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Browns coaches to push owner Jimmy Haslam for front office changesHue Jackson isn't expected to call for the dismissal of top executives, but the flow chart could change Jason La Canfora While much-maligned Browns owner Jimmy Haslam has been preaching continuity during another lost season, after years of making constant changes in the coaching and front office ranks, a management shake-up is hardly out of the question. The Browns' coaches have deep concerns with the direction of the personnel department, according to numerous team and league sources, and will discuss the matter with Haslam soon. While coach Hue Jackson is not planning to request the removal of top football man Sashi Brown, or the influential analytics department he has built, the sources said there will be a strong push to ownership to reconsider the flow chart. The coaches would like a proven, old-school talent evaluator involved in player selection to provide checks and balances with the current setup. Frankly, the issue should be no surprise after a one-win season when their bevy of draft picks have provided little production. Plus, several former players who were cut or not re-signed are thriving on more successful clubs. There are deep concerns, with the team still lacking a quarterback and this 2017 draft pivotal for the future, that merely letting the same process unfold this spring could bring dire consequences. Hiring a former general manager to oversee player evaluation is seen as imperative. It remains to be seen how Haslam or the football operations department receives this. Coaches are aware of Haslam's sensitivity to change given his almost yearly reboots. They will encourage any addition to be someone who can coexist with those in place -- however naïve that may prove. Ironically, the organization had at least three former high-ranking officials from other NFL franchises on staff prior to last year's draft, when they were part of the latest Browns purge. As reported months ago, the front office also has some concerns with Jackson's staff -- defensive coordinator Ray Horton in particular -- and there could be a movement to urge the coach to alter his staff. Cleveland won its first game last week over San Diego and has won only four games since Thanksgiving of 2014. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/browns...office-changes/
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 01/01/17 11:54 AM.
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The Browns still believe in coach Hue Jackson, even if it turns out to be a one-win season. Owner Jimmy Haslam still believes in the analytical-based approach of their higher-ups. But the Browns are said to be searching for a little more scouting muscle. The expectation is for Cleveland to hire a top scout, likely right below GM Sashi Brown, to serve as the main football voice and be charged with finding the kind of players Jackson covets. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...ign=Twitter_atn
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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You can never have too many good scouts
Key word is good
Last edited by Jester; 01/01/17 10:57 AM.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Ian Rappoport on Twitter:
Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet · 6h6 hours ago
#Browns likely to hire top personnel executive, #Jets, #Ravens & #Broncos to make offensive changes, SD mulling move
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Charley Casserly's reply to Rapoport's tweet ...
Charley Casserly ‏@CharleyCasserly · 3h3 hours ago
@RapSheet @NFL The top personnel people will be reluctant to take the job without GM authority meaning at least control of the Draft
2 replies 2 retweets
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Let the tug of war commence.
#GMSTRONG
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This is a must ... until we do that ... imo ... this set up and what appears to be an analytics driven system is doomed for failure .. we need an actual football guy thats not from harvard ...
Lets hope the thief does this ... this makes sense ...
PLEASE go get a GOOD football guy to guide this ship and help Hue get the types of players he wants ....
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I understand why this report is out there (as it has been discussed on this board quite a bit) but I am worried about the ramifications of a move like this. (1) I'm guessing it would be someone that slides in-between Sashi and Berry in the flow chart. What would happen to Berry? Not that I think he's a stud or anything....just curious. (2) Someone infused into the scouting team can create issues after this current team did all of it's work on college players and it may not coincide with what this new person likes/wants. That could create issues just a few months up to the draft. (3) We're just completing year one of this new plan. Right or wrong, why change things up again? For those upset Jimmy changes directions every year or so, this is doing it again. (4) Were these coaches part of the decision making process that wanted RG3 and Kessler? I'm interested to know who these coaches are.....Maybe if Mike Silver came out with the report, we'd know its Hue Jackson. Coaches could be anyone, not just the top positions. Dawgs By Nature came out with the reports and this was written towards the end: I’m always a believer that hiring a “top scout” type of guy can only disrupt the upcoming draft selection process, because that person would probably clash with the groupthink that has already been in place for however many months. So there is a risk in bringing in a top guy like that with respect to disrupting the relationship between the front office and the coaching staff; although Sashi Brown still maintaining the final say could alleviate my concerns.
One thing that jumps out at me is, “what would this mean for Andrew Berry?” Isn’t he already supposed to be the top scouting guy below Brown? This sums up my concerns about a move like this. Sure it can work, but I don't like the theme of changing this up yet again.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Kinda figured this would happen, bound to after a season like this I hope haslam sides with the coaches on this, I care less if it upsets Sashi, he's proven nothing and has done nothing to deserve the power he has, Jackson and most of his staff have had success in the league. Anyone with a set of eyes can see that they can't manage personnel by draft or FA. Getting a proven talent evaluator/negotiator wouldn't be the worst thing. Let sashi figure out how to keep it all together
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Without shuffling things up too much, perhaps Haslam could bring in a "personnel consultant" with the expertise of a Ron Wolf-type to assist in the draft and offer scouting advice. Not that we took full advantage of his services years ago.
The position would necessarily be in sync with Hue's vision but not disrupt the chain of command. A behind-the-scenes type deal?
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PLEASE go get a GOOD football guy to guide this ship and help Hue get the types of players he wants .... This scares me Diam... We have failed in finding a successful football guy for the team.. As much as we have failed in finding a successful QB. I would have to side with how the coaching staff feels..I would only hope the very right guy gets the job.. This feels like a very stressful situation ahead. Are there any names out there that would be the right fit ?
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I believe something like this has always been possible and might even be a part of the plan. At the same time, I'm skeptical that this story might be mostly conjecture by the likes of LaCanfora and Mary Kay because this FO and Coach have kept things VERY tight to the vest. Legit leaks are almost non-existent with these guys.
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Are there any names out there that would be the right fit ? No idea who would be a good candidate, but I agree with Casserly that nobody worth having is going to take the job without the GM title and final say over talent acquisition. That would mean that Berry and DePodesta would report to him. I suppose they could kick Sashi upstairs to "President" and give the new guy Sashi's current title (Executive VP - Football Ops).
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This story sounds made up.
Who are the coaches that are going to "push" their billionaire owner?
Who other than Hue has a direct line to Haslam?
Who are LaCanfora's "team and other league sources"? LOL.
People will believe anything. That's why the liar and plagiarizer has a job.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Where there is smoke...Mary Kay asked about bringing in a GM a couple of weeks? ago.
Right now the information is too vague for me....
It is a bit disconcerting that coaches are leaking to media before the organization has made a decision or statement.
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The obvious issue at hand is authority.
Scouts have no authority.
Remember when all of the scouts told Butch Davis to draft Tomlinson. His reply was I know this guy Warren.
At some point the draft selection process can not be a democracy. Someone has to have the authority.
I can't foresee a true GM guy being brought in and someone above having the final say.
There is nothing more important than this. If the Browns can not figure this out there is no hope.
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The obvious issue at hand is authority.
Scouts have no authority.
Remember when all of the scouts told Butch Davis to draft Tomlinson. His reply was I know this guy Warren.
At some point the draft selection process can not be a democracy. Someone has to have the authority.
I can't foresee a true GM guy being brought in and someone above having the final say.
There is nothing more important than this. If the Browns can not figure this out there is no hope.
So basically there is no hope. Got it. Time to pack up the Browns gear until Haslam is no longer around. What a complete idiot.
After 55 years, I'm walking away from this dumpster fire. Good luck to everyone who continues to hang on. You'll need it.
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I can't foresee a true GM guy being brought in and someone above having the final say. I think this is a great point and something I was going to point out in my next post. You want a true GM, well, that GM will want final say in personnel. I don't see Brown giving that up, although anything is possible. If a hire happens that JLC is alluding to, it may point to the fact that Jimmy did this on his own and could spell additional issues within Berea.....again. Also, the article mentioned 'old school' scouting. Why would Brown hire someone that has this approach? This is not to say this is bad just wildly different. Fundamentally, isn't old school the exact opposite of what they're trying to do? Brown would hire someone that embraces analytics and what they're currently doing, right?....not someone with the mindset that could be inconsistent with that approach. I also don't understand the check n balances argument either. Berry is your personnel guy. I thought he provides the checks and balances. If the Browns don't like him, replace him. Throwing someone else in-between Berry and Browns doesn't add up to me.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Who are the coaches that are going to "push" their billionaire owner? My sources say that Hue Jackson and Ray Horton met to talk about it, and when Ray asked "who is going to approach Jimmy?" Hue answered "let's send Tabor, he's Teflon.". True story. Okay, not really.
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If true, this is dumb.
Pick a plan and stick with it.
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The guy I'd like is Duke Tobin.. steal him away from the bungles.
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The guy I'd like is Duke Tobin.. steal him away from the bungles. No one of note is going to leave their current job to not be the GM (if their current team would even allow them to interview).
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I don't know if this story is true or not, but I heard the same argument from many posters when JLC said there was dysfunction w/in the Browns organization a couple of years ago. Turns out he was right and our posters were wrong.
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The guy I'd like is Duke Tobin.. steal him away from the bungles. No one of note is going to leave their current job to not be the GM (if their current team would even allow them to interview). Tobin has gone as far as he can in Cincy.. the Brown family is entrenched at the top.
SaintDawg™
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The guy I'd like is Duke Tobin.. steal him away from the bungles. No one of note is going to leave their current job to not be the GM (if their current team would even allow them to interview). Tobin has gone as far as he can in Cincy.. the Brown family is entrenched at the top. So they will allow him to leave, for a division rival, and he will take a lesser role?
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The guy I'd like is Duke Tobin.. steal him away from the bungles. No one of note is going to leave their current job to not be the GM (if their current team would even allow them to interview). Tobin has gone as far as he can in Cincy.. the Brown family is entrenched at the top. So they will allow him to leave, for a division rival, and he will take a lesser role? Who said anything about a lesser role?
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If true, this is dumb.
Pick a plan and stick with it. What if the plan they're using now is dumb? Forget all the hoo-ha about management by consensus; when all the opinions are considered, someone still has to make the final decision. I would rather that person be a football guy than Sashi.
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If true, this is dumb.
Pick a plan and stick with it. What if the plan they're using now is dumb? Forget all the hoo-ha about management by consensus; when all the opinions are considered, someone still has to make the final decision. I would rather that person be a football guy than Sashi. It's been less than one year. "Football guys" screw up too.
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The guy I'd like is Duke Tobin.. steal him away from the bungles. No one of note is going to leave their current job to not be the GM (if their current team would even allow them to interview). Tobin has gone as far as he can in Cincy.. the Brown family is entrenched at the top. So they will allow him to leave, for a division rival, and he will take a lesser role? Who said anything about a lesser role? So now Sashi Brown is going to willingly take a back seat?
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The Browns do need someone who has proven to be successful in evaluating talent. How that will actually work out is the issue.
Haslam seems to be backed in a corner with the current setup he created. How will Haslam be able to hire this proven executive with the current setup? I can't imagine this guy coming on board without being given some authority. Would this mean Sashi is out as the de facto GM? I can't imagine someone signing on for this and having to report to Sashi who has all of 1 year scouting under his belt.
Where would this leave Andrew Berry who was supposed to be the "top talent evaluator." There is reason the Browns had to hire someone with minimal experience in a 28 year old Berry. Experienced executives were not likely to sign on to this current setup.
Will the new guy (assuming this actually happens) have confidence in Hue and his staff. Seems like a power struggle waiting to happen.
This franchise always seems to do everything completely backwards.
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What makes you think that Sashi was ever qualified for the job?
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It has only been one year, but early results are pretty dismal ... 1-14 record, and only 1 drafted player out of 13 making any real contributions (Ogbah).
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The guy I'd like is Duke Tobin.. steal him away from the bungles. No one of note is going to leave their current job to not be the GM (if their current team would even allow them to interview). Tobin has gone as far as he can in Cincy.. the Brown family is entrenched at the top. So they will allow him to leave, for a division rival, and he will take a lesser role? Who said anything about a lesser role? So now Sashi Brown is going to willingly take a back seat? Who said anything about willingly? Look.. there are times when I agree with Diam. I'm not that interested in arguing with you.. I just think we need to add a football guy with experience and success to the mix. This is a must ... until we do that ... imo ... this set up and what appears to be an analytics driven system is doomed for failure .. we need an actual football guy thats not from harvard ...
Lets hope the thief does this ... this makes sense ...
PLEASE go get a GOOD football guy to guide this ship and help Hue get the types of players he wants .... IMO.. this is spot on. I'm aware that football guys screw up too.. but the guys we have running the show are short on experience.. and so far the results show that. The crook has been running businesses for awhile now he should be able to set up a workable structure.
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these new guys blew the draft....its the first time we ever blew the draft? lol
I`m good with Baker... Playoffs is good enough for me.
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imagine this team with 12 or 14 more new players...a dozen new rookies to add to these guys..oh my
they might need to draft 4 qbs and 5 olinemen just to be safe
I`m good with Baker... Playoffs is good enough for me.
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someone still has to make the final decision. I would rather that person be a football guy than Sashi. What a revolving door..Whether this story is true or not..It appears the conversion has led back to the very same discussions that were being discussed at the end of last season. The door seems to stop at the same place, season after season.
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When Jimmy gets indicted things will change rapidly.
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I guess I don't blame the coaching staff for wanting somebody fresh in the front office.
We can talk about the coaching on the field, but at the end of the day, the roster that this FO handed Hue,....I mean damn Jesus could've performed miracles and it would've only gave us an extra win with this lack of talent.
The coaching staff wants cream of the crop players. The FO *seems* to want to be cheap asses.
I don't have much confidence that the FO will stay at #1 or #2 overall. I feel like they are gonna try and trade back again. And maybe the coaching staff feels the same way.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Hell, if they'd just stop trying to outsmart themselves they'd improve immensely. This front office has a history of doing the exact wrong thing. They could simply take CBS's draft board, pick from that, and improve their draft record tenfold.
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So we blow up the front office after one year?
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Coaches to Push Owner Jimmy
Haslam for Front Office Changes
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