DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 10 Bengals 23 Post Game Thoughts

the Browns had 2 weeks to put together a credible game plan vs the Bengals with RG3.
RG3 looked like he was signed off the street last week.
Kevin Hogan looked better than him and was getting very little snaps that week vs the Bengals
there was no flow to the offense at all.
RG3 is the new version of Jake Delhomme.
washed up.vet who found a away to start for a desperate franchise

Hey, at least Delhomme took his team to the Super Bowl, and he really was brought here as a transitional guy before he got washed up.

I don't know what to tell you, I'm not at practice with these guys. How much time do they spend in live practice during the bye?

If I had my way we'd have just kept McCown as the starter this year while Cardale Jones was carrying a clip board for a year.

CLE-CIN GRADES: BENGALS’ OFFENSE HEATS UP FIRST HALF

The highest-graded players and top takeaways from the Bengals' win over the Browns.

TAYLOR WRIGHT | 3 HOURS AGO
(Photo by Jason Miller/Getty Images)



Cincinnati Bengals 23, Cleveland Browns 10
These are the highest-graded players and top takeaways from the Bengals’ win over the Browns.

Quarterback Grade: Andy Dalton, 65
Dalton weathers the conditions in win


Andy Dalton completed 20 of his 28 drop back pass attempts for 180 yards with two touchdowns, one drop and no interceptions. Dalton was also sacked four times. Dalton found success using play action as he was four of six on play action passes for 49 yards and a touchdown. The Bengals QB completed two of five pass attempts under pressure for 22 yards. Dalton was zero for two on passes of 20 yards or more as Cincinnati used shorts passes and the running game to control the clock and game in the snow and wind.


Top offensive grades:
RB Jeremy Hill, 79.7
WR Tyler Boyd, 79.4
TE Tyler Eifert, 78.9
T Andrew Whitworth, 77.7
TE Tyler Kroft, 74.6


Bengals offense heats up in first half
A balanced Bengals offense built a controlling lead in the tough weather conditions by halftime and that was enough to get the win in Cleveland. Tyler Boyd had a nice day working in the slot with six receptions on six targets for 49 yards. TE Tyler Eifert had five receptions on five targets for 48 yards. Jeremy Hill flashed good vision in the Bengals zone blocking scheme to help the Bengals offense find balance and maintain control of the game. Andrew Whitworth led the Bengals up front allowing two QB hurries while also showing solid work in run blocking.


Top defensive grades:
DT Geno Atkins, 84.5
CB Adam Jones, 78.4
LB Karlos Dansby, 77.4
S Shawn Williams, 73.7
CB Joshua Shaw, 71.3
Bengals defense show toughness in win
Geno Atkins had a big day inside for the Bengals defense with two stops in run defense on 14 snaps while earning two sacks, one hit and four hurries rushing the passer. Adam Jones did his duty in pass coverage yielding one reception for four yards on two targets. Cincinnati played team defense by taking away the deep ball from Robert Griffin III and forcing the Browns offense off the field on third down.



Quarterback grade: Robert Griffin III, 37.2


RG III has tough day
Playing in harsh weather conditions, especially in the first half, Griffin failed to find rhythm passing on the day. Griffin completed 12 of his 28 drop back pass attempts for 104 yards with one drop and one interception. The Browns QB was zero for three on his deep pass attempts with his interception coming on a pass deep down the field. Griffin was three of ten on pass attempts under pressure (with one drop) for 41 yards and completed only one of his 10 pass attempts using play action for five yards.


Top offensive grades
T Joe Thomas, 81.9
G Jonathan Cooper, 80.7
T Austin Pasztor, 77.5
G Spencer Drango, 71.1
RB Isaiah Crowell, 68.7


Browns offense struggles in loss
The Browns offense had only a couple successful drives against the Bengals defense, but a few offensive linemen turned in solid performances. Tackle Joe Thomas yielded no sacks, hits or hurries and guard Jonathan Cooper performed well run blocking while yielding only one QB hurry. RB Isaiah Crowell managed to break loose on three runs of 15 yards or longer as the Browns also utilized Griffin’s running abilities from the QB position to find some success in the run game.


Top defensive grades:
ED Cam Johnson, 84.3
CB Briean Boddy-Calhoun, 79.9
DI Stephen Paea, 79.6
ED Emmanuel Ogbah, 78.5
LB Chris Kirksey, 77


Browns defense settles down after rough start
The Bengals’ offensive success against the Browns defense in the first half could not be overcome, but the Browns made some stops as the game progressed and a few players were able to have a solid showing. Stephen Paea had one tackle and an assist in run defense while also managing a sack and two hurries rushing the passer. Emmanuel Ogbah produced two sacks and a QB hit to go along with two hurries while LB Cam Johnson had a sack and hurry rushing the passer to go along with a tackle and two assists in run defense.
PFF Game-ball Winner: Geno Atkins

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro...up-first-half/

I think a lot of play callers try to get to cute. Now I'm not an NFL coach but if it were me I would try to make the game plan as simple as possible. The primary goal of the offense would be to run the ball. The number of running attempts would out number the passes. We would be running so many times, we'd have a rotation of maybe two backs, Crow and Johnson, and use them how they're supposed to be used. One is thunder and the other is a little faster. Basically my goal would be to get to a point where we could run at will and tire out the opposing defense.

Everything would be predicated off the run. Would place a premium on play action and safeties and other players cheating up getting too used to the run. Blitzes would be counter acted by screen passes, slants, short passes, so there's some kind of potential gain or a big one.

To be able to play like this you need good running, good offensive line, good defense. At this point I think you would win with a smart, accurate QB, that wouldn't even have to be an all world beater.

But something like that is all easier said than done. Our talent level is seriously low on both sides of the ball but I also feel like the offense has NO IDENTITY whatsoever at this point and part of that is to blame on coaching and Hue Jackson. But more of it rests upon the front office who gave no players to form a meanginful identity. Either way, you need to make up your mind what your team identity is and draft for that. Who do you want to be?

Do you want to be a team that has a strong running game, nasty defense, time of possession? Yes, some people don't like this kind of football because its not as exciting but I think its the easiest way to build a team while waiting to hit some kind of magical jackpot on a QB. Passing wouldn't even have to be too awfully important.

Our team has no identity at all...........We need to be a running team, that is all. And the identity has to be committed to. None of this pass happy crap when running is working well. That makes me want to fire THAT COACH!

Just a couple of thoughts.

I thought that Cooper actually looked pretty good at RG. I think that every good run by Crow today was over RG.

RGIII looked like he had never played professional football before. I know that he had been out for 3 months .... but he looked like he hadn't practiced with the team at all.

I do think that the Bengals let up a bit after going up by 20.

We have pieces on this team, but also a lot of holes and question marks.

I said it at the beginning of the year, and I think that it has proved out, that youth doesn't win in the NFL. A team needs veteran players to show young guys how to be pros. We really lack in those kind of guys. I know that it is anathema to this front office to go sign quality free agents, but we needs some guys who can show the way. They cannot be guys like Bailey, who came from a team with OL issues, and was expected to replace a quality guy like Schwartz.

This has been a really long year. I expected that .... but this has been even worse than I expected.

Delhomme was already washed up when that turd Holmgren brought him here. Delhomme was coming off an 18 INT season and was benched after 11 games the year before coming to Cleveland.

I mentioned this during the game, but thank God a lot of us are Cavs, Indians, and Buckeye fans. It makes the Browns suckitude eaiser to deal with.

That ST thing is a legit need to upgrade. We ran well and quit. RG3 is dead as an experiment that should not have been undertaken IMO. Just poor football. Maybe Horton can get more out of them with different people.

Self-scouting we touted was a bust. Sure looked the same.

Yes, Hue's playcalling and time management has been questionable but I don't put most of the blame on him. This talent is either too young or too bad at this point and that's why we have a poor record. That being said, having Kruger, Gipson, Whitner, Benjamin on this squad doesn't lead to believe we'd be much better. OUr QB play has been abismal and that's where I put much blame on Hue. He wanted RG3 and he wanted Cody Kessler and got his wish. They have not worked out at all this season and we'll be back to the drawing board at QB most likely.

Back to yesterday, I thought Jonathan Cooper and Cam Erving played well. I'd be interested to see how Cooper performs in the final three games. Cam Erving has been getting better each game as of late and overall the line played well. Maybe we're not as bad as many think at that group. An interesting stat I read about Joe Thomas....yesterday was the first game this season where he had not given up a QB pressure.

I guess i need to caveat my post up front: I do not think Hue/Horton should be fired. Maybe to some critique of a talent deprived team is like shuffling chairs on the Titanic but whether it equates to a win or not IF something is a mistake it's still a mistake.

I thought the

Anyhow....notes

-Ogbah is a a good edge rusher who would look even better if he didn't have to play 34 DE in base.

-Griffin looked terrible in the first half. Hesitant at the top of his drop, held the ball, inaccurate on throws that should be gimmes. Better in the 3rd, but stilled was off on 2 throws. Rust?Weather? either way not good enough. But, still got 3 more games.

-Paea should play more at 5-tech and 3-tech.

-Defense still searching for an identity...looked much better in the second half...i don't understand the use of personnel in the front 7. Ogbah and Nasdib shouldn't play in 34 DE 5-tech in base defense! They're not stout enough and don't have the body type.
In base 34 im going with: Paea-Danny-Meder/Coop...not Ogbah/Nassib. You can't stop the run like that. Also what happened to Gabe Wright? At least he was tough to move off his spot.
AND playing Ogbah at 34 DE 5-tech forces Collins to OLB (which is fine) BUT that in turn puts Demario back on the field at ILB



-thought the OL was better then expected

-penalties

-get Duke more touches and involved earlier

-get zone read going earlier

-got to manufactor touches, easy touches for best players

Why do we continue to hold/block-in-the-back on seemingly every other kickoff return? How many times have we started inside our ten yard line on a damn kickoff?! How many times have we run the ball to only the 15-18 and STILL have committed that penalty?

The first four times we touched the ball yesterday we committed two penalties...COMING OFF THE BYE WEEK!

I didn't expect to win yesterday...but I thought we'd look way better than we did coming off the bye week.

If what you say is true, why would the FO draft these players when they knew we run a 3-4?

This post sums up my thoughts as well, particularly regarding Ogbah. I'd like to see him more as an OLB in the 34. I thought Nassib would be ok as a 5T but, your right, he doesn't have the body type yet. Maybe he can put on a little more weight/muscle in the offseason. I followed the game off and on yesterday, but was Paea playing NT spelling Shelton or something? Because I feel like he has played 34DE for us at times this year. I agree, I'd rather have him as a 3T on the line.

At times, I feel like Horton is just trying everyone, everywhere just to have a better idea of how they fit into his defense, but I don't know.

Ogbah is 6'4 and claims to be 280. He's also jacked as hell. How does he not have the body to play? Unless you guys think JJ Watt doesn't have the body either because he's not 300 pounds of fat.

Because it's easy to blame the coaching staff for the way our team is playing. LOL

Adam Jones trashes Terrelle Pryor after game: 'He's garbage; I have no respect for him'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...art_river_index

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com on December 11, 2016 at 5:50 PM, updated December 11, 2016 at 8:23 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Bengals cornerback Adam Jones disrespected Terrelle Pryor before the game, but he totally trashed him afterwards. Literally.

In an epic postgame rant following the Bengals' 23-10 victory over the Browns, Jones picked up a garbage can in the locker room and shouted, "Hey, let me find him. Terrelle, you in there?' You in there? Get on up out of there.''

Then, he slammed down the garbage can and said, "Terrelle Pryor is garbage.'' He repeated "garbage'' another half-dozen times.

He refused to comment on anything other than Pryor, using his entire post-game presser to rip him as hard as any NFL player has ever done to another.

"I ain't talking about nothing but Terrelle Pryor today,'' he said. "Get out of my face if you want to ask me anything else. He started this the first time we played him. He's got to be the alpha dog.

"For a guy that's been a slouch around the league as a quarterback, he does a lot of fake hard s---.

"It's just the principle of you've been playing for so long and you've put in your work and you've got young guys talking s-- who haven't done s--,'' said Jones.
"We took it personal. I know me and Dre (Kirkpatrick) did.''

Jones claimed that Pryor said something to Jones' defensive coordinator, Paul Guenther. Pryor, who spent about a month with the Bengals last year, declined to be interviewed after the game. He was visibly upset after the loss, remaining on the bench until the field had almost cleared. As he walked off the field, he threw his helmet.

"For a guy to personally go to my coordinator and tell me he's going to get me cut after the game,'' said Jones. "I have the utmost respect for Hue (Jackson), but certain s-- I don't tolerate from young punks basically. A (expletive) suburb kid that wants to act like he's the toughest thing in the world, because he's caught a couple of balls.

"He's just arrogant. You could see it with his teammates. Could you all not see when he was pushing and cussing at RGIII on the field?''

Pryor, who was targeted only three times in the game and caught one pass for 3 yards, got into a heated exchange with Griffin when there was some confusion on a third down play in the third quarter. The Browns had to burn a time out, and shouting and finger-pointing ensued between the quarterback and receiver.

"I told RGIII how the (expletive) you going to throw him the ball when he's talking to you like that,'' said Jones. "You're the (expletive) quarterback. It's just little things. I don't really don't get into personal battles because I've got respect for a lot of people, but certain situations it just demands me to speak.

"Truthfully I could give two (expletives) about Terrelle Pryor and his career.''

Jones also said, "I looked up his background. He's a suburban kid from Pittsburgh. Stop acting hard. I don't have no respect for him.''

When asked about anything else about the game, Jones would only trash Pryor again.

"The rest of them are real good; Pryor suck,'' he said.

As for the Bengals playing well, he said, "Pryor, you want to talk about Terrelle Pryor. I don't want to talk about nobody but Terrelle Pryor right now. Suck.''

When Cincinnati's Fox 19 from tried to ask Jones what the backstory was, Jones said "average (expletive, expletive). Get the (expletive) out of here.''

On Thursday, Jones told the Cincinnati Inquirer that he didn't like Pryor.

"He pushes off, every route. He's an OK receiver," Jones told cincinnati.com. "They do feature him a little bit so he does get more looks than a guy who would be in his situation. He's just a guy to me."

Jones also criticized Pryor's performance in the first meeting, a 31-17 Bengals victory. Pryor, suffering from a pulled hamstring that game and severely limited, caught only two of his four targets for 18 yards. That means he has three catches for 21 yards in his two games against the Bengals. On one play, a flea-flicker, Griffin threw into triple coverage for him and the deep ball was picked off.

"He can't push at the top of a route, so you've just got to be in good position," Jones said midweek of how to defend Pryor. "We played him last game and he didn't do (expletive)."
The remarks weren't lost on Pryor, who tweeted, "Talk is talk, I'll be at the stadium Sunday.'' He added "vienticuatro reasons'' which stands for Jones' No. 24 in Spanish.

It's the second time in as many games that Pryor has gotten into a war of words with a starting cornerback. Before the bye, Giants Janoris Jenkins called him out, saying Pryor wasn't a big challenge for him and that he was just another receiver.

Like Jones, Jenkins was even harder on Pryor after the game, calling him a derogatory name on Twitter.

Pryor took the high road that time, complementing Jenkins for a good game and wishing him luck the rest of the season.

As for the heated exchange between Griffin and Pryor, Griffin the two are fine.

"It wasn't anything big,'' he said. "He just wanted to run the play. We got so low on the gameclock that we needed to take a time out. We scored on that drive, so it all worked out.''

My fear going into next season is that the Organization will make NO CHANGES ! .. Have stated over and over : Horton needs to go , and they bring in a 4/3 keep it simple DC ( WERE YOUNG AND GOING TO BE YOUNG FOR SOME TIME )

Force Hue to be the Head Coach and have a full time play calling OC ..

Take the best player at your pick in the draft , don't move down ( up if necessary )

Just those three moves and we will improve !

JJ Watt is 295, JJ Watt was 290 in college.
The Browns list Ogbah at 275 in college he was 273.

Also, to be clear, we are talking about 34 DE.

That was pretty rough.

Garbage.

1st a point of fact. The "34" is only used about 30-40% of snaps. The defense spends the rest/bulk of the time in a 4man DL.

Since you're asking me to speculate.....I'll speculate for you.

They didn't draft them with the intent to play 34 DE.

Ogbah was probably drafted as Edge rusher i.e. base D OLB and primarily as nickel edge rusher. Which is where he's done most of his damage. They also probably see him as the type that can occasional reduce inside as 3-tech in a "nascar" type package.

Nassib as probably drafted as nickel edge rusher, 43 DE that can occasionally play 3-tech.

3-13

If the Browns go after a QB, and it's not Cousins, that tells you everything you need to know about their talent evaluation. Would it really hurt the Browns that much to give up a 2nd or 3rd for him? He's performed well two years in a row, and he'll probably be franchised again.

If cousins is franchised, how do you propose we get him?

Couldn't you work out a trade even if the player is franchised? I thought that you could - especially since Cousins would cost them more than $20M next year by himself. And since the Redskins have only $8M in cap space available from what I've seen, they might be open to a trade if the deal is right.

I'm not sure u can franchise a guy two years in a row ... can u? ..

I don't see how he hits the open market either way ...

He knows Grudens system and has played very well in it ...

The Skins will free up the space to keep him ... QB's like him are hard to find so I don't see how they don't work something out ..

I think you can franchise 2 years, but that's it IIRC ... maybe I'm wrong

Think you can but each successive tag year goes up considerably. Wasn't that part of the Dawson exit? Become less of a bargain the following year. I am not certain, but I think I have seen that before, so you can't run off a whole series of tags.

Nah, it's just culminating with the era of analytics.
It's been this bad and with zero hope for a long, long time - some are just now seeing it.

No complaints about Cam?

I must be on the wrong website.

Can't believe I'm still watching these games. I mean seriously it's not getting better. I really thought maybe this young group would turn a small corner toward the end of the year, but it's the usual December collapse.

I really wish I could say some nice things about this team, but there's really not much to say. They don't even seem like they have direction. This defense is so soft.

I don't want to judge this draft too early, but nobody stands out to me much. There may be a few starters in the class, but I don't see any impact guys. I mean, I get that they punted on the second pick, but the only guy who looks like he could be above average is Ogbah.

I think the best part of Sunday's game was that as bad as RG3 was, and he was horrible, we didn't have to once again subject ourselves to watching Josh McCown play. I'm so sick of seeing him on the field in that jersey. I get that he's a nice guy, and he's tough, and players respect that, but he's 38 years old and horrible. I'd rather Cam Erving take snaps at QB than McCown, because then at least Erving isn't at center, and McCown isn't at QB.

I am excited for the draft, because we obviously have our choice of any eligible player, and Philly's pick is getting more delicious by the Sunday.

Tony Romo would be a good acquisition for us. He fits in perfect here just like our other qb's. We get him, make him our starting qb, he plays, gets hurt by game 2 or 3 and then we start going through all our back-up's. Perfect.

Cooper was really impressive to me yesterday.

As I watch this team, I think back to my preseason prediction of 1-15, and wonder why I was that optimistic.

Sad... Just sad

Caveat: I think Hue is a good coach capable of turning this franchise around. I do not think any coaches should be fired.

I am going to give my thoughts on the playcalling/gameplan philosophy...

o I thought the Bengals staff outcoached the Browns staff. The Bengals did not use the schemes that the Browns have seen the most Single Post Safety Cover 1(press)/Cover 3. The Bengals primarily played 2 deep safeties and when they did play single post they usually played the CBs off.

o Overall the Browns gameplan didn't depart too much from what we have seen previous. The passing game was more focused downfield then short/intermediate. But the Bengals 2 deep looks took away those deep chances that were available vs Cover 1 press.

o Because of the 2 deep safeties AND the zone-read element that Griffin brings I thought they would run the ball more especially using 3 wide receiver to get them in nickel.

o I thought they could have targeted Pryor, Coleman and Duke (who I think is criminally underused) earlier and more often. I think they should start the game off with RB as primary read or designed 'easy' passes like screens or bunch route designed for catch and run...just get the ball into the receivers hand quick. Build a rhythm then expand and try to go vertical.

o Also, I didn't see the type of routes typically designed as cover 2 'beaters' like smash or all-go

And Griffin was rusty as hell, was inaccurate and too many throws and was gunshy.