I wasn't saying that you were making excuses for Cam. I meant that a lot of people have been making excuses for him since he started playing last year.
I only brought up your point about his base because I don't think he plays w/a good base. He plays too upright. That was the only comment I made directed to you. Sorry about the confusion. I did say that you make a lot of good posts, though. And you do. I have been noticing that, especially in the draft forum.
Sorry for not being clear.
No problem. It didn't seem you meant I was making excuses. I've seen those around. Just thought I'd clarify my view to show there is a middle ground to be had for both sides. I don't think there's many who want him cut yesterday or many who want hue to name him the starting center for 2017 but some people sure act that way
I really enjoy the draft. It's always been my thing. I'm a statistical analysis and probability major so that coupled with die hard browns fan makes the draft my obsession. Especially with the new FO.
You are good at changing the subject. Cam stinks. Debate that.
You are very good at picking fights and trying to bully people. You clearly not only have anger issues, but control issues as well. I'm not going to indulge your spitefulness with a debate, because I don't think that Cam is good. From the moment he was drafted and even now, I think it was one of the most moronic draft mistakes in recent history. Certainly in the top 3 with Gilbert and Johnny being the other two. Don't believe me? I don't care, you can search all my posts. I'd link you to the search result, but you can't get a link to a search query on here.
At best, I'd say I was highly optimistic towards his future here during the offseason, but I soon awoke to how ridiculous that idea was once pads were put on. Overall, my stance hasn't change. It was a moronic move to draft him and force an all pro center off the team because Farmer is a petty dude.
So no, I'm not going to indulge you with a "debate" (read: fight, as that is really what you want), because you don't need me for that. You already do it with everyone else.
You are very good at picking fights and trying to bully people. You clearly not only have anger issues, but control issues as well. I'm not going to indulge your spitefulness with a debate
You got all of that out of this:
[quote]You are good at changing the subject. Cam stinks. Debate that./quote]
I just wanted to know why you were attacking mac and not addressing the topic at hand, which was supposed to be about Cam.
And you keep calling me a bully. That is rich. I stand alone. I don't gang up on anyone, very much unlike you.
I didn't like Erving when the draft approached...what stood out to me at FSU was his guard play around him was superb (Tre Jackson and Josuie Mathias) both his guards shined on tape whenever watching him play...I thought Erving was a project to be a swing tackle maybe like a Nat Dorsey...tall with soft bodies and disoriented feet...same still holds true
When Erving was a rookie and we had Mack I noted that Erving looked awkward even when standing in or around a huddle...his play doesn't stand out one bit...he's slow mentally and physically...I don't know but his football IQ appears to be poor...he is often mismatched prior to the snap and then reacts late...physically he plays too upright and gets tossed around like he's 180lbs..
Erving makes Melvin Fowler look all-pro...
In hope...he really dedicates himself his technique and strength this offseason...if not he's not going to be around much longer imo...least not at center
I know people think he's getting better, but whenever I see this thread title, I can't get this video and all those plays where he gets blown up out of my mind:
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Center Cameron Erving will make the transition from center to right tackle on Sunday against the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Erving practiced at right tackle on Wednesday. It is unknown whether or not he will start. Head coach Hue Jackson hinted that the move could happen in November.
The lineman is excited for the new step.
“It is definitely a little exciting just to be able to potentially have that opportunity to go out and play tackle again because although I have never played right tackle, it would be definitely cool to be able to go out there and play a game at right tackle and just kind of gauge where I am at. We will see," Erving said.
During his rookie season, the Florida State product primarily played offensive guard which did not go well. The center experiment has not been much better. Can he be effective at offensive tackle after one week of practice?
“Potentially, if anything does happen, we will see. It is the last game of the season, and it is what the coaches want to see. They want to see different combinations and maybe I play right tackle in the game, maybe I don’t, but only time will tell.”
Despite the move, he believes he took some strides at center from the beginning of the season to the end.
“Just as a center, being able to take more compact footwork. I am a big guy in there in the middle and just being able to move around and not be tripping over people because we had a lot of those situations earlier in the season, but it is football and things like that are going to happen. When you have a tall center, those are the things that we focused on most of the season, just trying to make sure we minimize tripping over each other and just making sure we stay compact and just playing physical. Those are the things I feel like I have improved on the most," he finished.
Erving was the 19th overall choice by Cleveland as part of the 2015 NFL Draft. Veteran Austin Pasztor is currently the starter at right tackle. link
Browns notebook: Cameron Erving practices at right tackle instead of center, excited about experiment
By Nate Ulrich Beacon Journal sports writer Published: December 28, 2016 - 06:32 PM link
BEREA: Browns coach Hue Jackson said in November offensive lineman and 2015 first-round draft pick Cameron Erving would be moved to tackle if things didn’t work out for him at center.
Well, Erving practiced Wednesday as the starting right tackle while the Browns (1-14) prepared for their season finale on the road Sunday against the Pittsburgh Steelers (10-5).
It’s a clear indication the Browns don’t believe Erving will be their center of the future. It’s also a sign they’re interested to find out whether his career can be salvaged at another position.
“It’s the last game of the season, and it’s what the coaches want to see,” Erving said after practice. “They want to see different combinations. Maybe I play right tackle in the game. Maybe I don’t. Only time will tell.”
At Florida State University, Erving started 37 games at left tackle before moving to center for the final five games. Former Browns General Manager Ray Farmer then drafted Erving 19th overall with a plan to have him succeed three-time Pro Bowl center Alex Mack, who left the Browns in March as a free agent.
Last season, Erving struggled mightily as a rookie in four starts at guard (he also dabbled at right tackle in training camp). He has started 12 games at center this season with disappointing results.
So Erving, 24, is not opposed to giving right tackle a shot.
“It’s definitely a little exciting, just to be able to potentially have that opportunity to go out and play tackle again,” Erving said.
“I’m definitely confident in my ability, regardless of where I’m playing on the offensive line, and I’m still firm on that,” he added. “Given the opportunity to put all my efforts into one position, I can play any position on the offensive line.”
Is right tackle the best spot for Erving?
“It’ll be tough to say until you see him out there in a game,” 10-time Pro Bowl left tackle Joe Thomas said. “I think he’s a versatile guy, which is sometimes good, sometimes bad, and I think he’s shown the ability to play a lot of positions so far.”
In addition to playing experience in college, there’s another reason to believe tackle is a better fit for Erving than center. Listed at 6-foot-5 and 313 pounds, he’s taller than a prototypical center.
“The two things that would make being taller at center difficult is a lot of times you’re playing against really short, squatty nose guards, so you have to bend even further to get leverage to get under them,” Thomas said.
“And then the second issue is when you’re a center, you have a guy on either side of you the whole time that’s usually working in combination with you, and if you’re taller, you can’t use as wide of a base ’cause you’re going to step on each other’s feet whereas if you’re a tackle, you can kind of elongate your base.”
Erving conceded he and the guards have had to focus on “just trying to make sure we minimized tripping over each other and just making sure we stayed compact.”
If the Browns choose to start Erving at right tackle Sunday, they could move Austin Pasztor from right tackle to right guard and summon backup center Anthony Fabiano.
Reviewing roster move
The movement on the offensive line might explain in part why the Browns on Tuesday waived Jonathan Cooper, a former first-round pick of the Arizona Cardinals who started the past three games at right guard. Cooper is scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent in March.
“We saw what we needed to see,” Jackson said. “We appreciate the time that Jonathon was here, but we thought that was the best decision for us to move forward.”
Awards season
The local chapter of the Pro Football Writers of America voted Thomas the Browns’ player of the year and inside linebacker Chris Kirksey the Dino Lucarelli “Good Guy Award” winner.
Thomas is the only player in team history to receive the honor more than once and the only lineman to win the award since its inception in 2001. He was selected player of the year in 2014, too.
“Joe is probably my player of the year, too, for what he has done for our football team and organization for being out there playing,” Jackson said. “I can’t say enough about a guy that does not miss a football snap. That is dependability at its best.”
The “Good Guy Award” is given annually to a player for his cooperation with the media and for the way he carries himself in the community and with his teammates.
Kirksey also ranks fourth in the NFL this season with a career-high 136 tackles to go along with 1.5 sacks and three passes defensed. He has started all 15 games.
“Kirko is a rising football player on our football team and within pro football itself,” Jackson said. “He has had a hell of a year and he needs to keep growing, but I think he gets it. It is about team for him. It has never just been about him, and I appreciate it. At the end of the day, your good guys have to be that way because they have to keep pulling people over this wall as we move forward.”
Another honor
Parma Heights native Jamie Meder was named the AFC Special Teams Player of the Week after he blocked a 32-yard field goal with 3:45 left in the fourth quarter of the Browns’ 20-17 win over the San Diego Chargers on Christmas Eve.
He is the first Browns defensive lineman to become the AFC Special Teams Player of the Week.
Win for food bank
A large faction of Browns fans had planned to hold a sarcastic “perfect season parade” if the team finished the season with a dreaded record of 0-16. Event organizers had raised more than $10,000 to pay for expenses.
After the Browns captured their first victory this past weekend and avoided a winless season, parade planners vowed to donate the money they raised to the Greater Cleveland Food Bank. The Browns then committed to donating an additional $10,000 to the food bank.
Injury report
The following Browns players didn’t practice Wednesday: quarterback Robert Griffin III (concussion), cornerbacks Joe Haden (neck, groin) and Trey Caldwell (hamstring), running back Duke Johnson (ankle), outside linebacker Cam Johnson (groin) and Thomas (knee).
Cornerback Jamar Taylor (groin), tight end Randall Telfer (ankle, thumb), long snapper Charley Hughlett (hamstring) and inside linebacker Dominique Alexander (abdominal, groin) were limited.
I don't understand why so many people what this guy gone. We have bigger problems. Like our injured guards for one.
At least he can stay on the field. Can't count on bitonio for anything.
Wow. Just wow.
Bitonio is a bigger problem than Cam? If our line sicks so bad, isn't it the fault of the guys who are on the field?
Cam has no business being on the field. All of his supporters last year said his problems are because he was not at center, his "natural position". What is the excuse this year?
I don't understand why so many people what this guy gone. We have bigger problems. Like our injured guards for one.
At least he can stay on the field. Can't count on bitonio for anything.
Wow. Just wow.
Bitonio is a bigger problem than Cam? If our line sicks so bad, isn't it the fault of the guys who are on the field?
Cam has no business being on the field. All of his supporters last year said his problems are because he was not at center, his "natural position". What is the excuse this year?
Not defending Cam, because he has not played well...but his "natural position" is tackle, not center. He played one year at FSU at center, but played defensive tackle his frosh year, then started at Left Tackle for (2) years, soph and Junior years, before being moved to center his senior year after an injury to their starting center. He played well there, but his "natural position", is tackle.
Not defending Cam, because he has not played well...but his "natural position" is tackle, not center. He played one year at FSU at center, but played defensive tackle his frosh year, then started at Left Tackle for (2) years, soph and Junior years, before being moved to center his senior year after an injury to their starting center. He played well there, but his "natural position", is tackle.
So pretty much, even in college, they couldn't figure out what to do with him.. Great.. lol
So far, he reminds me of a cheap knock-off Swiss Army knife.
Won't do any job as well as a dedicated specialist, but something you should probably carry at the bottom of your pack (if you can afford to carry the weight).
What's sad is that he's being used every game, instead of parked on the bench.
Got to run...going out there to get a gym membership and finish my rehab there.
did it mention who is moving to CENTER??? I have always wanted Drango to start checking out Center but not now in the off season? I can see him possibly playing RT especially if he feels comfortable at it.
But draft pick wise he was suppose to be the best Center in the draft at the time...and that was with all the draft experts. But now its past the draft if he can play RT then so be it.
He didn't start at RT...somebody asked...he started at OG.
Got to get us some Big 10 OLmen...right Big Ten is Ohio State, Mich. State, Penn State, Wis., Mich.???
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Got to run...going out there to get a gym membership and finish my rehab there.
did it mention who is moving to CENTER??? I have always wanted Drango to start checking out Center but not now in the off season? I can see him possibly playing RT especially if he feels comfortable at it.
But draft pick wise he was suppose to be the best Center in the draft at the time...and that was with all the draft experts. But now its past the draft if he can play RT then so be it.
He didn't start at RT...somebody asked...he started at OG.
Got to get us some Big 10 OLmen...right Big Ten is Ohio State, Mich. State, Penn State, Wis., Mich.???
jmho
wait where did you find drango moving to center? Haven't seen that report?
Not defending Cam, because he has not played well...but his "natural position" is tackle, not center. He played one year at FSU at center, but played defensive tackle his frosh year, then started at Left Tackle for (2) years, soph and Junior years, before being moved to center his senior year after an injury to their starting center. He played well there, but his "natural position", is tackle.
So pretty much, even in college, they couldn't figure out what to do with him.. Great.. lol
Colleges tend to bounce olinemen around all the time. There are very few kids at the age of 18 who have definitive positions as they're still growing and growing into their body. Not to mention the constant turnover of the starting linemen due to graduation, the draft and players transferring.
Not defending Cam, because he has not played well...but his "natural position" is tackle, not center. He played one year at FSU at center, but played defensive tackle his frosh year, then started at Left Tackle for (2) years, soph and Junior years, before being moved to center his senior year after an injury to their starting center. He played well there, but his "natural position", is tackle.
So pretty much, even in college, they couldn't figure out what to do with him.. Great.. lol
what happened was that he was a good LT for them but after Stork left their centers were a mess, so they moved him inside because they had Roderick Johnson as a freshman who could play LT but nobody who could play center.
So far it looks like the Browns reporters are saying that it's only a possibility that Cam moves to tackle for this last game, but they guess Anthony Fabiano would start at center.
I did find this article about Cam's thoughts on the center position. And maybe I'm looking a bit too into it, but it might shed some light why Cooper was cut.
"“Just as a center, being able to take more compact footwork,” Erving said. “I am a big guy in there in the middle and just being able to move around and not be tripping over people because we had a lot of those situations earlier in the season, but it is football and things like that are going to happen.
“When you have a tall center, those are the things that we focused on most of the season, just trying to make sure we minimize tripping over each other and just making sure we stay compact and just playing physical. Those are the things I feel like I have improved on the most.”"
Could it be that Cooper and Erving were just too big to play inside together? Cooper is rather massive. Maybe they were just too clumsy to play together?
My only surprise is it took this long. I am surprised that Cooper is gone though. Granted he was terrible in the Chargers game but he was very good in the previous game....and he's played some center with Zona. Tough break for Cooper.
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
I don't understand why so many people what this guy gone. We have bigger problems. Like our injured guards for one.
At least he can stay on the field. Can't count on bitonio for anything.
Wow. Just wow.
Bitonio is a bigger problem than Cam? If our line sicks so bad, isn't it the fault of the guys who are on the field?
Cam has no business being on the field. All of his supporters last year said his problems are because he was not at center, his "natural position". What is the excuse this year?
Not defending Cam, because he has not played well...but his "natural position" is tackle, not center. He played one year at FSU at center, but played defensive tackle his frosh year, then started at Left Tackle for (2) years, soph and Junior years, before being moved to center his senior year after an injury to their starting center. He played well there, but his "natural position", is tackle.
I am not saying center is his natural position. I'm saying when posters were commenting on his lousy play last year other posters defended Cam saying that center was his natural position and he'd be fine once he moved there.
I agree that one season in college does not make it his natural position. It seems in the NFL he does not have one, or one he is competent at.
There is no telling whether he could become competent at multiple positions or none at all. But I will say that with his skill set and physical abilities if there is one position he could be best at it would be RT.
My only surprise is it took this long. I am surprised that Cooper is gone though. Granted he was terrible in the Chargers game but he was very good in the previous game....and he's played some center with Zona. Tough break for Cooper.
So the OL is gonna be:
JT--Drango--Fabiano--Pastor?-Erving
I am also surprised, disappointed actually. With this change in the lineup, we better have several QB's on hand...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
Got to run...going out there to get a gym membership and finish my rehab there.
did it mention who is moving to CENTER??? I have always wanted Drango to start checking out Center but not now in the off season? I can see him possibly playing RT especially if he feels comfortable at it.
But draft pick wise he was suppose to be the best Center in the draft at the time...and that was with all the draft experts. But now its past the draft if he can play RT then so be it.
He didn't start at RT...somebody asked...he started at OG.
Got to get us some Big 10 OLmen...right Big Ten is Ohio State, Mich. State, Penn State, Wis., Mich.???
jmho
wait where did you find drango moving to center? Haven't seen that report?
Please reread that, I get it that its hard to follow sometimes. But this is just a mental thought that I have had...not something that I have read from the Browns. To answer my own question we might start the kid from Harvard we just brought up from our practice squad, IF WE decide to start Erving at RT.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
I was optimistic to see him back at tackle but with an inconsistent effort we can't consider him part of the future. If he can hang on as a backup, by all means. But as far as I'm concerned as of now we have Thomas, bitonio, Greco, Coleman and drango. The rest aren't safe in the slightest. We need at least 2 guys out of the draft minimum including a starting center.
Yeah considering his versatility, system familiarity and his cap penalty he'll likely stick as a backup which is not a bad thing he can be valuable. It's just an issue if he's still starting. I'm hesitant on FA OL. Good ones only usually reach FA if they're past their prime or a product of their scheme. I cant see this front office splurging on a 30 year old OL and I don't forsee any big names not being resign like mack or schwartz. Could be wrong though.
Agree - I don't think Cam should be a starter anywhere along the line. I really don't like the idea of him being your #1 backup at RT or C ... Was it Reiter that came in and looked good before getting hurt? . . . .
This is an example of what has hurt the Browns so consistently so badly for so long - we spend a high draft pick on a C 2 years ago - and now it's a pressing area of need .... or if you want to roll with Reiter its an area of uncertainty.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Yeah everyone keeps bringing up reiter and i really hope he continues where he left off but thats how you aquire depth. Bring in a guy who SHOULD start.
I think that titans pick is a prime spot to consider a C. It's a very good, while not flashy, class. 3 or 4 should start right away. People forget Greco likely won't be ready on time either.
Also with what you said about general drafting frankly were above average from that 15' 1st round. Most people think these gms are perfect but hitting a plus starter like Danny and a valuable backup is actually above average. It's that one or two drafts where you get lucky that makes a contender. Shoot even the God himself over in Baltimore has been as bad as we have been lately.
Plenty of good offensive linemen switch teams. The Raiders solidified their line by getting Osemele. Mack was a huge signing for Atl. As was Schwartz for KC. Veldheer left Oakland a couple of years ago and went to Arizona. Cordy Glenn, Incognito, Boone, etc. They can be found.
I just am not real high on this year's OL crop. There are some good guards, but our guards are not the problem.
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