DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Front Office...continued

peen...the nfl already uses the spread formation in both the run game and passing. What the NFL does not do is risk their QBs health by running him around or use the option play on a regular basis.

The spread formation is being used with great effectiveness with pocket passing QBs and has been for a number of years.

The role of the college QB in the spread formation will not be the same when that QB reaches the NFL because simply put, a QBs arm is much more valuable than his legs.

In the NFL they already spread the field and run an up-tempo offense (at times), but NFL QBs will not be exposed to the same risks that HS and college spread offense QBs are today.


Posted by Grimm: Football players risk injury every time they step on the field. I really don't think there is a substantial difference between pocket and dual threat QBs as far as injury rate, and if there is it is partially attributable to "running QBs" trying to stick in the pocket.

Peyton Manning got hurt in the pocket, Brady in the pocket, Drew Brees, Drew Bledsoe, etc. It's a violent game, and players get hurt.

Top story is from the Browns website concerning claiming RB Darius Jackson.

The second story is from the Cowboys website, concerning the losing Jackson to the Browns.

Browns claim RB Darius Jackson


Posted 13 hours ago
link

Rookie from EMU comes from Cowboys

The Cleveland Browns have claimed RB Darius Jackson via waivers from Dallas. To make room on the roster, the team waived LB Corey Lemonier.

Jackson is a 6-0, 220 pound rookie out of Eastern Michigan. Originally selected by Dallas in the sixth round, he was inactive for all 13 games this season. Jackson rushed for 1,078 yards and scored 16 touchdowns during his senior season at EMU. He is a native of Sparta, Ill.

Lemonier appeared in eight games this season and logged nine tackles, two sacks, one forced fumble and one fumble recovery.



The story below is from the Cowboys website, concerning them losing RB Darius Jackson to the Browns, via waivers.


He Gone: Cowboys' Darius Jackson claimed by Browns

By: Zeke Barrera | 10 hours ago
link

POIt didn’t take long for the first casualty of the Cowboys 2016 draft class to find a new home. Just one day after Dallas cut RB Darius Jackson, the Cleveland Browns claimed him.

Adam Schefter ✔@AdamSchefter
Browns claimed promising rookie RB Darius Jackson on waivers one day after Dallas released him to make room for Darren McFadden, per source.
4:04 PM - 14 Dec 2016

Starting in the fourth week of the regular season, the waiver order is based on the reverse order of the standings-if multiple teams make a claim on the same player, the team with with the lower winning percentage is awarded the player. With the Browns’ winning percentage currently at .000, Jackson wasn’t without a home for long.

Jackson was the second of three sixth round picks for Dallas during this past draft. The former Eastern Michigan product had the SPARQ measurables the Cowboys covet, and had all the makings of a true, three down back. As a senior, he carried the ball 208 times for 1,088 yards and 14 touchdowns, and also caught 21 passes for another 201 yards and two touchdowns.

His selection at the time was something of a head scratcher, considering the number of other running backs the Cowboys already had in place. Some speculated that because of the glut of RBs, UDFAs would be less inclined to sign with Dallas, so they opted to use one of their sixth round picks to get some quality RB depth of their choosing, even if the player ended up being nothing more than a camp body.

However Jackson, along with Alfred Morris, got a long look at training camp and during the preseason, with Darren McFadden and Ezekiel Elliott both missing time due to injury. Jackson ran the ball 40 times for 141 yards in the four preseason games, flashing his potential as an NFL caliber running back. Alas, it just wasn’t meant to be as a Cowboy. The opportunity to show what he could do during the regular season never materialized, and when faced with the decision of who to let go to make room for the returning McFadden, Jackson was the odd man out.

With the Browns, Jackson is joins other running backs Isaiah Crowell, Duke Johnson, and George Atkinson. Crowell is an undrafted player in his third NFL season. He’s rushed for 718 yards and five touchdowns this season, and is a restricted free agent in the offseason. Johnson is used mostly as a pass catcher out of the backfield, so it’s possible for Jackson to carve out a long-term role for himself in Cleveland.

Cam Newton, Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, Mariota, RG3, Wentz. Those are just the ones off the top of my head. The times, they are a changing.

A QB can be dual threat and survive in the NFL. They have to be smart about it and protect themselves as much as possible, but it can put added pressure on a defense.

They do have to be able to pass, too. RG3 has been underwhelming there in the games that have counted this year. I'll give him a slight pass for the last game as it was his first coming off an injury that was supposed to have ended his season. While he's been cleared to play, I'm not sure he has full faith in the shoulder yet. He does need to play much better if he's going to stick around.

Aaron Rodgers, Matt stafford, Andrew luck.

All guys who have made monster plays with their legs as well.

Would you include Rodgers? Dual threat is really subjective. Wish RG3 was more threatening. A decent runner who can lob it deep. Not sure his execution makes the grade.

j/c:

Way too early draft look: Carson Wentz trade looking better for Browns

BEREA, Ohio -- How's that Carson Wentz trade looking now?

The Philadelphia Eagles lost again on Sunday, dropping them to 5-8 and putting them 10th in the draft order.That means the Cleveland Browns today would have two of the draft's top-10 picks -- theirs, which figures to be first overall, and Philadelphia's, which is 10th.

In theory, the Browns could solve a defensive need and still draft a quarterback like DeShone Kizer or Mitch Trubisky, assuming the team deems both or either worthy of a top-10 pick.The Browns acquired the pick from the Eagles in a pre-draft trade that saw them move out of the second overall pick in last year's draft.The Browns got the Eagles' first-round pick last year and this, as well as a third-round choice in in April. The Eagles keep making that deal look better; they have lost six of seven and dropped from 3-0 to 5-8.

It's conceivable the Browns could have two of the top five or six picks. Philadelphia has the Baltimore Ravens, New York Giants and Dallas Cowboys left, and ESPN analytics does not have them favored to win any of those three games.

The Eagles are thrilled with Wentz. The Browns and especially VP of football operations Sashi Brown have maintained that the trade that sent Wentz to the Eagles cant be judged because the Browns still have the picks in the upcoming draft.Those choices could go a long way in building a team -- provided the Browns get the picks right.

Their choice at first overall may not be that complex, either. ESPN's Adam Schefter reported that the team has an "astronomical" grade on Texas A&M defensive end Myles Garrett. If that's true, the choice is easy. It should be Garrett.

An astronomical grade implies a special player, and a team that has an astronomical grade would be foolish to pass on that player.If the Browns have that grade, Garrett should be the pick.He's not a quarterback, but he checks almost every box. He's a pass-rusher, and having the guy who can get the quarterback is the second most important facet of a team.Garrett is athletic, fast, strong. He rushes the passer. He's also met every test of high character there is. He's a fascinating player dedicated to doing good outside football, a guy who has been inspired by Maya Angelou.If that grade is astronomical, he should be the guy.

However, Todd McShay put out his first mock draft on Wednesday and Garrett was not the pick. McShay gave Alabama defensive lineman Jonathan Allen to the Browns.Both Garrett and Allen are special players in college, though Allen's grade has not leaked.

But in some ways Allen fits the Browns defense better than Garrett. He's more of a 3-4, two-gap lineman who could step right into the 3-4. Garrett may have to adjust from playing with his hand on the ground to playing standing up.

Regardless, if the Browns go with either Garrett or Allen, they would wind up with what should be a strong addition to the defense.

That's the first pick.

Philadelphia provides the second, and their struggles represent the only real positive about this long, miserable season in Cleveland.

http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-brown...tter-for-browns

The trade itself MIGHT have worked out. We might get a top 10 out of this.

However, Wentz has 5 wins. That's half the win total of our last 3 seasons as of right now.

I honestly don't know that if we had Wentz we'd be any better. Perhaps a little but who knows for sure. Would the browns have started him, would the scheme here have fit him as well as the scheme in Philly did in the beginning? Injuries to our Oline wouldn't have helped much.

Long term, I Wentz may be better than anything we have, but I'm not sure he's better than anything we can get we'll see I guess

The trade will have worked out if a couple of our guys from last years draft pan out and we get a couple impact players this year and a couple other solid starters.. and Wentz doesn't go on to be a really elite QB..

Well, we could not be worse if we had Wentz. Even if we would still be 0 for the season with Wentz, we would not be looking for a QB.

Short term thinker my friend.


I don't feel any worse at Zero wins then at 3 wins. We need to be looking towards 10-12 wins.



Just improving the team isn't my goal. I want a good to great team.

So, you are saying that stiffs like Coleman improves the team more than Wentz would.

Goodness.

Have to get 3 wins before you can get 10. This team is a long way off from even getting 3.

I mean, the team wouldnt..

But this board would be lighting Wentz figurines on fire if our #2 Overall QB was winless..

I didn't say that.

This.

Every Browns fan I associate-with feels that EXACT same way. None are happy with losing...none are hung up on being winless...none want to fire anyone (except for me and Tabor). All understand what was done, who we were at the beginning of the year, and who we are now.

Oh goodie , a chance to say it again !

I want Horton gone and Hue to have a play calling OC ( HUE TO BE head coach )

I was disappointed to hear the news that the Browns front office is not likely to get Terrelle Pryor's done by before the end of the season. The season does not end until Jan 1, so there is still some time, but it sure looks like the Browns front office is calling a time out to negotiations.

Below is a graph showing the 2016 values for the Franchise Tag and the Transition Tag...if anyone wants compare to last year's value.



2016 NFL franchise tag values for every position

ESPN.com
Feb 27, 2016
link

With the salary cap coming in at a record of more than $155 million, the franchise tag/transition tag values for each position are officially set. Here's a quick breakdown, along with a current player at each position whose annual salary is comparable. Teams have until March 1 to use either tag.
2016 NFL franchise tag values for every position

POS...FRAN TAG.....COMPARE TO-------------TRAN TAG.....COMPARE TO...

..QB..$19.953M...Drew Brees ($20M)..........$17.696M....Matthew Stafford ($17.7M)
..RB..$11.789M...Jamaal Charles ($9.1M)......$9.647M....Arian Foster ($8.7M)
..WR $14.599M...Julio Jones ($14.3M).........$12.368M....Mike Wallace ($12.0M)
..TE..$9.118M.....Rob Gronkowski ($9.0M).....$7.714M....Charles Clay ($7.6M)
..OL..$13.706M...Trent Williams ($13.2M)....$11.902M....Joe Thomas ($11.5M)
..DE..$15.701M...J.J. Watt ($16.7M)............$12.734M...Charles Johnson ($12.7M)
..DT..$13.651M...Gerald McCoy ($13.6M).....$10.875M...Geno Atkins ($10.7M)
..LB..$14.129M...Clay Matthews ($13.2M).....$11.925M...Luke Kuechly ($12.4M)
..CB..$13.952M...Richard Sherman ($14M)...$11.913M...Byron Maxwell ($10.5M)
..S...$10.806M....Earl Thomas ($10.0M)......$9.116M.....Jairus Byrd ($9.0M)
K/P $4.572M......S. Gostkowski ($4.2M)......$4.123M.....Britton Colquitt ($3.9M)

Fair enough.

I should add that all the people I mentioned also want Hue to hire an OC. Many in that group wanted Horton canned earlier this year, but that sentiment has gone away over the past few games.

To be fair, Mac, you don't know who the heck is stalling negotiations.


Your comment was fair until that final commentarty. The reality is probably the opposite. Players and agents are the one's most likely to see things go to the open market at this point.


I will say this, the time to get Pryor on the cheap was to sign him 6-7 weeks ago. I think he would have jumped. Then again, we don't know that we didn't try, but probably not. At that point it was more the Browns tossing the dice.


Mac, we agree more than you think. It's usually the final comments, skewed against the FO/Mgmt that turn me off.


Try to find a point of balance my friend. It isn't as one sided as you think.


JMO

Like the previous FO tried to do with Mack.

Cleveland Browns: Front Office Effectively Working Fringes

By Peter Smith/FanSided via NFL Spin Zone
Dec 15, 2016 at 5:38p ET
The Cleveland Browns front office has done an excellent job taking advantages to improve the roster during this season.

Most of the focus for this season is on the 14 players the Cleveland Browns selected in the 2016 NFL Draft. 12 of those players are on the current roster with Trey Caldwell on the practice squad and Scooby Wright signed off of their practice squad to the active roster of the Arizona Cardinals. The front office has done an excellent job of manipulating their roster to essentially add extra draft picks and talent in general as other teams got pinched by roster constraints.

The most recent example is Darius Jackson, formerly of the Dallas Cowboys. A sixth-round pick, Jackson was waived to make room for the recently activated Darren McFadden. The Cowboys also selected Ezekiel Elliot with the fourth-overall pick of the draft and have Alfred Morris and Lance Dunbar on their active roster. They likely released Jackson in the hope that they could get him to their practice squad.

The Browns didn’t select a running back in the 2016 draft and now end up with the most athletically gifted one in the entire class.

Aug 13, 2016; Los Angeles, CA, USA; Los Angeles Rams linebacker Cameron Lynch (50) misses a tackle on Dallas Cowboys running back Darius Jackson (34) in the second half of the game at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum. Rams won 28-14. Mandatory Credit: Jayne Kamin-Oncea-USA TODAY Sports
Aug 13, 2016; Los Angeles, CA, USA; Los Angeles Rams linebacker Cameron Lynch (50) misses a tackle on Dallas Cowboys running back Darius Jackson (34) in the second half of the game at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum. Rams won 28-14. Mandatory Credit: Jayne Kamin-Oncea-USA TODAY Sports

Darius Jackson

Height: 6-0
Weight: 220 lbs
40-yard Dash: 4.40s
3-cone Drill: 6.87s
20-yard Shuttle: 4.29s
Vertical Jump: 41″
Broad Jump: 11-1
Bench Press: 20 reps

It’s incredible for anyone to put up these type of numbers, let alone someone Jackson’s size. In Jackson’s senior year at Eastern Michigan, he rushed for 1,078 yards on 208 attempts with 14 touchdowns. He also caught 21 passes for 201 yards and two more touchdowns.

If Jackson doesn’t play a down for the remaining three games, it’s a great move. The Browns would have Jackson in their offseason program and have him for training camp. This allows Jackson to learn the team’s playbook and get coached by Kirby Wilson, who is an excellent running backs coach.

Assuming the Browns sign restricted free agent Isaiah Crowell (they should), they would have a talented stable of backs with Crowell, Duke Johnson and Jackson. And while Crowell and Johnson are good athletes, Jackson is substantially better than both.

For context, take a look at Crowell’s and Johnson’s testing numbers.

Isaiah Crowell

Height: 5-11
Weight: 224 lbs
40-yard Dash: 4.57s
3-cone Drill: 7.28s
20-yard Shuttle: 4.56s
Vertical Jump: 38″
Broad Jump: 9-9
Bench Press: 23 reps

Duke Johnson

Height: 5-9.125
Weight: 208 lbs
40-yard Dash: 4.51s
3-cone Drill: 6.88s
20-yard Shuttle: 4.16s
Vertical Jump: 35″
Broad Jump: 10-1
Bench Press: 18 reps

Crowell and Johnson are both good athletes. It just goes to show how extraordinary Jackson is and why this is such an obvious move for the Browns. If can play anywhere near his physical talent, he’s a steal. Jackson is the latest example of this type of roster manipulation, but he’s certainly not the only one from this year.


Nov 20, 2016; Cleveland, OH, USA; Cleveland Browns defensive end Tyrone Holmes (91) before the game against the Pittsburgh Steelers at FirstEnergy Stadium. Mandatory Credit: Scott R. Galvin-USA TODAY Sports

Tyrone Holmes

Height: 6-2.25
Weight: 253 lbs.
40-yard Dash: 4.59s
3-cone Drill: 7.00s
20-yard Shuttle: 4.30s
Vertical Jump: 37.5″
Broad Jump: 9-5
Bench Press: 28 reps

Tyrone Holmes was selected in the sixth round of this past year’s draft by the Jacksonville Jaguars. They opted to let him go on the final cut down day and Browns scooped up the athletic pass rusher out of Montana. In 2015, Holmes recorded 32 tackles, 18 sacks, 24 tackles for loss, and forced three fumbles.

It didn’t cost the Browns a pick, only a roster spot. Holmes has actually played, albeit in a limited role for the Browns. He has played in 10 games, recording a pair of tackles and a sack.

Holmes gives the Browns another athletic edge rusher to look at and develop over the course of the offseason. If he can just become a nice role player that can come in and get after the passer, that would be a valuable pick up and it comes with no risk.

Dan Vitale

Height: 6-0.875
Weight: 239 lbs
40-yard Dash: 4.60s
3-cone Drill: 7.12s
20-yard Shuttle: 4.12s
Vertical Jump: 38.5″
Broad Jump: 10-3
Bench Press: 30 reps

The “super back” from Northwestern, Vitale was a sixth-round pick by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. After he was released by the Bucs, the Bills claimed him, but failed him on their physical over a concern with his shoulder. The Browns opted to scoop him up and dropped Malcolm Johnson, a sixth-round pick from 2015, and the team’s starting fullback at that time, was released.

Vitale is a terrific athlete. He’s largely a tight end in a fullback’s body. The issue with Vitale at Northwestern was that he was not committed as a blocker and was just ineffective in that part of his game. If he can learn and embrace it, he’s a nice weapon for this offense.

Much to former Browns head coach Sam Rutigliano’s chagrin, the play call that had Robert Griffin III pass to Vitale near the goal line that didn’t work is exactly where Vitale has excelled in his career. In his final year for Northwestern, Vitale caught 33 passes for 355 yards and four touchdowns. He was a featured part of their offense for that exact reason.

Unfortunately for Vitale, he dropped the ball Sunday thereby missing a huge opportunity, but that is one of the roles they want him to be able to perform. He is a potential matchup problem and can create separation against linebackers. The hope is that Vitale’s upside will allow him to become a true dual threat fullback.

Anthony Fabiano

Height: 6-3.75
Weight: 303 lbs.
40-yard Dash: 5.04s
3-cone Drill: 7.41s
20-yard Shuttle: 4.42s
Vertical Jump: 32.5″
Broad Jump: 9-0
Bench Press: 25 reps

Fabiano was a terrific guard at Harvard. He was supposed to attend the Senior Bowl, but could not attend because of an injury. His line mate, Cole Toner, attended the Senior Bowl and was drafted by the Arizona Cardinals in the fifth round. Ben Braunecker, a tight end from Harvard, was signed as an undrafted free agent by the Chicago Bears. He also tested incredibly well, but a shoulder injury ultimately kept him from being drafted.

Of the three, Fabiano was considered to have the most talent by many who follow the Ivy League. And his athletic testing results are outstanding. He actually compares quite well to Joel Bitonio, who is a terrific athlete in his own right. Fabiano was been up and down between the practice squad and the active roster. He’s currently on the active roster and the hope is he’ll stay there, so like the others, they’ll have control of him in the offseason.

Fabiano, who has also taken reps at center, gives the Browns a nice developmental lineman with versatility and upside. Along with Shon Coleman, the team’s third round pick, who hasn’t seen much of the field this year, Fabiano could have a terrific offseason and go from a fringe roster guy to a role player with the upside to eventually start.


Sep 25, 2016; Miami Gardens, FL, USA; Miami Dolphins quarterback Ryan Tannehill (17) tries to tackle Cleveland Browns cornerback Briean Boddy-Calhoun (20) in the end zone after Boddy-Calhoun intercepted a pass for touchdown during the first half at Hard Rock Stadium. Mandatory Credit: Steve Mitchell-USA TODAY Sports

Briean Boddy-Calhoun

Height: 5-9.5
Weight: 193 lbs.
40-yard Dash: 4.47s
3-cone Drill: 7.16s
20-yard Shuttle: 4.22s
Vertical Jump: 35″
Broad Jump: 10-4
Bench Press: 10 reps

Calhoun is the most well-known example of how the Browns have attacked the fringes to add talent. Calhoun was an undrafted free agent that signed with the Jaguars and like Tyrone Holmes, was released on the final cut down day. The Browns scooped him up and while he has struggled at times, he’s had moments where he’s shined.

In nine games for the Browns, Calhoun has recorded 32 tackles, a sack, two interceptions—one of which that went for a touchdown—and nine pass deflections. For a secondary that has obvious holes to fill, Calhoun has been a pleasant surprise. Along with the recently extended Jamar Taylor, they have a couple young corners with a good amount of reps under their belt heading into 2017.

Trae Elston

Height: 5-11.25
Weight: 193 lbs
40-yard Dash: 4.50s
3-cone Drill: 7.34s
20-yard Shuttle: 4.50s
Vertical Jump: 34.5″
Broad Jump: 9-11
Bench Press: DNP

After Derrick Kindred went down for the season with an ankle injury, the Browns opted to add free safety in Elston. In his senior year at Ole Miss, Elston recorded 44 tackles, five tackles for loss, four interceptions with two touchdowns and 14 pass deflections.

Elston originally signed as an undrafted free agent with the New Orleans Saints. After being released there, he was on the Buccaneers practice squad for five weeks.

Elston is a pretty explosive athlete going forward, which is a trait the Browns favor. His agility is a major concern, so he has to be right about his reads to reduce the amount of time he needs to change direction. The other issue which works against Elston is his lack of size.

It’s not realistic to expect Elston to suddenly put on ten pounds in the offseason, but he can get stronger and work on some of his other flaws. His explosion and production make him someone the Browns might want to see in training camp next year.

Now, here’s the scary part for many who follow and in many cases cover the Browns. This is the organization utilizing analytics. It’s not some inexplicable form of magic. It’s simply taking data and picking up on trends and characteristics they believe lead to success and working to add players with them. Imagine using data and numbers to confirm what they are seeing on tape to help them improve their scouting process and get the entire organization on the same page. It might be worth a shot.

Whether it was the vast majority of the players the team selected in the draft or adding Jamie Collins, these players bring many of the same attributes to the table – Production, explosion, and character.

The Browns seem to like SPARQ or at least have used it as a reference point. They have cited it when explaining picks and the team’s media often cites it. SPARQ is a tool that can measure certain athletic traits with the goal of predicting potential, giving one number to sum up a player.

Going deeper into it, the traits they favor are explosive traits. Specifically, the vertical and broad jump as well as the 40-yard dash. Corey Coleman, Emmanuel Ogbah, Ricardo Louis, Seth DeValve all performed well in these areas. Jamie Collins, who was added during the season, was fantastic in these areas. It shouldn’t be surprising that these players have as well.

The Browns have added players with significant production. Of the players discussed here, Jackson has the lowest amount of it and he recorded 1,299 yards and 16 touchdowns.

Last but not least, the Browns have avoided players with issues off the field. Not a single player the Browns drafted had been arrested or anything along those lines. Neither has Collins. Of these six players, Elston is the only one that has run afoul of the law. On January 23rd of 2015, Elston was arrested along with Ole Miss teammate Damore’ea Stringfellow for disorderly conduct. He apologized for the incident.

There’s minimal risk with Elston. The investment is nothing and if he does something stupid, they can simply cut him. If they are going to take a risk, this is the way to do it and Elston’s offense is not some vicious offense.

An area the team is not likely to receive much credit, the Cleveland Browns front office has been proactive during the season to continue to add talent. There’s plenty of reason to be optimisitc about what they’ve added as well, given their upside. In all, the team has added three extra sixth round picks and three undrafted rookies, all of which will be part of the team through the offseason and training camp as long as they stay on the roster through the final three games. It’s up to the coaching staff to make these players work, but the front office is doing everything they can to give the team players that can be successful.

This article originally appeared on

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/cleveland-browns-front-office-effectively-working-fringes-121516

I am "Grateful" for that read, "Dawg".

Thanks.

Mac let me try to explain this to you once more.

Lets say you go out for dinner and order pasta. The pasta needs to cook for 9-11 minutes. Do you run into the kitchen, demand that they stop cooking the pasta after 2 minutes, then run around all year screaming about how they can't make good pasta and their pasts sucks because it wasn't boiled long enough?

I mean thats what you have done all year around here. Wait till the meal is prepared the way they want to prepare it, THEN once you taste it AFTER it is done then you can judge if it's good or it sucks.

I can honestly see you grabbing a handful of barley, hops and yeast during your 2 minute wait on the pasta and stuff them in your mouth while screaming about how bad the beer taste's as well.

Great analogy. However, what if you go out to dinner and order lasagna. The waiter tells you that the "chefs" in the kitchen use cottage cheese instead of ricotta. They use elbow macaroni instead of lasagna noodles. They use ketchup instead of tomato sauce. They use baloney instead of ground meat.

Should you trust that the meal is going to be absolutely delicious or do you question the judgement of using such ingredients?

I would say that Farmer must have been that chef and no one would eat there once reality set in - until a new chef came in and was given time to turn things around. It would be tough on the ownership to be patient since the customers/fans would be wary, but that's the bed that was made.

Well since the chefs told me ahead of time why would I be suprised when they delivered it to me?

I am talking about your witch hunt, and your unwillingness to give the front office time to succeed or fail. You just keep bitching about the results of their plan before it's even finished.

When you buy this.



Don't expect this.

0-14, that's failure. How many years do we have to keep these bums before 1-15 is a reasonable expectation?

2 to 3 more years. If you don't have the gonads for it don't watch. But if we are 1-15 in 2018 I will grab a pitchfork and join you.

I don't buy either, and I just reminded myself not to come to your house for dinner