DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Hiring Gregg Williams (according to LaCanfora)

Who is this, exactly? You'd be hard pressed to name one person who thinks that.



Who was fired in 2014?



You keep making this point like you've discovered the Rosetta stone. No one is arguing that fact.



You consider the firing of Horton, "blowing things up"?



Who believes this? Anyone? No. Firing Horton and hiring Williams was a good move. That's a far cry from believing constant change is the answer. If you don't see the replacement as a good move, that's one thing, but couching your argument in an inaccurate generalization doesn't make your point.

You're angry, we get it. But you're tilting at windmills.

Apparently Vers would rather had Hue stay the course and possibly have the whole coaching staff fired in a year or two due to Horton not handling the defense the way Hue wants instead of Hue making a change and living or dying with the guy he wants.

Wait! What?

We only fired Horton?

I could have sworn I read that 5 or 6 coaches were fired. Must have been a dream.

Apparently, you have no clue as to what I think.

I have been defending Hue all season. For example, after our last game, a poster called Hue a punk and that he should be fired. I defended Hue.

I defend the coaches all the time. I believe that firing coaches and FO personnel has been our biggest downfall since we came back.

Don't freaking attempt to misconstrue my words, son.

You guys are always giddy about firing coaches and try to paint this stupid rosy scenario each time. And when I caution you about putting too much stock into coaching changes..........like I did last year when so many of you were so giddy we fired our previous coaching staff and hired Hue and Horton.......you get upset and make [censored] up like you just did!

Changing coaches and FO personnel has not worked. Period!!!!!!!!!

That is the collateral damage. Any time a coordinator is replaced, others are as well. Some come in on the coat tails, some go out on the coat tails.

You know that.

Noone on this board knows a damn thing when it comes down to why Hue made the decision to fire Horton. He did it, and it's done. I don't even care why. It's done.

Williams is here. Why did he get hired? Who the hell cares? He's here.

I swear, this forum would die off if everyone stopped bitching.

Stop it.

Talk football. Talk X's and O's. Talk about how players can work in a system. Talk about weight training.

Just please, please stop the constant bitching.

No crap I know it...........and it is part of the reason why I think the move was as ignorant as all the other coaching changes.

peen, can you and all the other apologists tell me how well changing coaches has worked over the years?

When are you guys and the Browns going to freaking wake up and see what the real problem w/this team is?

Ahhhh...........are you talking football?

Pffft......get lost.

Some of you want everyone just to be a cheerleader.

Let's turn it around, shall we?

I am talking football when I say that changing coaches is not a good thing. Stop bitching and complaining and whining about me not loving every move the Browns make.

Just stop!!!!

LOL...........

I remember back in 99, I could literally only tell you who the head coach was. (I was also only 13)

Then Butch came in, and i started reading about him having disagreements with "Front Office" people.. and he blamed his "Coordinator" for the playoff loss..

It was so much easier back then to just watch football. Hell I didnt even really pay attention to the draft passed our first pick..

Sigh.

I get that changing coaches is bad but its also true that holding onto a bad coach is bad too. Even mediocre coaches can teach how to tackle. I personally feel this is a major upgrade at the DC position. If he does nothing more than teach these guys to tackle consistently he will make our defense much better than last year.

We just disagree.



I think we made a huge upgraded. I don't really are who the position coaches might be.

How the hell can you tell if he is a bad coach w/the talent the FO and Hue gave him?

And people act like Williams is so great, but his defense sucked this year. They gave up 40+ points in 3 of the last 6 games and over 30 points in 6 games this year. They gave up 28 to freaking SF.

And I am not bad-mouthing Williams for that. He lost talent from the previous year.

And that is the key.............it's about freaking TALENT!

I am not backing down and I will take all-y'all on. It's no thing, because I am right about this and I will destroy all-y'all!

First I ain't your son. I don't think we're very far apart age wise.

Second I agree that the team can't continually change Head Coaches and Front Office personnel. You can't win without continuity but you got to give Hue the opportunity to put together the staff he wants so he can either win or fail on his own.

Then don't act so immature.

Hue chose his first staff. Who chose that staff? Pettine?

LOL

I'm immature yet your the one who has to constantly belittle people and start fights. How about you grow up instead of being an internet bully.

Yes Hue chose his staff but as pointed out by others when he did a lot of the people he wanted were not available at that time. Williams became available and apparently Hue didn't think he could continue with Horton so he made the change. How hard is that for you to comprehend.

Wait. I start fights because I voice my opinion that I don't believe in firing coaches and FO personnel. Then guys like you belittle me and when I respond to your attacks, you say I start the fights.

Get lost!

Well you got that part right.

You voice your opinion but when others voice theirs and it contradicts yours then you belittle them and start fights.

Proof positive.

I blame Dennis Northcutt personally.

Vers do you honestly think our defense could possibly get worse next season? Let Hue have the coaches he wants for crying out loud. It's Hue's job on the line and he knows the situation far better than we do.

J/C

I ask myself this simple question: Does Hue have the right to determine who is going to coach on his staff?

If so, he made his choice. I have no issue with that. If not, then somebody else made the decision, and I do take issue with that.

Nothing points to others making that decision.

Constant turnover of coaching staffs definitely derails continuity, but Gregg Williams has a successful track record, and Horton does not. That is, in my humble opinion, why I think it's an upgrade.
Horton didn't have a lot of talent to work with, I agree.

I think most everyone on this board agrees with that point. It's not some sinister FO hugging or bashing...it simply is what it is.

Here is an article that you should read if you want to be truly educated rather than just believing the rhetoric that Horton has never had a god defense:

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...af-d5d887317249

Fair enough. On the surface, at least, Horton has a better track record than I'd thought. Whether his reputation is as solid as Williams's, I don't know.
It doesn't seem to be, but you're right about Horton not having a lot of talent to work with. It's obvious that Hue felt Williams is a clear upgrade, though.

I told y'all why Horton was let go. Try to keep up

- 01/08/17 09:55 AM Re: Ray Horton out as Defensive Coordinator [Re: Versatile Dog]
GMdawg Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 18221
Loc: ohio

The problem with our defense was a lack of talent. Horton was not canned for being a bad coach. He was canned more do to a difference in philosophy on our defense moving forward. Ray wants to run his scheme and wants players that best suit his scheme, and the team wants schemes devised that best suit the talent the team is trying to acquire. They want the defense to be more flexible based on the talent we will have. Not to depend on a set scheme so much.
_________________________
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.

So, Sashi was unable to do the one thing that he was most notably hired for?

au contraire, mon ami

The Browns want to draft the best Talent and class of players they can. Then have the Coach work with that talent. They don't want to try to only draft players that fit one scheme. They want their Defensive Cord. to be flexible, not rigid.

As far as Sashi doing his job, as usual I am willing to wait two more years before I start cheering or bashing him.

Isn't this exactly how you tell if someone is a good coach? Take the untalented and turn them into something?

Can you only be a good coach if you have talent?

Do coaches vary in degrees of competence?

At one point do coaches get the blame?



LOL.

rowns' Gregg Williams is no slouch and 4 other things we learned about his coaching style

CLEVELAND, Ohio

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- New Browns defensive coordinator Gregg Williams captured the attention of the media Thursday when he called them out on their posture during his introductory press conference.

"You know, I'm studying every one of you all, and some of you are slumped,'' he said.

To which everyone inched up a little and made eye contact.

But he did so to illustrate how he'll run his meeting room, and to provide a glimpse into his coaching style.

Here are five things we learned about the new sheriff in town and how he'll run the show in Berea.

1. He's no slouch

Williams expects the straight spines and square shoulders from his players that were missing when he scanned the media room. This might be a little bit of a culture shock, but Ray Horton was also big on players being well-rounded men.

"You're going to have your feet flat on the first day and we're going to talk about how you sit in your chair when I walk in the room, and how you focus and pay attention," he said. "You know, ADHD has been there for a long time and I've been coaching guys like that long before they medicated them. I'm going to medicate them, and get them to understand to pay attention.''

He stressed that someone else will take his job if he can't get the most out of his players.

"If you cannot affect change then you do not belong at this level,'' he said. "Change can be lots of different ways of change. It can be good. It can be tough. It can be nice. It can be smiling. But you have got to affect change. Mental toughness precedes physical toughness. It starts in the room.''

And it's not as easy as it looks.

"I can't tell you how many coaches, you guys think you can coach, you guys are out there talking all the time waiting to sit in my chair,'' he said. "We'll see how long you can hold their attention and see how you can affect production and set body language and all the other things.''

2. He's borderline obsessive-compulsivee

He pays attention to detail, he's obsessively organized and he's addicted to the job. When it's over, you'll see him at Coaches Anonymous meetings.

"People say I have borderline (obsessive-compulsive disorder),'' he said. "I am not OCD. I am just organized, okay? We have to hit the ground running. I am a time manager, a pretty organized person.''

His substance of choice is the job, which is why he's coached five top five defenses in 15 years as a coordinator.

"You will never see me with a beer or two,'' he said. "No tobacco. No prescriptions, hardly at all. But I do not mind saying this, I am a competition-aholic. It will be from practice to meetings to games. I love to compete.''

He'll burn the midnight oil, and if you're the last one in the building, chances are you'll learn a thing or two from him.

"I am about staying in my lane,'' he said. "I also want to be able to mentor some of the other people in the building. I love coaching. I love mentoring young men. I'm happiest during the season. I'm happiest when I am in the office. I'm happiest of all time when I am in between the white lines, competing.''

3. He's a father figure

The day Williams was hired, players such as James Laurainitis and Aaron Donald praised him on social media.

"I get 200 or 300 calls on Father's Day every year from former players that maybe they struggled in life with parental advice and stuff, and then once we have a relationship we have a relationship for life,'' he said. "I really do care a lot about them, and I do care a lot about how they build their resume and how they go about getting a chance to play at this level because it is so hard to play at this level.''

4. He'll keep it simple, but don't mess it up

Williams abides by the axiom "find ball, see ball, get ball.''

But "if the ball goes over our head in a hurry, I don't care who's coaching or playing, they don't get to do it. We've go to, in this wild, throwing league, limit the balls that go over our head in a hurry.''

Williams, who counts both Bill Belichick and Nick Saban among his friends, claims the ability to "accentuate the strengths and hide the weaknesses'' of each player, which is one reason they love playing for him.

"I'll keep it all straight, but how can I make it simple for you,'' he said. "The ability of me to keep it all straight helps the player. I want the player not to have to overthink. When the ball is snapped, it is find ball, see ball, get ball on defense.''

5. The pads will be crunching in practice

Williams believes you play like you practice, and he plans to have his players running full speed and hitting during the week. In fact, he vowed to tackle even with no pads on until someone (the sports science guys) tells him he can't.

"We have to practice fast and we have to practice tough and we have to compete - and then when you get on gameday, it slows down, or maybe it does not slow down but it is not as shocking," he said. "If you can't keep up then they become a fat ass coach."

He'll bring out the best in you, but you must give him maximum effort.

"I will not compromise on their effort and their toughness,'' he said. "People will talk, everywhere I go and coach they say, 'Look how fast those guys play.' Some of it is not raw speed, it is effort. It is just effort. It is what it is on their speed, but they do not loaf, they do not take plays off. That is the hard part about them adjusting to me.''

I blame Anthony Henry. The pick he dropped that would have sealed the game was right in the bread basket, a much easier catch than the high one Northcutt dropped.

Who's being a cheerleader? The simple reality is Horton is gone, Williams is here, and that's it. Which is what I said. Why he is gone is immaterial, why Williams was hired is immaterial.

Bitching about the move is just that. Bitching.

To be fair, I can see Vers' argument - the only thing consistent about the Browns is change and lack of success. We did get rid of a DC and the staff therein. I'm hoping this was all about Hugh finding a DC who he feels is a better fit that he didn't have an option to get last year.

I feel Williams is an upgrade over Horton but Feel a little for Ray as the defense did start looking a little better tail end. I have read Hugh wants a DC who tailors the scheme to players? If Williams offers that flexibility then it's Hugh's call. I'm not happy we have removed a defensive staff but I understand why Hugh did it if the reasons bandied around are true. The fact Williams has pedigree softens the blow for me. I'm a look forward kind of guy - let's see what happens and give benefit of doubt

You avoided answering ALL the questions, replying with another of your supercilious remarks instead. But not answering the questions is an answer, isn't it? You don't like the move because it was a move, but you have no idea whether it was a good move or not. In fact you can't even entertain the notion because it conflicts with your stump thumping agenda.

Hey, look at who liked your post. You are in good company.

Hey, look at you continuing to avoid the questions. Your agenda is tiresome and your points are moot.

I like the hire, and I hope with the additions of a few blue chippers in the draft we can have a bit of a quick turnaround. Not top 5 or anything like that, but a respectable defense that can at least scare QB's into the occasional throwaway.

I thought Sashi was supposed to work out differences between those in the organization?

And bro........I believe you do have inside knowledge. My issue is that when you hear the "reasons" for any decision the Browns have made over the years, you somehow think they are making the right decision.

You were adamant in your defense for why Farmer did the things he did. Turns out, a high percentage of his moves were wrong.

You know, people can give you "reasons" for all kinds of acts. People had "reasons" for keeping slaves. People had "reasons" for exterminating Jews. People had reasons for stealing land from the Native Americans and putting them on reservations.

The "reasons" might be believed by some, but that doesn't make them correct.

GM, we have known each other and been friends for how long? 15, 16, 17 years?

And since the very beginning, you know I have been preaching that the Browns formulate a sound plan and then have the balls to stick w/it. I have maintained throughout all this time that constantly firing people was not the answer.

And bro.......the record proves that all the firings have led to multiple things and none of them are good. Changing schemes, overhauling rosters, not having an identity, poor choices because they didn't have enough time to prepare, instability, in-fighting between new guys and those who remain, etc, etc.

So, while guys like Cal can throw insults my way and act like I am ignorant.............I have my own "reasons" for not being a fan of the constant firings.

Hope you are feeling okay, bro and I'll be PMing you soon.

I stand by this: You don't like the move because it was a move, but you don't know if it's a good move or not. You refuse to consider that it is a good move because it conflicts with your agenda. And like I stated, your agenda is tiresome and your points are moot. If you consider that "throwing insults", that's too bad. And BTW, nobody is "acting like you're ignorant". That's just you playing "Poor little me" once again. That act is as tiresome as your agenda.