DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Ray Horton out as Defensive Coordinator

OK now back to the Subject of this thread. PLEASE!

Ray Horton out as Defensive Coordinator
Don't care why, how, or who.... he's gone.

Can someone give me the merits and disadvantages of the two men being considered for the Job.

Thank You.

I love these kind of "Are you in Berea?" questions.

For the record I think Hue makes decisions on his staff. Not the FO.

I think Horton tried. Leads did not stand up. His approach is flawed, and talent level was unforgiving. Not sure we got all we could out of the D we fielded. Tackling, pressure, just repeated gouging. I am OK with a fundamental change. Looking for improvement because we have monster upside.

No, just cold and rainy.

Well, I'll take that back. It just started to snow.

No problem letting Horton go. I actually liked Horton when we hired him the first time around and agree that he did not have alot of talent to work with.The problem I had was the second half collapses in many of our games. Going into the half leading or at least looking competitive and getting blown out in the second half.

Clicking on you.
Hopefully he wasn't fired because we went 1-15, making him a scapegoat. JMO, but I don't think Haslam was behind Horton's imminent dismal. But I don't know for sure, obviously.

Every coaching decision should be Hue's, he is the Head Coach. You think R. Kraft tells Bill B. who to hire or fire? Any coaching decision good, bad or indifferent should be Hue's and his only. And he shouldn't shy away from making such decisions. If he feels this is the right direction for the team so be it. Why prolong the agony? Good for Hue and good for Haslam for staying out of it. Move on.

Didn't like Horton the first time he was here... Didn't like the hire this year... Hopefully we'll find a solid dc

Agreed. We had a lot of 2nd half collapses and we gave up too many long drives. I agree we lacked some talent on D but if something isn't working try something different. We did blitz more in the last game and it seemed to help but it was too little too late.

I asked earlier also. Has there been any confirmation one way or another? The Pep story has Rapaport tweets what/who is the source of the Horton situation?

ding.. ding... ding... We have a winner and the most likely reason that Ray is out. Hue was not impressed, Hue made the decision and approached Haslam about making the change.

j/c:

I don't think blaming a coach for the problems caused by lack of talent is the answer.

I don't believe it is a good idea to fire major guys w/in an organization every single year.

I do believe in continuity.

I wonder if Pep wants out because he knows he would be next in line to be fired?

I have talked about the problems w/the plan that Haslam and Sashi put in place. One of the major problems is that someone takes the blame when the losses pile up and that usually leads to firings.

I feel that more firings will come during--or after--next season. It's the same ol' Browns.

Wade Phillips is considered to be one of the best 34 DC in the league. He uses a 1-gap 34 w/ and iirc and uses a lot of Cover 4 behind it. Soft spoken. Players love him.

Gregg Williams is a 43 over/under mix of Cover 4/Cover 2. He's a rah-rah type. Defenses tries to create turnovers...and you know bounty gate and ish...Personal opinion is he's arrogant as hell got passed over for the Redskins HC gig after Gibbs because of it. They used to joke in DC area that the 2nd "g" is for genius.

I would prefer Wade over Gregg.

I think Wade is going to sit out until The Broncos know what they're doing. I bet they also want to retain him.

But they are both very good coordinators.

That being said, I think Gregg is...hmmm...a butthead to keep it PG. Wade Phillips would be a dream.

Still dislike that they fired Horton, though.

Haslam said he doesn't respond to what LaCanfora writes, not Mary Kay Cabot. Additionally, it was Alex Marvez that originally reported this story.

I view Horton as a league average DC. In that the production you get from his unit will match the quality of the talent you give them.

So if was fired just to fire him then I agree not a good look. BUT if they can find an upgrade then it makes sense to me.

Wade seem like unlikely but he would be the best candidate by far in my eyes.

Probably because of negotiations are still ongoing?

What if Hue spoke to Ray about switching to a base 4-3 because he was unhappy with the scheme and Ray did not want to? It is Hue's decision.

Not sure if you directed this at me or not. But, the FO has not done anything to inspire confidence from me, and I certainly have yet to say anything that hints that it has.

Based on his history, Horton really hasn't done anything that inspired any confidence from me, either. I did admit, twice, that he did not have a lot to work with this year. But, all in all, I found his return puzzling and his departure does not rattle me much.

j/c

Everyone seemed to want continuity...... until someone gets fired.

Then they come up with every excuse in the world why continuity is a bad idea.

With no talent to work with, it's very hard to stick up for firing a guy.

With all the dysfunction attached to the Browns, Horton may actually be the big winner in all of this.

I have spoke about our base defense several times. We are in the nickel almost 2/3 of the time. Furthermore, we also ran a 3-4 AND a 4-3 this year. They gave the percentages on KNR. I don't remember the exact percentages, but we don't run nearly as much 3-4 as people seemingly think we do.

I think that the firing of coaches is inevitable when teams lose a huge amount of games. That's probably why Pep is looking elsewhere. He's the logical choice to be fired next on the proverbial totem pole.

Ray Horton sucks and is leaving this isnt a bad thing.

I dont care what talent u have when u cant get 11 men on the field for the first play of the game chances are someone is gonna lose their job. He was the worst choice for this team. he has never shown any ability to turn youth into quality.

Horrible choice just like Pep. glad both going.

I saw the numbers before. Even if we run a 3-4 15-20% of the time. That's 20% of the time we could have better players on the field. And the extra practice time and playing time with who should be next to you, lost

That's a matter of opinion. A lot of teams, including the New England Patriots play multiple defenses. I know NE does it based on who they are playing.

I think that is smarter than being married to one system.

The only thing I have to add is that if your team is so young and inexperienced, you may wish to simplify your system and work into it more as your players gain experience and grow into it.

I'm not sure if Horton was doing that or not, so it's not a reflection on him. Simply an observation to your comment.

Exactly. Once I take the garbage out to the can I never bring it back.

I've said all season that there's going to be some tweaking done to the staff. It's now being tweaked...

I love how regimes fail to learn from other regimes
this franchise loves to Bring in other failed coordinators and employee them only to see the same process repeated over and over
one garbage coordinator replaces another

Pit

Thats part of the issue with Horton as he throws everything at them from day one and hopes they get better as the season wears on instead of being simple and adding more to the plate. I believe this is where some conflict with Hue first began.

Vers

I know neither of us have been a fan of horton (some seem to believe that is the case with you voicing your opinion on his out which is different than your opinion on the possible reasons of the firing)

I just never saw him as a long term solution at DC and really felt he was hired as Hue wanted to up the number of African American coordinators. I thought there were other coordinators that were better suited for this team.

I just really want a philosophy on defense that says Browns Defense. I have always felt we were a true 4-3 base pretending to be a 3-4 team because the Steelers and Ravens were having success with it. Instead of just being true to ourselves.

It was just never a good fit and if there were to be a scapegoat, i wanted it to be Horton.

I really would like to talk about what philosophy does fit what we have. I have to admit, I like an attacking 4-3 Jim Johnson type scheme but we may be best suited for a reactionary bend dont break.

j/c

What if Horton is on his way out mutually? He's waiting for a spot somewhere where their is a vacancy?

The defense, while young, often looked out of place so he needs a more veteran defense to work with.

just a thought

That's basically what I was musing about last night. The longer the rumor of his departure floats without him actually departing I think lends the mutual split theory a little more credibility. I mean, if he was going to be fired typically it would have happened by now?

The only thing I say about Horton is that he is a TRUE 3-4 believer. He might not be flexible to create a defense that is tailored to the talent the Browns have. But let's not act like Horton had alot of talent to work with. But this should have been Horton's call to make.

According to Silver (who is pretty close to Hue) Hue and Horton had issues over adjusting schemes to better fit the talent he had......apparently one of the reasons he liked Williams.

Man can we have one off-season without turnover???

Browns fire DC Ray Horton, hiring Gregg Williams

The Browns have fired defensive coordinator Ray Horton after one season in Cleveland, NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport reported Saturday evening, per sources. To replace Horton, the Browns hired former Rams defensive coordinator Gregg Williams. CBS Sports first reported the news.

Williams was a member of Jeff Fisher's coaching staff for three seasons, but Fisher's December ousting left the defensive coordinator in limbo as the Rams search for a new skipper.

The veteran coordinator found refuge on Fisher's staff in 2014 after serving a one-year suspension for his role in Bountygate in New Orleans. Williams' defenses in St. Louis and Los Angeles benefited from strong defensive line play, but were often susceptible to big gains -- look no further than his reunion with the Saints this season for an example. The Browns will be the fifth team on which Williams has served as defensive coordinator.

Horton's departure is his second from Cleveland in four years and will mark the end of his fourth DC job in five seasons. Under Horton, the youthful no-name Browns defense ranked near the bottom of the league in most significant categories, including points per game and yards per game.

It is not clear yet whether any other members of Horton's staff will be retained.

The Browns have a lot of young pieces on defense around which to build a competitive unit, namely Jamie Collins, Danny Shelton, Emmanuel Ogbah and Carl Nassib. It will be Williams' job to round Cleveland's collection of green studs into a cohesive force for years to come and to keep Hue Jackson off the hot seat.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...-gregg-williams

If we can retain Louie it would be good, he is an excellent db coach but will probably follow Ray out of town.

there was nothing excellent about our defense last season and our tackling was flat out atrocious. it can't get worse.

It can get worse but I dont believe it will. I believe we do indeed have a great teacher of defense. I knew Ray wouldnt last but hoped i was wrong. I believe we have our long term defensive coach. I feel good about where we are at.