Its nice to watch the game with a crowd, I can't remember the last time I caught a college game like that. I might arrange a college bowl watching party.
Watson has been especially dialed in the past 2 weeks. I agree very few mental mistakes. Although he did spray a couple of throws in the second half both high. But with the chips on the table I like the way he's responding. Pushing the ball downfield, taking calculated risks, throwing into small windows at times, making improve plays/escaping sacks with his legs.
I was surprised by Clemson's lack of answers to the Hookies blitz packages. I was very impressed with Bud Foster's defense. Clemson/Watson are gonna need better answers to identify and beat blitz next week. Meyer is too good to get beat by QB designed runs.
To be fair, I only watched two full games this season of him.
But one thing that sticks out is is inconsistent mechanics. When he throws with his feet planted, he's great. But he tends to throw off his back foot a lot, and that's effecting his accuracy.
Also, his deep ball accuracy leaves some to be desired. He has a cannon arm, but that doesn't mean much of his mechanics are off and he's not hitting the deep throws.
I also have to question how good he actually is, seeing as he has some crazy playmakers around him. He throws a ton of screens as well to his running backs, that could inflate his stats.
And that's why I think his lack of experience is a problem, especially compared to a guy like Watson, who has played top completion for multiple years.
And that's why I compare him to Blake bortles. Bortles also struggled with mechanics in college, but he has the protype size and strength that people tend to fall in love with all the time. Also, you had to question his experience as the talent he played against wasn't top notch either. Sometimes, that matters.
Every QB struggles with mechanics most likely in college. And I'm not saying he won't be good, I'm just saying I'd prefer Watson over him.
Last edited by Swish; 12/05/1609:45 PM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
And that's why I compare him to Blake bortles. Bortles also struggled with mechanics in college, but he has the protype size and strength that people tend to fall in love with all the time. Also, you had to question his experience as the talent he played against wasn't top notch either. Sometimes, that matters.
I think the Bortles comparison is darn near dead on, except I think Bortles was actually better in college.
To be fair, I only watched two full games this season of him.
out of curiosity, which games?(maybe we've watched the same ones)
Also, isn't 2 games kinda of small sample to make sum conclusions about a prospect?
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But one thing that sticks out is is inconsistent mechanics. When he throws with his feet planted, he's great. But he tends to throw off his back foot a lot, and that's effecting his accuracy.
How often do you think he does this? And do you think it happens more often with him then other prospects? I ask because I try to avoid panning a prospects for mistakes that all QBs make..you know? I try to focus on when a prospect does it more often then is normal, which for me requires some type of charting/counting. When I watch Tribs i'll keep an eye out for it and see if I agree.
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Also, his deep ball accuracy leaves some to be desired.
Not sure what this means without examples. Do you think he's an inaccurate deep ball passer?
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He has a cannon arm, but that doesn't mean much of his mechanics are off and he's not hitting the deep throws.
See above.
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I also have to question how good he actually is, seeing as he has some crazy playmakers around him. He throws a ton of screens as well to his running backs, that could inflate his stats.
I try to judge prospects on the throws/plays that matter. I also try judge a prospects on the plays they make and not his receivers. So i'm not in the business of panning a QB for throwing screens or if their receivers makes plays. Invariable if a QB plays college football right now they are gonna throw a bunch of screens, they all do it. And most QBs on good teams are going to have good weapons. If you down Tribs for that you have to do the same for Watson. Watson throws a ton of screens too and his receivers are studs.
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And that's why I think his lack of experience is a problem, especially compared to a guy like Watson, who has played top completion for multiple years.
I don't know whether his lack of experience will be a problem or not. I do agree though that when Watson clearly gets the nod for experience.
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...I'm just saying I'd prefer Watson over him.
I might agree with you, still want to watch more tape. But I can say that I think the talk of Tribs/Kizer being ranked ahead of Watson are/were (i use were because the draftnik opinion may well swing back in Watson's favor) rooted in prisoner of the moment over reaction imo.
If Tribs and Kizer are actually rated higher then Watson and are drafted before him I would consider getting Watson late in the 1st or early 2nd would be a steal.
I watched the game against Georgia and Georgia tech.
I think trubisky pocket awareness is better than Watson. Watson bails too much in the pocket, trubisky can move inside the pocket.
And just to be clear: I don't really pay so much attention to QB's on a regular basis. This is my first year trying to actually evaluate college QB's, mainly because our team needs one...like really bad.
So for me, the way these guys play in big games matter, as well as the competition they play against.
That's also a reason why I'm confused as to why Kizer is being hyped. Dude got benched and had a crap year.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I think trubisky pocket awareness is better than Watson. Watson bails too much in the pocket, trubisky can move inside the pocket.
This is a HUGE deal to me. Mitch is willing to step up and take hard hits in the pocket. Watson has never been a guy to do that. Mitchell's weaknesses can be fixed with coaching. Watson is who he always has been and will never be anything more.
This guy is yet again another heisman finalist. He's good, and with coaching can become great, just like trubisky has the chance to.
Watson has never been the guy to do that, but maybe because he never needed to. You have to take that into consideration.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Being a heisman finalist means nothing to me. It's a tremendous college award, but means nothing in regards to the NFL. I haven't seen Watson improve in any facet of his game. His team has improved, but that's not because of him.
When I talk about taking a shot, watch this game Mitch played against NC State-
It means a lot, that he's one of the best at this level.
Cream of the crop talent. And hasn't improved?
Compared to who? Trubisky? He's a one year wonder, bro.
And yet, he's thrown 28 TD's compared to Watson's 37 (so far) and has also been sacked more than Watson.
And Watson has thrown for more yards. And has more wins.
Watson also has an arm, and can make any throw that trubisky can.
Actually, the question is if trubisky can make any throw that Watson has made, because Watson has already proven himself.
So what are you seeing that makes trubisky better than Watson overall?
Can't be physical tools and measurements. They are the same height, Watson weighs 5 pounds less than trubisky. Watson is also faster. And a true dual threat.
Sorry man but IMO, trubisky has Blake bortles written all over him.
Or worse: Brandon weeden. One hit wonders.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
If he's Vince young without the mental problems, then sign me up.
Also, I haven't really paid any attention to mayfield.
Last edited by Swish; 12/06/1612:03 AM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
You asked a poster why he thought Watson was Vince Young.
I asked you why you thought Watson was anything more than T. Taylor.
What's the difference?
ed, I like how you research things and you are an asset to the board. However, your evaluations of qbs leaves me scratching my head. Well, I have to say how you argued w/me about our safeties early in the year also baffled me, but you've since seen the light. LOL
Anyway...........tell us why you think Watson is going to be a good qb in the NFL.
I don't want to plan to take or maybe trade up for a QB with the Eagles pick..
If we like a QB, we better like him enough to at least consider drafting him #1 overall..
I understand that good QBs are found everywhere in the draft, my point is that if you feel like a QB prospect isn't "worth" the #1 overall pick, then he's not someone you view as a franchise QB..
If you like Mitch, or Watson, or whomever.. are you prepared to pass on guys like Garrett or Allen, legit pro prospects.. for a guy who might "need time to develop"
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
Quarterbacks for the most part are not plug and play. Most need time to develop. That is especially true when they come from non-traditional NFL offensive schemes. Factor in number of years as a starter and whether they graduated.
When you have a Peyton or Luck they are ready even though they also have a learning curve.
When there is a guy like Lawrence Taylor, Kahlil Mack, or JJ Watt and there is not a QB who projects as true blue NFL then you should take that pass rusher.
Quarterbacks and great pass rushers are positions that can really impact games.
Of course great talent at any position is nice to have.
At this point in time I am not ready to say who I believe is worth the first pick. Still have to do more research.
The obvious need for the Browns is quarterback I sure hope we can find the guy.
The thing is, if the eagles pick stays in the top 10, then we might not have to use our first overall.
It's at 7 right now. That's enough to grab Garrett/Allen and then Watson
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Trubisky can play. I have no problem with taking him at 1 if the Browns are convinced he's their top QB, and worth that high of a pick...
but, they better be right about him, or we're hittin' the reset button again.
I really want Myles Garrett. I'm tired of our defense scaring nobody. We need a pass rush and defense as much as a quarterback, so the debate isn't about what is a bigger need, the debate is about which prospect is the better fit.
Browns are in a tough spot because with a looming 0-16 season coming to an end, they are probably going to have to go +6-7 next year in W/L to keep their jobs, and picking a QB high in fear of that could collapse the whole thing.
Man I hope the Eagles keep losing. They have some really tough games coming up, and I hope Dallas doesn't rest their better players in week 17...
You asked a poster why he thought Watson was Vince Young.
I asked you why you thought Watson was anything more than T. Taylor.
What's the difference?
Was on the phone before. The other difference candy? actually said he thought Watson was Vince Young. Again, I never made any comment about Watson in relation to Tyrod, you did.
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ed, I like how you research things and you are an asset to the board. However, your evaluations of qbs leaves me scratching my head.
That's interesting because I rarely give my evaluations of QBs. I occasionally breakdown a game and give my thoughts of the skillset I see from play to play in a given game.
e.g.
Originally Posted By: edromeo
Watched this game because Grimm had already watched and commented on his observations.
My quick thoughts from watching:
o easy velocity, doesn't have to 'muscle up' to throw with power (e.g. corner route)
o 1:17 was his best throw of the game for me. He reads through his progression start from left to right and uncorks a sideline comeback/backshoulder throw
o showed some athleticism and willingness to use his legs on few occasions 7:02, 8:00, 1020
o missed throws/inaccurate 2:30. 3:20, 4:15, 5:40, 6:45
o made 3 very poor decisions/ 2 were picked off e.g 6:00, 7:30, 1046 end the game
o has a quick release but not your typical throwing motion, doesn't fully extend his arm his throwing motion reminds me a lot of John Beck/Ryan Tannehill
o good ball handling with play action
I might respond to someone else's claims about a prospect and discuss if I agree/disagree about a specific trait. But, rarely do I give an sum evaluation.
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Well, I have to say how you argued w/me about our safeties early in the year also baffled me, but you've since seen the light. LOL
Not sure exactly what you mean but okay *shrugs*. I wouldn't be at all surprised if you weren't getting my point wrong/misunderstanding my point which seems to happen often at times with you.
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Anyway...........tell us why you think Watson is going to be a good qb in the NFL.
I'm still watching games. And was trying to gauge other people's current perception of the QBs, including Mitch and Watson and right the conversation has progressed past comps that I don't get i.e Bortles/Vince Young. I would prefer a discussion of an actual game.
Anyhow...this is still early but in a very brief nutshell. Throws a complete inventory of passes. Good accuracy and arm strength to all levels of the field. Above average deep ball thrower. Can turn up the velocity when needed. Comfortable throwing into small windows. Adept at throwing backshoulder/throws based on body position of receiver. Can throw on the move. Clean and consistent throwing motion. Can functionally get the ball of quick. And from a decision making standpoint can get the ball out quick also. Despite not playing in 3-5-7 step drop passing game displays good balance with his footwork. Is the centerpiece of Clemson's offense and executes that offense at a high level, very productive QB. Goes through his reads without panic and makes good decisions for the most part. I can recognize some of the concepts in the Clemson offense that I can see in the NFL passing offenses, doesn't play in true 'air raid' spread. Can hang in the pocket and stand and deliver. Can climb the pocket. Good pocket presence. Is comfortable throwing into the middle of the field. Has lots of reps. Has played and come through in big games (no jinx). Above average mobility, can evade sacks and can be used in read-option game to boost the run game. Displays above average playmaking/improvisational ability when the play breaks down.
Got a bit reckless with the football this season. Has to balance giving his receivers a chance to make plays with a 50-50 ball and forcing it into coverage.
Would like to see him place a greater emphasis on protecting himself at the end of runs.
Footwork when throwing on the run needs cleaned up.
That's where I'm at with Watson right now, like I said still watching games and will eventually plug him into a standard 1-5 grade systems of traits.
I am going to be nice and ignore the rest, but......
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Anyhow...this is still early but in a very brief nutshell. Throws a complete inventory of passes. Good accuracy and arm strength to all levels of the field. Above average deep ball thrower. Can turn up the velocity when needed. Comfortable throwing into small windows. Adept at throwing backshoulder/throws based on body position of receiver. Can throw on the move. Clean and consistent throwing motion. Can functionally get the ball of quick. And from a decision making standpoint can get the ball out quick also. Despite not playing in 3-5-7 step drop passing game displays good balance with his footwork. Is the centerpiece of Clemson's offense and executes that offense at a high level, very productive QB. Goes through his reads without panic and makes good decisions for the most part. I can recognize some of the concepts in the Clemson offense that I can see in the NFL passing offenses, doesn't play in true 'air raid' spread. Can hang in the pocket and stand and deliver. Can climb the pocket. Good pocket presence. Is comfortable throwing into the middle of the field. Has lots of reps. Has played and come through in big games (no jinx). Above average mobility, can evade sacks and can be used in read-option game to boost the run game. Displays above average playmaking/improvisational ability when the play breaks down.
Got a bit reckless with the football this season. Has to balance giving his receivers a chance to make plays with a 50-50 ball and forcing it into coverage.
Would like to see him place a greater emphasis on protecting himself at the end of runs.
Footwork when throwing on the run needs cleaned up.
That's where I'm at with Watson right now, like I said still watching games and will eventually plug him into a standard 1-5 grade systems of traits.
Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.
If you are interested, I'll give you my evaluation on him, which is subject to change as I watch more of him. One thing I can tell you is that I live in SC and have watched him quite a bit since he burst onto the scene at Clemson.
One thing I'd like to add, Watson, under pressure, has the worst footwork I've seen in a while. Big time side stepper, which throws his accuracy off a ton when under pressure. Going to be a massive problem at the next level.
I think we will pick #7 overall via the pick from the Eagles. Trubisky is off the board by then I'd assume. We can't let Myles Garret slip out of our grasp. Call it redemption for the blunder of not taking Khalil Mack at #4 in 2014. Imagine how different our team right now would look if they just somehow randomly chose my mock draft that year out of a pile in the back somewhere and went with it. Khalil Mack, Jimmy Garroplolo, and Gabe Jackson (Raiders scooped him up that year too). Myles Garret better be on this roster come next season. With the clout we've accumalted over the next couple years in extra draft picks, we are in the drivers seat on draft day 2017. Moving up in position to nab Trubisky would be pricy...but we will have "money to burn." We've heard for years now that "quantity is more important for the Browns right now." This year the scope should be to use quantity to draft quality. It's December though. I could be swayed to theTrubiskyTrain if he jumps off the charts at the combine. He has played very well for sure.
Please define what "jump off the charts" at the combine entails ... specifically what does he have to do to achieve "jumping off the charts" .....
A QB? Please do define.
Diam. Have you watched anymore of Trubs?
I love the kid, everything except the experience. I'm always big on that 35+ starts in college. Trubs just doesn't have it so it's going to have to be a major projection deal with him.
If he can adjust to the speed of the game and learn to read defenses, he's a gold mine going forward.
About these Spread and One-Read Offenses. College Head Coaches need to win to keep their jobs. I think they just don't have the TIME to be coaching up QBs in a pro style offensive system with guys jumping ship after the Junior year. Therefore make it simple. It sucks but that's the way It is nowadays.
I love the kid, everything except the experience. I'm always big on that 35+ starts in college. Trubs just doesn't have it so it's going to have to be a major projection deal with him.
If he can adjust to the speed of the game and learn to read defenses, he's a gold mine going forward.
About these Spread and One-Read Offenses. College Head Coaches need to win to keep their jobs. I think they just don't have the TIME to be coaching up QBs in a pro style offensive system with guys jumping ship after the Junior year. Therefore make it simple. It sucks but that's the way It is nowadays.
Ya .. I'm up to 4 of his games so far ... i'm going to try and watch the rest this week ... watched the Miami game this morning ..
Agree with u about the lack of starts ... also wish he took snaps under center .. thats becoming a rarity in college football today .. its almost extinct .. I'd be shocked if a QB taking more snaps under center than not isn't EXTINCT ... he also has "happy feet" on some throws in a few of the games ... in the Miami game .. he had very "quiet" feet .. will watch for possible reasons for that as I watch the rest of the games ...
I like him way better than Watson .. NOT EVEN CLOSE ... i should say at this point, 4 games is not enough to make a decent judgement ... so far in the 4 i watched .. kids got a chance ... i like what i've seen so far so much i will re-watch them all ... u always see "more" and "different" things a 2nd and even a 3rd time through ...
I watched the V-Tech game and was thinking .. WOW .. HE STINKS .. this doesn't fit with the other 2 games I've seen .... this doesn't ad up .. then about 1/2 through Q3 it dawned on me that was the day of the hurricane ... then it made sense .. *L* ..
So far what I've seen ... i really like ... if we took Watson with a top 10 pick I'd be PUKING once again ... with what i've seen of this kid so far ... i would understand us taking him at #1 ...
Still got alot of watching to do ...
If you've watched at least a few of his games ... can u give any more details/specifics on what u do and don't like about him ...
But, where to start? My first thought for Mitch is to start with the Duke game only because I already watched and took some notes on the game and Grimm already watched it too.
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