DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Crazy pastor tells kids - Santa's fake

Who the...

WTF...

What kind of monster does this?




A video published Saturday by Texas pastor David Grisham of "Last Frontier Evangelism" has gone viral showing the pastor telling a group of children waiting to see St. Nick that Santa Claus is not real.

The incident took place last week at the Amarillo Texas Mall.

"Kids, there is no such thing as Santa Claus," Grisham told the surprised onlookers. Santa Claus does not exist, the Christmas season is about Jesus... Parents, you need to stop lying to your children."

While some parents ignored the pastor, one man approached the pastor and said, "shut up."

But Grisham continued on insisting to the patrons that Santa is not real.

That's when the man in the video got into an argument with Grisham.

"I've got my kids over there, we don't need you blabbing whatever the hell you're babbling," the man said.

Grisham has been in the news before. In 2010, he made headlines for leading a Quran burning as part of a group called "Repent Amarillo."

Being in the spotlight can be fun.

Some people thrive for it.

I think we can safely put Grisham in that category.

Young children deserve a little happy "magic".

Savages

Well, he's right. The Christmas season should be about Jesus, family and giving...not some fat clown in a red suit. I won't lie to my kid about Santa.

I know I felt betrayed when I found out Santa wasn't real and then realized that my parents were lying to me all those years.

That's how I feel, but I'm not going to start ruining it for other kids and their parents, which is what this pastor is doing. He's rightfully going to catch a lot of heat because you don't do this to kids on your own. Jackass.

Sounds like a bad Sam Hyde skit.

How dare he try to replace fiction with a fantasy!

Honestly though. Shouldn't he be promoting that Jesus was born in the Spring and that Christmas is just a pagan festival? I wonder if the Pastor believes Jesus was white and blonde.

Wrong time, wrong place, wrong attitude, just plain WRONG. Plus he looks like a perverted Meth head SMH

Many years ago our Church had a way of dealing with Christmas about Santa Claus. We explained to our kids that while Santa as a person was not real, The "Spirit" he represented was Good Will towards all Men. That seemed to make them happy. They liked the fact that we as mere Men can have a effect on the Human Race.

Punch, I'm gonna take a guess and say your parents have lied to you about worse things than Santa.

Hell, the way I see it parents lieing about Santa actually prepares kids for the real world. It basically tells them that people will lie to them and disappoint them. Can't protect your kids forever and give them the false impression everyone is always going to be 100% honest with them. This is the most gentle way to do it.

I was just waiting for some kid to say: "We believe in some fat guy (who actually existed) who gave out presents and you believe in some dude that walked on water."

Sure, fair point.

I'd bet my mom said my teeth would fall out in a few days if I didn't floss that night, I'd fail 3rd grade if I didn't do my homework 100% perfect or every stranger I see at the grocery store wants to kidnap me. Those lies shape priorities in my mind and keep me safe. However, lying about a magical red suited guy living in the North Pole with elves just seems pointless to me.

It serves no other purpose than to dupe the kids into believing something that they'll eventually find out, keep that secret from their younger siblings and then do the same to their children later in life.

Like I said, as a Christian, this time of the year isn't supposed to be about Santa...well, maybe it's okay to be about the spirit of his giving. I don't think we need to tell the kids that flying reindeer, magical elves and a fat dude breaking into our house is the best way to do that.

I'm betting the Pastor doesn't believe in Science either.

So be honest, are you actually mad about the lie itself or how a Christian holiday has been commercialized? I'd understand the anger about Christmas being commercialized.

I have a question.

If Christians are aware that Jesus wasn't actually born in December, why not make an effort to place the holiday around the time of his actual birth?

It's in December because we tried to convert pagans that celebrated a holiday around the same time. I'm just kind of confused why we didn't just "switch" at some point.

Coming to America would've been the obvious perfect opening for that.

Guess they....missed the boat.

Sure do Scientist get their wisdom knowledge and understanding from the Lord

Yule never believe this...

December may be marked by Christmas, Hanukkah and Kwanzaa, but for pagans it’s the time to celebrate Yule. The holiday marks the winter solstice in the Northern Hemisphere (Sunday, Dec. 21, this year) and celebrates the rebirth of the sun and beginning of winter. It is one of the oldest winter celebrations known.

The winter solstice is the longest night and shortest day of the year. The Earth’s axis tilts the furthest away from the sun at 23-and-a-half degrees, giving all locations north of the equator less than 12 hours of daylight. This moment has been marked by mankind for centuries.

In ancient Rome, the weeklong feast of Saturnalia honored the sun god Saturn. Celts believed the sun stood still for 12 days, making it necessary to light a log fire to conquer the darkness. During the Iron Age, the Celts and other ancient Europeans welcomed the winter solstice by feasting, merrymaking and sacrificing animals. Today modern pagans celebrate the holiday by lighting candles, throwing bonfires, hosting feasts and decorating their homes.

Celebrating the rebirth of the sun can be seen in other cultures throughout history. While these typically took place during the coldest, darkest days of the year, winter solstice traditions were celebrations that gave people hope sunny days lay ahead.

Egyptians celebrated the return of Ra, god of the sun, on a daily basis. Ancient Greeks held a similar festival called Lenaea. The Roman Empire held Saturnalia celebrations. Scandinavia's Norsemen called the holiday “Yule.” Families would light Yule logs where they would eat until the log burned out – which could take up to 12 days. Each spark was believed to represent a new pig or calf that would be born in the new year.

Germanic peoples would celebrate the winter festival by honoring the pagan god Odin. Many believed he would fly through the night sky (on a magical flying horse) and determine who would be blessed or cursed in the coming year. Many decided to stay indoors, fearing Odin’s wrath.

Relation to Christmas

Originally the Christian calendar focused on Easter. It was only in the fourth century that the church decided Jesus Christ’s birthday should be celebrated. Since the Bible did not point to an exact date when Christ was born, Pope Julius I chose Dec. 25. It’s commonly believed that the church chose the date in an effort to replace the Roman Saturnalia with the Christian holiday.

"As the Christmas celebration moved west," Harry Yeide, a professor of religion at George Washington University told National Geographic. "The date that had traditionally been used to celebrate the winter solstice became sort of available for conversion to the observance of Christmas. In the Western church, the December date became the date for Christmas."

Besides the date, Christian leaders found ways to relate the pagan holiday to the Christian one.

"This gave rise to an interesting play on words," Yeide said. "In several languages, not just in English, people have traditionally compared the rebirth of the sun with the birth of the son of God."

Christmas traditions including dinner feasts, gift-giving, and decorative wreaths can be traced back to winter solstice rituals. For instance, for the Celtic druids, mistletoe was a sacred plant called “All Heal.” Priests would cut the plant from the tree, hold a feast and sacrifice animals underneath it. Mistletoe was believed to cure illnesses, serve as an antidote for poisons, ensure fertility and protect against witchcraft. Some people would hang it from their doorways or rooms to offer goodwill to visitors.

Ancient Romans would decorate their homes with holly during winter solstice. Holly wreaths were given as gifts and used as decoration in public areas and in homes to honor the sun god Saturn. Ancient Celts would have similar traditions. Many would plant holly in their homes as a form of protection since the plants was believed to hold magical powers for its ability to survive the winter months.

Link

To me, I'm more against the lie. I preach to my daughter all the time about telling the truth, that honesty is a cornerstone to having stable relationships as an adult (work, family, friends, etc.). I can't bring myself to tell my daughter a flying sleigh is possible when I just explained the basic physics of flight to her, "Well, Santa's sleigh is the exception...".

Plus, like I said, it's also a month-long lie that last for 9-11 years. It hurts me to think a friend of hers will tell her the truth soon and then she'll realize that I had been lying to her for so long.

That's why I don't talk Santa, Tooth Fairy and other crap like that. I also don't tell her it's fake because my wife would beat my butt. Ultimately, I lost that fight with her mom too.

As for the commercialization of Christmas, it's a problem and I'd like to change it, but that's too big of a fight. Plus, I'm not a devout Christian, so it's probably not my fight even if I wanted to do anyway.

I never could understand why Christians wished to perpetuate lying to their children. We teach them that even a little white lie is a lie. Then we proceed to lie to them. I find that astounding.

Children would be just as happy with the gifts no matter where they came from. I applaud a Christian who refuses to perpetuate a lie.

Jeramiah 10:1-5

1Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

5They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess if Christians wish to follow customs that the Bible plainly states are heathen, have at it!

I'm not a literalist, so quoting scripture never phases me. The again, you've probably already figured out what my belief system is by now if you've been paying attenton to my political discussions lol

Punch, I think it's silly to pick and choose specific battles to fight. It's going to send a confusing message when you say "No! I will not lie to my kid about (insert)." There will be kids that grow up wondering "why did my dad tell me babies come from storks, but he drew the line at the tooth fairy?" I think it has a lot more to do with commercialization and Christmas losing its meaning than you want to openly admit.

It was actually directed at Pastor who claims it's okay to lie to your children and put up pagan symbols that even the Bible points out is wrong. He already knows the Bible says lying is wrong but has already tried to excuse that.

when my daughters saw a reindeer (caribou) for the first time, that was all they needed to see.

good luck telling them rudolph isn't real. might get jumped by them two.

also, Saint Nik was a real dude.

so it's not technically lying. just making it magical for the kids.

He's a jerk

IF they taught the true story about the REAL Santa Clause instead of this commercialized garbage we have now I would be fine with it. Still I think it's wrong to disillusion kids just because you have a burr up your arse about it.

When my girls asked about it that is when I told them the truth. That saint nick was a real person but who died over 1,000 years ago but who was such a wonderful person that we still honor his intentions because the spirit of giving that he showed to people is something to be treasured and celebrated the same way that Christ gave us the best present of all.

Good and honorable people SHOULD be celebrated. The flying deer and elves can take a hike though because I think the real story is far more impressive. If you want some light reading about it:

http://www.whychristmas.com/customs/fatherchristmas.shtml

I never believed in Santa because it wasnt logical.

and his heart was 3 sizes too small...

or he just doesn't like lying to his kids and having them think as they get older that there is no magic in the world but just a lot of fairy tales based on lies. It's far better to teach them the real history and the lessons from it that to lie IMHO. At least when they are old enough to start asking if it's true or not.

We don't know the exact day and date of Jesus' birth, or the exact date of His death.

Christian were persecuted to extreme degrees in the early days of Christianity. In order to celebrate the dates/holidays that were so very important to them, they had to disguise them a bit ..... so they celebrated them on days when other celebrations took place. While other people were celebrating pagan holidays, they were celebrating Christian holidays.

People get so hung up on whether or not dates are accurate, but that's really not the point. We don't know the exact dates involved. We do know that certain events occurred, because they were written about not only by Christians, by also by secular historians. We celebrate they fact that Jesus Christ was born, lived, died, and rose from the dead, to be the perfect sacrifice for our sins, and to save us from condemnation. Actual, exact dates are really not all that important. These are the dates that have become tradition, so there is no real need to change them. The fact that Christ came to this earth, and sacrificed Himself for our sins is what truly matters.

I've often talked about My Parents in glowing terms around here. There's always a chance that I've idealized my memory of them, but at this point, I'm not convinced of such a thing. I remember too many times when I personally thought that they 'dropped the ball' while they were raising me to believe that they were perfect parents.

That said, I'd like to believe that they MIGHT have taught me as you described, had they known. As it turns out, I didn't have this 'St. Nicholas intel' until I was in my late Middle School years. It's true- Dude was as stand-up a Human Being as this planet has ever hosted.

I'll cut My Parents some slack because:

I read this info at our local library... a place that we visited every Saturday from before I entered Kindergarten until I was old enough to drive.

Every. Single. Saturday (excluding 'family vacations... in which case, we were both loaded down with enough books to last the entire 2-3 weeks of family camping road-time...).

So... in a way, they get a pass from me, from fueling my childhood fantasy of a fat 400 year-old German man slipping into our house (we didn't have a fireplace) on THE ONE NIGHT my father, (a police officer) purposely left the door unlocked- to 'gift' us- instead of robbing us of what we already had. ...

... because they worked so very hard to give their kids the entire world, through the gift of literacy, books- and critical thought.

My illusions about Santa Claus were dispelled by the time I was 9. There were just too many logical inconsistencies for me to continue my 'blind belief.' When I dropped 'The Knowledge' on My Momz, here's what she said:


"Bobby- do you still remember how magical it felt when you thought he was real? Your sister isn't as old as you... and it should be up to her to decide when it's time to grow up. Know what you know, believe what you believe... but let her find this out for herself."

All told, I think My Momz handled it as best she could. I kept my "first adult secret" from her... and allowed her to find out on her own.

I'd like to think that if My Folks had known about the real St. Nicholas, they might have raised us differently.

If we'd ever had kids, I'd like to think that My Wife and I would have raised our kids knowing the REAL St. Nicholas.

It's actually a very cool way to reconcile little kids from the fantasy of Santa to the historical reality of St. Nick.

Your momz deserves a high five for her wisdom.

You do know all elves are just midget Vulcans don't you. Just look at the ears. They can grab kids necks to knock them out and mind meld to see if they have been naughty or nice. They build complex presents from scratch, and they are the reason Santa has lived long and prospered.

[quote=PerfectSpiral]I'm betting the Pastor doesn't believe in Science

Most people who say things like this confuse Ontological naturalism with science. Hence the misunderstanding

I don't care about Christmas trees, but to think that Jeremiah 10 is talking about Christmas trees is way off base. It's talking about Idols that people worship, bow down, and fear. Just another example of bad exegesis. You should read a passage in its context ( including its historical context)

Do you know anyone who prays to or pays homage or reveres their Christmas tree as a god? Because Jer 10 is talking about idols that are worshipped, feared, and and venerated as gods

People need to stop with this "Santa doesn't exist" hogwash.

Whatever...I'm still betting this nut (the pastor in the article) doesn't believe in science either.