Not sure if I missed it yet, but I haven't seen a thread specifically for Myles.
Positives: + God gifted athleticism that puts him in a tier with the elites. + Produced consistently his entire career (10th all time in NCAA history for sacks). + Good head on his shoulders from everything I've seen and read. + Instincts to force fumbles and bat passes. + Active in pursuit and has a consistent and decent motor.
Negatives: - He's not a quarterback - Injury concerns with ankle (Did this lower this production or was it laziness? Is he like Clowney or Bosa in this regard?) - Needs to improve run defense - Looked poor against elite college competition this year (looked good last year vs Cam Robinson)
yeah its either a kings ransom for the first pick or you pick garrett or maybe allen but either way its a no brainer to me to pick him even if I do worry about his hand technique somewhat.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
Just some advice, be skeptical of negative rumors you hear about any prospect who's highly ranked. Some of these sports reporters get asked by scouts and personnel to put that false-negative information out there so the guy they want slips.
he's gotta be the pick IMO. you could maybe make an argument for Allen, but nobody else is close to having Garrett's upside
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
In the Joe Thomas thread that got side tracked onto the subject of Myles Garrett..predator16 made what I thought was a very good post on the subject of Garrett. I hope he does not mind me posting it here...
predator16...I am not the biggest proponent of Garrett. I know what he is and boy is it rare and would be great to have but he isn't perfect. I haven't seen the fighting instinct I like in my edges that make them great technicians and ferocious finishers. It's one of those things that can't be taught. It's reactionary like a qb reading a d. It's the killer instinct. Doesn't mean he doesn't have it but in my hours and hours of watching him it doesn't seem that way. Also doesn't mean he can't be a probowler without it. He definitely can. And no that is not connected to the people who say he has a cold motor. That is not a concern to me. I say this for those who aren't as well versed in him as I am.
Now to put this in terms the less intense scouts of us will understand. Myles Garrett is the LeBron James of the nfl. Not LeBron now but pre draft lebron. Myles is the closest to a perfect prospect I've ever seen at his position. And yes that includes luck.
His build is perfect. His burst is perfect. His speed to power is perfect. His character is perfect. His work ethic is perfect. If you could build a person to play edge for you it would be myles head to toe. No one has ever compared. Not even the freak whom people like to compare. Some players have one or two of these attributes. I've never seen this many in one player. And then he's productive too?
Now because he's close to perfect doesn't mean he is. His run defense improved greatly this year to near top at his position he needs to continue that. His hand work is raw and his biggest concern imo though most out of college are. Barnett is a freak in his own right in that regard. Most polished rusher I've ever studied.
Simple fact is the nfl has never seen a defensive prospect this close to not just perfect but insane. Before myles I didn't even think someone as large as him would EVER move like that. And he plays the 2nd most important position. He may have flaws but when he is on there isn't a single player in the nfl EVER that could go from RE to the qb faster. Think about that. Ever. And he's not just a good kid but a transcendent human being. He inspires people with his character.
Another comparison. I'm sure you all remember Calvin johnson? Freakiest athlete I'd ever seen. 6'5 235 4.35 40. Agile. Powerful. Quiet lunch pail type. Myles isn't unlike him (different positions of course). Except myles is primed to pull the same combine numbers at 265 that Calvin had at 235. Can you imagine Calvin johnson being a pass rusher but with 30 extra lbs? Myles is insane.
People are more than welcome to have their opinions on passing on him or trading down, taking a qb etc. But do it while knowing what I've now said. A lot of people don't seem to understand what he is so I hope this helps. link
I am not the biggest proponent of Garrett. I know what he is and boy is it rare and would be great to have but he isn't perfect. I haven't seen the fighting instinct I like in my edges that make them great technicians and ferocious finishers. It's one of those things that can't be taught. It's reactionary like a qb reading a d. It's the killer instinct. Doesn't mean he doesn't have it but in my hours and hours of watching him it doesn't seem that way.
At least one person saw what I saw when studying video of Garrett. Helluva athlete and football player when he "puts out". At times, "the effort" just was not there. A lack of the "killer instinct" might be a good description of what I saw watching video of Garrett's 2016 season.
Garrett did not play to his full potential in 2016 and you really notice it when you watch and compare his 2015 season to 2016.
I know all about the ankle injury and I considered it when judging his 2016 season. I studied his games before the injury and his games toward the end of the season and I could clearly see, his desire to make the extra effort, was lacking.
Someone asked me if I had any idea what Garrett's responsibilities were, playing his position....well, I do have some experience playing OLB...I played the position for 3 years in HS and I know at times Garrett has outside contain responsibility when the play goes the other way..he is only supposed to pursue when he is sure the play is not a reverse or throw back pass or some gadget play. To the average fan, it might look like he is being lazy or just standing around, but that is not the case..he is doing his job. I recognize that Garrett is doing his job by staying home and not pursuing.
Garrett's responsibilities change depending on where he is lined up. Sometimes he had DE responsibilities and other times he had OLB responsibility.
I'm not sure what Garrett's issue was in 2016, but his play dropped off in part because of the injury and missing 3 games, but I also saw a decline in his effort at times. Usually you see a player get better each season....
...for example, I watched Solomn Thomas' 2015 season and you could see him progress throughout the season. By the end of Thomas' 2015 season, he did not look like the same player..his aggression increased and you could see his desire to get in on every tackle.
When 2016 rolled around Solomn Thomas kept progressing.."he gives everything he has on every play"....I cannot say the same thing about Myles Garrett.
Garrett is an outstanding player who has room to improve, if he wants to...maybe, if Myles Garrett meets Gregg Williams, Garrett's lack of effort issue will solved.
If our FO has a problem with Garret and all I'm saying is if, would it be that big a deal if we took Solomon Thomas #1 if they felt he was the best player? It seems like from what I've read he can be as good as anyone in this draft.
If the Browns are not sold on Garrett being the first pick, other teams would love to have the opportunity pick him. The Browns #1 pick has trade value if the Browns are interested in trading down.
IMO, trading down just a few slots would still give the Browns a chance to select top talent, such as Solomon Thomas. The difficult part is finding that trading partner who is positioned in a draft slot that would allow the Browns a chance to land one of their draft targets.
Solomon Thomas will likely be rated somewhere in the top ten, but I do not see him worthy of the first overall pick of the 2017 draft.
mac - you are right. This was an excellent post by pred. I hadn't seen it and appreciate you bumping it over.
I see what you are referring to as lack of motor. wonder how much of that was because of the ankle because I don't really see that in his 2015 tape.
I like the way pred describes him. I wonder how much of what some people refer to as lack of motor really references that lack of killer instinct.
I totally see and agree with that observation by pred, though I was having trouble coming up with exactly what it is about Myles that I found concerning. I that that hits it on the head. Ray Lewis the athlete was a good player. It was that killer instinct he possessed that made him great.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
I see what you are referring to as lack of motor. wonder how much of that was because of the ankle because I don't really see that in his 2015 tape.
I like the way pred describes him. I wonder how much of what some people refer to as lack of motor really references that lack of killer instinct.
Jester...I had the same concern about Garrett's lack of a motor, at times. I watched his videos in order and noticed the drop off in his hustle (at times) before he was injured in the 3rd qtr of his 4th game against Arkansas.
I've wondered if Garrett went into his junior season with a goal of protecting himself from injury. Maybe that is why he dialed back his effort, not wanting to get hurt..and already knowing he was projected as the top pick in the draft...who knows?
The scary part is, how good could he be if he had a motor like Solomon Thomas?
Physically, he has the ability to be Lawrence Taylor We just need to find a way to mean him up. I think if anyone can do it, it would be Greg Williams. Or Mike Singletary - who is he coaching for now?
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
I totally agree with JT....we need a defensive player at #1 and we need to bolster the pass rush. Get Garrett, sign TJ McDonald/Tony Jefferson and Trumaine Johnson and our defense will be pretty damn scary.
Some believe Tyrod is no better than RG3 but, I disagree. I know less about Jimmy G. so, he makes the trade more of a gamble in my opinion. Nevertheless, make a move for Tyrod or, potentially Jimmy G. and it we could instantly improve our team.
Otherwise, move up with the 12 and take the QB they are most enamored with. Garrett, however, has to be #1.
Also to expand on what I said I know a lot of people don't see him as a high energy type of guy when the play goes away but that's not what I meant by killer instinct. I don't deny what people say about his effort but to me it isn't a concern. If he was at maybe any other position sure but I'm drafting him to rush and stop the run when it comes to him. I also don't believe he'll get away with dogging it backside in the nfl though he will be asked to contain cutbacks alot from his position.
When I say killer instinct I mean something else. I'm sure some of you have fought before? Like actually fought. MMA, boxing, martial arts etc. Football is a game of adrenaline. Certain positions require a calm relaxed high when under pressure (Lt, wr, qb, cb) and certain positions require a carnal reaction(s,lb, RB, edge).
I keep coming back to Barnett. Not to hype him but they are good to compare. Barnett is a killer. His reaction to a blocker is that of a fighter. It's natural. He flows and counters with ease. Myles just doesn't do that. It isn't something people talk about and it isn't the no1 trait needed but it's something I notice. You can learn technique but some guys are just wired to react. It also comes into play as he closes the play. Barnett is vicious and relentless. Garrett is explosive but calculated (might not be a bad thing. If he was relentless he might miss ALOT with his speed idk). He doesn't take a lot of risks and takes what the blocker gives him whereas Barnett manipulates his opponents.
It's a little thing easily missed that isn't necessary to be great but it is important and why I really don't think either of these guys will bust (barring injury). That said it's not teachable. You can explain and show garrett how to pursuit a play you can't teach him to be carnal. That is my only concern with myles albeit minor and in no way does it mean he can't be a probowler.
Like I said I'll be happy to take myles. It's a total win. But I like Barnett. Maybe I'll be wrong. I'll happily admit it if it happens. But if I was making the calls it would be a trade down for barnett. The added value and the fact I don't think they'll have much different careers overall does it for me but I don't know anyone who agrees with me lol.
Physically, he has the ability to be Lawrence Taylor We just need to find a way to mean him up. I think if anyone can do it, it would be Greg Williams. Or Mike Singletary - who is he coaching for now?
The draft forum gets much better once position threads are put up so people can't discuss new things instead of re-hashing and over thinking the first pick.
I think there's a 85% chance we take Garrett and then start thinking about #12. If someone calls with an outrageous offer, we listen, but it has to be insane and we can't drop out of the top 5.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
This draft is one of the best in a long time to build up a defense. I hope we can two of them.
I would be fine with Garrett and Derek for example being our DE for the next decade.
I would be fine with trading back and landing a Soloman and Derek combo too.
I would be fine with trading back and having Hooker and either Derek or Soloman with him. Hooker will be the next Ed Reed.
I don't feel the need to say we can only draft Myles Garrett. I like him a lot but honestly if we can move back and still land Derek or Soloman I won't be upset in the least.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
Vers fwiw you will never find me making anything up, building up, ripping or trying to convince anyone so I hope that was not directed at me since I posted last. While I do like Barnett a lot I have never really hated or loved any prospect. Every one of them has faults. Imy not really vested in single players as I am the process of the draft.
pred, it wasn't directed towards you. I don't do that stupid quick reply thing very often. I actually "liked" your post on the other thread and replied to it w/something like "Awesome post."
I am just sick of guys who don't watch much football and then make these strong arguments. I have no problem w/guys who don't watch much football, but how in the hell can they argue so strongly?
The tearing down of Garrett is ignorant in my mind. It's similar to the Jimmy G ripping. In fact, it's some of the same posters. They don't do the research and them make these strong arguments.
pred, it wasn't directed towards you. I don't do that stupid quick reply thing very often. I actually "liked" your post on the other thread and replied to it w/something like "Awesome post."
I am just sick of guys who don't watch much football and then make these strong arguments. I have no problem w/guys who don't watch much football, but how in the hell can they argue so strongly?
The tearing down of Garrett is ignorant in my mind. It's similar to the Jimmy G ripping. In fact, it's some of the same posters. They don't do the research and them make these strong arguments.
It's beyond old, pred....
I don't agree with you often..lol, but here i do..Garrett is a generation player ...people looking for any reason to dog him..its dumb..dude is the best prospect in YEARS. Ask yourself...would you rather have Julius Peppers or Nick Perry..because thats basically the ceiling for Garrett or Barnett respectively. I also think signing Jimmy G makes more sense than wasting a high pick on these Carson Wentz/Andy Dalton clones
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If Garret is in Peppers class, then you take him and don't look back.
Agreed completely...If he is indeed that superstar DE then you take him in an instant...and we can help inside in this draft as well...As when you can generate and apply pressure to a QB with just your front four...then that changes the face of an entire defense...makes the secondary look fantastic and you can do multiple looks and fronts with your LBs...
This years QB class is imho the worst class since the year Cam Newton came out...2011 I believe, I dont have a 1st round grade on any of the QBs this year...I believe Watson is the best of the bunch, but even he suits me as a mid round 2nd pick...Qbs are by far the most reached position, and a very high bust rate due to the fact as GMs reach for probably the biggest need. I will never select a QB in the first round whom has less than 21 (forget the exact number) starts, read an article a couple years back stating something staggering like 80-90% of college QBs without an X amount of starts flop or disappoint horribly (Cade McCown, Akili, Couch, Russell, Boller, Carr, Gabbert) Something to think about with Mitch Trubisky...Kizer is a 4th round QB in my eyes
Fair enough. I agree. I try to distance myself when I talk about garrett because even though I'm critical of every prospect and disect every minute detail it often comes off negative when really I'm just creating perspective and comparison.
And whoever just said Barnett was Nick perry if he's lucky, why? Have your own opinion by all means but at least explain. I've probably done the most homework on these 2 combined and I'd go with cameron wake or James Harrison for Barnett. Perry couldn't even pull 10 sacks without a double team at USC.
That is fair. For some reason ever since Tamba was drafted I always forget he exists. I could try to list every edge in the league and he'd never come up. Strange because he's an animal. That's at least as good a comp as wake. Maybe somewhere between?
See. That's what I'm talking about in the "Move Down Scenarios" thread.
What we think of Garrett and Barnett is meaningless. It's what the Browns think that matters.
We gotta line these 2 up and get Williams input. If Barnett is Sooooooo close to Garrett we need to listen to offers.
Maybe Tennessee covets Garrett? Miami did it for Dion Jordan not long ago.
If we target Barnett who we believe is every bit as solid, we gotta make the trade. We'd for sure get 5 and 18. Plus some.
We take our coveted player in Barnett at 5.
Predator? You've said ALOT of good stuff here. HOW CLOSE is Barnett to Garrett in your mind? Would YOU move to 5 and be happy with Barnett?
If we landed 18, I'd immediately be on the phone calling EVERYONE from 6 down to move back UP for whoever we like between Adams and Hooker. And they DON'T get 18.
At 18 I'm taking the BEST CB on my board as long as he's ranked in OUR Top 20 BPA.
Damn man. We come out of DAY ONE with:
Barnett Hooker/Adams Tabor/Lattimore
All levels of the Defense improved massively including Collins.
I think we'd be CRAZY to pass that up for Garrett only.
Oh, and Garoppolo is our new QB.
That's what I call AGGRESSIVE drafting and we've got the picks to do it.
We'd be the talk of the draft!!!!!!!!
Let me in that damn Draft Room. I'll put the Browns on the MAP again. Lol
Physically, he has the ability to be Lawrence Taylor We just need to find a way to mean him up. I think if anyone can do it, it would be Greg Williams. Or Mike Singletary - who is he coaching for now?
This the the NFL. THE highest level there is. If he goldbricks it he'll get run over. If he doesn't like getting run over he'll get mean or he'll have to take his ball and go home. If he's the pick I feel pretty confident Williams will either rev him up or send him home pouting after every practice. In short, man up or be a bust. Do you desire to be considered one of the best son?
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I could try to list every edge in the league and he'd never come up. Strange because he's an animal. That's at least as good a comp as wake. Maybe somewhere between?![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
