|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,621
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,621 |
I'm by no means an expert on D schemes. But I'll give you my take on what went down in a nut shell.
Our talent on D is by far better fitted for the 4-3 D. Our DC has always been a 3-4 guy.
So a choice had to be made. Change a lot of D personnel to fit the 3-4, or change to a DC who is a 4-3 guy.
I believe they felt it was a much more logical move to change the DC than it was to shuffle through a lot of the D roster. Sometimes you change the personnel to fit the coach and sometimes you change the coach to match the personnel.
Now I don't know how the change will work out. But after giving it much thought I just felt this was a very simple explanation.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,621
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,621 |
Well, for one thing these "rookies" will have a year of experience not to mention we still have FA to go through. It's not like things don't change and always stay the same. While that's true, they will have to learn an entire new system so a lot of the things they learned during their rookie year will be of no value in their second year. I mean had they been taught basic tacking skills they could still use that, but we both know that's not the case. lol
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,734
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,734 |
j/c: The Cleveland Browns have announced that the following coaches have been relieved of their duties: Louie Cioffi (defensive backs) Johnny Holland (inside linebackers) Hal Hunter (offensive line) Cannon Matthews (assistant defensive backs) Ryan Slowik (outside linebackers) http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...53-4d477a245e6dI'd expect to hear of Williams' people being hired soon if they want to be at the Senior Bowl. I hope they don't rush those hires.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,336
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,336 |
Hal Hunter (offensive line) Interesting, he's not even on the defense
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263 |
j/c: The Cleveland Browns have announced that the following coaches have been relieved of their duties: Louie Cioffi (defensive backs) Johnny Holland (inside linebackers) Hal Hunter (offensive line)Cannon Matthews (assistant defensive backs) Ryan Slowik (outside linebackers) http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...53-4d477a245e6dI'd expect to hear of Williams' people being hired soon if they want to be at the Senior Bowl. I hope they don't rush those hires. I guess no one was impressed by our OL coach? It doesn't really matter who our OL coach is does it? Our QB keeps getting killed
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,031
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,031 |
I guess no one was impressed by our OL coach? It doesn't really matter who our OL coach is does it? Our QB keeps getting killed
Leading the NFL in sacks given up, QB hits and injured QBs...not very impressive.
Add to that, the offense ranked 31st in points scored and 30th in yards per game.
Hue's job is/may be on the line in a year or two and if he sees an area of his coaching staff that could be improved, do it now, not 2 or 3 years from now, when the HC is fired along with all the assistant coaches.
DO IT NOW and don't look back because the performance of the 2016 Oline says it all.
Last edited by mac; 01/10/17 04:26 PM.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805 |
I'm by no means an expert on D schemes. But I'll give you my take on what went down in a nut shell.
Our talent on D is by far better fitted for the 4-3 D. Our DC has always been a 3-4 guy.
So a choice had to be made. Change a lot of D personnel to fit the 3-4, or change to a DC who is a 4-3 guy.
I believe they felt it was a much more logical move to change the DC than it was to shuffle through a lot of the D roster. Sometimes you change the personnel to fit the coach and sometimes you change the coach to match the personnel.
Now I don't know how the change will work out. But after giving it much thought I just felt this was a very simple explanation. Spot on. You should post more often. Coordinator positions come and go every year. Most don't miss a beat. It's the cleaning the house that's kills teams. VERS.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Never saw that but in all honesty, why didn't you just show that instead of telling people to do research. Geez man.
Also, who told him to stop? that's not covered. Do you know that?
I didn't tell people to research. I simply said that Pluto should have researched. You were the one who questioned me.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
I've been predicting for months that coaches would lose their jobs. I was said to be crazy because Jimmy got it this time. I actually thought the firings would start next year, although I correctly predicted that Horton would be the first to go.
So, several coaches have lost their jobs and one caught the first flight out of town. And the very same people who said I was full of crap about Farmer are the very same people who are saying I am full of crap again.
You know, firing coaches has worked so well for us in the past. LOL.....and y'all act like I am wrong for wanting continuity.
Sick of the constant spin by guys who are always wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
I'm curious, are you blaming Haslam or Hue for this?
you had a good run Hank.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,387
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,387 |
Hue will be out the door after next year too and it will be because of this awful FO. The whole organization is always setup for complete failure. But our fans never learn. Just like the backup QB is always the best QB, the new coach in the door is the best coach we've ever had.
Congratulations to our 2016 NBA Champion CLEVELAND CAVALIERS!!! Greatest comeback in sports history... Hail to the King!
The great QB guru and the Moneyball group: 1-15
Record of Criminal Haslam owned Browns: 20-60 (0.250)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
I am not assigning blame to any one individual. I don't see what purpose that serves. Do you?
I want the Browns to win. Period. I hate dumb ass moves. I hate lack of stability. Did anyone other than me see the graphic during the Steelers game about how many coaches the Steelers have had since the 19-freaking-70s and how many we have had since 1999. When is the organization and the fans going to get that constant change is not a good thing?
Joe Thomas has said the same damn thing. Do people think he is "stupid" too?
Jesus, everyone makes mistakes, but isn't it about time to learn from the mistakes?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
I'm by no means an expert on D schemes. But I'll give you my take on what went down in a nut shell.
Our talent on D is by far better fitted for the 4-3 D. Our DC has always been a 3-4 guy.
So a choice had to be made. Change a lot of D personnel to fit the 3-4, or change to a DC who is a 4-3 guy.
I believe they felt it was a much more logical move to change the DC than it was to shuffle through a lot of the D roster. Sometimes you change the personnel to fit the coach and sometimes you change the coach to match the personnel.
Now I don't know how the change will work out. But after giving it much thought I just felt this was a very simple explanation. Or, Horton is a bottom 3rd DC at best while Williams is a defense builder who fields aggressive defenses which are perennially in the top 15, who is also a strong motivator with a sharp defensive mind and the decision was a no-brainier. If he had been available last year, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,277
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,277 |
Normally I agree with most of your takes. This isn't one of the most. I think there were clear problems with this D, and it was talent. I just think some of the blame is with the talent of the coaches.
I don't feel sorry for Ray other than he is in way over his head. I do feel bad for some of the assistants. They probably don't deserve to be let go, but that is the reality of the NFL. Williams is probably going to bering over a boatload of his guys. You know how that works.
Hunter....well, Hue was very involved with the O. He obviously felt we needed to make a change.
I guess I could look it up. Maybe someone already has? Who was the Rams O-line coach? He would be one obvious candidate to seek the position of O-line coach in Brownstown..
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,437
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,437 |
Yes, it makes sense. I get what you are saying.
However, I just think that it would be hard to turn over something so important to a guy you know isn't as good as you at that particular function.
I am not saying I'm right, bro. Just my opinion. I get what you are saying, however even though I know I am better at the job below me over anyone else I could ever immediately place there, I won't do it because I need to develop and find my successor. His stance is pride more than anything else. IMO if he wants to be a successful coach and do the things he says with the Browns, he needs to give up the play calling and develop his coaches and players. Just my opinion. You are successful when you can teach and lead as opposed to doing it yourself.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,277
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,277 |
To answer my own question....Paul T. Boudreau. A good name in Cleveland sports. According to the bio, which might be a year or two dated, he has more experience as a asst. coach than any in the league....29 years. All as a O-line coach.
Not sure what that means. A guy with no upward mobility or a guy who understands is place in things? Either way, to have the job for 29 years probably means he is pretty darn good.
Asst. coach at the NFL level is a high competition job. Lot's of coaches would have loved to bump him out of a job.
I don't see any obvious connection with Hue, but the NFL is a networking league.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
I hate it too. I wish Hue got the guy he wanted in the first place, so we didn't have to do this nonsense.
However, and this is a big however, I don't think Hue's job is in trouble. Not even a little. It seems to me, through the comments he is making, he learned some stuff about his coaches and decided to go in a different direction because they were not on the same wave length.
That's how you build continuity. You get the same message from FO and HC all the way down to the janitor. It seemed, to me, that maybe Horton did not have the same vision and perhaps butted heads with Hue.
I won't say it's a good move. I will say I regret the fact he hired Horton in the first place. And I think it's everyone's fault for settling. However, I admire his willingness to admit a mistake and aggressively go to fix it.
I don't think it's a shock that all the coaches fired were guys who were last to be hired. They seemed like settling. Maybe Hue has more of his guys lined up? They cannot do this again, next year, though. This was Hue's mulligan. Williams and whomever he chooses to replace Pep/Hunter MUST be the right guys.
you had a good run Hank.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,031
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,031 |
vers...if you are a HC of a team that went 1-15, do you just assume the coaching staff you picked last will be better next year?
Try being realistic..if the Defensive Coordinator changes, it is to be expected that he may prefer coaches he is familiar with, rather than taking on the defensive coaches that Ray Horton hired.
Pep Hamilton was offered a job with a HC he had past experience working with..not much Hue can do about that.
The offensive line coach, Hal Hunter, did not have a good year and replacing him with someone better should not be hard to do.
Hue knows it is his job on the line if the team does not improve.
If you were in Hue's position, would you try to force the new DC to keep the defensive coaches hired by Horton?
If Pep Hamilton wanted to take a coaching job in college, would you tell him that he had to stay with the Browns?
The only coaching changes that I can credit to Hue are the DC and the Oline coach.
If a HC is going to make changes, now is the time to do it, after one season. Also, much of the best coaching talent is working at this time, coaching their team in the playoffs.
Maybe Hue and Williams can hire some of the best coaches, when they become available.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
I think you are a good poster. I hope you didn't think my irritation w/the situation was directed at you. It might have come across that way, but I promise you that I was not upset w/you.
I'm just tired of the same old crap w/the Browns. And then I come on here and many of the same posters who have bashed me in the past about guys like Holmgren and Farmer are the same guys bashing me again.
Disagreements are cool. Acting like I am clueless is not. Especially given the history of how these things have turned out.
Regarding your comments about Hue. He has a lot of power now. However, unless this FO/ownership group brings in a lot more talent, Hue won't last either.
Losing an inordinate amount of games is a coach killer. People can spin all they want, but the incredible amount of losses this year was a factor in trying something new.
Here is my idea at trying something new:
Develop a good plan, hire the right people, and then have the balls to stick w/them through thick and thin. You know..........like the Steelers do.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,277
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,277 |
Hue seems to understand that you need a coach who can adapt.
He is adapting to his coaching staff. He he sees he needs to make a change. He also knows his new hire needs to bring in some of the people he needs to make it work. Ray got to bring in his guys.
Continuity is good if it works. It sucks, if it sucks.
As I said back in the days of Timid: The only thing worse than a poor decision, is sticking with a poor decision.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
I think you are a good poster. I hope you didn't think my irritation w/the situation was directed at you. It might have come across that way, but I promise you that I was not upset w/you.
I'm just tired of the same old crap w/the Browns. And then I come on here and many of the same posters who have bashed me in the past about guys like Holmgren and Farmer are the same guys bashing me again.
Disagreements are cool. Acting like I am clueless is not. Especially given the history of how these things have turned out.
Regarding your comments about Hue. He has a lot of power now. However, unless this FO/ownership group brings in a lot more talent, Hue won't last either.
Losing an inordinate amount of games is a coach killer. People can spin all they want, but the incredible amount of losses this year was a factor in trying something new.
Here is my idea at trying something new:
Develop a good plan, hire the right people, and then have the balls to stick w/them through thick and thin. You know..........like the Steelers do. No problems with you, Vers. I especially agree with the bold text. As far as I'm concerned, this is it for Hue. You cannot make any major coordinator changes from here on out. This is it for him, so he better hire the right people. I still believe in Hue. The players love him, they have a chance to bring in an inordinate amount of YOUNG talent for him to "program" so to speak. He's a bright offensive mind and he's been through a ton, so nothing will ever crack him and his passion, IMO. Just...let's make this thing last from here on out. As far as I'm concerned, Hue gets his mulligan. If he does this again next year, we might have to ask tougher questions about Hue that I do not want to have.
you had a good run Hank.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
mac, how much better did the offense do than the defense? I posted the stats, but you only seemed to remember half of them.
I am doing this from memory, but I believe the:
-defense was 30th in points allowed and 31st in yards allowed.
--offense was 31st in points allowed and 30th in yards allowed.
Personally, I think points are more important than yards, but either way..............where is the big difference?
If we are "evaluating everything and everyone," shouldn't Hue fire his own damn self?
And going beyond that.................who the hell provided the talent for all the coaches? This team has went from 7 wins to 3 wins to 1 win. The FO let several very good players walk. They made two trades in the first round and ended up w/the disappointing Corey Coleman. They cut veteran players and plugged in nobodies. They cut Gabriel and kept all the WRs they drafted, including one who had something like 1-3 catches and got suspended for PEDs.
Why the HELL are they not being held accountable?!?!
Get out of my face w/the BS rhetoric.
And let me clarify this before one of The Others misquotes me AGAIN. I am not in favor of firing Hue. I am not in favor of firing anyone in the FO.
I believe that they should all receive adequate time to prove themselves.
I also believe the same should have been true for Horton and the assistants who were unfairly canned.
I ain't backing down on this one.
Constant upheaval has never worked for the Browns. And it ain't gonna work now. No matter how you guys spin it, the end results will not change.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,277
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,277 |
I think you are a good poster. I hope you didn't think my irritation w/the situation was directed at you. It might have come across that way, but I promise you that I was not upset w/you.
I'm just tired of the same old crap w/the Browns. And then I come on here and many of the same posters who have bashed me in the past about guys like Holmgren and Farmer are the same guys bashing me again.
Disagreements are cool. Acting like I am clueless is not. Especially given the history of how these things have turned out.
Regarding your comments about Hue. He has a lot of power now. However, unless this FO/ownership group brings in a lot more talent, Hue won't last either.
Losing an inordinate amount of games is a coach killer. People can spin all they want, but the incredible amount of losses this year was a factor in trying something new.
Here is my idea at trying something new:
Develop a good plan, hire the right people, and then have the balls to stick w/them through thick and thin. You know..........like the Steelers do. No problems with you, Vers. I especially agree with the bold text. As far as I'm concerned, this is it for Hue. You cannot make any major coordinator changes from here on out. This is it for him, so he better hire the right people. I still believe in Hue. The players love him, they have a chance to bring in an inordinate amount of YOUNG talent for him to "program" so to speak. He's a bright offensive mind and he's been through a ton, so nothing will ever crack him and his passion, IMO. Just...let's make this thing last from here on out. As far as I'm concerned, Hue gets his mulligan. If he does this again next year, we might have to ask tougher questions about Hue that I do not want to have. I agree. That said, the same holds for the FO. Injury aside, they better bring in a top player with the first pick. Whoever they go with, I am on board, but whoever they go with, we don't need anymore Phil Taylors or Can I do it Ervings at the top of the draft. If I was Jimmy, I would make that very clear. Bring in good players or out the door you go. If the FO can pressure the coach, the owner can pressure the FO. I'd let them know they are all sleeping in the same bed. I agree with Vers that you can't just blame the coach unless he just makes really stiupid decisions. They are a team of players. They are all on record of supporting each other. That is how it would stand with me at this point. YOU ALL better hope it works. You all are getting paid real money and I am the one with a BILLION DOLLARS invested.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 9,478
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 9,478 |
Anybody think the plan was to transition to the 4-3 before last Draft? With Horton brought in to kind of be the "multiple" bridge. Ogbah and Nassib would make a lot more sense to me if that was the case. Hue is most familiar with the 4-3. Just a random thought I had while trying to fit the pieces together. I don't think the plan was to can Horton so soon, but I think transitioning to the 4-3 may have been.
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fkjZc8B/Bull-Dawg-Sig-smaller.jpg) You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,277
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,277 |
Anybody think the plan was to transition to the 4-3 before last Draft? With Horton brought in to kind of be the "multiple" bridge. Ogbah and Nassib would make a lot more sense to me if that was the case. Hue is most familiar with the 4-3. Just a random thought I had while trying to fit the pieces together. I don't think the plan was to can Horton so soon, but I think transitioning to the 4-3 may have been. I think very possible. I touched on that earlier.....Hue went with the best coach he had available at the time, even if not a good fit.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
I think that is more spin.
At least I hope it is. Because if it isn't, they are the dumbest mother........ on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,336
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,336 |
I have a hard time believing that they would hire a guy with the intention of letting him go.
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
-Ballpeen
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,277
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,277 |
Call me the "No Spin Zone" my friend. We both speak our minds. I just don't do it around here as often as I did some years back.
It is what it is. I won't debate the wisdom, because I don't really disagree. I am simply saying Hue went with Ray because he had experience and Hue wanted to concentrate on O.
Live and learn. A H/C needs to be able to concentrate on both side of the ball.
Now we will find out if he can.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
I have a hard time believing that they would hire a guy with the intention of letting him go. LOL.................it is funny, man. The spin gets better all the time. Think about it............the Browns say........let's hire this guy so we can fire him.  Come on, y'all. That's funny stuff. Then again............hmmmmmmmm..........
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386 |
I've been predicting for months that coaches would lose their jobs. I was said to be crazy because Jimmy got it this time. I actually thought the firings would start next year, although I correctly predicted that Horton would be the first to go.
So, several coaches have lost their jobs and one caught the first flight out of town. And the very same people who said I was full of crap about Farmer are the very same people who are saying I am full of crap again.
You know, firing coaches has worked so well for us in the past. LOL.....and y'all act like I am wrong for wanting continuity.
Sick of the constant spin by guys who are always wrong.
To be fair. I thought you were full of crap well before I knew what your feelings were about Farmer or anybody else. You can continue to spin that you are the only one preaching continuity while you continue demanding that we tweak the front office now.
Last edited by DeputyDawg; 01/10/17 08:44 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 9,478
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 9,478 |
I don't think the plan was for Horton to get the boot, but I think since he runs a "multiple" D Hue thought he could transition to the 4-3 somewhat in stages. I'm not sure Horton was as adaptable as Hue thought he was though.
I'm not making excuses. Just trying to explain the move(s) in a way that makes some sort of sense.
I fit pieces together. It's how my mind works. Sometimes it leads to ideas that could sound like "conspiracy" theories. I don't take them too seriously.
I'm really not trying to spin it. Just trying to make the pieces fit.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Okay............I'll take your word for it. Just a bit skeptical after some of last year's conversations.
But, no problem w/you disagreeing.
I still maintain that changing personnel in the coaching staff given the lack of talent is a mistake. I am okay w/people disagreeing w/that take, but making up stories about minority hires and yelling matches does not set well w/me.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,421
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,421 |
I'm really not trying to spin it. Just trying to make the pieces fit. Outside of this board... I knew many people who did not like the Horton re hire... Once again his D sucked this season...His past shows he is not that good of a DC. Here's the fit...Horton you suck..Horton your fired...Perfect fit.. This was a good move by Hue... Hell people wanted Pets head for not firing O'neil. Hue improved the D with the Hiring of Williams
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Really? How did Horton's D in Arizona perform?
You guys make so much crap up.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 9,478
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 9,478 |
You said he never had a good defense. His defense was good in Arizona because he had talent. That is something he did not have here.
And ..........."take your meds..."
What the hell does that mean?
How good was his defense in Arizona? I started doing some digging to try to answer that for myself. Arizona was 17th in points against his two years as DC. They were 5th and 7th Bowles 2 years following. I'm not saying he wasn't good, but those weren't the numbers I expected. Arizona jumping 10 spots after he left makes me question if he's a good coordinator or a good enough coordinator. I might have to dig in more about defensive rankings following a change in DC. Is continuity as important as we think? I'd definitely like to have continuity. I'd also like to have a coach that gets the most out of his players rather than base competence. I'm not sure if Horton or Williams is that guy. Here's hoping Williams is, and we see a jump in our points against rankings. Time will tell. I'm in wait and see mode. What else can I do?
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Cleveland Browns: Hue Jackson Wants Ray Horton As DCby Ryan Rosko12 months agoFollow @SkoSports Cleveland Browns head coach Hue Jackson wants to hire Tennessee Titans defensive coordinator Ray Horton, but there is a catch. Hue Jackson has started the process in filling out his coaching staff. His top choice as defensive coordinator is Ray Horton, but the Titans may not allow him to join the Cleveland Browns. Even though Horton is gaining interest from Jackson and the Cleveland Browns, it is up to the Titans if he is allowed to interview and leave. Since Horton is an [censored] situation. The Titans do not have a head coach at the moment and it is unknown if any of the likely front-runners for the job would keep Horton. Horton is a very good defensive coordinator, but with so much uncertainty, why not let Horton leave? Horton’s first job as a defensive coordinator was with the Pittsburgh Steelers from 2007-2010 after multiple years as a defensive backs and secondary coach, and 10 years as a player. Following his time in Pittsburgh, Horton was defensive coordinator for the Arizona Cardinals in 2011-12, Cleveland Browns in 2013, and was Tennessee’s the last two seasons. While with the Browns, Horton coached the ninth ranked total defense, eighth ranked passing defense, and 18th ranked rush defense. Head coaching vacancies are being filled more rapidly recently, so the Titans should decide on their next head coach very soon. If not, Tennessee may not get the coach they prefer. Jackson should not have to wait too long to know if Horton will be able to coach again in Cleveland. Should Horton join Jackson’s coaching staff, the Cleveland Browns instantly has a well established, and successful coordinator who can turn around the defense. Former defensive coordinator Jim O’Neil coached a defense that could not do anything right in 2015. Simply moving on from O’Neil was a step in the right direction and if the Titans allow Horton to leave, the Cleveland Browns would end up hitting a home run. The players on defense also will affect the amount of success, but without a structured system, led by a good coach, achievements cannot be reached. Luckily, that is not going to be the case. NEXT: Five Browns Who Benefit From The Hue Jackson Hiring If Horton cannot leave, Jackson will be able to bring in someone else who is also established and has been successful. https://factoryofsadness.co/2016/01/14/cleveland-browns-hue-jackson-wants-ray-horton-as-dc/
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 01/10/17 10:03 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Maybe this will help, but I doubt it. LOL 'Furious' Ray Horton demands his release from Cardinals Mike Garafolo, USA TODAY Sports Published 3:08 p.m. ET Jan. 18, 2013 From the moment the Arizona Cardinals chose Bruce Arians over Ray Horton as their new head coach, it was inevitable Horton would be leaving the organization. It took less than a day for that to happen. Horton, the defensive coordinator, has been released from his contract and is now a free agent, according to a person informed of the team's decision. The person, who spoke to USA TODAY Sports on condition of anonymity because the Cards aren't confirming the firing, said Horton was furious about losing out to Arians. Arizona's defense ranked 12th in the league in yards allowed this past season, which is impressive because the offense didn't give Horton's players enough chances to rest. The person informed of Horton's firing said Arians wants to bring in Philadelphia Eagles defensive coordinator Todd Bowles to replace Horton, who was on the Steelers' staff with Arians from 2004-10. Bowles played for Arians in college at Temple and was on the Cleveland Browns' staff with him from 2001-03. A person briefed on Bowles' status with the Eagles said he has been informed he will be let go by new head coach Chip Kelly. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to speak for Bowles. Horton, meanwhile, was hired Friday as defensive coordinator in Cleveland. The Browns, who interviewed him as a head-coach candidate, were hopeful Horton would join Rob Chudzinski's staff. "We are truly excited that we were able to get someone of Ray's caliber as our defensive coordinator," Chudzinski said, according to The Associated Press. "He possesses a great deal of experience as a player, position coach and coordinator in the NFL and has been part of some of the top defenses in the league throughout his career. He is an extremely talented coach and I know that he will work very well with the young nucleus of players we have on defense." http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl...dinals/1846055/Y'all............here is the craziest part of this. When Horton was hired, I said it was not a good hire. I had many posters tell me how much of an upgrade he was over O'Neil and how our defense was ranked 9th when he was here. I tried to bring up the talent issue, but I was just a negative person and clueless. I also cautioned people about how much of a difference Hue would make. He was called a QB Whisperer and the best play caller in the NFL. He was given credit for Dalton's success, the Bengal's prolific offense, and being a QB Whisperer. I said that talent had a lot to do w/that perception and that Grudin was there before Hue. I was declared a hater and negative. LOL Now, we got posters calling Hue a "punk" and saying he should hire someone to call plays and oversee the QBs. My oh my! Look y'all..................you can fool some people some of the time, but you can never fool Vers. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,135
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,135 |
You can make all the excuses for Horten that you want but ANY coach worth a DARN should be able to teach his players to tackle. It was a problem last time and it was even worse this time. He teaches showboat big hitting instead of fundamental get it done tackling and it showed.
Does anyone think we can do worse at defense than last year?
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
You can make all the excuses for Horten that you want but ANY coach worth a DARN should be able to teach his players to tackle. cfrs? Dep? Memphis? Etc.................any of you wanna help him out on this one? Or, you just going to let it go because it makes Horton look bad?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,135
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,135 |
Speak your mind vers. You saying that you're happy with quality of tackling we had this past season?
I sure didn't expect things to be perfect but the constant missed tackles perturbed me quite a bit.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Ray Horton out as Defensive
Coordinator
|
|
