DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum RE: The Front Office....continued...

That was kind of a rhetorical question, and he answered it in detail. Like it or not, Haslem went all in with these guys and their plan. We're stuck with it until he deems it a failure and blows it up again. I don't want him to bring in another Holmgren as Mac is suggesting. If you bring in somebody with experience that's worth a damn, he's going to want to put his stamp on things.

What's my agenda? I don't care what any prior front office did...I don't care - or remember - who the previous FO's drafted, signed, or released...hell, I don't even remember which players you - or anyone else - pimped along the way. I don't care about that stuff.

Why did you call me out in your post above if you don't want debate from someone with a different opinion? You get to put your label on me without any response? Not gonna happen.

You suggested that the plan could work or it could fail and made several good points. Fair enough...I think pretty-much everyone on this board would agree. You suggested that the plan needs tweaked...again, fair enough. All I'm asking is what would you tweak?

You are a very knowledgeable football poster. When you talk football, I learn something. When you talk X's & O's I don't/can't debate with you because you know considerably more than I do. When you throw out generalities as fact regarding things no one could truly know, I'm going to respond.

You don't want to debate? Fine. My responses to your posts are more often for myself and opinion-sharing with others than they are responses directly to you. I'd like to know what you would tweak...I'd like to know what others think should be tweaked. It is a message board after-all.

Guys like it or not. hate it or love it. I firmly believe that this FO and HC are who we are going to have to quite sometime. Haslam is not stupid by any means. You don't get in life where he is at by being dumb.

I don't want to hear "crook" or "pilot" talk that is a different topic altogether, I am talking strictly business side of it.

Therefor I think that the guy has learned that not blowing it up ever year trying to find the right FO an HC is the right way to do it.

I think he made is his bed for the next five to ten years and that's it.

Other than Hue maybe changing a positional coach here and there I think that's it.

Sashi and company should be learning and "tweaking" their side of things as well. You don't graduate from Harvard a dumb ass.

More complex than my homer mind wants to put into it at the moment...

just my take and my two cents

I hope you are right.

I look at Haslam's trigger finger in a different light. He inherited Shurmur whose teams showed nothing. So change was coming. It's not unusual in those circumstances.

He was shotgun-married to Banner who fired Chud after one year. Maybe Haslam should have said 'no' to that...but that would be considered meddling with his 'man in charge'. You know...new owner overrides GM/President/Lead guy after one year of ownership...we would have never heard the end of that.

During the process of finding a new coach to replace Chud, Haslam saw first-hand the things in Banner he didn't like or want in HIS billion dollar business. So he cut bait. I'm guessing the reasons were more than just leaving the toilet seat up or farting during meetings.

Farmer was well-respected elsewhere and was shotgun-married to Pettine. (If memory serves me correctly.)

Should he have 'stayed the course' with Shurmur? I'd say a big 'NO!' to that one.

Should he have 'stayed the course' with Chud? Maybe, but he let his first 'man in charge' be...you know...in charge.

Should he have stayed the course with Pettine/Farmer? I'd say not after Farmer's drafting, Pettine's O'Neill, and Pettine losing the team...not to mention the disconnect between the PettFarm.

So in summary...Haslam canned what he inherited...canned what he was shotgun-married-to...and canned his first experiment. Does that constitute an itchy trigger finger? Maybe..."he" DID fire a lot of coaches in a short period of time...whether he was justified in that is up for debate. It's certainly reasonable to think he could get itchy again. I think that given the circumstances and the structure of the leadership team AND having finally landed a highly-coveted head coach, it's also reasonable to think he will see this iteration through for awhile.

J/C and many interpretations of the "Plan"...which is starting to sound like "The Fumble" or "the Drive".. - Just kidding but it seems to invoke similar emotions.

Generally speaking, the plan started with a new HC and staff, clearing up a lot more cap space and getting rid of (voluntarily and non-voluntarily) veteran players. Bringing in RGIII to be the starter - and I believe he was expected to be #1 from the get go. Seems like we took a lot of risk on this plan with so many unknown and adding more by letting so many veterans go...

So what does that seem to suggest? They had a veteran QB, a veteran QB (Josh) as a quality backup, and Cody as the QB to developed. Crow and Duke as runners. the draft - at least the first 4 rounds - make some sense from a position standpoint (one the field position). WR / DE / DE / OT / QB / OLB / WR / S / WR. So on paper, we look pretty good before the season - again it at least semi-makes sense. The seems to suggest that they were looking ahead about 3 years or more before it came together.

With little to no FA QB next year and not a generally accepted top- first round QB in the draft, the analytics side would seem to think that RGIII was the only option for a winning QB...so they went all in on RGIII, which proved to be risky and we came up snake eyes.

Without a QB that can stay healthy or take many hits, the future QB role should be what gets tweaked in the plan...no business plan is ever rock solid so the plan can - and should be tweaked - and have 3 to 4 contingency plans as most good business have these days...the base direction does not change but your have to adapt to changing market conditions, something everyone in that room should know and understand.

Hue getting an OC to help manage game day would help IMO...adding a GM? Not sure if that helps like we think it will, except for more of a PR move. If a GM does get added, I'm sure it will be sold as part of the plan and that they were just waiting for that individual to come available

Next year will be where Haslam's' resolve will be tested...Unless RGIII pulls out a miracle season and stays healthy, our next drafted QB may not be until 2018 draft which puts him good in the 2020 season. Not sure what their plan was for QB in 3 years...unless they still plan on taking a QB in first 3 rounds next year?

Without a stud QB onboard, yet, our D and running game are going to have to be stellar, which we can do. TP and Coleman - can we draft a TE - maybe Evan Engram, TE, Ole Miss to help whomever our QB is? Our division has 3 teams that are still in declining mode, so our timing is still there to make a move.

Even with, 4-5 wins next year seem to be where we will be (kinda sad but that actually sounds like a decent improvement)...can Haslam take 3 years without a winning season? Will he cave to the scrutiny and media bashing his methods? The more people you have in the FO the better the chance you have a 'fall guy'

I will say the more I watch Hue and listen to him speak, he has - whether for the better or worse - the ability to make me believe in him and that he is the right guy, he just has that type of believability to me.

watching other teams play this year like Packers/ Vikings / Saints / just show how tough it is to win consistently in this league w/o depth or injuries to the right players. What happened to the Cardinals? Seems like nobody has depth and every team is 1 injury away from .500...

I'm rambling but a lot of good points in this thread by a lot of posters...

Nobody seems to wants a total blowup and nobody wants to start over, which is good - at least we all seem to agree on that!

Look around the league..

Miami, Baltimore, Houston, Washington, Detroit, Tampa..

Are those teams really good? Not at all..

But they all have winning records, and 5 of them are currently slotted to make the playoffs..

It doesn't take much..

Have faith in the FO that put together a team that can't win a single game? No thanks. Then again, I was done with blind faith in the organization years ago. Sashi wants to prove he actually cares about building a winner, then win.

In 1974 Pittsburgh drafted Lynn Swann in the first round, Jack Lambert in the 2nd, John Stallworth in the 4th, and Mike Webster in the 5th.

What choice do we have? (As if "we" have any choice to begin with.) Another tear-down with do-over? Too early for that?

If we had won the Miami game with one of the many missed field goals, would that really change anything? If we eek out a win in the last four, does that really change anything? I don't think it does.

All the teams you mentioned have a QB in place. We do not. That's the difference.

Brock, imo, stinks and ultimately, I believe Houston will regret that contract. They'll compete, though.

You're right, it doesn't matter to the fans, generally speaking. However, you ask the guys in the locker room that are going out there and getting their asses handed to them week in and week out if it matters to them and I'd venture to guess it does.

At some point, after having your body beat to a pulp after putting in all the work your coach requires, doubt will start to creep in. It is this doubt that perpetuates the losing culture that plagues this franchise.

You talk about "tweeking" things.


What would you tweek?



As one said: If you bring in a different view, you muddy the water.


In my view either you stick with it, or you scrap it.

Why has your view of the Browns front office changed? Hey, Mary Kay!


Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
December 04, 2016 at 5:03 AM
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CLEVELAND, Ohio - Hey, Mary Kay!

Hey, Mary Kay: Why have you changed your view on the front office? - Jim, Laurel, Montana


Hey, Jim: I haven't. From day one of this new regime, I've felt the Browns were missing an executive with a track record for drafting good players and who's built or helped build a championship roster. Again, I'm not advocating blowing up the current front office. I'm urging them to add one of the best talent evaluators in the NFL and let him have final say over the roster.

I'm also for making Sashi Brown president of the team and overseeing business and football. Keep Paul DePodesta and Andrew Berry in their current roles. Let Brown and DePodesta hire the GM, one who embraces their analytics bent. I know for a fact there are good candidates who would jump at the chance to slide right into the current structure.
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Hey, Mary Kay: Love your columns and commentary. I do have a question regarding your suggestion that the Browns hire a GM steeped in football knowledge. Given the draft failures over the past years and that those drafts were generally headed up by "experienced GMs,'' what makes you think that the current team cannot do at least as well if not better? Just saying. - Larry, Fresno, Ca.


Hey, Larry: The Browns have not had the type of person I'm advocating. Think Ozzie Newsome, John Schneider, Steve Keim, John Elway and others. Mike Holmgren was a football coach, not a personnel man. Ray Farmer was in over his head and wasn't ready for the GM job. Same with George Kokinis. I'm talking about someone with a well-deserved reputation for drafting Pro Bowl players and quality starters. I believe the Browns can have the best of both worlds -- football and analytics -- and that this can work.
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Hey, Mary Kay: Why can't the Browns bring Peyton Manning into the picking of players to see how he does. Right now we have nothing anyway. - Paul Morabito, Erie, Pa.


Hey, Paul: If Haslam were ever able to lure Manning here, he would have to do what John Elway did and surround himself with guys that have either been GMs or are ready to be GMs, because he hasn't come up through the scouting side. Haslam remains close to Manning and I'm guessing that the topic of working together someday has come up. I don't see Manning fitting into the current structure.
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Hey, Mary Kay: Will you get blowback from the Browns for articles like the one on needing a GM? -- J.Bruce Fox, Vienna, West Va.


Hey, J. Bruce: I haven't yet and I doubt I will. I understand where the Haslams are going with their innovative approach. I think they're on the right track, and they've hired some amazing talent. I just strongly believe there's a pivotal missing piece, and that it would help the entire organization if they add it. I'm proposing a win-win for all involved, including coach Hue Jackson, who needs an experienced personnel man to help supply him with some players.
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Hey, Mary Kay: How many GMs have the Browns had? Mike Holmgren was supposed to be the best. The Browns over the years have had personnel who were football men all. Men who have watched and studied football. Some played the game. Yet not one outstanding draft. Dallas' two 2016 draft picks, QB and RB, were better than the Browns' 14. I've read where scouts were fired because they pushed for their picks who were better the GM's picks. Problem with Browns. Too much power play and in-house fighting in the organization usually between coach and GM and owner.

There are always few in the organization who believe they have the magic touch. So many misses. Why don't you rank the best Brown's GMs to the worst since 1999. I would hire that guy from the Broncos. Denver always has a good and decent draft. Or anybody from Pittsburgh, Dallas or New England's staff. They win all the time. -- Steven Frost, Petersburg, Va.


Hey, Steve: It's not just 'a football man' that the Browns need. It's someone with that proven track record of acquiring talent. Holmgren wasn't that guy. And I'm not saying this group can't get it right. But there's no evidence yet that they can, and it would be a shame to find out after this pivotal off-season that they could've used another pair of eyes. Having said that, if they find their franchise QB, that can cover a lot of ills.
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Hey, Mary Kay: I don't understand how anyone can compare any of the quarterbacks drafted in 2016. Some play on teams with offensive lines and running backs with talent. All of the Browns' quarterbacks are running for their lives the entire game. How can the Browns possibly find a "franchise" player under these circumstances? - Tim, Nuremberg, Germany


Hey, Tim: Great point. It's very difficult to evaluate any of the quarterbacks behind this line. Even if Robert Griffin III starts some of the final four games, it will be tough to get an accurate read on him. The Browns will just have to evaluate them the best they can. I think they have determined they don't have their franchise QB on the roster and that they will leave no stone unturned to find him in the off-season.

For the life of me I don't understand why brining in someone with football knowledge into this FO can somehow be a bad thing ... this is still about football on sundays .. isn't it? .. sometimes i wonder around here ....

U guys do understand its possible to bring in a football guy and not change the plan ... correct? ...

Right now our only football guy is a whopping 28 years old with 7 WHOLE YEARS of football experience .... can someone that age and experience level suceed .... its possible ... but the odds would be much higher with someone with more experience thats been around and SEEN alot more ... there's no replacement for EXPERIENCE ... NONE ...

We'll know alot more about the draft picks after next year ... as of right now I'm NOT IMPRESSED ....

The biggest mistakes they made last year:

1. Letting Schwartz walk .. when he came back, they should have not let him leave .. that was STUPID .. hopefully they learned to be more flexible from that one ...

The rest are in no particular order ..

- not getting more 2nd and 3rd tier FA's ...
- after the trade down to get Coleman .. way to many trade downs to acquire late round picks .. u sacrifice to much quality for quantity ..
- draft so many WR's ... the Louis pick scares me scares me ... his height and athleticism over shadowed the fact his hands SUCK and he can't catch ..
- cutting Gabriel ... the fact they couldn't see his talent throughout and entire training camp SCARES THE CRAP OUT OF ME ... U guys can make up all the BS excuses u want, the fact they kept Hawk over him sends up a MAJOR RED FLAG about their ability to judge talent ... Gabriel's speed and quickness JUMP OFF THE SCREEN AT U ... and he's YOUNG ...

He is the exact type of player were looking for .. its VERY SCARY to me they couldn't see that ...

NICE JOB HUE ...

My plan for this year ....

- re-sign Pryor ... were gonna have to overpay ... so be it ... dude's a JACKASS but he works his ass off .. some trade offs are worth it .. hard worker with talent is a guy u can build around .. although his hands are starting to scare me ... he's had way to many drops the last 2 games ...

This is going to go over like a led balloon but I don't care .. i would not re-sign Collins if he is looking to be one of the top paid LBer's in the league .. he wasn't a team player in NE and after not giving 100% on the Odell play ... you'd be sending out a HORRIBLE MESSAGE to the rest of the team ... and more than likely wasting money ....

- sign 3 or 4 second tier FA's ... IMO were not ready for the "splash" guys .... if were going to do it ... it wouldn't be Collins ...

- not sure what i would do with Crow ... he's been an underachiever since HS ... then in his contract year he finally plays to the talent he has ... Unless we overpay for the guy .. u won't hear much from me ... these guys are around him everyday .. they have a much better feel for who he is ... we have no clue ...

- make our 1st 4 picks .... no trading down this time ... There's not a unit we don't need MAJOR HELP at ... not a single unit on the team ...

Hopefully MONEYBALL takes a backseat to FOOTBALL ...

jc...

The more I read about what has been going on inside the structure of the organization, the more I'm convinced that changes need to be made.

Not major changes, but what I consider minor changes, that would require some to tweak their ego a bit.

Reading one of the stories this week it was mentioned that Sashi was relying on Hue to help him personnel decisions. Below is the excerpt from the article...





IMO, Hue has too much on his plate, trying to do the things he was hired to do plus the added involvement helping other out with their job.

Hue is the HC and OC...that alone is more than enough for many HCs. Given the way Hue's first season has gone, he might want to concentrate more on being a HC and hire someone for the OC job. If Hue is attempting to help out with front office decisions, it points to a obvious need for help in the personnel department.

Sashi needs someone with an office next to his that does nothing but judge football talent. IMO, the Browns are looking at an opportunity to help this group succeed by adding what is missing.

I know some are going to say, what about Andrew Berry? Andrew Berry lacks the necessary experience making personnel decisions to be a reliable source for all the various positions. Berry has only 1 yr of actual scout experience, before moving to a scout coordinator position. His total of 7 yrs scouting is not near enough to be familar with all positions.

Berry was 28 yrs old when the Browns hired him...

The following was written by Berry's head coach at Prinston...




I believe the Browns are expecting too much too soon from Berry and he needs more time to learn from someone who has the experience before he is ready to step into a GM position.

Hiring someone who is experienced and seasoned to handle just the personnel side of the GM job would benefit Berry's progress and in a few years, Berry might be ready to step into the Browns GM job.

Sashi has the business side of the GM job down but lacks in the personnel side of the job. Berry lacks in experience on the personnel job..and the Browns have a need to fill.

Imagine that!

He had less front office experience than Berry does and was successful in his second year!

They really should have got a guy with more experience. They would have had more rings.

You missed the part about FRONT OFFICE experience. Matt Millen was an All American at Penn State and was a Pro-Bowler in the NFL with a 12 year career and still sucked as a GM.

You are being a little generous by counting Haley's part time job as experience, by let's do that to be fair. After all you have been entirely fair to this front office.

So 6 is less than 7 and certainly not that 20 years that you were looking for earlier.

So if 6 years of front office experience is fine by you then you really don't have much to complain about do you?

Of course, Dallas has Jerry Jones as GM and Cincy has Mike Brown, so owning the team can trump playing experience and front office experience.

Nothing trumps a good mudslinging posting experience though, so keep up the good work!

Your constant harassment of mac is beyond old. Talk football once in awhile and stop being a bully.

Browns owner pledges to stay the course at recent full-staff meeting

Jimmy Haslam and his inner circle are preaching stability despite an 0-12 record


Browns ownership, in the face of what could shape up as an 0-16 season, recently held a staff meeting for all team employees to make the case for not making coaching and management changes despite now having lost 30 of their last 33 games. Sources said owner Jimmy Haslam, his wife Dee, coach Hue Jackson, executive vice president Sashi Brown, and analytics chief Paul DePodesta all spoke at the meeting, which was intended to boost morale and make the case for staying the course despite such dire circumstances.

Haslam has been notorious for making annual changes since assuming ownership and, with the team mired in its worst stretch ever and getting precious little contributions from this year's draft class -- the first with Brown in this position -- sources said Haslam blamed past regimes for the team's current predicament. In particular, he pointed to the three drafts prior to this one (which includes one in which the owner himself was deeply involved with the selection of troubled quarterback Johnny Manziel in the first round) as the cause for their problems.

Haslam and the other speakers detailed how well they are working together, sources said, and asked the employees to believe in their vision for getting the franchise back on top. They stressed the need for continuity, claiming they have finally assembled the right collection of decision-makers. Haslam blamed his hires in the past and all the changes he made for causing this spiral and apologized for the mistakes they had made in the 2013-15 drafts.

Of course it remains to be seen if the owner sticks to this plan should the Browns actually fail to win a game this season, with discontent from the fans at an all-time high, with season ticket renewals needing to be sent out (Browns tickets were going for $6 on the secondary market) and with some planning a parade for the team should it indeed go winless.

Numerous executives from other clubs have pointed out how little the Browns are getting thus far from their 2016 draft, how little Haslam has spent on his product (the Browns have by far the lowest payroll in the NFL) and the questionable decisions made to release or allow key players to sign elsewhere as being cause for concern about the current path the team is on.

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I'll try to answer that question, but there are people on the payroll that should know how to tweek things better than I.

First, I think I should begin with why things should be tweaked. Obviously, constant losing can have damaging affects. Attendance goes down. People selling their tickets for as low as $6. Fans not renewing their season tickets. Players not wanting to stay here when their contracts are up. Other free agents not wanting to come here. Players stop believing in the coaches and growing comfortable w/losing.

It's one thing for that to occur this year, but if things are tweaked, next year could magnify the things I just mentioned. What happens after two straight years of monumental losing? We both know that coaches will be sacrificed.

And what does that do to the plan, my friend? It effectively kills it because nothing blows-up a football team more than changing coaching staffs. I think most of us don't want to see guys getting fired. I think most of us want to see continuity. I just think that losing double digit games for two straight years could prove to be fatal to the plan. Thus, that is why I think the plan should be tweaked a bit.

A few things they can do:

--Stop this nonsense of "streamlining" the scouting department. I would hire more scouts and have them not only scout talent, but dig into each player's character. Talk to the players, talk to their coaches, teammates, family members, etc. Be a thorough as you can. I recently posted an article on here that had Gil Brandt talking about NFL scouting departments being underfunded and how it hurts the teams. Yet, the Browns want to spend even less money on that department. I do not think that is wise.

--Draft impact players in the first round and at the top of the second round. Do NOT trade down in the first and second rounds this year. Draft impact players at impact positions and do not try and draft "players we can develop."

--Spend some money in free agency. I am not saying that we need to continue that philosophy, but we desperately need some wins next year. We don't need to spend on the high-priced, big-named guys.......but bring guys in like an Alex Mack, Mitchell Schwartz, and Gipson. I used those three because all are familiar w/them. All three guys are helping their teams. And here is something crazy...did you know Jax was third in pass defense this year?

--In order to properly evaluate the pro talent, we certainly need a guy whose job is to do only that. A Director of Pro Personnel, which is not to be confused w/the collegiate scouting department. Farmer had that role in KC before he came here. We may already have that guy, but if not, we need that position to be filled. We also need to spend the money to properly fund that department.

--Re-sign your key free agents this year. I don't want to hear stuff about how they don't want to be here or how we didn't win any games w/them, so why keep them. Identify the talent and do what you have to do to keep the guys you can build with.

That's all I have, right now. Not a big deal. It isn't blowing things up. Instead, it is about avoiding the fallout of firing coaches when this team loses almost all of their games next year after winning 0-2 games this year.

It's like I used to tell my Math and Science students when their strategy isn't working. Stop beating your head against the wall. Look around. :ook for another way in. Use the door!

I don't think so Vers. Dep. has made many good posts regarding Mac's constant attack on this FO. It's getting real old and so bad I can't even read Mac anymore.

You have some Very good points. Regardless of how this season ends up, this team HAS to avoid an 0-4 start next season. If we don't, I can't see how Haslam won't be pressured or panicked in to doing something. I don't know that it will cause an immediate blow up at that time, but something like that could start to unravel everything leading to another blow up.

I must have missed the post where you were calling for us to draft Dak Prescott because he was such a sure thing. Hue picked our QB. Are you putting us missing out on Dak on Hue's shoulders?

Is there ever a moment in your life where you are not looking for a fight?

There was actually some good discussion going on......and then you returned w/your middle school girl talk.

Even though your post was looking for a fight, BOLDLY, mine was not. It was simply logically stating that if you are upset that we missed out on Dak Prescott like every other team did three times and like Dallas did twice, then you have to put that blame on Hue since that was his choice.

Our QB choice belonged to Hue. You don't seem to like it. You blame the FO and not Hue.

Are you saying the FO is flawed for giving Hue the option to pick his QB?

Yeah, right. Here is my reply to mac when he blamed the FO for drafting Kessler.




This thread was pretty darn good until you returned.

Nah, this thread is just a year long agenda to change the front office in the middle of the first season and it's sucked all along.

I can see why logic might upset you because it keeps getting in the way.

So if missing Dak Prescott in the draft is a reason to change the FO and Hue made the pick...

Is that what you want to change? The QB drafter? We could just "tweak" it though and have Hue run the offense and get someone with more experience to take over the head coaching part of it.

Why Browns' Hue Jackson needed the bye week more than anyone

December 05, 2016 at 3:48 PM
By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio - When Hue Jackson holed up in his office after the Giants game for an extra 30 minutes with Browns Executive Vice President Sashi Brown before addressing the media, it sent up a red flag.
In all my years of covering the Browns, I've never seen that happen, unless heads were about to roll.

That's not in the cards, according to sources, but the Browns can't put Jackson through another season like this.

When he emerged from his office that night, his eyes welled up with tears in his postgame press conference while explaining that "being 0-12 is probably the hardest thing ever.''

Heading into the bye, it was evident the emotional toll this season is taking on him, and it's clear that he's seeking answers from the front office for how things will be different going forward.

As I wrote the other day, the Browns should hire an accomplished GM and give him final say over the roster. But that's unlikely to happen, because it would upset the new order and Brown would not want to relinquish that authority.


Jimmy Haslam has already preached continuity and faith in his top men in a full-staff meeting a couple of weeks ago.

More likely, the Browns will add a veteran consultant to the front office to help with personnel decisions. It's not nearly enough, but something is better than nothing.

As Terry Pluto wrote in his column Sunday, Jimmy and Dee Haslam set up the top brass in such a way that Jackson has the strongest football voice.

If that's true, it's too much to ask of Jackson, especially not in his first year as head coach. The strongest football voice in the organization should belong to the guy with final say over the roster.

Besides, from what I can tell, Jackson didn't have much say in free agency last offseason. If he did, the Browns would've signed former Bengals receiver Marvin Jones, who wanted to play here. By the time the Browns inquired, he already had a deal with Detroit.

The Browns didn't have to be as bad as they are this year, and I don't believe Jackson expected them to be. He signed up for a reboot and got one of the biggest teardowns in the history of the NFL.

It's taken so far down to the studs that former NFL executive Bill Polian described it on ESPN last week as dangerous for the Browns quarterbacks, who are getting injured at an alarming rate, including two concussions in 29 days for rookie Cody Kessler.

But the major difference between a total rebuild in the NFL and the 76ers doing it is about 40 more players with which to restock the roster.

Some of the Browns problems this year can be attributed to injuries in the first two weeks to quarterbacks Robert Griffin III and Josh McCown. But they still didn't have to gut the roster to the point of being in jeopardy of becoming only the second team in the history of the NFL to go 0-16.

Jackson doesn't want that beside his name, and he never envisioned it could be this bad, as stated many times in press conferences. When he took this job, the Browns had a star-studded offensive line featuring Joe Thomas, Joel Bitonio, Alex Mack, John Greco and Mitchell Schwartz. Mack seemed ready for a change of scenery, but Schwartz wanted to stay. Even just keeping him would've made an enormous difference in the pass protection and run-blocking.

Jackson intended to run the ball and protect the quarterback, two things he hasn't been able to do with this line. The Browns are first in the NFL with 45 sacks allowed and 26th in rushing. Of course, the season-ending foot injuries to Bitonio and now Greco haven't helped matters.

As far as Kessler is concerned, I don't think he was Jackson's guy as much as Jackson made it seem on draft day when he said "trust me on this one.''

The Browns were getting hammered for the Carson Wentz tradeaway, and Kessler's apparent overdrafting in the third round drew jeers after an offseason full of Wentz vs. Jared Goff. If Kessler really wasn't Jackson's hand-picked guy, he may have been trying to take some heat off the front office that day.

The Browns also didn't knock it out of the park with their 2016 draft, and will now have to acquire some players in free agency and trades to field a competitive team in 2017. As one NFL executive said to me, "a receiver with the No. 15 overall pick is a luxury, not the pick for a rebuilding team.''

Jackson had a chance to remain in Cincinnati and be the heir apparent to his close friend Marvin Lewis, whom he'll face again on Sunday. But he came here to win, and he planned on doing at least some of that in 2016.

Instead, he's having to stand up in front of his team every Wednesday and get them fired up to win a football game.

"I was his coordinator in Oakland and I was with him in Baltimore and I've always believed in Hue Jackson and I'm so proud of the way he's dealt with this situation because when you're the head coach, that's a lonely seat,'' said senior offensive assistant Al Saunders, who's been part of 15 playoff teams, five division titles and one Super Bowl victory. "You're answering these questions to the general public and that's not as hard as it is to stand up in front of your football team and give them the positive direction and the devotion that he shows in each one of them and what we're trying to do.

"He has a very clear picture of where he wants to go with this football team. He has a very clear picture of what he means to this community and this organization and every player and staff member here and every fan, and I think he's handled it as well as anybody that I've ever been around certainly could've or would've.''

But I doubt Jackson will handle it as well next year if things haven't changed significantly, including a major upgrade in talent at almost every position.

If it's true that he's the strongest football voice in the organization -- which again should not be the case -- they'll need some major input from him on how to turn it around.
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Why do u bother with him .. he's a WASTE OF TIME ...

I'm telling U ... ignoring guys like him makes the board way MORE ENJOYABLE ...

I've seen u say 50 times u weren't high on Dak ... yet like a 3 year old he calls u out ...

If he responds to me ... I won't even read it ... only reason i saw this one cause like a 3 year old he put BOLDLY in 40 inch letters ..

I'm telling u bro .. it makes the board much more enjoyable .. .

The fact is the Moneyball boys have failed and got to go.

Like these?

Yes ... like those ...

What's your point? .. if your trying to bash me for being hypocritical .. .

Please try and UNDERSTAND the context of my point and WHY I even paid any attention to his post ...

Here .. i'll help u out .. i would have just skipped over his post if it wasn't for the BIG FONT .. thats what drew my eye to that particular response ..

With all the CAPS i use u seriously think i care how big of letter someone uses .. *LOL* ..

PS. If your trying to draw me in to your lil he said, she said posse that hardly ever talks football ... DON'T BOTHER ... i'll have what i consider :good natured ribbing" with anyone over football .. just not the BS u guys seem to emerse yourselves in ... Vers and i have gone toe to toe a hundred times .. just not over the BS u guys go round and round with him about ..

OK .. getting off my soapbox ..

ENJOY VAMBO ..

He doesn't understand that he is calling me a 3 year old for what Verse posted.

His bulb is on solar power and it's getting dark outside.

mac, mac, mac lol wow my friend...well, well, well I thought we would never see eye to eye...guess today is that day lol...

bringing in a person with "football" experience and is "well qualified" running an NFL draft couldn't hurt at all...the one thing that comes to my mind tho is that. If they bring in someone like that, that it would be a "analytical football guy". to be honest I would welcome anyone that has positive experience in running an NFL draft...Proven track record.

j/c:

Another thread ruined.