|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
We used to have a lot of gun threads on here, although it has been a while since I've seen one. I do remember there were some on here who were advocates of CCW. There are others who see what is happening in the world-- whether it be mass shootings, mob violence, aggressive rioters, and the like-- and may be interested in their legal right to carry.
Some background info: I have had my CCW license for a long time, but have rarely carried in the past. It has actually been a long time since I've carried a gun to anywhere but the range, but I've dabbled enough in it to at least know a little bit of what I'm talking about. Maybe others with more experience can add their thoughts.
I'm not really interested in discussing the politics of it all. I believe most states are "shall issue" states, meaning that some government agency is required to issue a CCW permit to anybody who applies for one, pays the fee, and meets some set of criteria (passed a training course, not a felon, that kind of thing.) If this really bothers you, you should move to a "no issue" state.
One more thing: carry legally, or don't carry. Speaking at least of Ohio, it is really not that difficult to get a permit and the restrictions on carry are not that prohibitive. It's not worth risking a felony charge to carry sometime or somewhere that it's illegal. A better approach would be to work on changing the laws you disagree with but that's a topic for another thread.
-----
Guns. Obviously this is not a fully inclusive list, but here are some that I personally own, have owned, have shot, or at least looked into at one point. I think all could be excellent CCW options, depending on the size and niche you're trying to fill. Ordered from smallest to largest. 9mm is meant to mean 9x19mm Parabellum aka 9mm Luger.
1. Seecamp LWS .380 (6+1 .380 ACP) - Very small, very well built. Easily a step down in size (height and length) from the more popular .380s. Very hard to shoot well, no sights, recoil is harsh, very selective of ammo, and very expensive. But it is almost unbelievably small.
2. Kel-tec P-3AT//Ruger LCP (6+1 .380 ACP) - The P-3AT and LCP are almost the same gun. The LCP is the most popular gun in this category. These are still hard to shoot well, the triggers are bad, lots of felt recoil and just generally unpleasant.
3. Kahr P380/CW380 (6+1 .380 ACP) - The P380 and CW380 are essentially the same model in practice, and really belong in the P-3AT/LCP class in terms of size although I'd consider this one ever so slightly bigger just due to the extra mass in the rear of the slide to house the striker mechanism. Excellent smooth (but long) trigger, good sights, and felt recoil is significantly less than the above guns which is amazing considering the very similar size.
4. Kahr PM9/CM9 (6+1 9mm) - All that is written above could be applied to this. Very good shooter for such a small sized 9mm. I'll say this though-- this is really a different class of gun altogether than the ones listed above. You can compare the specs between say, the Kahr PM9 and P380 and while the specs on paper only appear to be a little bigger for the PM9, they are bigger in every dimension and it makes for a significant difference in real life. Handling the two together makes this very clear.
5. S&W J-frame (5 .38 Special) - The classic "small" gun for civilian CCW and police backup use. You get the revolver reliability and the Centennial models (e.g. 642, 442, 342) with enclosed hammer are very quick and easy to draw from a pocket. I dare almost say fool-proof. Hard to shoot well due to heavy trigger, poor sights, and harsh recoil. Reloads are slow, especially from a speed strip, and require good fine motor skills.
It is bigger in every dimension than the PM9, and while the revolver has some advantage in that regard in that it is not thick all the way through (just at the cylinder) and there is nothing where the rear of the slide would be on an auto, it's still kind of big for a pocket gun. Old timers would probably say that is crazy but what can I say, some of the small .380s spoil you.
6. Various single stack 9mm pistols (generally 7+1 9mm) - Lots of good options here e.g. S&W Shield, Walther PPS, Kahr P9/CW9, Glock 43, Springfield XDs. I think it makes sense to match up the manual of arms with different guns you own as much as practical.
Each has slightly different features and grip heights/magazine extension options and all that. All of these are longer in the slide than the PM9, and most are taller in the grip.
7. Glock 26 (10+1 9mm)- The "subcompact" or "baby" Glock, so named before really small guns became more popular. Figure the length of the gun to be about the same as most of the above single stack 9mms. The height depends on which gun we're talking about and which magazine you use (the flush magazine on the Glock 26 makes the height quite short-- similar to the Kahr PM9.) And of course the double stack Glock is significantly thicker. I would have never considered this to be a pocket gun but I do know a police officer who pocket carries his Glock 26 both on-duty (as a backup gun) and off-duty (as his main gun). He's happy with it but it does require some large pockets. Accepts Glock 19 and Glock 17 magazines.
8. Smith & Wesson M&P9c (12+1 9mm) - A slightly larger gun, points naturally and shoots very well. Accepts M&P full size magazines The M&Ps are available with and without a manual safety. Different strokes for different folks.
9. Glock 19 (15+1 9mm) - Probably the most popular combat handgun out there. Blurs the line between small duty gun and large CCW gun. Recently picked as the standard sidearm by Marine special operators. It's an outstanding gun although the finger groove spacing is a little cramped for my large hands. I actually prefer the spacing on the Glock 17 and Glock 26 (which has the same spacing as Glock 17 although you lose the pinkie.)
10. Smith & Wesson M&P9 (17+1 9mm) - Big brother to the M&P9compact. Another excellent gun, of which there are many in this category. The M&P line was actually built on the .40S&W caliber and being a full sized gun, if there was a gun on the list to step up to .40 on this would probably be it. I personally think these types of guns are just simply too large for CCW although there are some who do it regularly. The single stacks are so much easier and more convenient to carry.
11. Glock 17 (17+1 9mm) - So named because it was the 17th Glock patent, albeit it was the first Glock pistol. A common misconception is that it's named as such because it holds 17 rounds in the magazine, which is a coincidence. I like the gun, it fits my hand really well, but as per above it is just too large IMO. It's a great police duty gun.
-----
Caliber, Holsters, etc.
Much has been written and argued about caliber and I don't care to get too deeply into that but for anybody who is still reading: I think 9mm (again, meaning 9x19mm) is probably the most solid all-around caliber for CCW. It strikes a very good balance between allowing for a fairly compact gun with good capacity, shootability, ballistic performance, and all that.
Some exceptions are made, the most notable probably being the very small guns (in .380ACP) and revolvers in .38 Special. Others might want larger calibers; .40 S&W often comes in the same or very-slightly larger platform compared to a 9mm. Others like their .45 ACP 1911s. You get the idea.
For holsters, this is a highly personal choice but as you can probably tell from the list above, I prefer guns that are easy to carry and easy to conceal. I'm a fan of pocket carry.
*Always use a quality holster that covers the trigger guard. Do not put anything other than the gun+holster into that pocket.*
My opinion is the cutoff for a reasonable pocket gun would be the Kahr PM9 and S&W J-frame, and no bigger. Even those will be too large for some, and if you were snug fitting pants, forget about it. You'd have to go to the .380 pistols. For back pocket carry in a wallet holster, it's the .380s and no bigger.
Larger guns can go on the belt (inside-the-waistband or outside-the-waistband); get a good holster (again, that covers the trigger) and a stiff gun belt. Any of the single stack 9mm or similar guns are easy to carry this way, and will generally conceal fine under a T-shirt. The options here are endless, from ankle carry, cross draw, appendix, belly band, smartcarry, and many others that fill specific needs. For me though, I like pocket carry and if a gun can't reasonably be pocket carried, it would go on the belt behind the hip.
-----
Legal stuff. I actually need to read up on this. Like I wrote above, I have not carried in some time and haven't kept up with most of the legal changes since I got my permit. Does anybody have any good sources on that? I would like to be well-read into the legalities as concealed carry is a big responsibility and carries with it some potentially big liabilities.
-----
Hmmm. That got out of hand fast. Does anybody have any favorite guns that I didn't mention above? Any ideas that you especially agree, or disagree with?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 540
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 540 |
We used to have a lot of gun threads on here, although it has been a while since I've seen one. I do remember there were some on here who were advocates of CCW. There are others who see what is happening in the world-- whether it be mass shootings, mob violence, aggressive rioters, and the like-- and may be interested in their legal right to carry.
Some background info: I have had my CCW license for a long time, but have rarely carried in the past. It has actually been a long time since I've carried a gun to anywhere but the range, but I've dabbled enough in it to at least know a little bit of what I'm talking about. Maybe others with more experience can add their thoughts.
I'm not really interested in discussing the politics of it all. I believe most states are "shall issue" states, meaning that some government agency is required to issue a CCW permit to anybody who applies for one, pays the fee, and meets some set of criteria (passed a training course, not a felon, that kind of thing.) If this really bothers you, you should move to a "no issue" state.
One more thing: carry legally, or don't carry. Speaking at least of Ohio, it is really not that difficult to get a permit and the restrictions on carry are not that prohibitive. It's not worth risking a felony charge to carry sometime or somewhere that it's illegal. A better approach would be to work on changing the laws you disagree with but that's a topic for another thread.
-----
Guns. Obviously this is not a fully inclusive list, but here are some that I personally own, have owned, have shot, or at least looked into at one point. I think all could be excellent CCW options, depending on the size and niche you're trying to fill. Ordered from smallest to largest. 9mm is meant to mean 9x19mm Parabellum aka 9mm Luger.
1. Seecamp LWS .380 (6+1 .380 ACP) - Very small, very well built. Easily a step down in size (height and length) from the more popular .380s. Very hard to shoot well, no sights, recoil is harsh, very selective of ammo, and very expensive. But it is almost unbelievably small.
2. Kel-tec P-3AT//Ruger LCP (6+1 .380 ACP) - The P-3AT and LCP are almost the same gun. The LCP is the most popular gun in this category. These are still hard to shoot well, the triggers are bad, lots of felt recoil and just generally unpleasant.
3. Kahr P380/CW380 (6+1 .380 ACP) - The P380 and CW380 are essentially the same model in practice, and really belong in the P-3AT/LCP class in terms of size although I'd consider this one ever so slightly bigger just due to the extra mass in the rear of the slide to house the striker mechanism. Excellent smooth (but long) trigger, good sights, and felt recoil is significantly less than the above guns which is amazing considering the very similar size.
4. Kahr PM9/CM9 (6+1 9mm) - All that is written above could be applied to this. Very good shooter for such a small sized 9mm. I'll say this though-- this is really a different class of gun altogether than the ones listed above. You can compare the specs between say, the Kahr PM9 and P380 and while the specs on paper only appear to be a little bigger for the PM9, they are bigger in every dimension and it makes for a significant difference in real life. Handling the two together makes this very clear.
5. S&W J-frame (5 .38 Special) - The classic "small" gun for civilian CCW and police backup use. You get the revolver reliability and the Centennial models (e.g. 642, 442, 342) with enclosed hammer are very quick and easy to draw from a pocket. I dare almost say fool-proof. Hard to shoot well due to heavy trigger, poor sights, and harsh recoil. Reloads are slow, especially from a speed strip, and require good fine motor skills.
It is bigger in every dimension than the PM9, and while the revolver has some advantage in that regard in that it is not thick all the way through (just at the cylinder) and there is nothing where the rear of the slide would be on an auto, it's still kind of big for a pocket gun. Old timers would probably say that is crazy but what can I say, some of the small .380s spoil you.
6. Various single stack 9mm pistols (generally 7+1 9mm) - Lots of good options here e.g. S&W Shield, Walther PPS, Kahr P9/CW9, Glock 43, Springfield XDs. I think it makes sense to match up the manual of arms with different guns you own as much as practical.
Each has slightly different features and grip heights/magazine extension options and all that. All of these are longer in the slide than the PM9, and most are taller in the grip.
7. Glock 26 (10+1 9mm)- The "subcompact" or "baby" Glock, so named before really small guns became more popular. Figure the length of the gun to be about the same as most of the above single stack 9mms. The height depends on which gun we're talking about and which magazine you use (the flush magazine on the Glock 26 makes the height quite short-- similar to the Kahr PM9.) And of course the double stack Glock is significantly thicker. I would have never considered this to be a pocket gun but I do know a police officer who pocket carries his Glock 26 both on-duty (as a backup gun) and off-duty (as his main gun). He's happy with it but it does require some large pockets. Accepts Glock 19 and Glock 17 magazines.
8. Smith & Wesson M&P9c (12+1 9mm) - A slightly larger gun, points naturally and shoots very well. Accepts M&P full size magazines The M&Ps are available with and without a manual safety. Different strokes for different folks.
9. Glock 19 (15+1 9mm) - Probably the most popular combat handgun out there. Blurs the line between small duty gun and large CCW gun. Recently picked as the standard sidearm by Marine special operators. It's an outstanding gun although the finger groove spacing is a little cramped for my large hands. I actually prefer the spacing on the Glock 17 and Glock 26 (which has the same spacing as Glock 17 although you lose the pinkie.)
10. Smith & Wesson M&P9 (17+1 9mm) - Big brother to the M&P9compact. Another excellent gun, of which there are many in this category. The M&P line was actually built on the .40S&W caliber and being a full sized gun, if there was a gun on the list to step up to .40 on this would probably be it. I personally think these types of guns are just simply too large for CCW although there are some who do it regularly. The single stacks are so much easier and more convenient to carry.
11. Glock 17 (17+1 9mm) - So named because it was the 17th Glock patent, albeit it was the first Glock pistol. A common misconception is that it's named as such because it holds 17 rounds in the magazine, which is a coincidence. I like the gun, it fits my hand really well, but as per above it is just too large IMO. It's a great police duty gun.
-----
Caliber, Holsters, etc.
Much has been written and argued about caliber and I don't care to get too deeply into that but for anybody who is still reading: I think 9mm (again, meaning 9x19mm) is probably the most solid all-around caliber for CCW. It strikes a very good balance between allowing for a fairly compact gun with good capacity, shootability, ballistic performance, and all that.
Some exceptions are made, the most notable probably being the very small guns (in .380ACP) and revolvers in .38 Special. Others might want larger calibers; .40 S&W often comes in the same or very-slightly larger platform compared to a 9mm. Others like their .45 ACP 1911s. You get the idea.
For holsters, this is a highly personal choice but as you can probably tell from the list above, I prefer guns that are easy to carry and easy to conceal. I'm a fan of pocket carry.
*Always use a quality holster that covers the trigger guard. Do not put anything other than the gun+holster into that pocket.*
My opinion is the cutoff for a reasonable pocket gun would be the Kahr PM9 and S&W J-frame, and no bigger. Even those will be too large for some, and if you were snug fitting pants, forget about it. You'd have to go to the .380 pistols. For back pocket carry in a wallet holster, it's the .380s and no bigger.
Larger guns can go on the belt (inside-the-waistband or outside-the-waistband); get a good holster (again, that covers the trigger) and a stiff gun belt. Any of the single stack 9mm or similar guns are easy to carry this way, and will generally conceal fine under a T-shirt. The options here are endless, from ankle carry, cross draw, appendix, belly band, smartcarry, and many others that fill specific needs. For me though, I like pocket carry and if a gun can't reasonably be pocket carried, it would go on the belt behind the hip.
-----
Legal stuff. I actually need to read up on this. Like I wrote above, I have not carried in some time and haven't kept up with most of the legal changes since I got my permit. Does anybody have any good sources on that? I would like to be well-read into the legalities as concealed carry is a big responsibility and carries with it some potentially big liabilities.
-----
Hmmm. That got out of hand fast. Does anybody have any favorite guns that I didn't mention above? Any ideas that you especially agree, or disagree with? The Sig P250/320 is a good choice, especially considering the fact that they're modular with regards to grip sizes, magazines, and caliber; the FCU is the only standardized thing on the entire weapon. The only downside is, the 250 is DAO, which some people admittedly don't like, and the 320 is striker fired (the US Army just decided on this gun to replace the Beretta).
Last edited by Schadenfreude; 01/22/17 01:22 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,197
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,197 |
A friend on these forums convinced me not to disclose which firearms I own...it's not something you want out in cyber space.
I too am a proponent of pocket carry. I usually wear khakis or cargo shorts which have big enough pockets to hold my double stack compact 9mm in a Mika pocket holster. This guy custom makes the quality pocket holsters at a very reasonable price. I've made several purchases from him....he's a retired LA police officer and knows what he's doing. The holsters hold the gun snug and stay in your pocket when you draw.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,899
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,899 |
Ugh. Cue the gun porn discussions with photos and people salivating over their preferred weapon of choice.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367 |
Ugh. Cue the gun porn discussions with photos and people salivating over their preferred weapon of choice.
The great thing is, you don't have to enter this thread again if you find it so unappealing. Why you would even take the time to post in it is odd. Actually, it's not, we all know why you did.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,197
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,197 |
Ugh. Cue the gun porn discussions with photos and people salivating over their preferred weapon of choice.
WTF are you talking about? I've been on this forum since Y2K and have never witnessed a firearm/gun control post turned into a gun porn thread.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
What's wrong with gun porn?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,197
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,197 |
What's wrong with gun porn? What you do in the privacy of your own home is none of our business.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,612
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,612 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
The Sig P250/320 is a good choice, especially considering the fact that they're modular with regards to grip sizes, magazines, and caliber; the FCU is the only standardized thing on the entire weapon. The only downside is, the 250 is DAO, which some people admittedly don't like, and the 320 is striker fired (the US Army just decided on this gun to replace the Beretta). The modular concept is interesting. I tend to think that is more beneficial to the military and large police agencies and may help with logistics in equipping officers who have different preferences. I did shoot one of the earlier Sig P250s. I am a fan of DOA triggers, the Sig P250 is very smooth but the pull is even too long for me. I found myself short stroking it sometimes on the reset. It is noticeably longer than a typical revolver trigger, to give some frame of reference. I don't know much about the P320 but was never a fan of the Beretta M9.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
A friend on these forums convinced me not to disclose which firearms I own...it's not something you want out in cyber space.
I too am a proponent of pocket carry. I usually wear khakis or cargo shorts which have big enough pockets to hold my double stack compact 9mm in a Mika pocket holster. This guy custom makes the quality pocket holsters at a very reasonable price. I've made several purchases from him....he's a retired LA police officer and knows what he's doing. The holsters hold the gun snug and stay in your pocket when you draw. That's a good point. I was intentionally obtuse about which guns I owned for that reason, and I should have included some kind of disclaimer about that in the OP. Of course, all my guns are legally owned but it's probably not a good idea to put it out there, for a variety of reasons. Maybe a hacker gains access to your personal information and now he knows which guns you own, or something along those lines. just putting it out there for anybody else who responds. It's interesting that you pocket carry a double stack 9mm. It can definitely be done but like you said, it does require some kind of khakis/cargo shorts or similar with large pockets. It's not going to work in a typical pair of jeans. You might be able to fit it in, but it will print badly and good luck getting it out.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823 |
Trump and the Republicans are going to push for National reciprocity on Concealed Carry Permits. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,899
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,899 |
WTF are you talking about? I've been on this forum since Y2K and have never witnessed a firearm/gun control post turned into a gun porn thread.
Hmmm...that's odd because I vividly remember a thread, what was it, the Pulse night club mass shooting or San Bernardino (?) where it derailed into people talking about their guns and posting photos of them. In a thread about a mass shooting no less. I am not a far/militant lefty but, when it comes to guns...yea, I am very left on that issue. Personally, I think they bring nothing of value to society. And, no I am not talking about hunting so, don't bring up that debate. I am talking about handguns and semi-automatics that were made for one reason only...to kill people or to be used on a battlefield. So, I will bow out now and let you guys enjoy talking about your handheld killing machines.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
The only thing I'll add to this thread is the fact that it's wack as hell that if someone has a medical weed card, they can't buy a weapon. Or they can't get a CCW in some states.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823 |
We can not allow the Mentally ill or the Mentally altered patient to carry a weapon.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
We can not allow the Mentally ill or the Mentally altered patient to carry a weapon. I've literally seen you advocate for closed carries in bars.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,907
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,907 |
Probably best you bow out?
My "hand held killing" machines haven't killed anyone.
I've killed deer, and eaten them.
I've shot a lot of rounds at the target in the back yard. It's fun.
My daughter has learned to shoot, and to respect guns. Want to teach a kid what a gun can do? Show them a deer that was hit by a shotgun slug.
Daughter likes to shoot.
Son hated guns until ............. and yup, he just bought one not too long ago. Wanna hear something ironic? He had called to ask what I though he should get. I asked him what he wanted it for.
3 weeks later (I think it was 3 weeks) he came home, and brought his gun. Knowing he was coming home with a gun, I printed off a list of do's and dont's. I decided to not give him the list, as I didn't want to be overbearing.
He got home and started telling us about a co-worker of his, who got called from work because her daughter had been shot. From a gun that the guy said was unloaded. (this was at a party - no idea if alcohol was involved or not).
After he got done telling us, I pulled out the list of "do's and don'ts". Ironically, first thing on my list, prior to knowing anything about what happened with his co workers daughter, was "Every gun is loaded. I don't care if I hand it to you and tell you it's unloaded - if the gun is in your hands and you don't check, it's on you."
Wife even said (she had no idea I had a list of rules) Oh my God, that is so weird that that was the first thing you had listed."
Guns are dangerous when in the wrong hands. Guns are great when in the right hands.
Oh, each of my guns are legally owned, as well.
And I feel I know gun safety, as do I feel both of my kids know gun safety.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,907
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,907 |
We can not allow the Mentally ill or the Mentally altered patient to carry a weapon. I've literally seen you advocate for closed carries in bars. Concealed carry in any establishment that serves alcohol is 100% legal in Ohio - AS LONG as the carrier of said weapon is not drinking. Carrying a gun in public and drinking? Felon.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823 |
We can not allow the Mentally ill or the Mentally altered patient to carry a weapon. I've literally seen you advocate for closed carries in bars. Arch is right and I can promise you, as a law abiding citizen, you will never find me anywhere near a gun if I have been or intend to drink alcohol. It is part of being a good and responsible citizen. I don't need the worlds weenies telling me what I can not and should not do. I know better than they do already.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
WTF are you talking about? I've been on this forum since Y2K and have never witnessed a firearm/gun control post turned into a gun porn thread.
Hmmm...that's odd because I vividly remember a thread, what was it, the Pulse night club mass shooting or San Bernardino (?) where it derailed into people talking about their guns and posting photos of them. In a thread about a mass shooting no less. I am not a far/militant lefty but, when it comes to guns...yea, I am very left on that issue. Personally, I think they bring nothing of value to society. And, no I am not talking about hunting so, don't bring up that debate. I am talking about handguns and semi-automatics that were made for one reason only...to kill people or to be used on a battlefield. So, I will bow out now and let you guys enjoy talking about your handheld killing machines. Sensationalize much? You should look up some statistics on CCW holders. You will find that as a group, they are more law-abiding than average citizens. Also I don't care to get too deeply into the politics of everything, but I will share some personal anecdotes. I don't really want to carry a gun. I do not want to feel like I have to carry a gun. As I wrote above, I have rarely carried even though I'd be perfectly legal to do so on an almost daily basis (there are some exceptions, depending on where I travel.) I'm sure if I posted this on a gun board, I'd get a lecture about how I should always carry, that you dangerous things happen in undangerous areas, you can't choose when something will happen, Murphy's law, and all that. They are valid points. I've resisted. However, to use a word from the other thread, there are a lot of savages out there. Sorry but it's just the truth. Surely you witnessed it in the Portland riots. It has happened all over the country for many months. FBO shared his experiences in California and Arizona. We witness the same things-- people attacking with bottles, rocks, flammable liquid, fireworks, poles, knives, and yes even guns. Often it is unprovoked. Often there are multiple attackers. No person-- no matter how big, strong, or tough, can hope to prevail against multiple competent attackers or one with a knife. A gun is the great equalizer. If you don't like that, that's too bad. When I carry, I carry legally, sober, I have a calm demeanor and I avoid confrontation. I don't ever expect to have to use a gun for anything other than putting holes through paper. But having one does feel comforting.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,899
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,899 |
However, to use a word from the other thread, there are a lot of savages out there. Sorry but it's just the truth. Surely you witnessed it in the Portland riots. It has happened all over the country for many months. I have never felt scared for my life in Portland. Yes, it has rough areas but, I have never felt threatened. I have also travelled all over this country...Cleveland, Detroit, St. Louis, LA, SF, Seattle, NYC, Chicago, Boston, DC, Vegas etc. etc. and I have been in many cities and countries around the world (including poor, third world countries where I was the minority). I have NEVER feared for my life. Have I been in areas where I was intimidated or had my "street sense antennae on red alert"? Absolutely. Some of the scariest places I have been have actually been in the US. East St. Louis and Kansas City, Kansas were scarier than the Bronx, Camden, NJ or Santo Domingo, DR. Why? Because large groups of people were just hanging out on the streets and the side streets were completely deserted. But, more to the point...the fact that SO many people have guns in the country is probably the main reason. To be honest, if I ever feel I need to walk around carrying a gun for my own safety...I think it will be time to move.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
However, to use a word from the other thread, there are a lot of savages out there. Sorry but it's just the truth. Surely you witnessed it in the Portland riots. It has happened all over the country for many months. I have never felt scared for my life in Portland. Yes, it has rough areas but, I have never felt threatened. I have also travelled all over this country...Cleveland, Detroit, St. Louis, LA, SF, Seattle, NYC, Chicago, Boston, DC, Vegas etc. etc. and I have been in many cities and countries around the world (including poor, third world countries where I was the minority). I have NEVER feared for my life. Have I been in areas where I was intimidated or had my "street sense antennae on red alert"? Absolutely. Some of the scariest places I have been have actually been in the US. East St. Louis and Kansas City, Kansas were scarier than the Bronx, Camden, NJ or Santo Domingo, DR. Why? Because large groups of people were just hanging out on the streets and the side streets were completely deserted. But, more to the point...the fact that SO many people have guns in the country is probably the main reason. To be honest, if I ever feel I need to walk around carrying a gun for my own safety...I think it will be time to move. To use Cleveland as an example, as I imagine that many on here live in the area or at least have roots in Cleveland: I have a friend who works as a paramedic in Cleveland. He regularly tells me of all kinds of violence that happens downtown and insists that it is much worse than people realize. The statistics bear this out: Cleveland has a higher per-capita violent crime rate and higher per-capita murder rate than Chicago. By the way, he is the staunchest advocate of concealed carry that I know. He says that he has been attacked while working and he is in no way, shape, or form a police officer. How much of a scumbag do you have to be to attack a paramedic? But anyway, enough of this, I'm going to go watch some football.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,907
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,907 |
So, you sound like the epitome of a ccw person.
Or, like the captain of a ship that has never, ever been worried for his life, or the life of the people riding on the ship.
So, why the hell have life jackets, right?
I've also been to Cleveland, Detroit, Seattle, NYC, Chicago, Boston, DC (never Vegas, or St. Louis). Never once, in those places, did I fear for my life.
I was in the safe areas of town though.
I don't fear for my life where I live, either. Unless and until someone breaks in to my home. Might not happen ever, might happen tonight.
Me having a gun is endangering you how, again?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,899
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,899 |
I have a friend who works as a paramedic in Cleveland. He regularly tells me of all kinds of violence that happens downtown and insists that it is much worse than people realize. The statistics bear this out: Cleveland has a higher per-capita violent crime rate and higher per-capita murder rate than Chicago. By the way, he is the staunchest advocate of concealed carry that I know. He says that he has been attacked while working and he is in no way, shape, or form a police officer. How much of a scumbag do you have to be to attack a paramedic?
Same with most cities due to drugs and alcohol. ER visits probably skyrocket Thurs-Sun. Glasgow, Scotland is a rough city...used to be known as "stabbing and heroin capital of Europe". Add to it the Scots like their drink. It's an intimidating city at 11:30pm when people have left the pubs. But, I didn't feel I needed a gun for my own safety when I was there. But anyway, enough of this, I'm going to go watch some football. Good idea. I will join ya...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
By that logic, if you drink alcohol, you shouldn't be allowed to buy a weapon, period.
That's all I'm saying. I'm a weed smoker, which doesn't make a person violent, yet I can't purchase a weapon if I have a medical card, but you drunks can buy whatever you want?
Odd.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823 |
Read your Prescription man! You ain't even supposed to drive or operate heavy equipment!
No guns for you!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,122
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,122 |
Ugh. Cue the gun porn discussions with photos and people salivating over their preferred weapon of choice.
I carry a long barrel, 3" thick stock, triple-shot weapon and the triple crown is loved by all the ladies because it can satisfy them all for just under 2g =)
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
Trump and the Republicans are going to push for National reciprocity on Concealed Carry Permits. Yeah, I'm waiting on that one. I took the Utah class for which I still need to send off $50 to add a few more states onto my total, but I'll wait to see what happens at the federal level. I don't travel much so it's not a big deal. I got my CCL ~2 months ago, been carrying almost every day since. I'm in the market for a compact 9MM, but I still need to shop a bit more.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,880
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,880 |
I've had my Ohio CCW license since 2007. When I carry I 50% of the time double carry.
I'll carry my Beretta FS92 9mm(15+1) at 1 O-Clock and my S&W M&P9(16+1) at 4 O-Clock.
My holsters are both inside the waistband SuperTuck's.
I wish I was more in-tune with a few different states laws that Ohio has reciprocity with. When we travel to and fro the Myrtle Beach area the states that come into play besides Ohio are West Virginia, Virginia, North Carolina and South Carolina.
With not being in the know on their laws I generally store my unloaded handgun(s) in one suitcase and ammunition in another case, hence pretty much unarmed.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823 |
I live in Virginia where I am a law abiding citizen with a concealed carry permit, travel to Pennsylvania where I am also a law abiding citizen as Pa accepts my Va permit but I must travel through Maryland where I am a Felon if I am not extremely careful.
Libmerica for ya.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,438
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,438 |
I only bring my gun to FL. GA has reciprocity with them, so its fine.
No Craps Given
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,907
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,907 |
Wow - you c.c. both of those?
When you say Beretta FS92, I assume you are talking the same gun as what I call a Beretta 92FS.
That's a large gun to carry. And also you carry a M&P 9? At the same time?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,815
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,815 |
Great link thank you!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,634
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,634 |
When I carry I 50% of the time double carry. I always double carry. Left arm, and right arm. Welcome to my gun show in the summer. I do however now conceal them in the winter 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066 |
By that logic, if you drink alcohol, you shouldn't be allowed to buy a weapon, period.
That's all I'm saying. I'm a weed smoker, which doesn't make a person violent, yet I can't purchase a weapon if I have a medical card, but you drunks can buy whatever you want?
Odd. The difference being I believe is that if you have a medical marijuana card it is assumed you are smoking fairly regularly. I'd presume it's not something you'd only do like once a week. The point is that you can't carry AND have an impairing substance in your system. Now to be fair that should also include other medications and painkillers as well.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066 |
For the group in general,
NC will honor a CCW from every other state that formally issues one. You don't have to store your stuff in any particular way. Just if you are pulled over immediately declare that you are carrying. You'll then be asked where the gun is so there are no surprises, then be prepared to produce your license and your permit if asked.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066 |
PDX, I'll be the last person to tell you that you are wrong for feeling that way. So often I am asked by a citizen if they should get a gun. My answer is the same every time: it's a personal decision. You have to decide if it's the right thing for you and your family and if you are willing to take the steps to become comfortable owning one. If you aren't comfortable owning one, it's probably best you don't get one. The only other thing I'll say is this: there are stories abound where people felt and believed just as you did... until they were victimized and needed one. But if you can go through life never needing one or feeling like you need(ed) one... that would be truly awesome! 
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
Glasgow, Scotland is a rough city...used to be known as "stabbing and heroin capital of Europe". Add to it the Scots like their drink. It's an intimidating city at 11:30pm when people have left the pubs. But, I didn't feel I needed a gun for my own safety when I was there. Here's an idea. Flip the argument around. Why shouldn't I carry a gun? - The NRA has already done a great job in fighting for our rights, including the right to carry. - I already took the class and have my permit. The permit itself costs less than 100 dollars and only has to be renewed every five years. - I already own the guns, holsters, ammo, etc. I may buy more in the future but it's really not a pressing need for me. - You can probably tell by the list of firearms in the original post, but I favor small, light, and easy to carry guns. This is a highly debatable point, and one that plenty of smart people disagree with, but that is my general philosophy. In most cases, it would literally be as simple as grabbing a holstered gun and putting it in my pocket. These are lightweight combinations and you probably couldn't tell I was carrying even if you were looking. Do I go around looking for fights? Of course not. I also don't think I will ever have to draw a gun in self defense. But since I've already made the effort to find several small guns that I consider reliable and easy to carry, why not carry one?
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Concealed Carry
|
|
