DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season 2017 NFL Draft Who should we draft in 2017? v3.0

There are a ton of guys who can hit 100 regularly now.

Here is a list of guys who average over 96 MPH:

http://m.mlb.com/statcast/leaderboard#avg-pitch-velo

I don't respond to you very often because this is your attitude. You enjoy trying to make people look bad.

You twist words around and try way too hard to win an argument, rather than trying to have an honest discussion.

Seriously, what type of person tries to make others look bad?

I will stick to the point peen and I tried to make several times in various threads. By the time guys reach the NFL, they are not going to significantly improve their arm strength. If they could improve it significantly, almost every qb would have a great arm.

And no amount of spin is going to change that fact.

I'm far from the only one who knows about it. I posted how to do it yourself so feel free to try it and prove me wrong. Did I try to hide something? There is a reason all the TOP QB in the NFL are lining up to have House coach them in the offseason and one of the main reasons is that his methods improve ball velocity. His methods are proven.

Garret number one and trub if he falls to 12. Hooker or bpa if not.
Not really going to "back up" my opinion. It's just what I'd do, like the thread asks.

Not going to get in on a crappy thread. Not going to get mad and waste my time with links backing up stupid arguments. Seriously though, you guys just ruin it for aneveryday fan/season tic holder. Like to read about Browns and others opinions. But to educate myself from other peoples thoughts combined with mine.

Who would you draft v3? Why is it v3? Because 3/4 of it is childish nonsense. Links and links of crap like long muscles for baseball players? Take that crap to a thread called "can one improve arm strength?" Not this thread. Is it so someone sees this nonsense in a thread with a totally thread title?

I know I can't get some to not act like they know every thing. But keep it on topic, so others can weed out what topic they want to read. Some people like to kill 10-15 min reading. Not hrs acting like an arse that knows everything.

There is a simple solution. Skip the long posts you don't want to read. There are many very intelligent and knowledgeable posters on this forum on a large range of material. It's not often we agree on things around here but on the plus side you will learn more here than from ready 10 times as much from just reading sports sites. At least I have learned much from other posters on this forum privately and publically. I don't think things will get simplified for you though and to be honest I'd get bored fast if this was a forum of only simple post and replies. I like that folks fight hard for their opinions here =)

Either way, like I said. You're entitled to your opinion =)

Apparently you are the type of person who tries to make others look bad. I'll let you define what that is yourself.

I was presenting information. You were the one that started personal attacks. I responded by attacking your logical fallacy (ad hominem.) I then moved on and tried to talk about the draft. You made it personal again.

I'm sorry that I like logic to be followable rather than the "it just is" and "you're stupid" arguments that you tend to fall back on.

Here's an article showing an MLB pitcher who significantly increased his velocity:

Link

Here's a graph if that is hard to understand:



But wait, that never happens.

I know I shouldn't let evidence get in the way of your opinion, but I can't help myself.

I thought about spinning the image upside down so that you could be right about something in your post, but it just seemed like too much effort.

What evidence do you have to support your fact that I can't spin? Do you have records of QB velocity after the draft? How big is your sample size? What is your methodology? Or are you just assuming it to be true because it looks that way to your eye?

I'm sorry that I question your opinion. Not taking your word as gospel is surely a bad attitude.

I understand that you miss feeling powerful like you did back when your students took everything you read out of a book as the truth. Unfortunately, you aren't given all the answers any more and have found out there are things you can't control. Deal with it, and let's get this back on track.

So they only want to work with House because of arm strength. Got it. It has nothing to do with all of the other major ingredients that make a great QB. I think it's you who's missing the point. Like I said, only half the league can even field a decent QB. But yeah, it's because a lot of them are just stupid and you have the answer.

Better luck next time.

You talk, talk, talk........but, you say nothing.

It comes down to this..............if NFL QBs could significantly improve their arm strength, why aren't they doing so?

3MPH isn't what we are talking about here, but that is a nice improvement. What you don't know is how often the guy could hit that top number, which is probably 2-3 MPH over his average number.

I KNOW, he hit it all along. Coaching got him there more often through solid mechanics.

Throwing at 93 isn't a weak arm. Show me a guy who throws 88MPH and all of a sudden throws 97. Again, not some kid of 17 v a young man of 24.


I don't know why I am wasting my time. I coached college aged players in Summer leagues. I didn't try to sell the soft tosser he coulkd become a power pitcher. I knew that wasn't true. I tried to make him a better pitcher. Learn to chage speeds and keep the hitter off balance. Throw one pitch a foot shorter, and the next a foot quicker. Make a living watching dead fish being hit to center.

j/c

Can we not find some common ground or compromise? Are we stuck on the word "significantly" and cannot move off of it? We are not talking absolutes here (although Grimm has brought forth some data)...

I might agree with them on QBs, but the pitching analogy is a horrible one. Pitchers are clearly raising their MPH all the time.

No. Significantly is the key word. Of course, you can improve slightly. However, once you get to this level, dramatic or significant improvements are a fallacy. And all the hateful insults in the world isn't going to change that FACT!

BTW-----------I provided data, too.

I get the pissing match part of this, but I am not wrong on this at all.

Are you denying evolution?

Here is the link that provides the text that goes w/this:

http://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-player-size-over-time-2014-7

Wanna bet that I can find a link that shows that players are also faster now?

It's evolution. It's better training methods. Better diet. Etc

But, make no mistake.........humans are getting bigger, faster, and stronger as they evolve.

By no means is it the only factor. It is ONE of them though. His process definitely improves ball velocity and improve their ability to throw it deeper with more accuracy.

https://www.wired.com/2015/10/baseball-building-better-nfl-quarterbacks/


It's not only House that is doing this btw. It's just for most this all new stuff and new technology. I've only been aware of it in the last 4 to 5 years. I'm very confident now that you can achieve good results in young kids and up to age 26 young adults.

http://www.mensfitness.com/sports/footba...ur-arm-strength

What do you consider significantly? Kessler threw the ball 55 MPH at the combine. The highest "officially" recorded velocity is 60 MPH. 2 MPH is significant (to me). If significant to you means they have to double their arm strength, of course that's ridiculous. Kessler doesn't need to increase even 10 MPH to be in the highest group. He needs 5 MPH to be at the top. I've given an example of a roughly 2.5 MPH improvement in throwing velocity by a professional athlete at an age older than Kessler. Is this the norm? No. Is it outside the realm of possibility? It doesn't appear so. The successful QBs at the top don't need to improve their arm strength, because most have plenty to start and at higher levels there are diminishing returns.

Did you ever look at that Briggs Myers types test I sent a link to via PM? I'm guessing you are an ESFJ. It would explain a lot. I don't mean that positively or negatively, we'd just have different perspectives for looking at things.

I'm not sure where you stand on what significance is. It appears we have different perspectives on even that word.

It also looks like we are interpreting the initial question differently. "If NFL QBs could significantly improve their arm strength..."

You seem to interpret "Could" as meaning "Do" NFL QBs significantly improve arm strength in a black and white way. I'm looking at "Could" as "Can/is it possible" for a QB to improve his arm strength by a few MPH (which I consider significant) and all the underlying factors that could tie into it.Tweak this technique, strengthen that muscle, etc. Can a couple MPH be squeezed out?

We both "say" plenty, but we both kind of suck at "hearing" each other.

I do apologize for lashing out. I've got a lot on my mind. Exams starting up already, 3 group projects (which no one else wants to look at), 2 research intensive individual investigation projects- I've been sick as a dog and it hasn't made me any less grumpy. Plus, I have this terrible song stuck in my head which may be slowly driving me crazy.





Back to football, Does anyone have thoughts on Montae Nicholson? There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of film out there. You can catch pieces of him in Malik McDowell's tapes on draftbreakdown. The Full Bowl game from 2 years ago I was also able to track down on youtube.

He looks interesting. Might make it to that 4th-5th round area.

Absolutly yes, but I thought that this was a football topic, not a debate on the religion of evolution.

We're both at fault. The truth somehow got lost in all of this mess.

I apologize and will move on...

NFL DRAFT GAME 2017Logged in as: edromeo
YOUR TEAM: CLEVELAND BROWNS
GAME OVER!


Your score is: 9838 (GRADE: B-)

Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 1: Jonathan Allen, DT/DE, Alabama (A+)
Round 1 Pick 12: Jamal Adams, SS, LSU (A+)
Round 2 Pick 1: Carl Lawson, DE/OLB, Auburn (B+)
Round 2 Pick 20: Adoree' Jackson, CB, Southern California (B+)
Round 3 Pick 1: Tyler Orlosky, C, West Virginia (A)
Round 3 Pick 39: Montravius Adams, DT, Auburn (A)
Round 4 Pick 1: Davis Webb, QB, California (C)
Round 4 Pick 36: John Johnson, FS, Boston College (B)
Round 5 Pick 1: Jake Butt, TE, Michigan (B+)
Round 5 Pick 31: Ryan Switzer, WR, North Carolina (A)
Round 5 Pick 34: Jamaal Williams, RB, Brigham Young (A)
Round 6 Pick 1: Keionta Davis, DE, Chattanooga (A-)

Your Future Picks:
2018 Round 1 Pick
2019 Round 1 Pick

It's also a highly distorted presentation of the graph to display a <2.5% improvement over a 3 year span...

I'm gonna chime in. I'm not really looking to get in an argument with anyone.

Every QB in the NFL is working on their arm strength. They work with Strength and conditioning coaches just like everybody else.

While I don't know any QB that couldn't improve their arm strength at least a little, it requires more of an effort for less of a result every time that you improve it.

Improving velocity is more than just improving arm strength. If you make the throw easier by improving the throwing motion, it takes less effort to do it. There are very few perfect throwing motions in the NFL, so again there is room for just about every QB to improve. How great the improvement is really depends on how much the throwing motion can be corrected, but I would guess you would get better results here than trying to improve arm strength on a guy that has probably been lifting for the last decade. QB's learn a little about throwing motion in HS and College, but it really doesn't start to become a science until the NFL and even now the new CBA limits the amount of time coaches have to work with QB's to fix it.

A 2.5% improvement in velocity is huge! Most QB's would jump at the chance for that kind of improvement. Make that kind of improvement 2 or 3 times in your entire career and it could be the difference between being cut and being in the Pro Bowl.

This is a game of inches.

Who should we draft in 2017?

I'm just getting back onto this board so I'm not sure if anyone has talked about this or not, but before we figure out who we should draft we need to figure out what we need personnel wise.

Obviously QB is at the top of that list, unless of-course you're a big Kesslar fan.

I think a three technique is also a need. Along with a center, linebacker depth, and some secondary help.I also would like to add a good return man. What do you guys think? Maybe give your suggestions where we can find these players.

I have some players I like for us.

WB, 2 years to make your first post I think is a nice record =)

Sorry, I've had some things going on in my life that were far more important then this board, but I didn't come on her to talk about that, I'm on here to talk football, can we keep it to that-please.I'd appreciate that.

New personal high score. Also like the draft.

Your score is: 12112 (GRADE: A)

Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 8 (CAR): Jamal Adams, SS, LSU (A+)
Round 1 Pick 12: Reuben Foster, ILB, Alabama (A+)
Round 2 Pick 1: Taco Charlton, DE, Michigan (B+)
Round 2 Pick 8 (CAR): DeShone Kizer, QB, Notre Dame (A)
Round 2 Pick 20: David Njoku, TE, Miami (Fla.) (A+)
Round 3 Pick 1: Christian McCaffrey, RB, Stanford (A+)
Round 3 Pick 39: Josh Jones, FS, NC State (A-)
Round 4 Pick 1: Isaiah Ford, WR, Virginia Tech (A+)
Round 4 Pick 36: Noah Brown, WR, Ohio State (A+)
Round 5 Pick 1: Will Holden, OT, Vanderbilt (A+)
Round 5 Pick 31: DeAngelo Brown, DT, Louisville (A)
Round 5 Pick 34: Channing Stribling, CB, Michigan (A)
Round 6 Pick 1: Aarion Penton, CB, Missouri (A-)

Your Future Picks:
2018 Round 1 Pick (CAR)
2018 Round 1 Pick
2019 Round 1 Pick

Who should we draft 17, I trust our front office and coaches- is/was Kessler better than Johnny Football- hell yes, he's still in league- did didn't win games, but he didn't lose many either AND is there a QB better than him in this draft- maybe, I trust Jackson more than anyone on the board- I don't like Garrett-taking plays off- IF our brain trust drafts him I BELIEVE they will know if he's worth first pick....Nassib works his butt off, but isn't talented enough....if we can get a haul for first pick, I'd trade down, we need more quality players- AND a player is only worth it if he's available, Garrett might be like C. Brown....great, but unavailable....GO Browns!!!!

Yeah, trading down has always worked well for us.Thankfully we traded down last year got rid of everybody with some ability and finished 1-15. Trading down made us the joke of the NFL.

I'm all in for Garrett at #1 and hoping that Hooker falls to us at #12. If Hooker isn't there at 12, perhaps Tabor or Lattimore.

I'm also one of the few guys that's probably okay with trading down from #12, but it would take a pretty good haul of draft picks for me to trade down from #1 this year. Garrett is too much of a freak.

It did? Says who?

It's to the point that people don't even make fun of us anymore, they mostly feel sorry. Which is even more insulting actually.

For trading down?

In general.

I don't want to use #12.

But it would be slightly ironic if we used Phillys pick to get Garrapolo and he ended up being better than Wentz..

Especially if you think that drafting Wentz gets us a few more wins, and then we also miss out on Garrett..

*x files music*

I was listening to sport's talk radio while traveling back-and-forth between SC and Ohio, and yes, the Browns were being mocked on almost every show for trading away the chance to take Wentz.

That doesn't mean a whole lot, but I don't think you should mock the poster who made the original comment, either.

People always aim for low hanging fruit. Who cares what national or local media says?

A better point is who cares what guys on a message board say?

Exactly. Everyone needs to decide for themselves on who to listen to and try not to get so butt mad when they disagree with a person.

We finally agree on something.

I'll make a communist out of you yet