DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Nice start for Trump

Diam, I'm not trying to be a jerk when I say this, but what do you mean in regards to unions? I'm confused as to what specifically you're asking for.

If 600,000 Mexican adults would stop crossing the border every year and stay there and work and fight for better working conditions, they wouldn't need to work the kids. Then their labor costs would go up, we could be more competitive. And people here could take those jobs they aren't here to take...

It's like a win-win-win...

I expected a billionaire to help the rich, but this is scary. If he is going to be giving out a lot of corporate welfare deals like this, we the middle class are screwed.

I'll say that may be a little simplified. Nurses are buried under massive amounts of documentation. Most of any given day is spent developing plans of care (pain management plans, wound care plans, safety and general care plans), implementing those plans, then documenting the outcomes, reporting the outcomes to doctors and families, then documenting those interactions. Unfortunately I spend far more time on the documentation side of care than I do actually at my patient's side.
Yes, CNAs do the 'dirty work', bathing, incontinence care, feeding... though I am not above doing any of those things. My hands are often busy doing things I won't describe here. With that said the CNAs are our backbone, our laborers. Such is the life of the less educated. (Not meant to be said in a condicending way.)

They were repressed? ... how so? .. a few examples of this repression would sure go along way to helping me understand what u mean .. before i respond i need to have a clear understaning of what it is i'm responding to ...

Minimum wage and child labor laws are not controlled by unions .... not sure who has the child labor laws .. the feds or the states ...

Minimum wage laws are controlled by the governors and mayors ... its no coincidence that the states and cities in liberal control are raising it ...

Let me guess ... u think thats a good thing ...

I know for a fact it isn't working out in NY as it's cost us .... oops .. i mean them ... *LOL* ... jobs ... NY has lost alot of jobs all ready ..... 5 or 6 major corps or part of corps all ready have left for greener pastures ... and the law just went into affect in NY this year ... its going to get worse .. i have two buds in the restaurant/bar industry ... they both have no clue what's going to happen when the wage takes its next bump ... last one doubled there front end costs ...

One example is Verizon and there call centers .. they had two of them with around 1,000 employees in NY ... had a few other located in minimum wage states .. guess what ... THERE ALL MOVING TO NON-MINUMUM WAGE STATES ...

And thats just one example ... many many more ...

How's the restaurant business doing in Seattle? ...

LOVE TO ANSWER your other questions ... will take them one at time .. so once were through with this discussion ... we can move on to the next couple questions ...

I will adresss your questions in order of when u asked them ...

Lets see if u want to actually have a discussion ...

Whats your major in school? ...

The actual answer is that the standard and cost of living is way less than it is in the USA.

And for the record, I think your an ass only 94% of the time,, no need for you to exaggerate LOL

I can't post right now, Trump is about to speak!

What is wrong with this deal?

Uh, all those jobs that were saved are middle class jobs.

Where are the non-minimum wage states?

Stop arguing for organized labor before someone thinks you're a lib. But I really don't think it's that simple. Economics do not operate in a vacuum.

I know the Toledo plant, warehouse, and production, are all in the union.

But for example, certifies, supervisors, and others are not.

I just took a merchandiser position. So I will be leaving the union.

U know what i meant ...

Let me guess .. your not going to answer my questions ...

SHOCKER!!!

So production and warehouse are union ... i would assume your drivers are also union? ..

Whats a certie? ...

Congrats on getting the merchandiser position ... good luck with that ... its a tough job as I'm sure u well know ...

Is your goal to get into sales? ...

Certifier*

Guy who makes sure all the right stuff is going into the truck.

I believe the drivers are also Union.

My goal, was to get the hell out of the warehouse. Eventually I would like to get into management.

I think I answered most of your questions in another recent response to Eve. As to why hospice? It's a really interesting time in people's lives. I worked as a 'curative' nurse for 8 years prior to hospice. There's no way for me to help anyone that isn't a nurse fully understand the weight you carry as a a curative nurse. Everyone under your care is relying on you for their well being. That social 'burden' is massively heavy. It's exhausting. Every day is a dance to provide great care yet living in constant fear that a wrong move and you can lose it all...your career can end instantly. Everything falls on the nurses. They/we take the fall when things go wrong. Corporate pays the fine, doctors write a plan of correction, nurses get fired or lose their license. It's scary. With hospice I don't live in fear of the unknown. The prognosis is known. My job now is to make my patients comfortable in that process. That task is much easier. Still challenging, but easier.
That and I love caring for the elderly. It's an honor.

This isn't anything new - look at what happened a few years ago in our city. Bob Evan's corporate moved to New Albany because of tax breaks. This is nothing new - Jeep stayed in Toledo because of the same reason. It's not like Trump invented this, but I think you know that already as you're a smart guy

No, it does not. It is funny how many people act like it does. If we raise taxes by XX%, we will have $Y more revenue.... Um, no you won't. Business will find a way around it, that's what they do.

My business/econ prof in college used this example in class, on his desk sat a decent size block of wood and a decent size water balloon... he picked up the block of wood and said that basically people treat the economy like this big block of wood, with this notion that if you just hit it with the saw, shave off 1/4" for yourself that what happens is that you still have a very nice block of wood, and you got your chunk of it... he went on to say, that's not how it works. He then picked up the water balloon and said if I try to squeeze off my own 1/4" of this water balloon, I'm left with nothing, while the water just forced its way out the other side of my hand. That, he said, is how it works. If you squeeze in one place, it tightens up there but expands in another.. if you squeeze it too hard, it breaks (this was his metaphor for moving overseas)... yes, even back in the 80's that was a topic of discussion.

Well in trumps on words... he was going to stop corps from going overseas, not give them tax breaks to stay.

I think its different giving tax breaks so a corporation won't move to another city rather then moving out of the country. If the corporation moves to another city, then that new city will get those jobs. Both of those local communities will be affected good for the new city and bad for the old city, but the jobs still stay here which is good for our country but when a corporation moves to another country those jobs are gone and it will affect our country. Why should we give tax breaks to them? They have how much money in government contracts? 6 billion? Why not figure away to use that as leverage, ban their company from getting future government contracts , I bet they will change their tune.

People can't complaint about welfare and poor people, when we give huge tax breaks to billion dollar corporations.

DC
The issue with this deal is every big corporation can use this deal as a leverage to lower their tax bill, increasing corporate welfare, making the 1% richer while the middle class will get poorer.

Well to be fair, he's not even the President yet. It would literally be impossible for him to have put anything in place to persuade companies to not leave or to stop them. The only reason he was able to pull this off was because Pence still has the authority in Indiana.


I don't see it as all that different, states compete with each other just like nations do. It's not the governor of South Carolina's job to let factories go to Washington state, it's her job to build the economy of South Carolina, even if it is at the expense of Washington state. (Boeing reference) Just like it is the federal governments job to work with the states to figure out how to compete with Mexico and other nations that are seeking to take business opportunities from us.

All of this talk of allowing companies to move in and out of states but not move out of the country sounds a lot like ... nationalism.. are you for nationalism?


Sure they can. even if you give a big tax break to a huge corporation, they still move the economy, they provide jobs, people pay payroll taxes, they generate sales taxes, they create homebuilding, school construction, etc. The trickle down (yea, I said that word) through an economy from having big corporations in town is enormous, well beyond just the tax breaks they get off the top.

The poor and the welfare recipients do what exactly to grow the economy? Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to helping the poor but saying that giving tax breaks to keep a big corporation in town verses moving to Mexico and comparing that to giving welfare to the poor are completely different things.. it's as different as those people who compare the national debt to your Visa card balance... two completely different things.

Why would they need to use this deal as leverage? Nike was considering Austin, Tx or Vancouver when Oregon gave them a MASSIVE tax deal to stay.. a deal that makes this Carrier deal look like pocket change...

These large companies have known for quite a while that they have all the leverage in the world to negotiate between states, and to negotiate between nations... Trump/Pence's deal with Carrier is a small blip on the radar of what companies already knew they had.

I watched Trumps entire speech from Indiana today and I gotta tell you this President is gonna be so much fun to watch. I just can't wait!

LOL.....nice take.....all he could do is keep "old" jobs.




Nice take!

It comes down to paying taxes, moving 1,000 jobs out of the country will take away people paying payroll taxes, sales taxes, homebuilding, school construction, etc. So moving a plant from Ohio to Texas people will still pay taxes, moving out of the country the corporation is increasing their profit.

I am an American I want whats good for our country so every one paying their fair share of taxes is very important.



I disagree, at the end of the day the government is giving these corporations money at the expense of taxpayers. I have a problem with that.

They could have used leverage in order to prevent them to move overseas, if Carrier decided to move to Texas that would not hurt our country, those 1,000 jobs will be going to another 1,000 americans somewhere else. Carrier gets massive government contracts, banning them will hurt their business, which means Trump had all the leverage but he decided to give tax breaks which benefits a profitable corporation not the hard working middle class taxpayers.

Lets say Coca-cola decided to move their operations from Atlanta to Mexico, that would devastate Atlanta. What should the government do? Should we give them tax breaks for them to stay? Or do we use some type of leverage to force the to stay?

I can see many corporations start to cry wolf to try and get tax breaks.

'What just happened with Carrier is crazy'

https://www.yahoo.com/news/what-just-happened-with-carrier-is-crazy-223106708.html

From 2011 to 2013, the city of Indianapolis and the state of Indiana gave Carrier and an affiliated company $1.7 million in grants and tax incentives, as an inducement to keep two manufacturing plants in the state and bring additional work in. It turned out not to be enough.

Earlier this year, Carrier said it would move those factories to Mexico, eliminating 2,000 jobs and saving $65 million. Indiana and its governor, Mike Pence, demanded most of the tax break money back, and got it.

Then Donald Trump got elected president. Trump had bashed Carrier while campaigning, saying that if he were president, companies wouldn’t get away with such a move. And now, Trump has persuaded Carrier to keep at least half of the 2,000 jobs it planned to outsource in Indiana, a remarkable instance of federal arm-twisting aimed at a single corporation. “Companies are not going to leave the U.S. anymore without consequences,” Trump said while touring the Carrier factory in Indiana.

To reach the deal, Indiana reportedly offered the heating and air conditioning company $7 million in new tax incentives, more than 4 times the previous inducement. So in that regard, Trump may have helped Carrier get a better deal. And there’s no federal commitment—the money will supposedly come from Indiana, courtesy of Hoosier taxpayers.

There’s also the possibility that Trump’s negotiators privately threatened to scale back on contracts awarded to Carrier’s parent company, United Technologies (UTX), a big defense contractor with more than $5 billion in annual revenue from federal contracts. Or, Trump may have promised UT a louder voice in upcoming negotiations over tax cuts and regulatory cutbacks than it might have otherwise had.

The deal is obviously good news for the Carrier workers who get to keep their jobs, but Trump’s intervention in a public company’s business decisions springs all kinds of red flags. For one thing, tax incentives are generally a lousy way to keep jobs, even though many states offer them. One study found that states spent an average of $456,00 per job to lure or keep employers within their boundaries, an amount that raises the question—why not just give the money to workers directly? Another study pointed out that tax breaks are rarely targeted at the young, growing companies that create most new jobs, and instead tend to go to big, established companies that don’t do much new hiring.

Perverse incentives

Tax breaks also create perverse incentives. Companies, for instance, have learned to play one state off another when angling for the best tax deal they can get for a new plant or facility. When the state of Connecticut wouldn’t lower General Electric’s taxes, it decided to move its headquarters to Boston, where it got a much better deal. Companies could do the same thing at the federal level by threatening to move jobs out of the country, to see what Trump might offer them to stay.

Tax incentives that offset the cost of labor also give companies a stronger incentive to substitute automation and other types of technology for labor, as long as they’re not committed to a minimum number of jobs. That way, employers can benefit from tax breaks while still lowering labor costs by replacing people with machines.

It’s also obvious that Trump can’t negotiate tax incentives one-by-one with every company that’s considering offshoring jobs. Republicans have said for decades that the government shouldn’t be in the business of picking winners and losers, and it should stay out of the way instead of trying to influence corporate decision-making. Trump obviously feels differently. A lot of CEOs should probably start to prepare for an unexpected phone call.

The more you hear about this deal and the history prior, the more it's obvious that carrier is literally holding the state of Indiana hostage.

The state, and now federal government have to sell their sounds just to please the corporation.

If the average wage of the 1,000 jobs is $30,000, that's $30,000,000.

$30,000,000/year that circulates through the Indiana economy.

This book says that is good.


(actually, i have no clue what this book says)

When i first read it .. my initial thought was "did Swish write it" .. *L* ...

U prolly like that article cause its like 90% of your posts ...

25% truth ... 75% of the truth left out ... then a bunch of flat out SPIN and BS ...

There's a few facts in there ... but the majority are left out ...

The good news for U i guess .. is that Lurker actually knows less about money and how this works than U .. there's always a bright side if u look hard enough .. *LOL* ...

So, after all that useless drivel, you didn't actually address the topic at hand, nor anything i addressed in my post.

You truly are pointless, and offer nothing of value.

The more I learn about this deal, the more I like it.

Carrier made the decision to move a year and a half ago. They built a factory in Mexico already when Trump called them and still he got it done, saved American jobs, and convinced Carrier to expand their US operations! Carrier is spending a minimum of 16 million to expand and upgrade their plant here.
They asked Trump what they are supposed to do with the plant they built in Mexico and he told them to sell it, rent it, or tear the darned thing down.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
America First!
Trump!

*LOL* .. classic Swish ... you NEVER adress my QUESTIONS ..... EVER ...

If useless drivel is code for the truth .. your right ...

Your the best man ...

Night night Swish ... your officially a WASTE OF TIME ...

Yes, I'm not gonna address a lot of your personal insults.

And yea I am the best. Thanks for the shout out. Peace.

Interesting

'We do feel forgotten': About 1,300 Carrier company employees will still lose their jobs, despite Trump's deal


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/feel-forgotten-1-300-carrier-224937214.html

(Donald Trump at a campaign event in Maine.Sarah Rice/Getty Images)
While hundreds of Carrier employees are celebrating the news that their jobs are staying in Indiana, not everyone in the company's employment was spared.
Carrier's parent company, United Technologies, is still going forward with its plan to close its Huntington, Indiana, plant and outsource 700 jobs to Mexico, according to local media reports.

United originally announced its decision to relocate the Huntington plant, United Technologies Electronic Controls, on the same day in February it revealed the Indianapolis plant's closure.

President-elect Donald Trump spent much of his campaign vowing to keep Carrier jobs in the US, and touted his $7 million incentive deal with United at the Carrier plant in Indianapolis on Thursday.

But employees at the Huntington plant were dismayed to hear they apparently weren't part of the equation.

"His whole campaign was focused on Indy," Huntington plant employee Mike Harmon told ABC2. "I never heard one thing about the Huntington plant. So yeah, we do feel forgotten."

"Everybody's down. Tension's high. Everybody is on everybody," another employee told Indianapolis station WTHR.

In addition to the Huntington closure, 600 Carrier jobs will also still be moving to Mexico, The Wall Street Journal reported.

NOW WATCH: How to move to Canada and become a Canadian citizen



More From Business Insider
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Carrier get's to move 1300 jobs along with the bulk of their mfg facilities out of the country with no tax penalties, plus they get a $700,000+ in tax breaks for doing it.

Yeah ...what could possibly be wrong with this deal?

1300 lose their jobs in Indiana....1100 jobs are safe (for now). Mostly engineering, & admin that can easily be phased out as time goes along while Carrier still collects their welfare checks from the State of Indiana at the cost of Indiana's middle class tax payers.

I wonder which company is next in line for this wonderfully sweet corp. welfare deal Trump & Pence are handing out now?

Wait, Engineering and Admin jobs remain? What's leaving? Blue Collar jobs?

He's SPINNING as usual ....

Its 7 million .. not 700,000 ...

5 mill of that is INCENTIVE based and they have to maintain minimum employment levels over a number of years to get it ....

1 mill in tax breaks for training

I mill in tax breaks to upgrade the facilities ..

The company is dumping 16 mill in facility upgrades ...

The SPINNER has no clue what the #'s are he's talking about ...

His handle should be ..

Perfect Spinner .... *L* ..

I think I figured out what we're in for.

I think Trump wants to be known as the GREATEST president ever.

I'm sure of it.

Good luck on that one.

Going back many years, pretty much every president, R and D has been a proponent of free trade agreements, Hillary was also an advocate of them.. the natural result of free trade agreements is that companies reduce cost by manufacturing where it is the cheapest.. That is why there aren't giant manufacturing plants in Manhattan..

So we all, especially democrats, need to admit one of two things... either you are ok with jobs leaving this country.... or Bill Clinton and Obama and Hillary are all dead wrong.

You cannot advocate for free trade agreements while simultaneously saying that we should just come up with strong arm tactics to keep businesses here that provide them no financial incentive. Because what you are basically saying is, we know eventually you will go bankrupt and we don't care... but at least you will go bankrupt on American soil.... Because we are going to force you to manufacture in the US where costs are high and we expect you to compete with products from other countries that are manufactured at half the cost.... deal with it. Maybe some day Americans will be willing to pay $50 for a shirt when the identical shirt sitting next to it is $30... because that is your only hope of survival.