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you forgot his 8 rushes for 48 yards and 1 TD in his first start.

yea, he played well.

he did what BB asked for him to do.


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Vers fwiw I watched the games with Brissett(he was my qb last year) and the offense was VERY simplified. Feel free to take that in itself as an indictment of him, can't argue that. Just trust me(or dont) in that he looked pretty good in what little they let him do. Bills always been one to try to keep his backups confidence up. He simplified somewhat with Jimmy as well though not to the same degree.

Last edited by predator16; 01/16/17 10:09 PM.
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I don't think BB likes Brissett better than Garoppolo, but I think he likes him nonetheless, because (a) he drafted him and (b) he has prototype size (6-4, 235), mobility, and skills.

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So Swish and Predator............a previous poster makes a claim that Jimmy G didn't really play that well and that Brissett played just as well.............and then I provide evidence to disprove that.......and you question me and not the other poster's take?

This is the kinda stuff that aggravates me. Houston turned the ball over 3 times in that game, including a couple on special teams deep in their own territory. Blount went off. But yeah...........it was about Brissett.

Meanwhile, Jimmy G was slinging it all over and people have provided video evidence of that and we wanna say these two guys performed almost equally?

Here is what I think............I believe that some people made up their minds not to like trading for Jimmy G BEFORE considering a lot of the evidence that has been provided and they are now ignoring that evidence and making things up to make him look bad.

I prefer honest debate.

For instance, while I have listed a ton of Jimmy G's positives, I have also noted his negatives and my concerns. And I sure as hell am not making things.

No way in the world did Brissett play as well as Jimmy G did in their brief stints.

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Originally Posted By: Vambo
Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Quote:
IMO if BB is willing to trade Jimmy G. with all the reasons given then he probably is not as good as some might think


I wonder how many times people are going to completely ignore that the Pats will almost certainly lose Jimmy G to free agency next year?

How do people not get that getting a good return on their investment makes sense for NE?


I do NOT know if NE will trade Jimmy G. In my opinion, it makes sense to trade him and get nice compensation for him rather than losing him to FA and getting less in return. I am not sure how that is even debatable.

It has NOTHING to do w/NE thinking he isn't that good. Please stop spinning that argument.

It ranks right there w/the injury prone thang and the he stinks because he is from NE thang.



Bingo! Listen up, people...


What if Jimmy G won't re-sign with the Browns after a trade?


Franchise tag.

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Yeah as really Jimmy G will not move out of Brady's shadow. Unless Brady does retire this year if he wins the SB!?


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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: Vambo
Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Quote:
IMO if BB is willing to trade Jimmy G. with all the reasons given then he probably is not as good as some might think


I wonder how many times people are going to completely ignore that the Pats will almost certainly lose Jimmy G to free agency next year?

How do people not get that getting a good return on their investment makes sense for NE?


I do NOT know if NE will trade Jimmy G. In my opinion, it makes sense to trade him and get nice compensation for him rather than losing him to FA and getting less in return. I am not sure how that is even debatable.

It has NOTHING to do w/NE thinking he isn't that good. Please stop spinning that argument.

It ranks right there w/the injury prone thang and the he stinks because he is from NE thang.



Bingo! Listen up, people...


What if Jimmy G won't re-sign with the Browns after a trade?


Franchise tag.


Force him to stay, will that get his best play?

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Originally Posted By: JPPT1974
Yeah as really Jimmy G will not move out of Brady's shadow. Unless Brady does retire this year if he wins the SB!?


Brady said he wants to play until he is 45. I understand that a lot of people say "big deal." However, I do not think they are educated enough about Tom Brady's workout and diet program. Brady has said he feels better now than he did a few years ago.

Here is an article about Brady's program for those of you who are interested in educating yourselves. The rest of you can ignore it and keep repeating the same crap about NE not wanting Jimmy G even though Brady is old.

Quote:
At 37 years old, Tom Brady is arguably the best quarterback in the NFL. Some of you may balk at this statement, but facts are facts—the guy can flat out play.

Much of Brady's success can be attributed to his health. For most of his career, he has stayed relatively injury-free, and he's actually shown improved speed and quickness compared his early years, when he was abysmally slow.

How is this possible? Besides his insanely focused nutrition regimen, Brady credits his work with Alex Guerrero.

Guerrero is not a traditional strength and conditioning coach. According to the Boston Globe, he is a trained masseuse who was schooled in Chinese medicine. Brady considers him his "body coach." When Guerrero was asked by the The New York Times if his methodologies are contrary to traditional strength and conditioning methods, he responded, "most of the time."

Brady and Guerrero co-own TB12 Sports Therapy Center. According to their website and several interviews, the training methodology is centered on improving muscle pliability.

RELATED: Why Tom Brady's Intense Diet Might Not be That Crazy

What is Muscle Pliability?
"Pliable muscles are softer, longer and more resilient: they help insulate the body against injury and accelerate post-injury recovery," explains TB12's website.

Brady told the Times, "If there's so much pressure, just constant tugging on your tendons and ligaments, you're going to get hurt. Like with a kid, when they fall, they don't get hurt. Their muscles are soft. When you get older, you lose that."

As a strength and conditioning coach, I was curious about this terminology. Over the years, I've talked with hundreds of experts, and I'd never heard the phrase "muscle pliability" mentioned by any of them. It's not taught in the textbooks, and an internet search turned up only a few results, most of them related to Brady.

To get to the bottom of this concept, I consulted Dr. John Rusin and Dr. Joel Seedman, two of the best in the business when it comes to strength training and exercise physiology.

Both experts agreed that muscle pliability is an ambiguous term and could mean many different things. They also agreed that it's likely an umbrella term for several qualities, including flexibility, mobility, neural tone and length-tension relationship.

Flexibility
Flexibility refers to a muscle's ability to lengthen. A more flexible muscle is able to lengthen further than a tight muscle. That said, there's an optimal level of flexibility. It wouldn't be ideal if Brady had the flexibility of a gymnast since he needs stability to withstand tackles and to move explosively.

Mobility
Mobility is often confused with flexibility, but it refers to functional movement. A mobile athlete can move his or her joints in the required ranges of motion for their sport and training. Improving mobility requires a focus on flexibility, muscle activation, core strength and eliminating strength imbalances.

Neural Tone
We aren't talking about muscle tone in the aesthetic sense, but rather the activity of a muscle group. If there's high neural tone, then there's more tension in a muscle and it becomes shorter. Reducing neural tone allows a muscle to relax.

"Decreasing neural tone of tissues should carry over to functional activities, increase usable ranges of motion, open up active ranges of motion and allow an athlete to not get bound down with chronic aches and pains," explains Rusin.

Length-Tension Relationship
Your muscles have an optimal length, and failing to train to achieve this length prevents them from producing strength in the optimal range of motion for your skills.

"There's an optimal length that a muscle needs to be firing at, and you can make the muscle too long or too short," says Seedman. "If you have too much shortening of the muscle, it won't produce enough force. If it's too lengthened, you will lose force."

This is improved through eccentric training, where you control the lowering portion of a rep for several seconds. Many strength programs fail to account for this portion of the rep, resulting in overly short muscles that can only produce strength in limited ranges of motion.

Individually, these are all important aspects of a traditional strength and conditioning program and should always be factored in. It appears that Brady and Guerrero have lumped them together into one term—pliability. Maybe it's just how Guerrero does things, or maybe they created a training philosophy and needed a catch-all marketing phrase.

Is Training Muscle Pliability a Viable Training Method?
We couldn't find a single study on the performance or health benefits of muscle pliability. However, each of the above inferred qualities of muscle pliability is valid, and improving them should enhance sports performance and health.

Improving flexibility and mobility are no-brainers. It would be irresponsible not to focus on these essential qualities in your training. Your muscles and joints should be able to move through the range of motions required for your sport. If they cannot, you run the risk of limiting your ability to perform basic sports skills, which can lead to technique issues, impaired performance and possibly an injury.

Brady seems go to extra lengths to improve these qualities, but we suspect he's not far from the mainstream.

Where Brady seems to go against the grain is how he approaches strength training. He doesn't lift heavy weight out of fear of creating short and overactive muscles. From a traditionalist's standpoint, this philosophy might cause a brief fit of rage.

"Putting your body through a response where it has to get stronger—there's nothing bad about that," says Rusin.

However, Brady might have had a poor experience with a strength and conditioning program that led him to embrace Guerrero's unique philosophy.

"I understand where he's coming from, because the type of strength training that's performed in a lot of strength and conditioning settings causes the muscles to get overly tight," says Seedman. "Some pro guys come to me and show me their form and it's pretty bad. That would definitely cause a muscle to get tight, get spastic and lose its mobility, flexibility, pliability qualities—whatever you want to call it."

"Unfortunately, so few people do proper training that they don't have a grasp of what proper training actually does for the muscle," Seedman adds.

So what do Brady's workouts look like? They are a bit of a mystery. Besides a brief description of a resistance band routine he did on vacation and a photo of him doing a Lunge with a sandbag on his back, his training methods are a secret. However, a large component of Brady's muscle pliability training seems to include Guerrero's unique massage techniques. After an apparent serious ankle injury suffered in practice, Brady was immediately tended to by Guerrero and he didn't miss a game.

However, Brady is a pretty big guy at 225 pounds. He can't just perform mobility drills and get massages and expect to stay strong enough for football. He most likely performs explosive movements with moderate resistance and an emphasis on range of motion rather than heavy barbell exercises, which he believes put too much stress on the body.

Brady told GQ: "So to me, it's about having all of my muscles function at 100 percent. Getting them all to expand and contract, always getting great muscle function to create that system in your body that can do it for a long period of time."

The Verdict?
It's hard to argue with the results of Brady's training methods. He is playing at an elite level well beyond the expected longevity of a quarterback; and except for his 2008 ACL tear, he hasn't suffered a serious injury—and the ACL tear was caused by contact, not wear and tear. And Brady has expressed his desire to play well into his 40s given how good his body feels.

There are many different philosophies on training, and trainers don't have to agree on every point. Some prefer powerlifting, some prefer corrective exercises—and then there's muscle pliability.

Apparently it works for Brady, and he's given glowing reviews of Guerrero's methodologies.

"I have a tremendous belief in Alex and what he has accomplished with me. In the 10 or 11 years we've been working together, he has never been wrong.'' —Brady told WEEI, via the Boston Globe.

"I just know that I'm sitting here at age 37 and I feel perfect at the end of 16 games. My arm doesn't hurt, my legs don't hurt. My teammates, they're hurting." —Brady told The New York Times.

We hope Brady releases more info on his muscle pliability training, because it sounds intriguing. The traditionalist in me is naturally skeptical, but he and Guerrero might just be onto something. Hopefully time will tell.

http://www.stack.com/a/does-tom-bradys-focus-on-muscle-pliability-actually-work


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Originally Posted By: Vambo
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: Vambo
Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Quote:
IMO if BB is willing to trade Jimmy G. with all the reasons given then he probably is not as good as some might think


I wonder how many times people are going to completely ignore that the Pats will almost certainly lose Jimmy G to free agency next year?

How do people not get that getting a good return on their investment makes sense for NE?


I do NOT know if NE will trade Jimmy G. In my opinion, it makes sense to trade him and get nice compensation for him rather than losing him to FA and getting less in return. I am not sure how that is even debatable.

It has NOTHING to do w/NE thinking he isn't that good. Please stop spinning that argument.

It ranks right there w/the injury prone thang and the he stinks because he is from NE thang.



Bingo! Listen up, people...


What if Jimmy G won't re-sign with the Browns after a trade?


Franchise tag.


Force him to stay, will that get his best play?


Does he want to get paid or not?

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Vers I just don't get to reply to everyone sometimes I'm not even sure which previous poster you were referring to. I wasn't taking anything away from Jimmy just that bill game plans accordingly when Tom isn't at the reigns.

I agree that Jimmy far outplayed Brissett but I still stand by my simplified offense remark. I found a breakdown of Jimmy's over those two games and his single read throws was more than I'd like but that doesn't mean he didn't sling it when he was allowed (esp against miami). Brissett was practically running a single read option college O. Bill didnt let him do much at all but when he did it looked good. If I'm not driving I'm at least shotgun on the Jimmy G bus I'm just being impartial for discussion.

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Pred.............my post wasn't just to you.

There was a guy earlier who said that Brissett played just as well as Jimmy G.

That is simply not true. You guys didn't correct him, but challenged my stance.

I chose to bring facts to the table rather than BS.

And again, my comments were not really towards you. You just happened to be in the middle. LOL

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vers, are you willing to give JimmyG a Osweiler type contract?

.....It was $72 million for four years, $37 million guaranteed.

.....How much you willing to invest in draft picks to NE to sign Garoppolo?...1st round+more?...


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This was an interesting read. Brady's statement about how he feels is amazing. Very interesting about the wear and tear effects on other. Hope we hear more from him about this. Good insight about his career and its potential longevity. Almost too good to be true.


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Vers...would you please answer Mac...lol laugh

I too think it is highly likely that they will not resign JG to a Franchise QB contract.

I also am of the cloth that because Player A tanked after being traded. So will player B...they all are individuals and the formula will not stay true because of the Algebra.

I'm not that high on trading for JG as you.
A lot of question marks still due to limited data to make that kind of investment.

Also the question we have to ask...Its a Given that a 3rd year QB who has been taught correctly in the same system is going to be further ahead than any Rookie QB. For the comments, about JG being better than Rub or Watson, made by several posters.

The key question. Will we stay in the same offense for 3+ years (continuity). Will we teach them correctly without throwing them to the fire day one.

And the ultimate Question. Where will those QBs be in year 3 to compare what JG will provide now.

I trust Hue.
Also near the end of the year a Sports Journalist asked Hue a question by stating there is no Franchise QB for an early pick...Hue raised his eyebrow and stated immediately...Oh there is one and smiled.

I am pretty sure we will take the QB #1. It probably is Trubisky.

jmho...just want everyone to get ready for that pick.


Last edited by eotab; 01/17/17 08:46 AM.

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eotab of course he is going to say that. Saying anything else would not be good draft day strategy. From now till the draft you shouldn't believe one word you hear from a coach's or GM's mouth concerning the draft.


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Or Hue was already trying to drive up the value of the top pick.

Hopefully Hue was spending time focused on our current team and our opponents during the season.

We could take a QB, Garrett, or trade down. We could trade for Jimmy Garoppolo. We'll find out when we find out. It's smoke and mirror season. Unfortunately, I'm not sure the Browns ever leave this season.


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Originally Posted By: Bard Dawg
This was an interesting read. Brady's statement about how he feels is amazing. Very interesting about the wear and tear effects on other. Hope we hear more from him about this. Good insight about his career and its potential longevity. Almost too good to be true.


Brady can say all that he wants...we've seen/heard people want to play forever and then one day it all falls apart. It can came faster than he realizes.

One thing I'd like to note about Bill Belichick. He is great and recognizing the time right before you start to fade. That's when he's traded players or let them walk. They might perform well for a year but after that, it's all downhill.

I wonder if BB has thought about this time frame for Brady? I'm not saying it's within the context of this Jimmy G trade talk, but you never know.


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Vers...would you please answer Mac...lol


I have answered the question at least 3 or 4 times.

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I heard Collinsworth talking about Brady's workout and what great shape Brady is in. He mentioned how much Brady believes in that particular training/diet plan. I was curious, so I researched it.

I see what you are saying, but considering how well Brady is playing and the kind of shape he is in, it's kinda hard to just ignore all of that and just say that he is about to fall apart and be put out to pasture.

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Quote:
it's kinda hard to just ignore all of that and just say that he is about to fall apart and be put out to pasture.


I am not ignoring anything and said no such thing that he is about to be put out to pasture. I said he can never know when it is going to happen regardless of how long he wants to play for.


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I wasn't attacking you.

I am simply saying that given Brady's physical condition, the depth and forward thinking of his diet/training plan, and most importantly--his performance on the field, that it's not a stretch to think he is going to be able to keep playing well while Jimmy G is still under contract.

And if that is the case, it would make sense for NE to try and get as much compensation as they can for Jimmy G.

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Okay...have a nice day.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Quote:
Vers...would you please answer Mac...lol


I have answered the question at least 3 or 4 times.


vers...can't find your answers anywhere...not looking for anything long in way of an answer, either..

Pretty simple...

vers,

#1.. Are you willing to give JimmyG a Osweiler type contract, 60 or 70 million for 4 years with half of it guaranteed?

#2..How much you willing to invest in draft picks to NE to sign Garoppolo?...1st round+more?...a 2nd round pick?...3rd round pick?

Last edited by mac; 01/17/17 11:12 AM.

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mac, I have answered your questions. Stop playing your silly little game.

Most folks w/a brain can figure out what you are doing. You are connecting Osweiller's contract and terrible performance to Jimmy G.

Go deceive others. I'm not playing that silly game.

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How had is it to copy your simple answer and post it?

I sure can't find it...dont think you even answered it...show me???


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Originally Posted By: mac
How had is it to copy your simple answer and post it?

I sure can't find it...dont think you even answered it...show me???


About as hard as it is for you to look rofl

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[quote=mac]

#1.. Are you willing to give JimmyG a Osweiler type contract, 60 or 70 million for 4 years with half of it guaranteed?

Yes, in the 50-60 range.

#2..How much you willing to invest in draft picks to NE to sign Garoppolo?...1st round+more?...a 2nd round pick?...3rd round pick?[/color]

Our #12 for JG and the Pats 1st rounder (#32?)[/quote]

For fun only, mac, but it's a starting point for discussion...


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BB I would rather not give up 12 but I could live with it. Would you rather have wentz and a 4th this year or Jimmy G, Corey Coleman, shon coleman, kessler, Ricardo louis, drango, the pats 1st, Tennessee 2nd and the Eagles 2nd next year? And you guys wonder why I want to trade out of one! Jj

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Self evident! And I could probably live trading out of #1, but no lower than #6... superconfused


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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Brady's physical condition, the depth and forward thinking of his diet/training plan, and most importantly--his performance on the field, that it's not a stretch to think he is going to be able to keep playing well while Jimmy G is still under contract.

And if that is the case, it would make sense for NE to try and get as much compensation as they can for Jimmy G.


Let's see how Brady finishes this season first. Injuries happen. The NE FO knows it.


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Just my 2 cents worth. What if we stayed where we are in the draft this year took the best players available at that pick and tried to sign JG when he becomes a FA. We'll probably have more cap space next year also with the RG3 contract done. Of course this depends on whether the FO feels he can be our QB of the future. If we can't sign him then we draft a QB next year when the talent is suppose to be better.

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Originally Posted By: Homewood Dog
... sign JG when he becomes a FA.


Depends on whether you believe that the Pats won't trade him prior to becoming a FA. Waiting for FA in 2018 would be a significant gamble if you really want JG...


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NE is going to trade him this year.

The teams in need will be calling. BB will negotiate the best deal he can.

It only makes sense unless Brady says I plan to retire sooner rather than later.

If they wait till he becomes a free agent they lose assets. Unless they franchise him in which case they will be paying big time starters money to two quarterbacks.

If they were to let Garoppolo go to free agency then he can sign with any team of his choice.

This is really very simple. If they think that Garoppolo can be a franchise quarterback then they have the ammo to make it happen. If not then they will go another route.

The question is: Is Garoppolo a better prospect than any of the guys coming out of college?

The Browns can invest in a draft pick to be the guy or they can trade for Garoppolo.

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Personally, I would rather not trade for JG and draft and develop our own guy. I'm not saying JG won't be good or not but I hate to give up those picks. It hasn't worked out in the past but we should be able to draft and develop our own QB. It's time we make it happen.

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I can't believe U just want to IGNORE the fact he has VALUE for the upcoming year as a back up ... there a SB contender ... he has VALUE for them ... over 1/2 the teams in the AFC started at least 2 QB's this past season due to injuries .. INCLUDING NE who had JG start and get hurt .. then they had Brissett start and he got hurt ... only reason JG didn't start week 4 is that Brissett was "healthier" then he was ....

There's VALUE THERE weather u guys want to admit it or not ...

U guys act like trading him is a NO-BRAINER ... when in fact its NOT ...

At least u acknowledge there will be other teams calling ... there's NO WAY we get him for lESS than the 1st pick in rnd 2 ... that is the LEAST he will cost us ... and that's all about how many other teams need QB's and not the VALUE BILL PLACES ON HIM ...

It seems to me alot of u think just because we need a QB it means he will be traded ... SORRY .. but he has value to the NE patriots team for next season ... the question is ... how much faith does bill have in Brissett if Tom goes down and that will help Bill determine WHAT JG IS WORTH TO HIM in a trade ....




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Those are might thoughts also. New England has the cap space if they decide to work a deal out with Jimmy G too.


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Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
I can't believe U just want to IGNORE the fact he has VALUE for the upcoming year as a back up ... there a SB contender ... he has VALUE for them ... over 1/2 the teams in the AFC started at least 2 QB's this past season due to injuries .. INCLUDING NE who had JG start and get hurt .. then they had Brissett start and he got hurt ... only reason JG didn't start week 4 is that Brissett was "healthier" then he was ....

There's VALUE THERE weather u guys want to admit it or not ...

U guys act like trading him is a NO-BRAINER ... when in fact its NOT ...

At least u acknowledge there will be other teams calling ... there's NO WAY we get him for lESS than the 1st pick in rnd 2 ... that is the LEAST he will cost us ... and that's all about how many other teams need QB's and not the VALUE BILL PLACES ON HIM ...

It seems to me alot of u think just because we need a QB it means he will be traded ... SORRY .. but he has value to the NE patriots team for next season ... the question is ... how much faith does bill have in Brissett if Tom goes down and that will help Bill determine WHAT JG IS WORTH TO HIM in a trade ....




we agree at last...we agree at last. thank god, we agree at last.


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Originally Posted By: Homewood Dog
Personally, I would rather not trade for JG and draft and develop our own guy. I'm not saying JG won't be good or not but I hate to give up those picks. It hasn't worked out in the past but we should be able to draft and develop our own QB. It's time we make it happen.


What? How many big-time QBs have we traded for?

We have drafted the following QBs in the first round:

Timid = Bust

BQ = Bust

Weeden = Bust

Manziel = Bust

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Oh crap ... guess i gotta re-think that now .. *L* ...




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Quote:
There's VALUE THERE weather u guys want to admit it or not ...

U guys act like trading him is a NO-BRAINER ... when in fact its NOT ...


What are you talking about? Who is acting like it is a no-brainer? We have brought it up because posters keep saying crap like "if Jimmy G was good, BB would never trade him."

They say crap like: "he will suck because all backup NE QBs have sucked in the past."

They say crap like: "Osweiler got a lot of money and he stinks."

They say crap like: "Jimmy G is injury prone."

They say stuff like: "He has the build of RGIII," or "he is too small." Meanwhile he is bigger than both Watson and Trub.

Yet, you act like we are the crazy ones for saying that it's not a stretch to think that NE would want to get some good players in return BEFORE he reaches free agency?

Color me superconfused

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