DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Front Office...continued

...on the field football?

Mac thank you for the reply and post. It was very informative.

Merry Christmas, Dawg. Hope all is well with you and the family.

I got the best Christmas present in the world yesterday with a Browns win, so all I will add to the discussion today is Merry Christmas to everyone at Dawgtalkers.

That article says "return to competition less than 15 months after injury and with no statistically significant decrease in performance....." I would think that means game shape. That's promising news.

Lol. On Christmas no less.

This article touches on the same subject, emphasizing the challenges facing the front office...

Browns set sack records, turn to offseason for O-line aid


Posted Dec 26, 2016 at 6:40 PM
By Steve Doerschuk 
Repository sports writer
link


The Browns are thrilled to finally win a game, but now they have to find a way to keep their quarterbacks out of the hospital. Finding O-line help becomes a big priority as they set sacks records.

BEREA While the Browns won on Christmas Eve and remembered how to smile, 2016 will have been their most painful season.

There's just a song before it's gone, Sunday's game pitting the team and its 1-14 record against the 10-5 AFC North champion Pittsburgh Steelers.

Beating the Chargers on Christmas Eve inspired some hope for 2017. Yet, as head coach Hue Jackson said Monday, "We are nowhere close to where we want to be."

The two biggest challenges after the Browns put this season to bed will be, one, identifying the right quarterback, and, two, keeping him out of the hospital.

With nine more sacks allowed Saturday, the team has given up a franchise-record 62 for the season, topping the 60 allowed in 1999, which included 56 suffered by rookie Tim Couch.

Likewise, this year's Browns have lost 403 yards to sacks, another franchise record.

Don't blame Joe Thomas. He has been elected to his 10th straight Pro Bowl and remains a left tackle praised by everyone the Browns face. Yet, the offensive line will need attention. Thomas, 32, is signed for two more years.

"One message that came up in our captains' meeting," Thomas said, "was what we are doing to set ourselves up for the offseason and next year.

"A lot of these faces are going to be the same next year."

Many figure to be different.

Thomas will return at left tackle. Every other line position is iffy.

Joel Bitonio, a second-round pick in 2014, was off to a good start at left guard, but he suffered a foot injury in the fifth game. He will have lost 16 games to injuries across the last two seasons. Fifth-round pick Spencer Drango has replaced him, with mixed results.

Center Cameron Erving, a first-round pick in 2015, has struggled. The Browns were in control of the San Diego game and opened the second half with four straight plays netting 10 yards or more. Then, on first down from the 8, Erving false started. A big momentum change can be traced to that penalty.

Right guard John Greco, who will be 32 soon, has lost time to injuries in each of the last four seasons, including the final four games this year with a serious foot injury. The good news: Replacement Jonathan Cooper was a No. 7 overall draft pick in 2013. The bad news: The Patriots cut him in October.

With 15 starts, right tackle Austin Pasztor has been a 2016 iron man, but he is a borderline starter who came out of Virginia undrafted in 2012. He can be an unrestricted free agent.

A strong case can be made that one or perhaps two of the Browns' picks in the first two rounds (they have four) will be an offensive lineman.

There is the question of how much better the line might look behind a good quarterback.

Six different QBs have taken sacks this year, including Cody Kessler with 21, Josh McCown with 18, Griffin with 18, Kevin Hogan with two, Charlie Whitehurst with two and Terrelle Pryor with one.

The team has had trouble keeping QBs upright through the expansion era.

Charlie Frye got sacked 44 times in 2006, when the team gave up 54 sacks. McCown, Johnny Manziel and Austin Davis hit the deck a combined 53 times in 2015. Couch was taken down 51 times in 2001, which helps explain why the No. 1 overall draft pick lasted only five NFL seasons.

It's debatable how much Griffin did to help his chances of staying with the Browns by helping them beat San Diego. Despite leaving the game with a concussion, though, Griffin might have helped his own peace of mind.

"He was being criticized for the way he had played," veteran wideout Andrew Hawkins said. "He tried different things. Against San Diego, he was just himself. I think that is the best version of him, when he goes out and just plays like he wants to play and not like somebody else."

The way Griffin wants to play might become the reason he can't play in the NFL as a starter.

He went down for his seventh sack with 11 minutes left when he was smacked by 300-pound defense end Darius Philon. Griffin also put himself in harm's way at certain moments during his six runs, which netted 42 yards.

"RG3 did have a couple scrambles that put them in good field position," said Chargers cornerback Trevor Williams. "I hope he protects himself a little better."

The entire protection issue is tied closely to whether the 2017 Browns can be better.

Reach Steve at 330-580-8347 or steve.doerschuk@cantonrep.com

On Twitter: @sdoerschukREP

IMO every facet of a football team is important but none more important than a good O-line. It determines how well you can move the ball. protect your QB and helps the D stay off the field. I hope our FO finally realizes this.

Qb protection is more complicated than just how talented the oline is. Yes, that is a major component but there are other considerations. And when talking line talent, we should break it down into physical ability, mental understanding and technique. Some of these are easier to address and correct than others.

Appropriate line calls
Appropriate blocking schemes
Pass patterns for the wr
How the wr are getting open
How long the qb holds the ball

Brady and manning often play/played with poor line talent but they make sure the protection packages are right and they get the ball out quickly.

All of our qbs have a tendency to hold the ball too long.
How much would a qb who gets the ball out on time help the line?
Perfect example was wit frye and anderson

I am not knowledgeable enough to comment on blocking schemes.

It's funny how they talk about Charlie Frye, but never mention how he was abused by the Steelers in the opening stanza of the 20-07 season, and the DA came in, and the OL "sudden;y" became the best in the NFL.

Frye ran himself into more sacks than the OL allowed.

Fast forward to this year. RG3 was sacked a number of times, but, and I say this as someone who really wanted to draft RG3, he ran himself into at least 2 or 3 of those sacks. There was one where he had a perfect pocket, yet broke the pocket, running to the right, only to be sacked by a guy who was otherwise properly blocked.

I am not saying that all of the sacks were on RG#, because clearly they were not, but in watching the game, it's apparent that he runs himself into trouble far too often.

The only thing I care about, at this point anyway, is , well 1-14 headed into Pittsburgh.

I was going to preface every thought for a year with " does this help you beat Pittsburgh?" for any decsision the team makes any time.

But the only thing I care about is Has Jimmy Haslem learned anything, ( I mean, about putting it all together, keeping the team together, getting on the right track, starting to win, make the playoffs, etc. )

So. Has Jimmy Haslem learned anything? and what's the proof?


I'm tired of waiting, we're all tired of waiting, I've been waiting 25 years, they've only made the playoffs twice since 89, some folks have waited longer than that!

25 YEARS

And I think we will.

Even though I don't like some of what Hue does, I think he is a good coach who can coach a winning team.


I think the team has a FO who can set a positive direction and select good players.


I think we have a owner who has a desire to win.



It wasn't many months ago that Haslam told us this was not going to be a overnight process.


Nobody likes to take steps back, but sometimes that is what you need to do to get back on the right path.


It's like driving a car. Once you realize you are on the wrong road, you have to go back. Nobody like that, but you have to do it if you want to get to your destination.

People get on mac for saying they aren't good, but what evidence suggests that this FO can select good players?

I am not saying they can't, but they sure as hell haven't proven squat yet.

The early returns on Coleman, Ogbah, Nassib and Drango have looked extremely promising. Much more than what we've had in years.

I disagree. In fact, considering where we were slotted, I would say that the early returns are disappointing.

And before the police jump in and say that it takes 3 years to properly evaluate a player/draft............yeah, I get that and that is why I said "early returns."

Good thing the Browns FO passed on Wentz early returns he's really disappointing.

I guess where I am comming from is, how long does it take to prove something in the football world.? I have read it take 3-4 years to grade a draft. If it take that long......ok, we'll slpit the difference.....say 2-3 years.

Is on draft class the guage you want to hold?

I don't really get on Mac. , but I will say he has been on the "Harvard Boys" even before the draft. He was on them once he found out they went to Harvard.

I don't think you answered my question. What has the FO done that gives you confidence that they are good at selecting players?

Maybe the FO should say they went to a university in Boston instead.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/10/fas...e.html?referer=

Bottom line, fellas: we need a good QB

Browns to keep training camp in Berea for immediate future

he Browns on Wednesday announced they’ll maintain their training camp in Berea for the immediate future.

The team recently explored an opportunity in Columbus but opted to continue its preseason training at the site of its team facility, which has served as the home of training camp since 1992.

Throughout the multi-year process, the Browns evaluated many options and ultimately determined Berea provided a great environment for the team to to prepare. The team is fully committed to improving the training camp experience for players, coaches and fans, including those who travel many hours to interact with the team.

“After evaluating all aspects and conversations about potential training camp sites, we have decided to keep training camp in Berea for the immediate future,” Browns VP of Communication Peter John-Baptiste said in a statement. “While we greatly appreciate the efforts of and our discussions with representatives from the City of Columbus, Franklin County and Ohio State University, we believe it is best for our football team, our organizational goals and our fans to continue to host training camp in Northeast Ohio.”

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...2f-98e958300417

Christian Kirksey, ‘forced to grow up fast,’ emerging as Browns leader

The 2nd-year LB was named the team’s Good Guy Award winner

Christian Kirksey’s maturation on the field has been, perhaps, only matched by how he’s grown off it.

The third-year Browns linebacker, who was voted the team’s “Good Guy Award” winner Wednesday morning, leads Cleveland in tackles and has emerged as a leader in his first season as a full-time starter.

“Kirko is a rising football player on our football team and within pro football itself,” coach Hue Jackson said. “He’s had a hell of a year and he needs to keep growing, but I think he gets it. It’s about team for him. It has never just been about him, and I appreciate it.”

Indeed, Kirksey (nicknamed “Kirko” by his teammates and coaches) has played an important role in helping keep the Browns together through a trying season. And when it was clear he’d be something of a veteran on a team full of rookies and other first-year players, Kirksey didn’t flinch at the challenge of assuming a new role.

“It’s just like a play when you’re in the game. When your play is called, you have to go make the play,” he said. “Just seeing a lot of guys leave here last year — a lot of older guys, a lot of veteran players — when you look around the room we are a young team so somebody had to step up.”

“I’m just growing up fast, forced to grow up fast, forced to be on the field and forced to really mature,” he continued, “so that’s kind of where I am in my career right now.”

The Good Guy Award is given annually to a player for his cooperation with the media and for the way the player carries himself in the community and with his teammates.

“I look at it as it is just your job. Being a professional athlete, you can’t run when things go wrong,” Kirksey said. “You just have to face it – that is like, you make a bad play, you can’t say ‘Oh man, I am tapping out for the game.’ You just have to [move on to the] next play, just be a professional in everything you do.”

Jackson on Wednesday spoke of the Browns hoping to “finish strong” against the Steelers in their season finale, referencing momentum heading into the offseason following their first win of the season.

“Our guys needed that win to validate a lot the things we have done, but at the same time, we all recognize and understand that it was one victory,” Jackson said.

“Hopefully, it leads to bigger and better things for our football team. We all understand here is the next opportunity and can we go do this. That’s my charge to them – Can we do it again and walk out of here the right way and have the right feeling walking into the offseason?”

In the process, Kirksey said he’s trying to follow in the footsteps of veterans such as Joe Thomas and Joe Haden.

“I’m still a young player,” he said, “but I have to develop fast.”​

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-5/Christian-Kirksey-%E2%80%98forced-to-grow-up-fast%E2%80%99-emerging-as-Browns-leader/0b33c48c-2bd8-4f6f-b1a4-f2d09f103616

This is his 3rd year.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/roster/Christian-Kirksey/7a3b1af8-72cf-4924-9058-eaf80460bd09

I noticed that but I didn't change what the author wrote.

The 2nd-year LB was named the team’s Good Guy Award winner

The third-year Browns linebacker, who was voted the team’s “Good Guy Award” winner Wednesday

Kind of the point I've been making...


Browns coaches to push owner Jimmy Haslam for front office changes

Hue Jackson isn't expected to call for the dismissal of top executives, but the flow chart could change
by Jason La Canfora
@JasonLaCanfora
2h ago
link

While much-maligned Browns owner Jimmy Haslam has been preaching continuity during another lost season, after years of making constant changes in the coaching and front office ranks, a management shake-up is hardly out of the question. The Browns' coaches have deep concerns with the direction of the personnel department, according to numerous team and league sources, and will discuss the matter with Haslam soon.

While coach Hue Jackson is not planning to request the removal of top football man Sashi Brown, or the influential analytics department he has built, the sources said there will be a strong push to ownership to reconsider the flow chart. The coaches would like a proven, old-school talent evaluator involved in player selection to provide checks and balances with the current setup.

Frankly, the issue should be no surprise after a one-win season when their bevy of draft picks have provided little production. Plus, several former players who were cut or not re-signed are thriving on more successful clubs. There are deep concerns, with the team still lacking a quarterback and this 2017 draft pivotal for the future, that merely letting the same process unfold this spring could bring dire consequences. Hiring a former general manager to oversee player evaluation is seen as imperative.

It remains to be seen how Haslam or the football operations department receives this. Coaches are aware of Haslam's sensitivity to change given his almost yearly reboots. They will encourage any addition to be someone who can coexist with those in place -- however naïve that may prove. Ironically, the organization had at least three former high-ranking officials from other NFL franchises on staff prior to last year's draft, when they were part of the latest Browns purge.

As reported months ago, the front office also has some concerns with Jackson's staff -- defensive coordinator Ray Horton in particular -- and there could be a movement to urge the coach to alter his staff.

Cleveland won its first game last week over San Diego and has won only four games since Thanksgiving of 2014.

If you would state your opinion as is in that article, no one would try to discourage your opinion. Do you think you are the only Browns fan who believes we could benefit from a strong talent evaluator/ football guy?

Don't waste your time on Willie. He ain't worth it.

C'mon mac. That is NOT why people get on you. No one wants to 'rubber stamp' every move the FO makes. Some moves are good...some terrible...some need more time to be evaluated.

You appear to tie everything that has gone less-than-well to some sinister FO that purposely wants the Browns to stink. I don't think many people disagree with the basis of your mistrust in the FO...it's when you tie them to crazy reaches that people get nuts with you. Then certain people start assigning blame to the FO for things that haven't even happened yet.

Trust me...anyone who reads what you post knows where you are coming from.

j/c



I'd like to apologize to all eight grade cheerleaders.

Browns' Jimmy Haslam: 'We have the right people in place'

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
Follow on Twitter
on January 01, 2017 at 6:36 PM, updated January 01, 2017 at 8:03 PM
link

PITTSBURGH, Pa. -- Browns owner Jimmy Haslam really won't be blowing anything up this year.

Despite the 1-15 season, he's keeping his analytics-based personnel department intact and said he is overjoyed with Hue Jackson.

"I think we have the right people in place,'' Haslam said in an interview after Sunday's 27-24 overtime loss to the Steelers. "I could not be more pleased with the job that Hue and his staff are doing. You wouldn't think this was a team that was 1-14 that was out there battling. What did we play today? 70-plus minutes of football? So really pleased with Hue and really pleased with our personnel group.''

What makes him so sure he's got the right folks in place?

"It's intuitive,'' he said. "I'll just say I feel very strongly we've got the right group together and I think they're working exceptionally well together.''

Does he plan to add to a more traditional football talent evaluator to the staff, as several national reports have said he'll do? The current triumvirate consists of Executive Vice President of Football Operations Sashi Brown, Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta and Vice President of Player Personnel Andrew Berry. They have the No. 1 overall pick in April's draft and likely the No. 12 overall from the Eagles, and boatloads of cap space.

"We do not (plan to add anyone),'' he said. "If we do, it will be Sashi and Paul and AB's call, but we feel good about the people we've got in place."

As for a report by CBS Sports' Jason LaCanfora that Jackson will push for an experienced football guy in the front office, Haslam said, "I don't comment on reports from that reporter.''

Jackson, in the wake of reports that he's not happy with Brown, dispelled that notion.

"Let me say this and I don't want to answer any more questions about it: Me and Sashi are in lockstep trying to get this football team to be the best it is,'' he said. "We're going to get there. That's all I can tell you. We're together. We know what we're doing. We have work to do. We have to get better at what we're doing and we all understand that. This is hurtful for the whole organization, not just me.

"Sashi and Jimmy Haslam and Dee Haslam and Paul DePodesta and Andrew Berry too, we're all in this together. There's no divide here. We just need to get better. We'll do that.''

He added, "obviously I'm going to speak to Mr. Haslam just because that's what I do. We just need to continue to get better and stick to our plan of working through it and get to where we need to be.''

Haslam, who's had a quick hook since he took over in 2012, believes the innovative approach will pay dividends soon.

"It took us a while to get there and I'll take all the responsibility there as I've said in the past,'' he said. "I think this time last year we said this was going to be multiyear rebuilding. It is. Has this year been harder than we thought it would be?

"Yes, but I promise you this, we will work hard, I think we've got the right people in place and there's really three keys going forward. It's not that complicated. We've got to execute and the three things we have to execute are this: No. 1 we've got re-sign our key players; No. 2 we've got to be appropriately aggressive in free agency; and No. 3 we've got to have a great draft."

Haslam was quick to blame himself for the team's woes. Since assuming ownership in October of 2012, the Browns are 19-54. Since he installed his first leadership group of CEO Joe Banner and coach Rob Chudzinski in 2013, the Browns are 15-49. They've won four games the past two seasons.

"Clearly not an acceptable year,'' he said. "Since we bought the team, just totally unacceptable performance, which as ownership we'll take the entire blame for. Very disappointing all around. This year's been disappointing, but so are the other years.''

He acknowledged it's "premature'' to grade the new front office on the 2016 draft, which included trading down from No. 2 overall and picking up an extra first-rounder from Philadelphia this year and a second-rounder next year. If the Browns draft well, they can transform the team this offseason, and Haslam's betting on his crew.

"We deferred a lot of that to this year and next year with the picks we have,'' he said. "We have five of the top 65, and people forget Jamar Taylor. What did we trade, a seventh-round pick for him in the draft last year for him? So I think it's too early to judge these classes. This team that we played today has a guy, No. 84 (Antonio Brown), that I don't think many people remember him as a rookie, so I think all of us tend to judge people real quickly off their first year and it's a huge jump from college to the NFL.''

He noted that the 2016 and 2017 drafts are designed to provide the foundation for sustained success, and that the Browns weren't expected to make a big jump this year.

"Our entire organization will be judged in how well we do going forward, by how well our decisions - it's not all draft - which players do you keep, [do we] go out and be active in free agency or not?'' he said. "There are multiple people decisions that we'll need to make and you need to get right.''

He admitted, "our record as owners is terrible, but we're not giving up. Has it been fun? No. Is it discouraging at times? Yes. But are we gonna give up? No. We're more than ever determined to get this right. We haven't made good decisions along the way so we'll accept the blame.''

Despite the record, which is worse than anyone in the organization imagined, he sees light the at the end of the tunnel.

"There's no question,'' he said. "The effort, you could argue that effort-wise, our effort's been tremendous all year in particular here in the last two games. We're playing a lot of young guys and I think they got better. Shon Coleman came in today and played - I haven't looked at the tape - but played a very respectable second half so yeah, I think there are bright spots, but let's be realistic we're 1-15. We've got a lot of - I don't want to sugarcoat things - we've got a ways to go."

Haslam pointed out that "the group is together less than a year. I feel very good about how well they're working together in terms of both personnel and coaches.''

As for whether or not the Browns have their QB of the future on the roster, he said, "That's a question for Sashi and a question for Hue.''

Despite the record not validating his approach, he's standing his ground.

"We've learned from our previous mistakes and it's important to have continuity but until you get the right people in place, you've got to keep making moves,'' he said. "I'm excited about working with that group going forward and (even) more determined to turn this around."

Haslam understands the enormous responsibility to the fans.

"First off, it's a privilege to own an NFL team and Dee puts it really well: We really view ourselves as stewards for our great fans and we need to be a heck of a lot better stewards than we have been,'' he said. "Has it been harder than we thought? Absolutely. But we're going to do this. The enthusiasm and the loyalty and support of our fans is tremendous, and they deserve better than what we've given them and we're going to get it right.''



If there is one thing the Browns are good at, it's circling the wagons.

J/C

I'm curious to see how "appropriately aggressive in free agency" plays out.

What is the problem between the Browns/Haslam and LaConfora.

I saw the video of Haslam after the game yesterday and while some of you just hate haslam and thing he's a crook or something, but he seemed sincere.

But what is the deal with him and LaConfora.... Does this go back to Lombardi getting canned or something like that?

Do the names Rahim Moore, Jackson Jeffcoat, Demario Davis, and Alvin Bailey ring a bell?

"First off, it's a privilege to own an NFL team and Dee puts it really well: We really view ourselves as stewards for our great fans and we need to be a heck of a lot better stewards than we have been,'' he said. "Has it been harder than we thought? Absolutely. But we're going to do this. The enthusiasm and the loyalty and support of our fans is tremendous, and they deserve better than what we've given them and we're going to get it right.''

I know it's easy to be angry or upset at Haslam - he came in and booted out Chud who had looked promising early in the year before losing the team and players late in the season. He put in place a dysfunctional team of Farmer and Pet. He's had his business activities and ethics examined and questioned. There is a lot of easy targeting to be had to ridicule and hate on Haslam.

But under Randy Lerner owning the team for 10 years I never once heard Randy say anything much like this and taking responsibility for the product on the field as the owner. . . . I am sure some who have already made up their mind about Haslam and are unwilling to reconsider will believe this is simply a marketing opportunity for a clever business man only interested in being cheap and pocketing profit. . . . to me it takes a lot of courage and honesty to state publicly how much better as an owner they need to be. Personally I will take his words at face value. I like Hue and think he wears his heart on his sleeve - I don't see him towing the line and playing politics if he thought Haslam was full of chit.