DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum RE: The Front Office....continued...

I thought it was a very thought-provoking article and replied to it extensively. I could have added more, but my response was getting long.

Didn't seem to interest other posters. They would rather just make fun of mac.

Thanks for your response. It partially addressed my questions, so I'll hold off on anything further and await your next post...

Now your posting crap from her from 10 months ago.

"
Beth Walsh
Editor
Email
Twitter
Editor Beth earned a bachelor’s degree in journalism and master’s in health communication. She has worked in hospital, academic and publishing settings over the past 20 years. Beth joined TriMed in 2005, as editor of CMIO and Clinical Innovation + Technology. When not covering all things related to health IT, she spends time with her husband and three children. "

I guess I a done waisting my time with you. You are living in your own made up fantasy world, and I refuse to keep waisting my time on you. You have gone off the deep end bro. I will keep you in my prayers.

Nothing major. Is the front office looking harder at analytics. Hell yes. Are they making decisions based only on analytics HELL NO. Lets say our front office and scouts looked at a guy and gave him a score of 6.5 on a scale of 1-10 and analytices scored the guy at 7.5. Now we have another guy who everybody rated a 6.5 and using analytics he scored a 5.5. DUH they are taking the guy who scored higher using analytics. Some of these umm how do I word this without getting banned.... some of the folks around here that don't know their [censored] in the ground seem to think if using analytics causes a guy to score 8.0 and the scouts score the guy at a 3.0, and another guy scores a 3.0 using analytics but our front office and scouts score him as a 8.0 that we would pass on him. These people have no freaking clue just what the hellis going on and should be listened to just as much as Me or should be as english, and spelling majors.

Now for the 150 percent false rumor that SOMEBODY also keeps floating out there, about all the fired scouts loving Carson Wentz. That's also 110 percent bullcrap. These guys are the types who have a 1 inch male member and swear it's 15 inches long.

I don't understand the issue with analytics.

The 40 yard dash? analytics
Prospects height&weight? analytics
How high and far they jump? Yes anyalytics

These guys are looking for a better more efficacious way to use the numbers.

I agree 100% .... but unfortunately it's not just people on the board - there is a section of the media that write as if the analytics is the only part - or the majority part of the decision making process.

Depodesta is a member GTN (Greater Talent Network), an outfit that books speakers for a fee up to $20k+.

Link to book Paul Depodesta to speak.
Paul Depodesta

WHY PAUL DEPODESTA IS CAPTIVATING AUDIENCES

Paul offers innovative ways business can capture and apply “big data” to optimize current systems.
Paul challenges organizations to rethink their current business models by asking the naïve question: “If we weren’t already doing it this way, is this the way we would start?”
“Moneyball” methodology has revolutionized all industries—from Wall Street to Fortune 500, government to healthcare.
About
Paul DePodesta has made a career of evaluating, measuring, and assigning value to talent, as documented in Michael Lewis’s book Moneyball: The Art of Winning an Unfair Game. The Moneyball methodology has become a mainstay strategy for business leaders looking for new approaches to overhauling stagnant systems.
Formerly the Vice President of Player Development and Amateur Scouting for the New York Mets, DePodesta in 2015 helped lead the team to the World Series for the first time since 2000. Mets GM Sandy Alderson said DePodesta was a “huge factor” in the Mets’ success.
In January 2016, DePodesta joined the NFL’s Cleveland Browns as Chief Strategy Officer, where he applies a version of the Moneyball methodology to the Browns’ front office, roster, and culture.
DePodesta is also an Assistant Professor of Bioinformatics at the Scripps Translational Sciences Institute.

On field production - analytics.
analyzing player production against good competition vs average/poor competition - analytics
injury history - analytics

OMG - say it aint so..... I guess this is finally proof that he's only part time with the Browns - his heart and commitment is just not there and explains *everything*

Or not . . . .http://www.directsportslink.com/speaker/bill-belichick

First people complain that we hired some baseball guy to help run our team. Now we complain that he's not working here enough...

Analytics looks at EVERYTHING, not just what you posted but height, weight, arm length, hand size, leg length, along with all the combine stats. It also includes production in college. There are way many things that go into it than my simple mind can understand.

Pauls effect on the Browns orginazation goes far beyond just the field on Sundays bro.

And who in the hell cares if he gets 20 grand for speaches. Hell you and I do it here for free. Now if somebody wants to pay either one of us 20K then I am all for it

Safe to say we should read the transcripts.

Agreed

I wanted to keep it to the most basic to demonstrate just how ludicrous having an issue with analytics is.

Will you guys please state your opinions w/out trashing others? Please?

God, so many stupid things are said on this board, yet most of you ignore 99 per cent of it and concentrate on bashing anyone who isn't going ga-ga over the FO.

It's so freaking old.........

They were actually ganna draft Wentz, but Jimmy set the computer they use to make all of the decisions on auto De-Frag.

Your statement's ludicrous ... absolutely ludicrous ...

Were known around the NFL as being pioneers in analytics ... oh boy ... lucky us ... ...

first not sure why it's bothering you that he has his opinion on the matter, that doesn't mirror your opinion. secondly I am pretty sure every team uses analytics to some degree or another.

I believe someone posted an article stating most teams are 70% scouting and 30% analytics. and Depo wants it to be more in the neighborhood of 60% analytics and 40% scouting.

not sure how we are "known" for analytics when it's our first year tilting the scale towards the analytical side.

So he's expressing his opinion when he called someone else's opinion ludicrous and thats OK ... ... then when i call his opinion ludicrous i'm upset cause his opinion doesn't mirror mine ..

Well allrighty then ... *L* ...

U didn't read the article did U ... it was rhetorical question ... cause if u did you'd have a clue where i was coming from about us being the "Guinne pigs" for analytics ...

Go read the article, then maybe you'd understand ... ..

"Guinne pigs"

ok I understand that lol and I can get on board with that...we are tipping the normal scale in favor of analytics...going from 30% to 60% is doubling down on it.

won't lie, makes me a tad nervous

Ahhh progress ... ...

Just breakin your chops on that one pound .. i felt bad the other night cause u seem like a real good dude ... so please son't amke me do it again .... *L* ...

no worries man, had a rough 3 days and felt like arguing. mostly that was me being pissed at something else altogether...my bad. took me a second to realize I brought to the board.

Glad i could help .. *L* ...

I got about as thick a skin as there is .. so i'm the right guy to take it out on ...

Looks like were headed for a good finish here ...

normally I am as well thick skinned..but not always...and yup OT would be frickin cool

Funny thing is, the more mac posts articles about DePo being in such high demand for his smarts and commanding $20k a speech... the more I'm impressed and glad he's on our payroll. He's gotta a helluva resume!

The Browns need to hire a football GM and give him final say over the roster: Mary Kay Cabot


December 01, 2016 at 7:36 PM
link

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns owner Jimmy Haslam has no plans to fire anyone after this season, but if he wants to turn his floundering franchise around, he needs to hire an accomplished football GM -- and give him final say over all personnel decisions.

I'm talking someone with Ozzie Newsome upside. Or John Schneider (Seahawks) or Steve Keim (Cardinals). I'm talking someone who started in the 20/20 Club and has worked his way up through the ranks of a personnel department, most likely sitting in the No. 2 position now.

The 20/20 Club includes personnel guys who started out in their 20s making $20,000 a year and did it for the love of the game. They froze and sweated their tails off in stadiums from coast to coast and wrote scouting reports until their hands were stiff and their eyes bleary. But they've learned the nuances of every position and they know if a cornerback can backpedal or a receiver can high-point the ball. What's more, they have sources on almost every college campus for inside info on a player.

Those things can't be found on a computer database.

The problem is, in order to attract a GM of that caliber -- one who's not only an eagle-eye scout but a gifted negotiator -- the Browns will have to offer final say over all personnel moves, including the draft. No NFL team is going to part with a top talent unless he's got that authority.

That would mean stripping that responsibility from Executive Vice President of Football Operations Sashi Brown, who's had it less than a year. But why not promote Brown to President and let him oversee the whole operation? A graduate of Harvard Law School, his background is as a legal counsel and salary-cap administrator. He's great at negotiating contracts and running the business side. But then hand the keys to the personnel castle to a football GM, because it's not Brown's area of expertise.

Hue Jackson -- who's trying to win with minimal talent -- recently acknowledged that Brown "leans on me a lot when it comes to a lot of those things. ... He's a lawyer, but I also respect that you start someplace and you work at it.''

Problem is, the Browns don't have time for their top personnel man to learn on the job. They've lost 30 of their last 33 games and are losing their fan base. They've got another boatload of picks in April and fistfuls of cash, and they can't afford more setbacks.

No one can fault Haslam for the innovative, analytics-based front office, but there's no evidence it's working in its current form. In fact, there's data to the contrary -- the Browns' 0-12 record and a lackluster 2016 draft class. He assembled a team of brilliant Harvard-educated executives, including Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta and Vice President of Player Personnel Andrew Berry, and it could be the start of something big. Berry will probably make an amazing GM someday. But none has ever run a football team, and the top two, Brown and DePodesta, aren't football guys in the traditional sense.

Jackson insisted -- and perhaps even believed -- that this was a rebooting campaign. But it's actually the most ambitious rebuild I can ever remember in the NFL, and it's taking an enormous emotional toll on him. If they didn't knock it out of the park on this draft, what's to say they will in 2017 -- when the stakes and the picks are even higher?

Of the 14 draft picks in 2016, only the top two, Corey Coleman and Emmanuel Ogbah, seem to have star potential, with the emphasis on potential. Coleman gets a pass this year because he missed six games with a broken hand. But he must stay healthy, and at 5-foot-11, 185 pounds, that will be tough, especially given his injury history. He'll need multiple Pro Bowls over the next few years to live up to his No. 15 overall status.

Meanwhile, former Ohio State receiver Michael Thomas, picked 47th overall, is lighting it up for the Saints, with 65 catches for 789 yards and seven TDs. What's more, he's 6-3, 212 and built for the rugged AFC North.

The Browns may have also set the QB position back for years by passing on Carson Wentz, Dak Prescott and even Paxton Lynch. Granted, 31 other teams overlooked Prescott, but 31 other teams weren't desperate for a starting quarterback. Yes, Prescott had a DUI two months before the draft. But the Cowboys dug deep and received rave reviews from everyone.

Like the Cowboys, the Browns had their sights set on a diamond-in-the-rough QB in the middle rounds, but it was Cody Kessler and not Prescott. Given Jackson's infatuation with dual-threat quarterbacks, it would seem Prescott would've been more his style. Which begs the question: Is the personnel staff giving him what he wants and needs?

That's not to say Kessler can't become the long-term answer. He's exceeded expectations under trying circumstances and shown potential. But at least some in the organization believe he's more of a solid backup than a franchise quarterback.

This also isn't to say that you can't show progress at 0-12. You can if you've unearthed the cornerstones of your team. But right now, I see Terrelle Pryor and maybe Jamie Collins, and both are set to be free agents after this season.

When the Raiders started 0-10 in 2014, they knew they had their franchise QB in rookie Derek Carr and a franchise pass rusher in rookie Khalil Mack -- both of whom the Browns could've drafted that year. They were able to withstand 0-10 because of the light at the end of the tunnel, and they won three of their last six games. Carr is 9-2 this season and Mack is a superstar, with 15 sacks last year and nine through 11 games this season.

The Browns have no such stars except Pryor to hang their hats on as they head into the off-season, and there's little hope unless they find their franchise QB. They're not only hurtling toward 0-16, they're about to land the No. 1 overall pick. Is there any evidence they can find the right QB there or elsewhere? They also have the Eagles' first-round pick from the Wentz tradeaway, which would be No. 12 if the draft were today. They'll also have four picks in about the first 47 and about 12 overall.

If they don't improve their track record in a hurry, the 2016 and 2017 drafts could be monumental setbacks. What's more, despite their desire to build through the draft, they'll now have to supplement the roster with at least five quality free agents this offseason to make up for this year.

They let go of veterans such as right tackle Mitchell Schwartz and receiver Taylor Gabriel, who's starring for the Falcons. Meanwhile, their three non-Coleman rookie receivers have combined for 23 receptions and no TDs.

I've asked around the league for names of some of the up-and-coming GM candidates, and there are plenty. They include Eliot Wolf of the Packers, Dan Morgan of the Seahawks, Adam Peters of the Broncos, Scott Pioli of the Falcons, Terry McDonough of the Cardinals, Lionel Vital of the Cowboys, and Chris Polian of the Jaguars. That's only the beginning.

Personally, I'd hire someone who's worked forever in the scouting department of a multiple Super Bowl-champion such as the Ravens or the Patriots and is next in line to run a team.

Haslam doesn't have to blow this thing up after the season. He's on the right track. He just needs to fill the gaping hole at the top of his personnel department -- with an accomplished football guy.

Eliot Wolf is the son of Ron Wolf and is an up-and-comer for the Pack. Here is a brief article:

Here is an article on McDonough:

Terry McDonough has what it takes to be NFL GM, says GM brother
Jan 1, 2016
Josh Weinfuss
ESPN Staff Writer

Really disappointed in Mary Cay.

You don't need superstars to be a winning ball club. You need consistency. You need guys who are dependable. You need guys who execute the game plan at a high level.

Philly tried going the super star route a few years back in 2011, and fell flat on their face trying to get guys like Nnamdi, Asante Samuels, Mike Vick, Desean Jackson, Lesean McCoy, and others, and they went 0.500.

No front office is perfect. This one gets criticized because we are the bottom feeder team of the league, and everyone wants things to just turn around with the snap of a finger.

I've said this before, outside of the Cody Kessler pick (all Hue), they drafted solid guys who played well on the collegiate level. Give it time.

We say this time and time again, build a team through the draft. We've accumulated a ton of guys via last years draft, they are getting good experience on the field. Thats a good thing, regardless of the result. It's something to build on. Another draft coming up, we've got some good picks, and we will get better.

Only thing I want this regime to nail is the QB situation. Problem is, you need an oline to properly evaluate, otherwise they'll be on IR for most of the season. smh.

Get quality experienced free agents on the oline, and build the rest through the draft, and I think we'll progress nicely.

You went back to 2011 for your example.

What about Tom Brady? Von Miller? Richard Sherman, Early Thomas, Russel Wilson, and Marshawn Lynch? What about Big Ben and Antonio Brown? Having superstars is not a bad thing.

You also mentioned the OL. Well, who let two very good offensive linemen to walk in free agency?

I don't know why it would be a problem to have a guy w/football experience as the GM, while allowing Sashi to handle the financial side of the business?

This article was a hot-button issue yesterday in the Cleveland sports talk world. Personally, I disagree with pretty much all of it was well. The people that have been talking about staying the course and not changing the plan are now calling to infuse a pretty big ripple into the plan.

Andrew Berry is the football guy. Whether that ends up being the right decision or not, he is the person that is essentially what MKC wants to bring in or give more control to.

I say NO to MKC's argument. I think it's as impulsive a position as Jimmy's general demeanor towards regimes. I don't know if this regime is going to work out but hiring a GM to be placed in-between Andrew Berry and Sashi, while taking away roster calls, could cause damage.

BTW, I'm all about the traditional GM model. Give him complete control of the roster and drafts and limit coaching influence in draft picks. I'M ALL ABOUT THAT. But we've started this approach and should see it through. It that fails and we blow it up, I'm fine with the traditional GM model.

For those that agree with MKC's position but hate the fact Jimmy Haslem changes his mind all the time and hires/fires on impluse may need to reevaluate their stance.

Now....the only way I guess I would be somewhat ok with this is if this call is made by Sashi Brown and not Jimmy Haslem. But that would be tough to know.

I guess I am one of those "people" that you are trying to paint in a negative light.

I have said that I don't think anyone should be fired. I still maintain that position.

I have said that the plan has inherent flaws. I still maintain that position.

I have said that the plan needs tweaked a bit. I still maintain that position.

I am not talking about you as "people". I am talking about people in the media that are changing their stance. I've read countless articles criticizing the Browns about changing all the time. We're not even done with the first season and MKC wants to change a significant piece.

I'm not all too concerned about your position one way or the other. I am talking about the media's approach on this topic. I think it's contradictory and inconsistent.

Memphis, honestly, outside of a few crackpot blogger types, I've not heard anyone in the media call for the firing of anyone. Maybe I just missed it, dunno for sure.

Who in the media is calling for firing of anyone?

I'm not saying firing. I'm saying simply changing it up. Period. Nothing more.

I, personally, don't want it to change. Not because I believe in what their doing necessarily, but because this group clearly has a plan they're executing and I want to see what happens with it. Not sure if it will work, but changing it up now may cause more long-term damage with the people here.

Don't GMs like their own HC? What would happen to Hue?
What would giving a GM roster power do to Sashi's tenure here?
What if a GM isn't as high on analytics as this groups seems to be? Will there be another freaking power struggle here...again?

When Banner/Lombardi hired Pettine and were subsequently fired, the combo of Farmer and Pettine were, for a lack of a better word, forced to work together. That clearly didn't pan out. I don't think philosophies were aligned and that was a problem from the word go. Which is why if Haslem feels like making a move, we could see something similar happen again. Now, if Sashi does it, it may not be a big of a deal because, presumably, the hire would be in-line with the current plan. Still, I'm not a fan and I doubt Sashi would give up roster power.

I'd rather just see this current group out. If it fails, blow it all up.

I went to 2011 bc on paper that team was supposed to be the greatest ever. Can't remember the last time a team was so hyped in the off season for the moves that the front office had made. They were in the media EVERY hour EVERY day, and it did NOT pan out. Never said you can't have superstars, but I wouldn't go into a situation saying you absolutely need as many as possible to succeed.

And of all the players you mentioned, they have all had one thing in common during their careers. Consistency in the front office and coaching staff. Who would of thunk it. lol. Not to mention, most of those guys were not considered "superstars" by week 13 of their rookie year, so for Mary Cay to say that Coleman and Ogbah are the only guys in our draft class who look like superstars kind of irks me.

And the Browns let one offensive lineman go. Not two. Mack did not want to be a Cleveland Brown. He was not going to return to Cleveland under any circumstances.

I really, really wish you guys would stop stating opinion as fact.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/pa...RZHsm5zc2Rvm.99

This quote has always stuck with me and it's been a part of many articles since he's been hired. It's when the Haslems asked DePo what he wanted from ownership. I think it's applicable now more than ever. That's not to say this thing is going to work, but I want to see this through and not change up the plan. Full steam ahead.