DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Terrelle Pryor's extension unlikely to come by season's end, Isaiah Crowell still aiming for 1,000 and more

We have guys who can do this for a lot less money:

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/searc...905732d40d1fe70

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highl...ch-interception

If you think Gipson is anywhere near the $$$ he got, you really should watch the Jags this year.

funny how almost every thread is turned into a Scwartz thread...and no Mack already stated he wanted to play else where...not sure how many times we have to re-hash this same topic.

We are trying to aquire talent.

Through the draft.

If you want to see what can happen when you spend a bunch of money on FAs, just look at the Jaguars, Dolphins, and Redskins of years past..

The flip side of that is teams like Oakland and NYG, the overriding factor those two teams have is a QB.

Your not missing anything Diam, but the reason the Browns offer was pulled was because Schwartz's agent showed no interest in the offer when it was made and they didn't want to be used just to drive up what KC was offering him.

Gipson highlight

You guys saying that there was no way that Mack would stay over and over again does not make it true. But, I was asking Diam. Not you. You have already proven to have an agenda, just like the guy who says that Gipson is overpaid. Our poor safety play has been an issue all year. Jax was second in pass defense last time I checked.

that same argument was used around here a few seasons ago.

and the same counter holds true. they're 2nd in pass defense because they are 23rd against the run.

teams don't need to throw, they just run all over them.

And that translates into Gipson sucking? Great argument.

Every coach that has coached Gipson loved the guy. Gipson made the Pro-Bowl. He is young. Only 26. He is a very good FS and a bunch of homers who have an agenda isn't going to change that fact.

I am glad you guys are so happy w/losing and putting out a terrible product out there.

And the same guys who were bashing me for criticizing Farmer are the same guys acting like I don't have a clue about this FO. LOL........it's amazing how y'all don't skip a beat even when reality punches you right in the face.

no, but that translates to your comment about them being 2nd in pass defense.

the rest of your comment is pointless so there's no point in addressing that.

so yea, when teams aren't electing to throw on you because they can run it down your throat, then the pass defensive ranking becomes muggy.

especially when you take into account that they are last in the league in INT with only 3, and 21st in opponent's QB rating at 93.3, which tells you that when teams do decide pass, they are having pretty good success.

and that right there does translate to gipson maybe not sucking, but not being that good this year, either.

And once again your forgetting the bad blood that was developing between him and the FO, when they tagged him with a 2nd rd. tender instead of a 1st. He even held out and didn't participate in OTA's. He was upset and I don't think the FO really cared one way or another. At least I don't think they brought him in and talked to him about it. They just let him brood and then cuts ties.

Pointless? Take a hike!

lol of course that's the only part you respond to.

There's only one guy that I wish we would have kept and that's Schwartz. I knew we didn't have a chance to keep Mack and we did offer him more money. Gipson wasn't worth what he signed for.

The guy spouting stats for the Jax defense should try watching some games. Gipson sucks this year.

Haden has made the Pro Bowl twice before and sucked this year too.

I think in that deal with Schwartz GREED was the reason the deal wasn't done and I think it was the agent for Schwartz that caused the riffs.

Schwartz's brother being in his ear telling him to get out of Cleveland all the time didn't help matters either.

I swore I'd never talk about this one with u again ... we simply disagree ... but this is a legite question so I'll answer it ... and to be honest I'm not sure why .. your mind is clearly made up and u make that PERFECTLY CLEAR when u say ... "when the REAL FACT is he flew back from cali" .. thats the ONLY FACT u want to focus on ... u IGNORE everything leading up to that ..

I showed those PESKY DETAILS to point out what actually happend with Schwartz cause those with the "this FO can do no wrong" agenda use revisionist history to make there point .. they CHANGE WHAT HAPPEND .. u don't do that ... u just IGNORE anything that happend up til Mack flew back for the meeting ...

Sorry bro .. we just don't se this one the same way ... i actually give our SCUMBAG owner and this FO that i believe is DOOMED TO FAILURE credit for getting him back here to even have the opportunity for him to re-sign here ..

Now for the ENTIRE HISTORY ... lets start with the SCUMABG buying the team ...

- Mack in 3 years had seen 2 HC's and two FO's be FIRED ... so in the scumbags 4th year he was about to see his 3rd HC and his 3rd FO ... thats in 4 years bro ...

- we were coming off a 3 - 13 year ... with not much talent and way more questions than answers .. has Mack ever played on a winning team since coming here? .. serious question .. if he has it was one at most ..

- he OPTED OUT OF HIS CONTRACT ... and not for money .. he said he WANTED OUT ... thats what he said .. MORE THAN ONCE ... he made it perfectly clear he didn't want to be a part of this dysfunction and LOSING anymore .... look what he went through just the year before with Shanny .. that was RIDICOULOUS .... can u blame him? .. the SCUMBAGS ownership has been a dismal failure on EVERY LEVEL ... we are the model of a DYSFUNCTIONAL ORGANAZATION ... on EVERY LEVEL ...

- He then gets an offer to go to Atlanta and play for Shanny with a gaping hole at Center .. sounds like what he was looking for .. a chance to win and a chance to play on an O with a TON OF TALENT and an OC he knows quite well ..

- then the SCUMBAG and the Hue/Moneyballers get him back to what IMO was a HUGE LONGSHOT to get him back .. they realized how important he was to this team ... IMO getting him back here to even listen was a HUGE COUP ...

I thought the odds of Mack re-signing here after the meeting were SLIM to NONE ... its not like his MOTIVES for wanting to leave had changed .. even if he BELIEVED Hue/FO could live up to whatever they said in the meeting, why in the hell would he believe the SCUMBAG would all of a sudden have patience and more importantly .. why would he think we were going to be ready to win in the NEXT 3 OR 4 YEARS??? ..

His MOTIVES and REASONS for wanting out after the season had not changed ... all we did was hire Hue and bring in MONEYBALL ..

The fact he didn't turn us down before he boarded his plane back to Cali was a win for us .. *L* .. the fact he had to think about it for 24 -- 48 hours actually did surprise me ..

U want to ignore his DESIRE to leave for legite reasons and act like the fact he agreed to come back for a meeting meant that we had a "legite" shot to sign him .. thats your prerogative .... I didn't see it that way .. I thought is was a "hail mary" at best ..

As for Gipson .. i've stood fairly quiet on him for a few reasons ...

BOTTOM LINE: .. Sashi said we would be re-signing our own as a part of the plan .. appearantly when he said "our" own literally meant the guys him and hue/moneyballers brought in ... *L* ..

I was not a big fan of Gipson .. thought he was overrated .. also thought it was a MISTAKE to let him walk .. we simply had to many holes and a ton of salary cap room ..

To me . Schwartz was the poster child for last off seasons MISTAKES .. plus more facts are known about what went on with him ..

Like u said .. were not even sure if Gipson was even offered a contract .. to be fair .. he also talked about wanting out ..

No clue exactly how this one went down .. hence why i've stood relatively quiet on it ..

I do believe it was a mistake if we indeed did let him walk .. STUPID actually .. and i was no fan of Gipsons ...

I understand were trying to aquire talent through the draft ... i AGREE with that ... best way to build a team ..

Question for u ..

Do u understand the fact that not all FA's COST the SAME ...

I didn't say I wanted HIGH PRICED FA'S that kill a team .... i would have LOVED to have seen one or two 2nd or even 3rd tier FA's signed last year ... guys u don't overpay for and don't put abusive dents in your cap space ...

Same with this year .. i want no big splash FA's for us this year .... but feel we have to sign at least 2 mid level guys ... we just have too many holes at this point and rookies are rookies ....

As long as they had a reason for it .... ...

Thats just a DUMB ASS reason to pull an offer ... STUPID ....

We'll see how they treat Pryor/Collins this year if they don't sign between now and the day FA starts ....

I don't blame a guy who just plain wants out of this circus regardless of any offer! It doesn't have to be greed or any other reason. It's just a plain crappy place to play since the return.

I appreciate your lengthy response, but I have to say that I think you are misunderstanding me. I am NOT saying that it's a fact that Mack wanted to return. I am saying there is no factual evidence that he was gone "no matter what." The fact that he flew back from Cali after the season shows he was at least considering a return.

I have fought against all the homers who make things up and say that he was gone no matter what. They say that to defend or make make excuses for the FO.

There is a guy or two on here who say I have an agenda. LOL. That agenda is..........let's keep it real, be honest, and don't make crap up. Their agenda is to defend the FO by making crap up. Big difference, bro. It's been going on for years and I am to the point that I am beyond sick of the same guys making crap up all the time and then acting like the realists are the crazy ones.

As far as Gipson goes..........why get rid of a 26 year old former Pro Bowl player when you have a ton of cap space and no one to replace him? That is freaking stupid and I don't care what the homers say. You could have kept him and cut him later if he didn't pan out.

And then I watch Gabriel and Benji catch TD passes w/in a couple of minutes of each other. But, they are not good enough for us.

This team blows!

It does, but the coaching isn't far behind.

Hue needs a O coordinator. If he wants to remain as one, he needs to step down and take that job elsewhere. Week after week he talks about running the ball, and week after week we don't.

Crow got a whopping 8 carries today. Johnson got maybe 5 carries. Running the ball shortens the game and keeps it close. Crow hasn't had one game this season with 20 carries. That's a load of crap IMO.

I don't want to hear about not being able to run because we are behind. Shorten the game, run the friggen ball, and maybe give up a bit in the 4th qtr. if necessary. Crow should have 8 carries by the early/mid 2nd qtr.


I remember in pre-season Hue talking about other teams will need to defend every blade of grass on the field. That's pretty funny stuff. If you aren't going to invest in running the ball, your QBs are going to get killed....and guess what? They have.

Hue needs to understand what his job is and not try to do a coordinators job.

Hue already has an offensive coordinator. His name is Pep Hamilton. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pep_Hamilton

You might not want to hear what I have to say, but I surely don't want to hear you guys keep blaming the coaching staff and defending the owner and the FO, because I KNOW who is really to blame for this miserable season!

I am not defending the owner or anyone else.


Maybe they are the ones calling the plays. My bad, maybe we need to get Pep and or the FO up to speed on running the ball more.

I don't think that there is one person in this forum that is a fan of the owner.

Look peen..............it's NOT the play calling...........it's the lack of talent!!!!

That's because you don't "think."

And you are a track coach with a heavy agenda to control the forum.

Go peddle your BS somewhere else.

I didn't address you until you addressed me. Stay away from me and all will be good. You sicken me w/your BS agenda.

This isn't about the wins and losses. It's about the strategy being used.


I just think we would be far better suited to running the ball, and we don't.

Are you arguing that any coach would be good with talent?

It doesn't work like that and you scare about as much as a Charlie Brown Christmas special so go ahead and bait me all you want. Just be prepared for the back end of that deal.

No, but how did Hue go from a well-respected coach to a bum?

OK....both of you knock it off. Vers and I are friends and are having a conversation.

Not trying to scare you. I just think you are a terrible poster and run your mouth too much. I just need to ignore the likes of you.

Now wait, I never said he was a bum. I simply questioned his strategy and asked if maybe he was in over his head. I know he is a quality coach. He has done good things as a coordinator.

It's what guys like him do. They don't have an argument, so they make it personal.

It's a good thing that nobody really cares much about what you think then.

Other than you.

You think you are a genius and tell us all as much every day.

We could be witnessing the Peter Principle here.

Maybe not as well. He did go 8-8 with Oakland under some pretty bad circumstances.

It's a small sample size though.

I'm just saying it's a possibility that Hue isn't any good. Even with more talent. I can't point to one single "coaching" thing that has occurred this year that makes me say he's the guy. I'm disappointed in that. Very.

peen, we don't have to agree. I respect you and am not fighting w/you. I am just saying that no coach can win w/this type of talent.

That's one of the biggest problems w/this "plan." All this losing leads to unfair evaluations. You think it's bad this year? Wait until next year when this team loses almost all of it's games again.

And when we fire Hue and other coaches.........we'll be starting over yet again. It's an endless cycle.

The problem exists w/ownership and the FO. This plan needs to be revised or it is doomed to fail. You simply cannot w/stand losing this many games for two to three years in a row w/out making changes to the coaching staff. And then, you are back to square one.