DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Terrelle Pryor's extension unlikely to come by season's end, Isaiah Crowell still aiming for 1,000 and more

Oh, I bet more people respect my opinion more than yours. But, that isn't what I'm talking about. I just need to take Diam's advice and avoid the likes of you.

There are some things that have me scratching my head with Hue but overall I like him as a coach and nobody was expecting much from this team this year.

Changing the head coach right now makes about as much sense as changing the FO right now. Neither would be a great idea in my opinion.

Do you remember BEFORE the season when posters ridiculed me because I questioned how much of a difference Hue was going to make?

It wasn't because I thought Hue sucked. It was because I knew this roster sucked.

I read posts that say he is "trying to get to cute." LOL.......that is what you say if the talent cannot execute the play. If the talent can execute the play, they call they say, "what a creative play caller."

What you need to avoid is all the BS that you spew and you probably wouldn't hear a peep from me.

You'd probably avoid a lot of peeps from others as well.

You and Joe Banner are like Skip Bayless and Tony Romo.

At times I think you're Mike Lombardi incognito.

That is one of the things I like about Hue is the fact that he is willing to call the trick plays that he does. Even when they don't work they keep defenses on their heels and force extra preparation for the other team.

What makes you think I care what you--and the others you speak of---think?

LOL man! Seriously! You just an internet bully who gangs up w/others to get on people who don't see it your way. We are 0 and 14 and you wanna get on me for BS because I question the direction of the team.

I mean..........you can't make this crap up!!!

So is there anything visible we should be able to see on game day that tells us Hue would be a good coach with better talent? I'm looking for something that I'm not seeing. It could be there and I just don't know what I'm looking for.

There are a few things to look for in my opinion:

--Has the team quit on him?

--Are there a ton of unforced mistakes, such as illegal procedures, false starts, illegal motion, lining up in the neutral zone, off side, etc? Please consider the experience of the players when making this evaluation.

--Is he getting praised by opponents before the game due to his creativity?

--Is he being creative?

--Is he masking the weaknesses of some of his players?

--How is his clock management?

Look Rish, I don't think the guy has been perfect, but no coach is perfect. How do you explain how guys like Belichick could only win 5 games w/a Cleveland team and then win multiple championships? How has Del Rio gotten so much better than he was before? Pete Carrol? How did Rivera win 17 games last year [including two playoff games] and then be 5 and 8 this year?

I just think that the focus needs to be on ownership and the FO and NOT on the coaches. Get the coaches some talent and THEN evaluate them.

I know you are not fighting with me. We have a mutual respect my man. We are just sitting around the cyber bar, chewing the fat. Is the next round on me, or is it your turn??


I don't know that I agree that the plan can't work. I read a pretty good article on this board today about good moves the FO has made to bolster the roster.

I do agree we can't simply bolster the bottom of the roster, something I have talked about as being important for years now. We have to make the top picks count.


Right now we have one sample size and it is way too soon to draw conclusions on that, be it that none are looking great at this point. Ogbagh is looking comfortable now that we have settled on him as a hand in the dirt player. Coleman has flashed, but between injury and unsettled QB play, it remains to be seen if he emerges as a top receiver.

We'll know more on this last draft class next year. I will admit that as of now we probably don't have any HOF's or even multiple pro bowlers in this last haul. But we might have 2-3 pretty good players. By that I mean solid NFL players. Here in Cleveland it seems the fans are looking for star type players. I want those as well, but there is nothing wrong with good players.


Gerard Warren is a good example. Maybe he was drafted early. That wasn't his fault. The guy started for every team where he played, went to a pro-bowl or two, and was a solid player, but here, since he never measured up to expectations, he was a bust.

The guy played maybe 12 seasons as a starter, on some pretty good teams to boot. That is far from a bust IMO, but we expected the next Warren Sapp and 15 sacks a season, and anything less is a bust.


I know you agree that good players is what we want and need, and I agree with you on some of the guys we let go. I liked Gabriel. Benji not as much, but with a FO and coaching change, players are going to change.


It is what it is.

peen..........I am not guaranteeing it won't work. It's just an opinion. But, that opinion is that losing a huge amount of games for two to three straight years and not fire the coaches, especially given Haslam's track record.

And what happens when we fire the coaches, peen? We get the same people who defend this regime saying we gotta give the new guys time until they too lose a bunch of games.

It never ends.

Says the guy giving out nicknames to people with a different opinion.

'Browns' Terrelle Pryor has a torn ligament in his finger, might need surgery'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...ncart_big-photo

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com on December 19, 2016 at 11:18 AM, updated December 19, 2016 at 2:39 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Terrelle Pryor suffered a torn ligament in his finger during Sunday's 33-13 loss to Buffalo and might need surgery to repair it, a source told cleveland.com.

He will undergo an MRI and is getting a second opinion on the finger.

His status for the final two games of the season, Saturday against San Diego and Jan. 1 at Pittsburgh, is uncertain.

Pryor wants to play, a source said, but the torn ligament might prevent him from doing so. The injury, in a knuckle, affected him in the second half of the game.

Pryor caught only four of his eight targets for 19 yards, and dropped one at the Bills' 5. That followed on the heels of one catch for 3 yards against the Bengals the week before.

Pryor leads the Browns with 67 catches for 877 yards and four TDs.

He has two more chances to try to reach the 1,000-yard milestone.

NFL Network first reported that he sprained his finger and needed an MRI.

Browns coach Hue Jackson said he regretted not being able to get the ball more to Pryor in Buffalo.

"Terrelle has a reputation now,'' he said. "People know who you are and are trying to take you out of the game, and we're trying to get it to him. Sometimes the ball doesn't go where it should or protection doesn't hold up. It's a variety of different things. It's not that we're not trying to get him the ball. We're trying to. We did some things different in the second half, but then like you said, that dries up too.

"Teams start figuring that out. So, we have to play better. It's just that simple. Offensive football is about a team. It's about a unit playing well. The quarterback has to lead that and everybody has to be in sync. We have a rhythm and then there's no rhythm, and then it disappears and sometimes we don't get it back. I haven't seen this in a long time in my career in football. But I know what it is, so we'll just continue to get better at it. ''

Hue regretted not getting Pryor the ball more? Rg3 threw the ball to him 8 times! and he dropped too many to my liking.

next man up

It's easy to say that, but we still need to run the ball my friend. Running the ball is a investment. You can't just scrap it because your D sucks and you are down by 10-14 in the 2nd qtr.


To me, that early in the game, the goal is to sustain a drive, chew some clock, and rest the D a bit. The D always has to exert a bit more energy because they have to react to what is happening. Offensive players on the off side of the field can take a play off here and there with no real negative impact on the play. Defenders can't really do that. They have to be ready on every snap. Offensive players know going in if they can lolly a bit.


Hue talks about running the ball, but gives it up very early on. Had Joe Gibbs given up on the run the way Hue does, Riggins would have never gained his 2nd half yards, which is where he gained the most.

our o-line can't run block worth a darn since joel went down. we just get a lucky run in here and there. if all we did was run it would be a lot of 3 and outs.

I don't know that I agree. We gain yards. I don't think we have run enough to know if we can or can't. I do know our QB's have issues and also get sacked 10% of the time, so I do know our pass blocking or the QB can't get the ball out quick enough for whatever reason. Maybe the receivers don't get open????

Play action only works if teams think you very well might run.

we don't run the ball enough to know if we're effective enough. we are always so far behind in points so early in the game lately.

Terrelle Pryor knows it could be his last game with Browns: 'It's got to make sense for both sides'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...art_river_index

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com on December 29, 2016 at 3:43 PM, updated December 29, 2016 at 4:26 PM

BEREA, Ohio -- Terrelle Pryor has contemplated the notion that Sunday's season finale in Pittsburgh might be his last in a Browns uniform.

He'll be an unrestricted free agent March 9, and if the Browns don't extend him by then, they risk losing him on the open market.

As it is, his agents Drew and Jason Rosenhaus, have shelved extension talks until after the season -- and likely want him to test the market, where players often hit the jackpot.

"I just know they told me they were waiting, so that's all I had to hear,'' said Pryor. "It's my first time, I've been cut so many times. I wasn't good enough. Now it's my agents' turn to do their jobs and put me in the best position for myself. I believe in them and trust them.''

A fourth-year pro, Pryor knows as well as anyone it's a business, and that anything can happen.

"Like I said before, I have the utmost respect for Hue (Jackson), but at the end of the day, it's got to make sense for both sides,'' he said. "That's the only thing I know about contracts, it's got to make sense. I love to play for Hue and I played my hardest and I'm getting more experience as I go and there's things I could do better obviously and we all can. But that's just the thing were striving for, as LeBron, his mantra is: strive for greatness.

"I love to play for him and I enjoy playing for him this year and I'd love to play for him longer. But at the end of the day, it's got to come down to what my agents think is right for me.''

Pryor admitted that he's thought about this being it for him in Cleveland, despite the fact the Browns started talking to his agents months ago about a new deal, including talks that took place in Cleveland.

"Yeah, you always gotta think about that, especially in my situation being a free agent this coming up after this game,'' said Pryor, who's playing with a torn ligament in his right middle finger that will require surgery a day after the season. "Obviously it's something that you think about.

"I was talking to somebody and I said, 'man it would be great to see what our fans would be like for 7-2, 8-1, 9 and whatever,' because I thought that place was electric. Even when we were 0-14 coming into the game, we still had a lot of fans there and after the game it felt like it was 60,000-70,000 there cheering loud.

"You can see how bad they want us to win, so it's something you've got to think about and something I think about. But I can't control that and it's not my call. It's the guys upstairs, but I'm definitely grateful for the opportunity they gave me and I'm grateful to be on this team no matter what the record is.''

Pryor is 87 yards shy of his goal of 1,000 yards in his first season as a receiver. He was well on his way to the coveted milestone until Robert Griffin III returned to the lineup the past three games and struggled with the passing game. In those three outings, Pryor has caught only eight passes for 58 yards. If Cody Kessler or Josh McCown had been starting, he'd undoubtedly have his 1,000 by now -- a remarkable accomplishment for the converted quarterback.

"Anytime you set goals, everybody has goals coming into the season and stuff like that but at the end of the day I think a victory overrules it and like I said, I know I could get 1,000 yards,'' he said. "I believe I'm the type of player and I know that, but this is really about the team. It could happen. It's not far away at all. It's easy, so it's just taking it one play at a time and just go making plays, try to be there for Rob or Cody, whoever's starting.''

After Griffin's first game back, Pryor tumbled from 11th in receiving yards to 22nd. Now, he's 28th with 913. He's also 29th with 70 receptions and has four TDs. He'd undoubtedly have more TDs if he was used more in the red zone.

"We've had about six quarterbacks or so this year but I believe in whoever's back there, because coach Hue's putting them back there,'' Pryor said of RG3 getting the nod in Pittsburgh. "I've got to handle my job and get open and if it comes my way, make a play.''

If the Browns can't reach a deal with Pryor before March 9th, they can always franchise him for about $16 million in 2017. But they're also trying to keep linebacker Jamie Collins, who's set to hit the market in March, and can only franchise one of them.

The Rosenhaus' will likely sell teams on the fact that Pryor had four different starting quarterbacks this season, including a rookie in Kessler and a veteran in RG3 who was benched all of last season and hurt for most of this year.

If Pryor had played with an established QB, he very well could've made the Pro Bowl in his first year at the position. He's still learning the nuances of beating top-notch cornerbacks, but some teams will view him as a No. 1 receiver and be willing to pay him like one.

Even former Browns receiver Travis Benjamin received $6 million a year from the Chargers in free agency last offseason. In Cleveland, 2016 No. 15 overall pick Corey Coleman is the No. 1 wideout, and the Browns will probably be reluctant at least at the outset to give Pryor No. 1 money, which is in the $9 million to $14 million a year range.

"I just love competing against the best,'' Pryor said. "I get the best corner every week and I love competing against the guys. These past three games for me haven't been well, there's multiple reasons for that. I just really want to go out and play the best that I can and really enjoy victories.''

And if they win this week, his second Browns victory could also be his last.

Huh ... who would have figured TP would be out for himself here ... some may have said that when they found out who he picked for his agent ...

I know i for am shocked by this change in stance by TP ..

SHOCKED I TELL YA ...

*LOL* ... saw this one coming from day 1 ...

Who's he supposed to be out for, it's just business and he needs to win for him. Seems fairly normal to me.

He deserves to earn his money the same as anyone else. I hope we make him a good offer and get him locked in place for the next 5 years because I think he will only get better.

Honestly, if we can get a third round comp for him, let him walk.

Yeah, the Browns don't need talented players.

I hear ya, Vers. I don't wanna break the bank for him but it aint my money. He's got some talent so let's keep him, I'm tired of draftniks who love hoarding picks.

Just make the man a good offer.. if he hits the Schwartz on us.. Deuces!

Not if they're worth less than what we pay them!

The NFL's Smartest Teams Hoard Draft Picks, And The Patriots And Seahawks Are 2 Prime Examples


Grantland's Bill Barnwell has a good article about the ways in which Bill Belichick's strategy of trading down in the NFL Draft has helped the Patriots over the years.

According to Barnwell's numbers, Belichick has made 48 trades that involved only draft picks over the last 15 years, which works out to about 3.2 trades per draft. The value that he created by those trades is equivalent to getting a No.1-overall pick, No. 2-overall pick, and No.-19 overall pick for nothing.

The takeaway here: Since teams overvalue high picks and the draft is completely driven by chance anyway, the league's smartest teams hoard their own picks and trade down to get extra picks whenever possible.

The Seahawks and the Patriots are two good examples.

Despite giving up draft picks in the disastrous Percy Harvin trade, Seattle has had 48 draft picks in the last five years, the most in the NFL. The Patriots have made 44 draft picks in the last five years, which ranks eighth in the NFL.

Research suggests that the NFL Draft is "95-100%" driven by chance. No NFL team is better or worse than any other NFL team at drafting players.

But where teams can differentiate themselves is in the number of picks they make. If the draft is completely driven by chance, the only way to get an edge is by making more picks than everyone else, thus giving yourself more opportunities to find players that pan out.

Since 2010 the average NFL team has made 39.75 draft picks. There are 10 NFL teams that have made at least 44 draft picks:

Seattle — 48
San Francisco — 48
Philadelphia — 48
Minnesota — 47
St. Louis — 47
Cincinnati — 45
Green Bay — 45
New England — 44
Pittsburgh — 44
Houston — 44

Those teams won an average of 9.7 games in 2014. The 17 teams that made fewer than 40 picks since 2010 won an average of 7.6 games in 2014.

The team with the fewest draft picks over the last five years, New Orleans, only made 28 draft picks — 20 fewer than Seattle.

The Patriots and Seahawks simply don't give away their draft picks.

http://www.businessinsider.com/seahawks-patriots-nfl-draft-strategy-2015-1

Yeah, good point considering we are in cap hell.

Lol

His agent is doing his job. I have no problem with that. Now it's time to see what kind of man TP really is. Is he a greedy bastid, or a team player and Cleveland fan. Make your choice TP and be prepared to live the last 50 years of your life with the co·in·ci·dence

Nothing wrong with him getting some, but I hope he doesn't forget the team that gave him a chance. That should mean something.

As much as I like that line of thinking, the Browns would cut ties with him in a millisecond if it served them better. TP needs to look out for himself, end of story. As much as I want him to stay and hope we make him a good offer if he bolts for more money I have no problem with that. An NFL career can end at any time, the players need to look out for themselves first.

Agreed.

He doesn't owe the Browns anything. They would cut him if he was stinking the joint out.

The real question is whether or not the FO will be able to "keep their own?"

why not slap transition tag on him and let someone else set his value

Because they may think the value of a tag is better suited for Jamie Collins. That's where I'd lean anyways. Now, if they sign Collins before the tag deadline, that could be an option.

Side note- All this talk about the Browns having cap money and should spend just because of that fact really has a rather wreckless point of view. The Browns still need to be wise with their money. Collins and Pryor aren't the only ones worth a contract extension. In my opinion, Collins, Bitonio, and Kirksey are all worth more than Pryor. Pryor (or by proxy, his agent) is looking for #1 WR I'm guessing. What warrants that amount of money based on his performance this year? I don't blame the guy for wanting to get paid, and for his sake, get what you can while you're in the league, but I don't want the Browns to fork over #1 WR dollars if that is what he is looking for. He hasn't earned that type of money and just because we have money, doesn't mean we should simply hand it over. That's dumb.

yeah i forgot you can't use transition if you use franchise...i agree, while Pryor shows promise, he's not really anything special. He's shown he's mistake prone and has iffy hands..but he has the two things you can't teach size and speed. But imo, collins would be much more important to lockup to a long term deal to anchor the defense.