DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum If we switch to a base 4-3

Believe me, I want playmakers as well. I do NOT want any of these QBs based on watching their film. But if the right deal is made, it could enhance the rebuild in a positive way...Besides, after evaluating Garrett and Allen, I am more enamored with Allen, but I think Garrett could help us more in this new 4-3..so, I am not losing in either scenario as long as I am convinced the Bears are taking a QB.

EO just to stand as the Devils advocate of trading down I do understand the viewpoint you speak of but I also understand how the FO thinks.

Garrett will be the no1 prospect imo. Even compared to a qb the way our FO operates I don't even see it possible that sashi allows hue to trump such a rare prospect at a position of importance and need.

Now all that said when I summarize the various analytics based outlets available right now I've come to realize that while garrett is highly touted and worth a no1 the combined value of a trade down even for value we would deem weak and taking the 2ND best edge in Barnett while acquiring more assets nearly DOUBLES in value by their standards.

It's essentially that Barnett is deemed as roughly 95% the prospect that garrett is but the projected value of picks in trade return is worth the value of that #1 by itself. So your essentially getting the value of a no1 pick while getting Barnett for free if that makes sense.

More traditional views will not agree and it's fine if you don't believe me because I didn't spend hours putting the exact numbers together. when it comes down to I believe in the eyes of our FO the draft may come down to Barnett+picks being twice as valuable in their eyes.

I'm not saying it's what we will do, that my view is right or that we should but after looking from every angle possible I just want you guys to be educated so maybe you will accept and maybe even support the move before it happens. I really do see it as the most likely scenario and that kind of my thing.

Have been looking around the free agent list. Obvious ones are Trumaine Johnson and TJ MacDonald from the Rams. Any views on Johnson? Would also Micah Hyde be an option a safety? Gilmore out of Buffalo would be nice

Have been looking around the free agent list. Obvious ones are Trumaine Johnson and TJ MacDonald from the Rams. Any views on Johnson? Would also Micah Hyde be an option a safety? Gilmore out of Buffalo would be nice

My offseason wants are:
1a) Resign Pryor and Collins somehow. Tag one if necessary.
1b) Resign Pasztor, Colquitt as a minimum. Paea too; Poyer?
2) Pick up a CB and S in free agency. Possibly a WR too.
3) Knock the draft out of the park, pick up a legit pass rusher (Garrett, Barnett, Thomas, Harris?) to pair with Ogbah, improve the defense and get a QB. Mahomes II looks intriguing as a developmental pick if we are not sold on any of the top QBs? Jimmy G if the price is right? I still like some of what Kessler brought considering he wasn't meant to start, just to put that out there.

I think TJ McDonald just got arrested for drug possession.

Why? Why don't you want ANY QB from this draft? You're saying that not one single QB drafted this year will be worth spit?

We just saw a young man win a National Championship against a really good Bama team. Many of those Bama kids will be pros....
He completes close to 70% of his passes and he completed over 60% in the championship game. The only knocks I've heard on Deshaun Watson are long range accuracy and he's smaller in stature than one would like. He's said to be smart, with enough arm to easily make every throw. He's athletic so he can move. So I am asking in all sincerity, why is he not a prospect? Why is he not worth any consideration?

I believe Versatile Dog wanted Johnson last off-season. He may know more about him.

After a 2011 season in which the then St. Louis Rams struggled with Josh Gordy (80.2 passer rating allowed) and Jordan King (113.1 passer rating allowed) as their starting corners for the second half of the year, they invested two picks in the top three rounds of the 2012 draft at cornerback. Four years down the line, and those two corners have recorded strong enough seasons to now present the Rams with the question of who to retain.

At pick No. 39, the Rams selected former Florida Gator (by way of the University of North Alabama) Janoris Jenkins; 26 picks later, they took Trumaine “Big Sky” Johnson from the University of Montana. Both players saw immediate playing time, with Jenkins starting from Week 1 of their rookie season. It was the breakout 2015 season from both players, however, that presents the Rams with a dilemma: Can they keep both? If not, which one should they prioritize, and who should they let walk in free agency?

The case for Jenkins
As a four-year starter, Jenkins has a depth of knowledge and familiarity with the Rams’ defense that they will not be eager to give up. After a lull in production in 2014, Jenkins got his hands on the ball more in 2015, breaking up 10 passes and snagging three interceptions—the most since he grabbed four in his rookie season, back in 2012. Jenkins also surrendered his lowest passer rating (93.8) over the course of a season since his rookie campaign, having let up a passer rating in excess of 110 in both 2014 (114.3) and 2013 (115.3).

Everything is signaling an upturn for Jenkins, who earned the highest single-season grade of his career, both in coverage (79.8) and in terms of overall grade (80.7) this past season for the Rams. The question for the Rams will be how much does Jenkins’ experience as a four-year starter place a premium on his signature? Jenkins only allowed 100 yards in a game once this season, having done so three times in 2014 and twice each in the first two years of his career. The story of Jenkins’ career has always been a balance of ability against consistent production, and the question for the Rams is whether they believe his 2015 season is simply a contract-year blip, or the start of him trying to piece everything together?

The case for Johnson
In Johnson, the Rams found a small-school gem, but have failed to maximize his full impact. Johnson played only 366 snaps as a rookie, but in that time, did enough to earn a higher season grade than Jenkins—surrendering a passer rating of 72.3, intercepting two passes, and allowing more than 50 yards in coverage only twice in the games he played. That performance earned Johnson an expanded role in 2013, where he again surrendered a passer rating of less than 75.0 for the entire season, breaking up eight passes and intercepting three more.

Johnson then missed the first eight weeks of the 2014 season, but has since surrendered only two touchdowns (to Jenkins’ six) and intercepted 10 passes (to Jenkins’ four). What Jenkins has over Johnson in experience, Johnson has more than matched Jenkins in terms of production—both on a per-snap basis and overall. Johnson has never allowed more than two touchdowns in a season; Jenkins has allowed at least five in each of his four years in the league. On 116 fewer targets over their four years in the league, Johnson has 15 interceptions to Jenkins’ 10. For the duration of his career, Jenkins’ passer rating allowed is only just shy of 100 (99.5); in the same timeframe, Johnson’s passer rating allowed is 67.1. That mark is better than Josh Norman’s (72.1), Stephon Gilmore’s (84.1), and even Casey Hayward’s (70.2), the stars of the 2012 cornerback class.

When Jenkins was sidelined in Week 14 last season, it was Johnson who took center stage, earning the highest single-game grade of his career (+5.2), snagging an interception (a pick-six, no less) and a pass defense on five targets, while also cutting off Calvin Johnson on a double-move late in the fourth quarter, with the Rams protecting a two-score lead. If Los Angeles is looking for a corner to lead their secondary, Johnson’s career to date, and in particular, his performance since Week 9 of the 2014 season, suggest that he is the man to do it.

The case for both
Ultimately, this does not have to come down to an either/or situation for the Los Angeles Rams. Boasting just shy of $60 million in cap space and a list of impending free agents that is neither long nor stocked with marquee players that will force them to break the bank, there is no immediate financial reason for the Rams not to lock up both Jenkins and Johnson. If the Rams see Jenkins’ upward trend in his fourth season as the emergence of the elite corner they hoped he could become, then they can pay the price to pair him with Johnson for the foreseeable future to work in combination with their exceptional defensive line.

However, with the news that Jenkins has turned down a $9 million per year contract—and fired his agent—you have to question just how highly Jenkins values himself, and whether he is worth paying as the elite corner he might become. Both production and performance over the previous four seasons make Johnson the more important re-signing for the Rams’ secondary, and if Los Angeles is to maintain a balance of investment between their defense and their offense (it may be a few years off yet, but Aaron Donald will be seeking a hefty contract within the next two years), then cutting ties with Jenkins may be a move that they have to make on financial grounds, particularly in terms of value for money, to maintain the status quo. Jenkins’ performances make him a corner worth retaining, but not at any cost, and with negotiations with Jenkins stalled due to the NFL’s rules on agent hiring, the Rams should waste no time in turning their attention to re-signing Johnson as their No. 1 priority in the defensive backfield.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-janoris-jenkins-or-trumaine-johnson/

The defense ranked 30th in points allowed and 31st in yards allowed, compared to the offense, which ranked 31st in points and 30th in yards.

See the difference? But we liked the offense well enough.

Defense creates offense. Build the D.

You can argue that offense takes pressure off the D
Increased time of possession keeps the D off the field.
Defense can't give up points if we have possession.
Get a lead and make the opponents offense one dimensional

See, I agree with you in principal. Except in our case, when the cupboard is bear, I say go BPA no matter which side of the ball a player is on.

We need impact players on both sides of the ball, so to me it's more about BPA rather than whether a player is on O or D.

In this draft, it would appear that we can load up on D early and get BPA depending on how the draft falls. So it may very well end up that your idea of building the D first falls in line with BPA. That would be my preference just like you.

I just believe when a team who is very poor talent wise, which we are, starts to focus on one side of the ball or the other it can cost them a great deal by not looking at talent strictly based on BPA.

And i disagree. I don't think jimmy g is better than Watson. Hell, I rather go with Trubisky over him as well.

And we also don't have to use th first overall to draft those QB's.

But the reality is Hue thinks somebody is an Elite Franchise QB prospect. He said so during the season. Whoever that guy is (for me there are only two options - Trubisky or Watson) we will be taking QB at the overall #1 pick.

If you're a glass-half-full type, Sunday is a win-win situation for the Browns -- no matter what happens in their season finale.
If they beat the Steelers, yay! They'll end 2016 with a two-game winning streak (and a 2-14 record). If they lose to the Steelers, the Browns will wrap up the No. 1 pick in the 2017 NFL Draft, where they would almost certainly target their next franchise quarterback.

But for first-year coach Hue Jackson, who has endured enough losing over the last four months for it to be classified as cruel and unusual, the Browns aren't concerned about where they'll be picking in the draft. Their immediate concern is winning football games, which happened last week for the first time in more than a year when they outlasted the Chargers.

"Our players work too hard in the locker room and they put it on the line," Jackson said, via Cleveland.com's Mary Kay Cabot. "We have to put it on the line. That's what sports is all about. I said before, whether it's the first pick, second pick, or third pick, they're all going to be good players there. We'll get good players on this team. I assure everybody that as we move forward, but what I think is most important is finishing the season the right way for these guys."


Full article here: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/hue-ja...-in-2017-draft/