DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Coaches to Push Owner Jimmy Haslam for Front Office Changes

Who have looked pretty dang well for rookies. The top 3 rounds are looking like solid choices.

Hue Jackson was an abysmal coach this year. A total abomination. He knows it. It's not really debatable.

I think he'll work hard to get better. Like he said him and the FO have to work hard to get better.

I think next year will be more of the same, but I hope I'm wrong.

I think Hue has put tremendous pressure on himself. They need to sit down as a group for some honest evaluation and if Hue needs to delegate more then that must be brought forth for discussion and action.

I suppose there's a chance like others have proven that the move from coordinator to HC isn't obtainable.

Oh, it absolutely is.

He was on his 3rd QB by game #2? The guy had how many starting QB's? With the youngest roster in the NFL. What did you expect?

Sure, he had moments of being totally wrong, but he showed me much more good than bad.

As for the FO, we'll see. I think most of the picks in the first 3 rounds from the last draft look like solid players. Devalve looks like he could be a good player, Kindred looks serviceable.

For year one, where rookies aren't supposed to be truly great, I thought Hue did a magnificent job of developing guys. Ogbah really grew into a player that could be a top talent.

Huge offseason for this group, though. They have to retain guys, they have to draft great talent, and they need to improve the roster to make significant strides.

It seems like Haslam said all the right things when addressing the press after the game. Whether or not he follows through is a different issue entirely.

It's more than debatable. The roster stinks. The FO/ownership has provided him w/garbage. And you want to blame Hue?

Do guys like you watch/listen to the games? Do you not hear the announcers each week marveling at much the players love/respect Hue? Do you realize how hard it is to keep a locker room together when you are losing so many games? I think it's a freaking miracle.

And I am going to ask this for a third time: What qualifications does Sashi have to warrant being in charge of an NFL franchise? And you guys wanna give the FO a pass and bash Hue?

Btw----------did anyone else catch the shots of Haslam and Sashi in the box yesterday? Wow! Haslam looked like he hadn't crapped in two weeks and was in severe pain. Sashi looked bored, disinterested, and arrogant. Watching them was actually uncomfortable.

I've been thinking about the Browns not making any changes to the FO since the report that P-Dawg posted.

The Browns are going to be bottom of the barrel in regards to talent again next year. They more than likely will not use free agency to build the team. They will more than likely continue to stock pile draft picks and miss out on impact players. They will more than likely lose a ton of games again next year.

And that will translate into coaches getting fired.

I don't know if the report that I posted to start this thread is true or not, but I can see why the coaching staff would want some experienced football people to help w/getting them some talent. It's going to be their butts on the line next year when this team continues to put up a high volume of losses.

Me? I'd keep Hue and his staff over Sashi and his any day of the week.

Vers, you have to admit Hue has many question marks.

Not nearly as many as Sashi.

Let me preface this by saying I'm a Steeler fan who has a vested interest in the Browns returning to being competitive as soon as possible. I miss the rivalry and I want it back. I agree with those that say cannot blow this thing up after a year. You have to see a plan through for at least 3-4 years eventually. Otherwise you are just repeating the same pattern of always starting over, like running in place and never going anywhere.

As far as draft picks go, I can totally understand how Browns fans would be highly skeptical of everything based on past misfires. However, the rookie year alone doesn't tell the story most times. As a Steeler fan I can tell you that Steeler rookies rarely make a significant impact right away. This year is an anomaly with 3 rookies playing significant time. Granted, the fact that they were desperate for help in the Secondary had a lot to do with it. If not, those guys wouldn't have gotten a shot this year. Even some of the best 1st Round picks they have made over the years were not given significant roles until year 2 and in some cases not until Year 3. They were used as Special teamers and backups at first. Bringing in new regimes all the time could be stunting the growth and development of Browns draft picks I think because they aren't the new regimes "guys" and they aren't as invested in them as they are in the guys they draft. As a result maybe they don't get as much time and patience to develop because the current group didn't draft them.

Just my .02.

Guys, with this complete breakdown to a pure rebuild, what did anyone really expect for this season? There were many saying they wouldn't win a game before they ever hit the field...Well that was pretty damn accurate.

We need to see this season for what it was, an evaluation of the roster..Most importantly the QBs. I don't doubt Hue was given an order to find out what he had in RGIII. Well, that went south rather quickly week 1. So, I believe he moved on to getting Kessler ready, and planned to use McCown to ease the transition...well, that went south a week later. So, the rookie 3rd rounder, with young inexperienced help on the roster was thrown in the deepend..and you know what happened? He was able to tread water. That in of itself should prove how valuable Hue Jackson is.

I don't think for a minute this coaching staff should be dismissed by any of you. Mistakes were made for the sake of evaluation... You can't find out if your QB has the mettle to lead, if you rely solely on the running game. Hue has shown in the past, when he was actually gameplanning for real, that he prefers a run heavy offense. He has always had a balanced game plan prior to this 2016 debacle, which is why I came to the conclusion he was tasked with getting what he could out of the QBs in order to evaluate them. RGIII, imho, was the biggest failure of this season, not Hue...or even Sashi.


Let's tell it like it is...this was a learning year for Sashi as well. He DIDN'T come from a football background...BUT...He does come from a sports background and from all indications, he is usually the smartest person in the room, no matter what room he is in.

If he really is that smart, shouldn't we assume, he learned some valuable lessons from this season and expect some marked improvement?

Man oh man, I am just tired of giving up on everyone after a single season, without even giving them a chance to grow and make this team better. Will we never learn from past mistakes?

re: the shot of the box -

I guess I would have felt more uncomfortable had they been smiling and pleasantly bantering.

But you're right - it was a (deservedly) grave look on their faces even when we were winning early on.

What would be the problem with adding another experienced voice to the mix? Sashi Brown, Paul DePodesta, and Andrew Berry make a lot of money to produce wins, and I'm not particularly concerned if adding a Rick Spielman or a Nick Caserio to the equation bruises their egos. We keep hearing about rebuilding, but the truth is we have no idea if the current group is capable of pulling it off. We know they are good at the tear-down phase of the process, but the demolition is really the easy part any "building project". The challenge is putting up a new, solid structure that will last and for the life of me, I don't understand why any fan would object to adding a "construction expert" to our existing team of "architects".

Then again, can too many cooks spoil the bologna cups?

Yeah, I get that, but Jimmy was the one who chose the "consensus model" for his management team, so that ship sailed. I'd just like to add one voice to the room who has "been there and done that" and who, ideally, would make final decisions re: personnel.

All kidding aside, I'd prefer he bring in a football guy too. I'm certainly not sold on our current path. He's said he's staying the course, so I'll take him at his word and not expect any changes. Too bad too.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't Andrew Berry the guy in the room who has "been there and done that"? He is the "football guy" with past experience with foot ball personnel. He was with the Colts in the personnel department for 7 years before joining the team. He is a former college player himself.

Look, all of these guys except Sashi came to the party a little late, Berry wasn't hired until the very end of January 2016. So to think they were prepared for free agency and the draft would be highly optimistic.

Given a full year to evaluate and process the needs, I think Berry will be a valuable voice in that room this off season...afterall, after getting their bearings, they did manage to trade for Collins for really no loss of anything. Worse case scenario, they move their 2017 3rd round comp pick to a 2018 3rd round comp pick...but if they manage to keep him on the roster, it could be a cornerstone move for the re-build.

Let's let them do their job over the next two seasons and then critique.

That's my take as well...

To be fair, I don't think he said ANY changes. I think it was said that he would not make any MAJOR changes. Gives him a little wiggle room.

I think its a little too soon to pick sides and assume defeat, personally. They have this offseason, a full year together, with their scouts and building relationships with their players. If they pull another last offseason, where Collins and Pryor leave, they do nothing in FA and trade back in the draft, then we might need to sharpen the pitch forks.

They deserve that much, at least IMO.

But wouldn't you agree that bringing in a football guy with final decision ability, a major change?

Yes I would. I also think that would upset the cart more than it would to help it. They could bring in someone and ease them into a role, but more than likely would be for next yr. as this year is pretty much set up for just the this group.

If both Pryor and Collins are on other team's rosters, they don't sign a single significant free agent AND trade down in the draft, then I would agree with you...

However, IF they sign Pryor to a new deal, sign or tag Collins and sign a significant free agent or two...then I will give them leeway in the draft.

If all of the above happens, I think they can afford to trade down a few spots if it gives them another first round pick in 2018.

Personally, I feel we need to make an impact in both 2017 and 2018.

Hear me out...

This is the NFL we are talking about..no matter how you or I feel about this QB class, Trubisky, Kiser and Watson will be elevated to "possible" future franchise QBs...I have no doubt in my mind that the Bears will be making a play for a QB in this draft..I also think when the dust settles, the 49ers will be doing the same...

In order for the Bears to get their guy, they need the #1 pick..PERIOD.

If they can trade the Bears and get their 1st/#3 overall, 3rd/#67 overall and 2018 first round picks, then to me it is a no brainer.

The Bears take their QB and if they take the 49ers QB, then the 49ers decide between Garret and Allen. I personally like Allen better, but either way...the Browns win.

So, trading back isn't necessarily a death wish, especially if there isn't a sure fire QB available...and I personally wouldn't want to be the guy to say which one of these QBs I would wager the franchise on over the next 5-10 years.

I was qualifying and verifying. I find it a hard position for someone to say that the current "GM" (Sashi) is the worst in Franchise history and then say they don't want to see that person replaced. . . . . Do you think / believe Sashi will grow and improve?

We both want the Browns to succeed - I want to give the FO a chance to see out their plan. It seems you don't like the plan and question the ability of the personnel. So how do you think they will improve and succeed without someone being fired or demoted?

I think the plan is dumb. I think it is destined to fail because the coaches are going to be on the hot seat for all the losses. Look at all the posts just last night. peen called Hue a punk and was talking about him hitting the road. And that is after one season.

This plan is like the 76ers plan. Jimmy even talked to the GM who orchestrated that genius plan. Attendance was horrid. That guy got fired and the team is still losing, while they are talking about trading some of their recent high draft picks for peanuts.

I think that Hue's fate has been sealed now that Jimmy has said he isn't going to make changes to the FO. And that is stupid as hell.

Now, for the fourth or is it the fifth time................What qualifications did Sashi have to acquire so much power and to be so almighty that we can't even give him some help?

Hue's fate was sealed when he lobbied for RG3. And I'll be honest with you, his continued support of RG3 makes me very uncomfortable. He's in love with the guy and for the life of me I haven't seen anything on the field that would indicate why.

Here's something else for you to consider. Hue has never wavered in his support of Sashi. Why do you think that Is? I suspect Hue is really the defacto GM and Sashi and Berry do his bidding. Sashi is only there to make everyone get along if someone decides to stand up to Hue. I'm not saying Hue is a bully. I'm saying it wouldn't surprise me if these guys defer to Hue. He has more experience than all of them. You've got Hue singing RG3's praises in the off season and next thing you know Sashi is talking about RG3 as the potential long term answer. I think Hue convinced him of that.

But the biggest problem this created is that if you want to give Sashi some help, if you want to bring in a guy to be the final say on players, you're basically starting over. There's no other way to do it. Which means after one year you've given up on your idea and haven't seen it through.

I agree.

RGIII is brittle.

They may bring in a "football guy" to work alongside or underneath Sashi but no one with a resume that screams "next GM". They've made their bed and have to lie in it and be as snug as they can be.

Unfortunately, after this year, I'm scared of the boogie man underneath said bed!

In the presser Sasha, DePodesta and Hue just had, they stated it emphatically, they are not adding anyone that isn't a player to the building.

Sashi Brown said, in the press conference today, that no one would be brought in.

To me, this is a good thing. Do not panic in the face of adversity. Have a plan and stick to it.

I understand the concern of people who do not like the current plan, but I am fascinated to see how it works (the NBA and MLB are basically only analytically front offices now, because it works). In other sports I love the "advanced stats" and I am excited for the future of this team.

It's not working too well for the 76ers, and they are the "face" of analytics.

Browns' Jimmy Haslam: 'We have the right people in place'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...art_river_index

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com on January 01, 2017 at 6:36 PM, updated January 01, 2017 at 8:03 PM

PITTSBURGH, Pa. -- Browns owner Jimmy Haslam really won't be blowing anything up this year.

Despite the 1-15 season, he's keeping his analytics-based personnel department intact and said he is overjoyed with Hue Jackson.

"I think we have the right people in place,'' Haslam said in an interview after Sunday's 27-24 overtime loss to the Steelers. "I could not be more pleased with the job that Hue and his staff are doing. You wouldn't think this was a team that was 1-14 that was out there battling. What did we play today? 70-plus minutes of football? So really pleased with Hue and really pleased with our personnel group.''

What makes him so sure he's got the right folks in place?

"It's intuitive,'' he said. "I'll just say I feel very strongly we've got the right group together and I think they're working exceptionally well together.''

Does he plan to add to a more traditional football talent evaluator to the staff, as several national reports have said he'll do? The current triumvirate consists of Executive Vice President of Football Operations Sashi Brown, Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta and Vice President of Player Personnel Andrew Berry. They have the No. 1 overall pick in April's draft and likely the No. 12 overall from the Eagles, and boatloads of cap space.

"We do not (plan to add anyone),'' he said. "If we do, it will be Sashi and Paul and AB's call, but we feel good about the people we've got in place."

As for a report by CBS Sports' Jason LaCanfora that Jackson will push for an experienced football guy in the front office, Haslam said, "I don't comment on reports from that reporter.''

Jackson, in the wake of reports that he's not happy with Brown, dispelled that notion.

"Let me say this and I don't want to answer any more questions about it: Me and Sashi are in lockstep trying to get this football team to be the best it is,'' he said. "We're going to get there. That's all I can tell you. We're together. We know what we're doing. We have work to do. We have to get better at what we're doing and we all understand that. This is hurtful for the whole organization, not just me.

"Sashi and Jimmy Haslam and Dee Haslam and Paul DePodesta and Andrew Berry too, we're all in this together. There's no divide here. We just need to get better. We'll do that.''

He added, "obviously I'm going to speak to Mr. Haslam just because that's what I do. We just need to continue to get better and stick to our plan of working through it and get to where we need to be.''

Haslam, who's had a quick hook since he took over in 2012, believes the innovative approach will pay dividends soon.

"It took us a while to get there and I'll take all the responsibility there as I've said in the past,'' he said. "I think this time last year we said this was going to be multiyear rebuilding. It is. Has this year been harder than we thought it would be?

"Yes, but I promise you this, we will work hard, I think we've got the right people in place and there's really three keys going forward. It's not that complicated. We've got to execute and the three things we have to execute are this: No. 1 we've got re-sign our key players; No. 2 we've got to be appropriately aggressive in free agency; and No. 3 we've got to have a great draft."

Haslam was quick to blame himself for the team's woes. Since assuming ownership in October of 2012, the Browns are 19-54. Since he installed his first leadership group of CEO Joe Banner and coach Rob Chudzinski in 2013, the Browns are 15-49. They've won four games the past two seasons.

"Clearly not an acceptable year,'' he said. "Since we bought the team, just totally unacceptable performance, which as ownership we'll take the entire blame for. Very disappointing all around. This year's been disappointing, but so are the other years.''

He acknowledged it's "premature'' to grade the new front office on the 2016 draft, which included trading down from No. 2 overall and picking up an extra first-rounder from Philadelphia this year and a second-rounder next year. If the Browns draft well, they can transform the team this offseason, and Haslam's betting on his crew.

"We deferred a lot of that to this year and next year with the picks we have,'' he said. "We have five of the top 65, and people forget Jamar Taylor. What did we trade, a seventh-round pick for him in the draft last year for him? So I think it's too early to judge these classes. This team that we played today has a guy, No. 84 (Antonio Brown), that I don't think many people remember him as a rookie, so I think all of us tend to judge people real quickly off their first year and it's a huge jump from college to the NFL.''

He noted that the 2016 and 2017 drafts are designed to provide the foundation for sustained success, and that the Browns weren't expected to make a big jump this year.

"Our entire organization will be judged in how well we do going forward, by how well our decisions - it's not all draft - which players do you keep, [do we] go out and be active in free agency or not?'' he said. "There are multiple people decisions that we'll need to make and you need to get right.''

He admitted, "our record as owners is terrible, but we're not giving up. Has it been fun? No. Is it discouraging at times? Yes. But are we gonna give up? No. We're more than ever determined to get this right. We haven't made good decisions along the way so we'll accept the blame.''

Despite the record, which is worse than anyone in the organization imagined, he sees light the at the end of the tunnel.

"There's no question,'' he said. "The effort, you could argue that effort-wise, our effort's been tremendous all year in particular here in the last two games. We're playing a lot of young guys and I think they got better. Shon Coleman came in today and played - I haven't looked at the tape - but played a very respectable second half so yeah, I think there are bright spots, but let's be realistic we're 1-15. We've got a lot of - I don't want to sugarcoat things - we've got a ways to go."

Haslam pointed out that "the group is together less than a year. I feel very good about how well they're working together in terms of both personnel and coaches.''

As for whether or not the Browns have their QB of the future on the roster, he said, "That's a question for Sashi and a question for Hue.''

Despite the record not validating his approach, he's standing his ground.

"We've learned from our previous mistakes and it's important to have continuity but until you get the right people in place, you've got to keep making moves,'' he said. "I'm excited about working with that group going forward and (even) more determined to turn this around.''

Haslam understands the enormous responsibility to the fans.

"First off, it's a privilege to own an NFL team and Dee puts it really well: We really view ourselves as stewards for our great fans and we need to be a heck of a lot better stewards than we have been,'' he said. "Has it been harder than we thought? Absolutely. But we're going to do this. The enthusiasm and the loyalty and support of our fans is tremendous, and they deserve better than what we've given them and we're going to get it right.''

#1 - The entire goal for the 76ers was to get a star player. Embiid is a future star. Ben Simmons hasn't played a game. They also have a ton of future assets. They suck right now, but not many young NBA teams are any good.

#2 - The Rockets are the "face" of analytics in the NBA. Their GM, Daryl Morey, literally started the SLOAN Conference.

#3 - There are dozens of other successful teams, from various different market sizes, that focus on "advanced stats" (basically every MLB has a "new school" front office and almost the entire NBA).

The 76ers have had abysmal attendance and fired the guy who orchestrated the entire thing.

They are looking to deal good players for peanuts.

They are still huge losers.

The Rockets are not a title contender. They don't play nearly enough defense to contend. Does analytics measure that?

I believe in analytics, but to sit there and say it is the way to go is premature and is misleading. I think it should be a tool to assist the football guys.

And for the fifth time: What qualifications does Sashi have to have earned so much power?

I don't think anyone has a problem is we bring in more help.

I just don't know it it is needed.

I don't think anyone is calling for a coaching change, especially with the HC. My only problem with the guy is he talks about running the ball, and then doesn't. We have good backs. Really good backs IMO. Crow isn't some frail kid. He is a Hoss. He can carry the ball 20-25 times a game. Take some pressure off of your QB. Play action only works if the other team respects the fact you actually run the ball. If the stats I just pulled up are accurate, and current, Crow averaged 12.3 carries a game....not enough for a good back. How many runs like yesterdays 63 yarder never happened because he was 1 carry away from getting it?

As for the FO, we will see. I think DePo will add to this draft. I don't think he will actually have much input on actual players selected. I think he will provide information. Information like what kind of impact will a edge rusher have over selecting a corner. How selecting player A over player B might be, or not be the best move to make. His input will help set a better board, or at least should if you believe in his method. Last year he was way new to be able to provide that information. For needs based lovers, he is your guy. He is going to be able to say selecting this position is going to have this percentage more impact on game outcome over selecting this position. He probably has it broken down by players as well. Meaning BPA will fall in to the mix....meaning that even though this guy in the short term won't have as much impact, long term he is a better selection.


Time for everybody to chill.

Just as it is way too early to draw conclusions on Hue and his staff, it is way too early to draw conclusions on the FO.

We are just going to have to sit back and see what transpires over the next season or two.

I thought the same thing Peen... then I wonder if a lot of it has to do with the not so good Line they are running behind...

In order to keep my health...I'm going to wait til draft day and next season before I let my blood pressure explode.. lol

Listen at the 5:20 mark the question was asked about the thread title...

As important as it is, it isn't so important to allow it to impact your health.


Between living 20 more years or following the Browns another 5, I choose the 20 more years. I have a pretty good life I want to hang on to as long as possible.

j/c and catching up...

This is a general question, though it may speak to some of Vers' posts a little more directly, but I have yet to see anywhere that the coaches don't like the players that have been obtained either through the draft or off of waivers etc. OK, apparently there was some disagreement over the Kicker earlier in the year... but past that?

I'm just not prepared to accept the premise that Hue comes in Tuesday morning with that weeks memo from Sashi already sitting on his desk telling him what players he is being given whether he likes it or not.

a) Unless someone is prepared to say that Jimmy outright lied to Hue about what they were planning on doing with analytics and the set up of the FO, Hue willingly signed on to what these guys have been trying to do. Furthermore, Hue also convinced Horton to come back who as we recall had already experienced dysfunction in Cleveland first hand.

b) Despite the quality of the roster, Hue did manage to keep these guys together and playing for him. I think we can see that in the post game locker room speech after the San Diego game. I just don't see it likely that he would have been able to accomplish this if he wasn't excited about who he was coaching.

Having said all that, if there is any coach on the Browns pushing for more "football guys" it's probably Tabor as ST's were largely ignored this season.

Everyone has to do better. It is that simple. I thought our draft class sucked for the most part but I wasnt a huge fan of the 2016 draft class in general. Having Depo and the FO with a huge year of experience under their belt is gonna be invaluable going forward.

Hue Jackson and his staff better take a damn good look in the mirror also. I thought they were OK but made a lot of rookie mental errors in coaching and decision making.

We are in good position to really change this team dramatically via draft free agency and resigning Collins and maybe Pryor. Coaches and FO have had a year to evaluate what we have. Where the rookies are at and what we need going for ward. Lets hpe the year of Pain is at an end and we can actually see something being built this year. I have my doubts on both the FO and coaching staff but we gotta keep things in check, unless we are really ready to dump the 3-4 and make me happy lol.


I am still very intrigued by what this group of nerds have instore for us. Can they take what they learned from 2016 and make dramatic improvements to their approach and to their decision making? we will know soon enough. With 4 top 50 picks and a boat load of cash, it wont take long to find out.