DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Harvard Boys, Hue, and QBs

Oh wow. I forgot about the Kap rumors. Thank God we didn't make that move.

I have a bad feeling about this off season.

i dont think we could do a worse job. even if they tried

i heard we liked goff to. the rams went goff so we traded down...

I was surprised after watching them both, first at the combine, and then in a back to back episode of the Gruden show.

I thought Wentz clearly separated himself in those two shows.

Goff's deal (his edge) was supposed to be his accuracy (despite many bad interceptions during his Junior season).

When you saw them making the same throws, from the same camera angles, especially the one from behind the QB, you saw that Wentz could throw the ball just as accurately, with a lot more velocity. He simply looked better. His footwork also looked quicker and more polished. jmho

Maybe Cody edged em both out in the water bottle test.

Add to that the fact hes hitting the rookie wall both physically and mentally ...

Zeke is more than likely hitting the same rookie wall ....

There OL will help Zeke out ALOT ... not sure that alone can cover up Dak's rookie wall though ...

If i were Jones .. i'd play Romo as soon as they clinch home field witch should be in two weeks .. i'd let Romo play the entire game in week 17 ...

Hind sight is always 20/20. They clearly made a mistake in not getting someone else. Not sure Wentz was the guy. But maybe a prescott would have been. Dunno

I think it would be a terrible idea to play Romo.

It's Dak's team and you are on a roll. You gotta go w/it.

I seem to be getting a lot of weird feedback on this thread. Perhaps y'all are misunderstanding what my point is? Seems like a lot of you are changing the conversation around. I'll try to make it real simple:

While the sample size is small, there is indeed a sample size. Nothing is for certain because it is too early, but given what you have seen/heard........

............are you guys confident in how Hue and the FO evaluates QBs? Do you feel they are good evaluators of the position or do you have some concerns?

Is that clear enough?

I am not confident at all that these guys will get it right. I don't foresee this team getting any better in the offseason. I don't foresee this team winning a game next year either. I don't foresee Hue and Co. being around for the start of 2018 season.

I like the fact that Hue knows you can't win in the league without a QB (see the Palmer trade). However, he traded a first round pick for Palmer who was sitting on his couch at the time. He decided that Griffin was the guy he wanted to roll with, not because of his film, but because he looked into his eyes. He used that evaluation on Griffin to downplay Wentz. He liked Goff over Wentz. He liked Kessler and said "trust me" on the pick. That has been an unmitigated disaster.

There are literally no signs at all that these guys will get right. Besides QB, none of the draft picks have shown much. The only thing you can say is it can't get any worse. To which I reply ... 0-32.

Week 17 will be meaningless to them ... it gives Dak's arm an entire week or two to rest depending on how u want to play it ..

It also give Romo a chance to play in case Dak gets hurt in the playoffs ...

Also Dak has hit the rookie wall .. who knows what he will be like after 3 more weeks ..

Kids played LIGHTS OUT ... doesn't mean he's still not a rookie that could be running into that wall ....

Watch Zeke over the next 2 - 3 weeks ..

If they've clinched by week 17 .. his ass and his legs would be resting also ...

Difference of opinion, bro.

Agreed .. that happens with the great ones sometimes ... *L* ...

I'm not confident, and I do have concerns. I think one of the harder things to project is fit, which is even harder in our case because I'm not sure we know what we are trying to fit players into.

What would you call our offense? I'm not sure what technical jargon I would use (West Coast, etc) In layman's terms, it is a mess. It seems to primarily be gadget plays, vertical shots, and giving up on the run.

Most of the passing game seems to be vertical which brings questions about why Kessler then? Did we draft him to be the clipboard carrier and another set of eyes for RG3? Deep Shots would seem to fit RG3 and a solid line better. Kessler and a swiss cheese OL not so much.

It'd be a lot easier to evaluate things if RG3 hadn't gone down in week 1. The plan, whatever it was, went off the tracks quickly.

With our lack of talent, we needed a lot to go right. We got the opposite.

Things could look better in year 2, and I don't see any other viable choice but to see things through for a while. It's definitely been rough so far, though.

Here are a couple of articles about Hue's offense:

http://waitingfornextyear.com/2016/01/what-to-expect-from-hue-jacksons-new-offense/


http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/01/hue_jackson_brings_aggressive.html

I agree. I agree with Vers that it is Daks team, but rookies don't get a off season just out of college with combines, private workouts, private trainers, etc. They don't have any real down time. It's a job to them. They get burnt out just like any of us who don't play football for a living do, no matter the job. The mind needs a chance to refresh.

I'd play Romo as well for the reasons you mention. No doubt he is the #1 back-up. He needs the work just in case something happens and he is thrust in to a game of meaning....such as a playoff game. It would be dumb to not play him some over the next three games, and a lot once home field is locked.


The rest is going to help Prescott more than hurt him at this point.

I get what you and Diam are saying, but allow me to expound on my reasoning.

The 'Boys are flying high. They have the best record in the league. Interference from ownership and outside distractions have harmed them before. Jones has recently talked about Romo winning the Super Bowl.

Dak is a rookie. Why in the world would you want to mess w/his confidence?

Why in the world would you want to CREATE a QB controversy when things are going so well?

Nah man, gotta keep things status quo. Not asking you guys to agree, but I'm pretty damn sure about this one.

I don't see why it would shake his confidence or create a QB controversy ...

Dak ... the game is meaningless .. we want to rest your arm so your ready for the playoffs ... we want Tony to knock some of the rust off in case u get hurt ...

I don't get the QB controversy part Vers ...

Is Dak a "snowflake" ... *LOL* ...

Bro...........you got on Hue for saying Cody needed to throw deeper passes. LOL

Have you not followed the Dallas situation w/Jerry running his mouth about Romo?

Not asking you to agree, but putting in Romo now would be ignorant.

Then again, I hope they do. I hate the Cowboys and just like Stephen A. Smith predicted, Jerry Jones would do something to mess up what they are doing.

Lets go back to agreeing to disagree on this one ... ..

I guess I underestimated the "exotic" factor. I wonder how much that factors into our troubles. In the past has he ever implemented his O from scratch? Or has he taken over offenses and "exoticized" them? I'm thinking the latter in Cinci, but I'm not so sure on the Raiders.

The vertical passing offense still makes Kessler seem a bit of an odd fit. Maybe it was the complicated offense factor. Cody ran a bunch of different systems at USC. Not sure any of them fully prepared him for what he'd see here, unfortunately. He appears to put in the work, so we'll see how he develops.

Hopefully we'll see growth in year 2. I still sort of wish we'd had a more solid foundation built with the offense before adding the different looks. Maybe the throwing them in the deep end method will pay off down the road. Complicated systems and a young team has been rough.

You guys are two of the great ones, but IMO Diam's opinion is greater than Vers's on this subject. Haha
I'd sit Dak in week 17 for reasons diam mentioned. It wouldn't be a confidence-breaker, nor a controversy-maker.

The drafting of Cody is very significant on why I have my doubts on how this regime evaluates qbs.

I also think that questioning Hue's offense is off-base. It works. You just need the talent. We are lacking in talent.

LOL...........all those drugs you did back in the day messed w/your mind.

valid points on both sides. Just my opinion, but I would roll with Dak, he is the one getting you to the dance floor.

if you sit him, I bet he would be furious, even if he understood the reasoning.

and Romo already accepted the back up roll. I don't think I would mess with the dynamics at this point. unless it's week 17

On the recent A to Z podcast (December in Berea episode), Scott Petrak, Browns beat reporter, presented a solid case on why he has now changed his opinion that Kessler was a pick by the FO. The very short story being, that Kessler did not posses the traits that are an ideal fit for Hue's vertical passing attack. He went on to explain that he has since considered Hue's comments of "trust me on this one," lead him to believe Hue was being a good soldier and maintaining a united front. Ultimately, however, the pick was the that of the FO, in his opinion.

As far as my confidence level on the FO and Hue getting the QB position right or anything right for that matter, I have about a 1% confidence level and that feels generous. Quite frankly, it all starts with Haslam.

This organization is more of a mess than the Deep Water Horizon BP oil spill.

I went on record the day that he was drafted that I didn't like the Kessler pick, but that I would shut up and go with it if that is the guy that Hue wanted. I wanted Dak with that pick or Cardale a round or two later. I got even more pessimistic in the preseason as Kessler looked like a deer in headlights.

I was pleasantly surprised in Kessler's first start and could finally see what Hue saw in him. Even then, I thought he was at best a future back-up, but every team needs one. Maybe that is exactly what Hue had in mind.

He's a rookie that wasn't supposed to play at all this year and did much better than I thought that he would do if thrown in.

He takes too long to process but more importantly, needs more confidence in himself. Even having a weaker arm, he can make some throws that he refuses to try.

We might as well throw in the two games from RG3. Again I wasn't a huge fan when we got him, but I was fine with giving him a shot given the choices that were out there. I was shocked about how much progress RG3 made in his first start, and had hope that in time Hue would work wonders with him. Once he got hurt though, I knew that any progress made in the off-season would be lost. Mechanics and read progressions take tons and tons of practice before they stick for good and he was bound to revert back to habit. The RG3 that we saw last week was even worse because he had always been accurate before and suddenly couldn't hit a barn door with another barn door. I'm not buying rust. I don't think he's fully over his injury. Maybe it's still affecting his throws. Anyway, it's impossible to write him off after two games and also impossible to write off a rookie QB after 4 games.

So, to sum up a bunch of rambling with more rambling...

I might not be inspired by our QB choices this year, but I am not worried either. Hue does seem to get more out of QB's than I thought was possible in the short amount of time that he has had. Heck, he even made clipboard Jesus look passable for a week. I would have personally have had a fit if we picked Wentz at #2 because even though I liked him better than Goff, I didn't think he was worth the high pick for a team with so many other needs. I believe that you and I were in agreement on that. So I'm not about to condemn the team for doing exactly what I wanted them to do in the first place. Hindsight would be bad enough, but hypocritical hindsight is even worse.

I'm not concerned with the offense (end result/scheme) so much as the implementation of it. A massive play book is great when you have an experienced team with common knowledge to fall back on/relate to. When breaking in 2 new QBs, 4 rookie WRs, a rookie TE, 2 rookie OL, and another 2nd year OL trying to get comfortable at C, the big play book seems a rather large mental challenge when a majority of the players are adjusting to the speed of the game already. I'd argue (not vehemently, more propose that perhaps) we're missing experience as much as talent, and the more different plays run the less experience they have with each one. I guess trying to have everything installed for next year could pay dividends and we're getting high Draft picks, but you've brought up the detriments of losing and I can't help but wonder if being more focused on certain plays could have let us be more competitive.

I think the "new" practice limits really hamper how much you can effectively install and get running properly. I guess I like the "plan" of the offense, but I'm conflicted about the process of getting there.

I agree with you that we are lacking in talent, and would add that we are also lacking in experience.

I think that this combination is why our defense has struggled so much. Horton's defense is very complex, and we had a bunch of young players trying to figure it all out without veterans who were experienced in his defense to show them the way and help them out as they went along.

Wait a Sec Vers.

Are you understanding what Diam said?

He's saying IF they wrapped up Home Field throughout and game 16 means NOTHING, then sit Dak. Not sit him NOW.

If game 16 is a fight for Home Field, you definitely stick with what got you there.

And to answer the original question. After bringing in Griffin and taking Kessler where we did, yeah I've got serious reservations about these guys and QBs.

What could ease those concerns? Interest in Garoppolo and Trubisky.

Speaking of Trubisky I ran across this video on twitter yesterday:

Link

I'm not sure that it really means anything, but an interesting video. Randomly brought to mind Brady Quinn, though I don't think it's a particularly good comparison.

Yup, it's clear. I'm not confident. At least not based on one off season history. (like you said, small sample)

None of them, save maybe Andrew Berry, have been the top guy picking a QB before. So it's pretty new for them.

I have to believe there is a learning curve.. Hopefully, they figure it out quickly.

Side note: QB is what this thread is about, but the problems go way beyond that.

Garrett and switch to a 4-3 base. Garrett/Shelton/Bryant/Ogbah isn't a terrible front 4.

I saw that; Belicheck and Patricia do odd things like that from time to time though.