DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Gregg Williams part 2

for those of us who wish to continue our talks on Williams.
I thought I would start with these two topics.

Gregg Williams praises Jamie Collins, expects Browns to be busy in free agency

Posted by Zac Jackson on January 26, 2017, 7:54 PM EST
ST. LOUIS, MO - AUGUST 8: St. Louis Rams Defensive Coordinator Gregg Williams watches warmups prior to preseason game against the New Orleans Saints at the Edward Jones Dome on August 8, 2014 in St. Louis, Missouri. (Photo by Michael B. Thomas/Getty Images)
Getty Images
New Browns defensive coordinator Gregg Williams has high praise for linebacker Jamie Collins, who signed a new deal with the team this week, and thinks the team will be “aggressive” in adding pieces when free agency opens in March.

Williams and the Browns staff are coaching in this week’s Senior Bowl, and in an interview with 92.3 The Fan in Cleveland Williams said Collins is a special talent and an important piece.

“The players want to see that we get it as an organization, as a staff, as a personnel department keeping the best guys,” Williams said. “Unless there are problems off the field, why don’t you work hard to keep your own guys? This is a great message to the locker room. Guys respect Jamie.

“I’m a better coach when I have players like that. He may be one of the better players I’ve had a chance to coach for a long time. I can’t wait to get a chance to coach him. I’m so excited about signing him.”

The Browns acquired Collins in a trade with the Patriots just before last season’s trade deadline, and having him signed six weeks before free agency opens is a sign the Browns prioritized keeping him. Thursday, Williams said he expects that to be just the first of a bunch of moves the Browns make in an effort to improve. They also hold the No. 1 pick and No. 12 pick in the first round of this year’s draft.

“One of the things [Browns owner] Jimmy Haslam and [head coach] Hue Jackson and I talked about when we sat and talked about this going into this venture together is we were going to be aggressive not only in scheme but in personnel too,” Williams said. “We have to do a good job in everything from coaching to playing to acquiring personnel and I’d be shocked if we weren’t aggressive in doing that.

“I’ve been very impressed with some of the people doing the evaluations too. We’ll get into that. I really haven’t had much time to get into that so far but we’ll get into that over the next couple of weeks.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...in-free-agency/

if they talked about being aggressive in acquiring personal when they first sat down together...hmmm sounds like we might be making a push to make a real jump this year?...why not we have to cap to spend on it...

I am still on board with Garrett, then move up if needed to get Hooker and go all in on getting Gilmore CB from the Bills

“From an attitude standpoint, they’re never going to play for anybody that’s going to let them play more attacking, more physical, more aggressive than me. I’ll back them up,” he said. “I’ve only coached two or three guys in the league that I’ve ever had to put my hand on and back up. My whole life I’ve been trying to speed up your decisions and speed up your toughness and get you to play harder, get you to play tougher, get you to play meaner, and so that will be the way.”


- See more at: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/g...h.Umr1BpWy.dpuf

I have been missing this kind of football...
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I noticed there was also some debate on his statement about not needing to watch film of players..

I took it as he did not need to watch film on the guys he was coaching in the senior bowl only. as he already seen them up close and "put hands" on them...

so maybe his focus is on watching film on the players who did not play in the senior bowl...

my 2 cents on that.

The Browns and many of their fans are like Elizabeth Taylor. She was married 8 times.

The honeymoon period is GREAT, but sustainability is a dirty word.

I am the one who brought that up. I was willing to let it go, but apparently you are not.

So, let me reiterate..............he is PAID to do his job. I have ZERO problems w/him preferring "putting his hands on them" [provided that it's figurative rather than literal...LOL] but I have an issue w/him not taking the time to also study their tape.

Y'all can spin all you want, but I don't think I am wrong about that in the slightest.

I firmly believe after going 1-15 Hue laid it down to Haslam that he HAS to have significant clout and influence in the draft room and in FA. I am sure he also discussed his plans for defense and going after Williams and that he too must be trusted to have significant influence. I feel this way with various pressers and things being said by HJ/Haslam and now GW. Not undermining Sashi, Berry or DePodesta but, clearly listening to the guy coaching the players who they repeatedly say they have the greatest respect for and that they believe is the right HC.

IF we are to right this ship it has to begin with good drafting but, making a splash on the right player/s available at FA. This is arguably our most important offseason in the history of the team. We have to get it right. Signing Collins was the first step but, I won't be surprised if we do make moves for Trumaine Johnson and McDonald simply because they can bring the GW system into CLE and immediately make an impact and help the others learn.

GW can target the defensive needs while HJ can target his QB in either the draft or FA/trades.

Come March 9 things will get pretty interesting around here.

Yeah, I get the feeling Hue made a huge power play and that analytics are probably going to take a back seat to what Hue wants.

That could be a good thing. It could be a bad thing. We'll have to see how it plays out.

oh I not disagreeing Vers lol...I think he should watch as much as he can...turning us around should be taken seriously. that was just my take on his statement.

No problem, dawg.

That's too true.

Analytics aren't going anywhere. The amount that people believe the Browns are driven by analytics is wholly overblown.

To wit: The Browns have one of the biggest traditional scouting staffs, if not the biggest, in the NFL. These are guys that have been in the NFL for many, many years.

It's not like the Browns are plugging stats into a computer and seeing what the computer spits out. What they are doing is combining traditional scouting methods with perhaps a few formula's that are common among successful players and going from there.

All that is to say if Hue really did say he wants less of the whole picture and instead just wants the scouts take, then I feel like the Browns are not using every available opportunity to make themselves better.

Good post. I don't know how wrong or right you are, but you didn't bore me silly, and provided food for thought.

I don't think there was ever a power struggle to begin with. They are just making some changes based on what they learned from each other after a year of working together. I do think Hue is more familiar with the roster now and so he has more input to give the front office about what he wants though. I don't think the front office are obstructionists. They will do their best to get Hue what he wants I think.

I think subtle word choice is key here. There really is a difference between power play and power struggle.

I agree. It isn't like we are allowing a computer to select our players.

As I said in another post, I think the analytics is more of an aid in selecting mid round picks where the scout grades are more bunched up. At some point, what is the real difference between the guy ranked as the 80th player and the 90th player?

Depodesta's vision...



'I thought he was a genius until he agreed to work for the Browns'

David Fleming
ESPN Senior Writer
Apr 11, 2016
link

VISION

BASIS OF WHAT DePodesta and Browns are attempting not new. Majority of NFL teams begrudgingly use analytics without fully embracing concept. Besides scouting and drafting, teams employ analytics to weigh trades, allot practice time, call plays (example: evolving mindset regarding fourth downs) and manage clock. What will differentiate DePodesta and Cleveland is extent to which Browns use data science to influence decision-making. DePodesta would like decisions to be informed by 60 percent data, 40 percent scouting. Present-day NFL is more 70 percent scouting and 30 percent data. DePodesta won't just ponder scouts' performance but question their very existence. Will likewise flip burden of proof on all football processes, models and systems. Objective data regarding, say, a player's size and his performance metrics -- example: Defensive ends must have arm length of at least 33∏ inches -- will dictate decision-making. Football staff will then have to produce overwhelming subjective argument to overrule or disprove analytics. "It's usually the other way around," states member of AFC team's analytics staff. "I'm jealous, to be honest. I was hoping we'd be the first to do this, but the Browns are beating everyone to the punch. Only question is how much of a tie-yourself-to-the-mast mentality will they have, and for how long?"

We took Duke Johnson at 77.

Arizona took David Johnson at 86.

My only thought, is that Hue may not of been the best coach to begin this with.

Get a young guy like Gase, and just let him coach who you bring in, overall the "system" works better.

Bring in an old fashion football coach, and that's where the arguments happen.

We'll see.

Generally speaking, I have no problem with this. Subjective opinion versus statistical analysis of facts. Of course there has to be a window for analytics to be over-ridden, but it would require a consensus to do so...

You are and you aren't.

Let me try to explain. When he said he didn't need to see more tape on them, he was referring to the players in the senior bowl.

That's the "You Aren't part.

The "are" part is when you say he needs to be more hands on but with those he hasn't coached.

Lol vers

tab, I do NOT see how anyone could have a problem w/Williams actually watching game tape of the players he has "put his hands on."

Man, that sounds creepy.

You gotta watch that man

Nobody has a problem with him watching tape on anyone, whether he's someone that Williams had his "hands on" or not.

Just don't confuse the issues.

I would say that the numbers provided did not come directly from Depodesta. But to a point, the data example provided is nothing new. Ever hear of the 26-27-60 football formula? Or the Parcells method of chosing a QB? All of those are analytics, its just that no one bas ever called them as such.

j/c

I don't understand how people can believe that Haslam went out and hired someone in the forefront of analytics and then say that analytics isn't a driving force for the team.

Aggressive can mean a lot of things. I consider going after Collins aggressive. But that is 1 move. Being aggressive doesn't necessarily mean being hyper active via Free Agency.

I think they will target players that fit certain age/production/backround criteria rather then being in the bidding for every "top tier" FA.

that's exactly the way I was taking it

This whole article is very good and very interesting:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18691938/20-plays-every-nfl-coach-steal-2017

thank you for the insight but I like his 8 man blitzes against back up qbs

Watching Mayles Garrett work out I wonder if Hue fired Ray Horton and his 3-4 defense because he knows the Browns are drafting Garrett and wants his hand in the dirt?

Not an impossible thought.

Def possibly a part of it. Horton was fired after we knew our draft order.

I think Hue wanted a coach that he felt would get more out of the young guys. I wasn't impressed with Horton's defense at all this year.

But I do think it's possible, that Hue looked at our defense, figured that Williams could get more out of the young guys that we have, switching to a 4-3 base would be a better fit for the players that we do have, and we probably will select Myles Garrett, who is a good fit as a 4-3 DE. He might not have though that Horton did a good job, or maybe he didn't like his coaching style. After-all he's with him pretty much every day.

Plus, Williams might have been the guy he's always wanted to be his DC, and now he was available. And maybe he thought Horton was the best option of a group of candidates that he wasn't impressed with initially.

I think it's possibly a number of things. But Garrett could defininitely be a part of it

Seeing and hearing GW attitude and reputation I think he's just what we need on our team. I think he'll get the most out of our guys. He'll demand they play hard and learn his system. No nonsense.

Dude, if you can, watch the Hard Knocks series last season. This dude is high energy, take no BS from anyone type player.

No school like the Old School! Get t-shirts made. If this piledriver can get it set up for us, this could be a thrilling turnaround IMHO. Beats the dog collar nonsense and the lunacy that was our defense last year.

I am ready for the next wave . . . .