Its their opinion Vers from watching some Game tapes, not hi-lights. I don't know why they must conform to your opinion and you ridicule them for not doing so???
Back to the thread.
The more I think about it and try to look at it logically, I don't think we will pick a QB unless of course somebody just overwhelmingly WOWs Hue and our FO.
But as it stands now I see only two possible picks. Garrett or Allen - do we wish to collapse the pocket from the Belly or go at it from the edge. Both would Improve the surrounding players. We could get the double team off of Shelton and create havoc inside? Garret would make a blitzer like Collins on an overload into a hero or Garrett will get the accolades.
There has been talk of taking plays off. But that is college and does that translate to the Negative of LAZY. After their Rookie season they will be under the NFL conditioning in 2018...Every Rookie will hit the "Wall".
Now is he Lazy like Big Money? A lot of the lazy who don't make it had POT as a variable.
I think that will not be an Issue with Garrett the more I look at it the more I think Garrett is our MAN! Then there is the TEAM build thingy.
If we take Allen can we get a stud Edge Rusher at 12 where the effect on the edge will still be there. If we take Garrett will there be a stud DT in this draft.
Then there is the benefit of a drop back of one or two slots and get our Target player with more in the kitty.
Well enough from me - got to get ready for Church!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Physically, he has the ability to be Lawrence Taylor We just need to find a way to mean him up. I think if anyone can do it, it would be Greg Williams. Or Mike Singletary - who is he coaching for now?
This the the NFL. THE highest level there is. If he goldbricks it he'll get run over. If he doesn't like getting run over he'll get mean or he'll have to take his ball and go home. If he's the pick I feel pretty confident Williams will either rev him up or send him home pouting after every practice. In short, man up or be a bust. Do you desire to be considered one of the best son?
I have only watched the game where he played Bama and didn't have his best game. I have not watched other games but have seen the highlights. I can't speak to how great his measurables or other game tape looks.
And I am not knocking him - I'll just say there is a world of difference between playing mean and vicious than going out there and playing hard. I don't think the Browns have a mean, vicious player on the roster ... or if he's there they were (previously) coached to not play that way. I did read a scouting report on Solomon Thomas and the first thing that jumped out was that the report said that Thomas plays mean and angry. Have to tell you that I like that a lot - but it isn't a deal breaker. I don't know that Von Miller plays mean and he is as good as it gets at OLB. JJ Watt plays intense - but I don't know that it's mean or vicious.... maybe I'd call him simply driven.
Bottom line when it comes to Garret - there is nothing I've seen or read that would prevent me from taking him #1. I don't think it's even a close call. . . . If someone comes with a King's ransom to trade for that spot to take him (or a QB) I would absolutely take it if it was probable we could get Adams or Hooker AND Barnett or Thomas AND a QB (Garoppolo or whichever talent Hue likes most in this year's draft) AND a future first next year.
Last edited by mgh888; 01/29/1710:41 AM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Its their opinion Vers from watching some Game tapes, not hi-lights. I don't know why they must conform to your opinion and you ridicule them for not doing so???
Bingo, we have a winner!
Some are just watching the highlights that give the viewer just one side of a players performance, nothing but the good side..that is not how to evaluate any player if you want an honest and complete picture of the performance.
Just watching highlights is only going to show 5-10% of an individual complete performance..and that leads to these opinions where individuals have nothing but good things to say.
In some cases, board members become upset when someone who has watched and judged entire games and comment on the good and the bad they see.
In Garrett's case, I watched two seasons worth of his games..his entire games..not just the highlights.
Hey, Dave: Thanks! The more people I talk to, the more I am convinced that the Browns won't take Garrett No. 1 overall. I've had too many talent evaluators question his motor, hustle and work ethic. As Gregg Williams said at the Senior Bowl "I'm a 'motorcoach.'' Effort and toughness are high on his list, and Garrett might not have the consistent tenacity the Browns are seeking. The only way they'll take him No. 1 is if they feel Williams can bring out the beast in him, and keep it out. But right now, I'm not feeling it at No. 1.
So if the consensus by a large margin think Garrett is a sure fire # 1 , you can Bet the Browns will pass on him .. Facts prove that the Browns can't Draft !
Hey, Mary Kay: You seriously must consider changing your view on the first overall pick. Myles Garrett is the best defensive end that I have ever seen! He blows up any blocker, is super quick and has all the moves. Teams almost always ran away from his side, and they had to have a special game plan just for him. Super talent! Next year's QB class is ridiculously good, wait a year with Cody Kessler and build a monster defense. Love your reporting, read you everyday from the South. Keep up the good work. -- Respectfully; Dave Ripley, Greenville, South Carolina
Hey, Dave: Thanks! The more people I talk to, the more I am convinced that the Browns won't take Garrett No. 1 overall. I've had too many talent evaluators question his motor, hustle and work ethic. As Gregg Williams said at the Senior Bowl "I'm a 'motorcoach.'' Effort and toughness are high on his list, and Garrett might not have the consistent tenacity the Browns are seeking. The only way they'll take him No. 1 is if they feel Williams can bring out the beast in him, and keep it out. But right now, I'm not feeling it at No. 1.
I know we all do not think much of Mary Kay.. She has never seen a QB she doesn't like.. LOL .. but she still has more success to people with info than we do. Wait and see I guess...
And I am not knocking him - I'll just say there is a world of difference between playing mean and vicious than going out there and playing hard. I don't think the Browns have a mean, vicious player on the roster ... or if he's there they were (previously) coached to not play that way. I did read a scouting report on Solomon Thomas and the first thing that jumped out was that the report said that Thomas plays mean and angry. Have to tell you that I like that a lot - but it isn't a deal breaker. I don't know that Von Miller plays mean and he is as good as it gets at OLB. JJ Watt plays intense - but I don't know that it's mean or vicious.... maybe I'd call him simply driven.
That is a very good point. Ive talked multiple times on this and you guys have liked it so to piggy back on what you just mentioned I don't think Garrett is dissimilar to how von plays in a more calculated Manor than vicious.
Vers you've said you aren't referring to me but everything these guys are saying is stemming from me. So can I ask you something simple? You love James Harrison. Imo he is the embodiment of what I mean when I say vicious, relentless, killer instinct etc etc. Not to relate that to his big hits, attitude or views as a dirty player but in the way he reacts on the field as a passrusher. Do you deny that in the manner I just described many pass rushers play differently or just generally less aggressive and ferocious?
Many pass rushers do not have what I refer to as killer instinct but are still widely successful and it's not like I'm trying to say it's black and white. It's definitely to different degrees. Jj and von definitely don't play as intensely as James imo and to even more of a degree guys like jpp, cam jordan, etc etc. I simply mean to say they have different ways they play and while you can be wildly successful without that extreme of an animalistic nature I think it's a great indicator of a prospective successful pass rusher if you do have it. I find Barnett to be in line with guys like Harrison, Suggs, Porter, wake, Jared allen. Just smack you in the soul never give up type guys.
And again as I've said I'd still take garrett over Barnett. I just like discussing their differences and I love guys like Harrison and Suggs who play like fighters.
Hey, Dave: Thanks! The more people I talk to, the more I am convinced that the Browns won't take Garrett No. 1 overall. I've had too many talent evaluators question his motor, hustle and work ethic. As Gregg Williams said at the Senior Bowl "I'm a 'motorcoach.'' Effort and toughness are high on his list, and Garrett might not have the consistent tenacity the Browns are seeking. The only way they'll take him No. 1 is if they feel Williams can bring out the beast in him, and keep it out. But right now, I'm not feeling it at No. 1.
Concerning this... "I've had too many talent evaluators question his motor, hustle and work ethic"...
I saw and questioned those same qualities watching the 2016 videos.
There is no doubt MG is an outstanding athlete and football player and I'm not trying to run him down. I'm doing my best to give an honest opinion of his play from a neutral position. I like his play at times but he could be much more productive if he could rev up his motor.
The Browns coaches and scouts might believe that there is nothing in Garrett's game that can't be fixed and make him the Browns first pick...if they do, I will take a wait and see position with my fingers crossed that Garrett will not disappoint the fans.
Predator? You've said ALOT of good stuff here. HOW CLOSE is Barnett to Garrett in your mind? Would YOU move to 5 and be happy with Barnett?
I think they are closer than most but it's very difficult to explain as they are just very different. I will do my best.
Garrett has the upside and the floor. Even in the worst scenario he is valuable as an athlete and without injury is a starter his entire career imo.
Barnett, while having a lower floor and ceiling I think has a better chance of a being a consistent stud in all aspects. At this point it's all projection so I refuse to talk certainties. It will truly comes down to these young men and their situation and a little luck because they both are my top 2 rushers since von.
That said to give a better view I can try to put a face on what I think could happen.
Garrett at his worst imo is JPP. Inconsistent but a dynamic athlete and pretty average as a run defender. If that's your floor that's why you are the no 1 Pick. Obviously his ceiling is to be the greatest ever. I don't think it likely but one can dream.
Barnett has the lower floor but given his technical prowess and tenacity I think it's less likely that he ends up there. His ceiling I think I've said a couple times now should be somewhere around Tamba Hali and Harrison but I also think he's more likely to achieve his ceiling.
Ok so finally like I've said many times I really believe both prospects will be somebodies in the nfl. But I also am a believer in trade downs. Most aren't and I understand why. So yes I would absolutely aquire the insane positive value and take Barnett as opposed to just garrett himself. Though I do not find Tennessee likely. They are a few holes from a really great roster and edge is not the highest priority for them. The only way it's worth giving up garrett is if someone wants a qb. Otherwise we won't get as much in a trade and it will not be worth passing garrett. My most likely trade would come from the Jets. Their staff is under the most pressure. Anything can happen between then and now but if they came up for a qb I think we could get their 2018 1st and 2nd and maybe a 3rd this year.
I can understand that. I've literally never been happy with the picks made. Some eh. Though I have been ecstatic at most of the trades we just didn't capitalize. I wasn't even happy with Joe. I was very young and very enamoured with AP. I hope I'll never be as mad as I was the ngata year.
That said if we pass on myles for anyone but hooker or Barnett off a trade down I will easily cause more damage than the ngata year.
Ps that was a lie. I was stoked we got mitch Schwartz
Gee mac, I have watched every moment of every game Garrett has played and all in slow motion.
If you had, and you knew what you were looking at, you would have noticed Garrett's lack of effort at times.
You either did not watch entire games or you were so in love with Garrett's highlights that failed to notice his negatives.
I invite anyone to watch Garrett's game against Bama and how they chose to block Garrett. Cam Robinson dominated his one on one match up with Garrett. Garrett still had a good game, credited with 3.5 tackles for loss and 0 sacks. When Bama tried to trap Garrett they missed the block. Throughout the season, Garrett pilled up some impressive stats when teams tried to trap block Garrett, but one on one against good OTs, Garrett struggled.
ANOTHER good game to watch is the last game of Garrett's college career, in the Texas Bowl against Kansas State. The primary blocker across from Garrett was a "freshman" (red shirt) #74.
vers..as for your claim that I only started watching Garrett in the last few weeks..WRONG, again. Back in Nov when the subject of who the Browns should draft in 2017, I commented that individuals need to watch Garrett's entire games, not just the highlights.
I have not said that the Browns should not draft Garrett with the first pick, mainly because I know his next coach will not put up with his loafing. What is wrong with JG is fixable with good coaching and it just so happens that the Browns just hired a coach who specializes in the areas MG needs addressed..stuff like motivation and aggressiveness...funny how that worked out.
vers..just because I'm not in love with Garrett like you are, does not mean he is not a very good player. Giving an objective opinion does not mean I'm trying to change anyone's mind about who they prefer.
Myles Garrett has flaws that must be addressed at the Pro level..but every player in the draft has flaws, so don't get your undies in a bunch, ok.
I'm sure I am going to be back and forth on MG as our #1 pick...lol.
Its like this is the first draft of our New era that I am looking at with some knowledge that we have the #1 pick. 1999 and 2000 I watch afar cause I had my heart broken and didn't jump in the water that fast. 2001 was my first day on the Internet and draft involvement.
But overall #1...our pick of the best player to turn our fortunes around. Is it QB? is it DE, is it DT? is it a Trade back for more impact players?
Again this draft is deep in Defensive talent. Getting around 5 in the first two rounds. with 3 Firsts and 3 seconds plus more for next year...could turn this franchise around.
Is there a Bad decision. I'm staying none committal because I don't think there is a bad decision as long as there is a plan behind it.
As long as we do our due diligence. eliminate possible negatives? Be sure of the future successes!
I just cannot wait for FA and Draft to be over and we are on our way to a 2017 season. Who am I to say...oh they didn't pick so n so boy am I PO'd. I will look at our personnel on the whole and buy in as normal. As long as its not nonsense.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Mike Mayock to Browns: Don't take a QB at No. 1, Don't Trade Down
By: Luke Easterling | 22 hours ago
After a 1-15 season, the Cleveland Browns currently hold the No. 1 overall pick in the 2017 NFL draft.
Last year, Cleveland owned the No. 2 pick, but elected to trade down and stock up on extra selections instead of taking a potential franchise quarterback in Carson Wentz.
Will the Browns trade down again this year, or pull the trigger on a top passer?
According to NFL Network’s Mike Mayock, the answer is none of the above.
During NFLN’s broadcast of the 2017 Reese’s Senior Bowl, Mayock made it clear who the Browns should take at the top of this year’s draft (via NFL.com):
If you’re a Cleveland Browns fan and you’ve got the first overall pick, root for them to take Myles Garrett from Texas A&M. He’s got length, he’s got get-off, he’s explosive off the edge. This kid’s got everything you want. Spin move, relentless, can set the edge against the run. At the No. 1 overall pick, if I’m the Cleveland Browns, I don’t see a quarterback there, I don’t want to trade down. I want to get a difference-maker right now.
You won’t find much argument on this one. The Browns already have a pair of picks in each of the first two rounds of this year’s draft, and Garrett is easily the consensus top overall prospect in the class.
There’s still no clear-cut front-runner in this year’s quarterback class, and certainly not one that should make the Browns pass up a rare talent like Garrett. Cleveland also spent a third-round pick last year on Cody Kessler, and still seem committed to giving Robert Griffin III a chance to fight for the starting job.
For many different reasons, Mayock’s on the money with this one. The Browns should take Garrett at No. 1 and not give it a second thought.
I think it all depends on the offer. For instance if they offer 2 firsts just to move down within the top 7 I can work with that because there is a LOT of defensive talent in this draft.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
I think it all depends on the offer. For instance if they offer 2 firsts just to move down within the top 7 I can work with that because there is a LOT of defensive talent in this draft.
Just confirming, when you say 2 firsts, you mean two ADDITIONAL firsts on top of the 1st we'd move back to, right?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
Cleveland Browns should take defensive end Garrett, not a quarterback, says NFL Network’s Mayock
By Jeff Schudel, The News-Herald & The Morning Journal POSTED: 01/30/17, 3:18 PM EST | UPDATED: 2 HRS AGO link
Browns Executive Vice President of Football Operations Sashi Brown, recovering from back surgery, can sit back and get ready for enough free advice to make actually preparing for what to do with the first pick on April 27 unnecessary.
The latest to weigh in is draft analyst Mike Mayock of NFL Network. Mayock says the Browns shouldn’t mess around by reaching for a quarterback or think about trading down — an option Coach Hue Jackson discussed with reporters last week during practices for the Senior Bowl.
“If you’re a Cleveland Browns fan and you’ve got the first overall pick, root for them to take (defensive end) Myles Garrett from Texas A&M,” Mayock said on Jan. 28 during the Senior Bowl telecast from Mobile, Ala. “He’s got length, he’s got get-off, he’s explosive off the edge. This kid’s got everything you want. Spin move, relentless, can set the edge against the run. At the No. 1 overall pick, if I’m the Cleveland Browns, I don’t see a quarterback there. I don’t want to trade down. I want to get a difference-maker right now.”
Daniel Jeremiah of NFL.com and Mel Kiper of ESPN are still on the Myles Garrett train. But there is at least one analyst out there choosing the road less traveled.
Chad Reuter, a draft analyst at NFL.com, has the Browns picking quarterback Deshaun Watson of Clemson with the first pick and Alabama inside linebacker Reuben Foster with the 12th pick in the first round.
“Hue Jackson will love Watson’s physical attributes and his leadership skills,” Reuter wrote in his mock draft.
Reuter is definitely in the minority, however. Rob Rang and Dane Brugler of NFLDraftScout.com both have the Browns taking Garrett with the first pick, which the Browns own because its 1-15 record was the worst in the NFL in 2016.
“Freakish athleticism and body control for his size,” Brugler wrote in his scouting report. “Sudden first step, but the quickness of his second and third steps are just as effective, using long, strong strides. Loose-hipped with the elastic flexibility to bend, spin and get underneath blockers. Fluid movements to drop and handle space.”
Brugler compares Garrett to DeMarcus Ware of the Denver Broncos. Ware in nine years with the Cowboys and three with the Broncos has 138.5 career sacks.
“Garrett is longer with more growth potential, but he and Ware are both outstanding athletes off the edge who have the savvy and natural gifts to be remembered as NFL greats,” Brugler wrote
Garrett, 6-foot-5, 270 pounds, had 31 sacks in three years at Texas A&M. He decided to leave school with one year of eligibility remaining. His draft stock could not get higher than it is now.
Lance Zierlein, another analyst for NFL.com, in his scouting report, says Garrett “could stand to give more consistent effort, but overall has high praise for him.
“Elite edge rusher who possesses rare explosiveness and the fluid-movement skills and agility of an NBA shooting guard,”
Zierlein wrote. “Good size, but he’s never likely going to be a hold-your-ground run defender, and might be best suited as an outside linebacker. However, his ability to explode into the backfield through a gap or around the edge gives him disruptive potential on every snap.
“Garrett still needs to fine-tune his pass-rush strategy and could stand to give more consistent effort from the start of the snap until the whistle. But his pass-rush production and athletic traits point toward an all-pro career.”
The Browns had 26 sacks in 2016. Only the Raiders with 25 had fewer. The Lions also had 26 sacks. Despite their low numbers the Raiders (12-4) and Lions (9-7) made the playoffs in 2016.
I think it all depends on the offer. For instance if they offer 2 firsts just to move down within the top 7 I can work with that because there is a LOT of defensive talent in this draft.
Just confirming, when you say 2 firsts, you mean two ADDITIONAL firsts on top of the 1st we'd move back to, right?
Depends on how far the move is but it would range from 2 first to 3 firsts to move up to the #1 spot. For instance if its the 49ers swapping first could be done at the cost of first round pick but most likely would be for a 2nd round pick.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
Mike Williams isn't even the best WR in this draft.
Everything I have read has said he is. I don't even know of anyone who is a close second. Have you read something new to change the overwhelming consensus about him?
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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