. Just poking fun at how some feedback makes us flip positions on issues just like that.

Ya Vers .. u may remember the talk U and I and a few other had about Gabriel about a month or so ago ... remember I asked about him after making a really nice catch down the field and I asked U guys what year he was in and when we let him go .... remember that? ..

Well that was on about a 30 yard throw down the field ... like u said ..

Shanny knows how to use him ... deeper routes and flares and running ...

Also think he could be very good at the short crossing routes where u clear it out .. not like your saying he was used last year ... i'm ASSuming he was being used on the middle crossing routes last year .. please correct me if i'm wrong on what u meant by "crossing routes" last year ...

Also your thoughts on using him on the "short" crossing routes after clearing that "zone" out ...

Waiting on your answer to " Who all was in the draft room?"

And if the situation was reversed, we all would be saying "how did we let Hawkins go and keep Gabriel?". A real QB helps tremendously.

I don't know about using him on crossing routes. I get what you are saying because of his speed, but I have gotten the impression that he doesn't like traffic. Maybe underneath drag routes where you clear the coverage w/vertical routes.

I'm not really sure, though.

Of course, man, You're posts are fun reads!

Ya .. the underneath drag routes is what i was talking about ... as u well know i'm not a very good speller .. *L* ... also not articulate with the football verbiage at times ... although I'm better with that than i am the spelling .... not a high bar to clear ... *L* ...

I bring that up cause i remember the year before we got Hawk he had a "great" year in Cinci and I remember him catching one or two "drag" routes across the middle a game and turning them into big gains cause no one could catch him .. I liked that ... *L* ...

And if anyone can design a play to clear out for the drag routes .... its Shanny with Julio ...

I like my idea .. even if u don't ... *L* ...

People are always upset when players do well elsewhere after leaving here. It was the same with Charles Johnson (WR who went to MIN) He had a few good games but has since faded. They have upside which is why we had them in the 1st place, but over time their warts seem to show up and they drop down depth charts and off teams like they did here.

Sometimes it's injuries and the numbers game that happens. Right place, right time/landing in the best situation matters.