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Trading down made us the joke of the NFL. It did? Says who? I take it you don't think we were a joke Do you think the Browns strike fear in any NFL team. I think Pittsburg would have played their cheerleaders if they were allowed.......And still beat us.
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Every QB that has ever played in the NFL has improved their arm strength. Did any of them have the same arm strength when they were 12?
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Legend
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Trading down made us the joke of the NFL. It did? Says who? I take it you don't think we were a joke You said, "Trading down made us the joke of the NFL." I don't think trading down did that. I think firing coaches, entire front offices, and whiffing on draft picks made us the joke of the NFL.
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I believe the players we passed on compared to the players we actually draft made us a joke.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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All Pro
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Johnathan Allen at #1
Let's see what kind of responses I get for that.
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Dawg Talker
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I prefer Garrett but wouldn't cry too hard if it was Allen.
I bet you're wondering the samething I did, why O' why didn't I take the...blue pill
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Legend
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Every QB that has ever played in the NFL has improved their arm strength. Did any of them have the same arm strength when they were 12? Why did you waste the time to make that post? My argument is that NFL QBs do not SIGNIFICANTLY improve their arm strength once reaching the NFL. Maybe Diam was right and you are 12 years old.
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Trading down made us the joke of the NFL. It did? Says who? I take it you don't think we were a joke You said, "Trading down made us the joke of the NFL." I don't think trading down did that. I think firing coaches, entire front offices, and whiffing on draft picks made us the joke of the NFL. Trading down got us 1-15
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Johnathan Allen at #1
Let's see what kind of responses I get for that. OK by me. I would be ok with stopping the run once in awhile.
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Your score is: 10475 (GRADE: B+)
Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 1: Myles Garrett, DE/OLB, Texas A&M (A+)
Round 1 Pick 16 (BALT): Ryan Ramczyk, OT, Wisconsin (B+)
Round 2 Pick 1: Dan Feeney, OG, Indiana (B+)
Round 2 Pick 15 (BALT): Patrick Mahomes, QB, Texas Tech (B+)
Round 2 Pick 16 (IND): Haason Reddick, OLB, Temple (A)
Round 2 Pick 20: Obi Melifonwu, SS, Connecticut (B)
Round 3 Pick 1: Cameron Sutton, CB, Tennessee (A)
Round 3 Pick 39: Zay Jones, WR, East Carolina (A+)
Round 4 Pick 1: Montravius Adams, DT, Auburn (A)
Round 4 Pick 36: John Johnson, FS, Boston College (B)
Round 5 Pick 1: Sam Rogers, FB, Virginia Tech (A)
Round 5 Pick 31: Josh Reynolds, WR, Texas A&M (A+)
Round 5 Pick 34: Michael Roberts, TE, Toledo (A)
Round 6 Pick 1: Zane Gonzalez, K, Arizona State (A-)
Your Future Picks:
2018 Round 1 Pick
2019 Round 1 Pick
I drafted Freeney as a OC.
Traded down from 12 (twice) to add more 2nd round picks
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Trading down made us the joke of the NFL. It did? Says who? I take it you don't think we were a joke You said, "Trading down made us the joke of the NFL." I don't think trading down did that. I think firing coaches, entire front offices, and whiffing on draft picks made us the joke of the NFL. Trading down got us 1-15 This is not true. Not re-signing Mack, Benjamin, Schwartz, and/or Gipson, whiffing on draft picks for a decade, and turnover all over the whole team got us 1-15.
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Not to mention a chit ton of injuries.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Legend
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Legend
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Trading down made us the joke of the NFL. It did? Says who? I take it you don't think we were a joke You said, "Trading down made us the joke of the NFL." I don't think trading down did that. I think firing coaches, entire front offices, and whiffing on draft picks made us the joke of the NFL. Trading down got us 1-15
Year two should be significantly better!
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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2nd String
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Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 1: Myles Garrett, DE/OLB, Texas A&M (A+)
Round 1 Pick 12: Malik Hooker, FS/SS, Ohio State (A+)
Round 1 Pick 13 (ARI): Leonard Fournette, RB, LSU (A+)
Round 5 Pick 1: Artavis Scott, WR, Clemson (A+)
Round 5 Pick 31: Channing Stribling, CB, Michigan (A)
Round 5 Pick 34: Jordan Sterns, FS, Oklahoma State (B-)
Round 6 Pick 1: Jonnu Smith, TE, Florida International (C+)
Your Future Picks:
2018 Round 1 Pick
2019 Round 1 Pick
I traded the 2nds, 3rds and 4ths to move up to 13 for Fournette. Less picks means less solid/good players but potentially have 3 superstars.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341 |
Your score is: 11298 (GRADE: A-)
Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 5 (TENN): Malik Hooker, FS/SS, Ohio State (A+)
Round 1 Pick 13 (ARI): Zach Cunningham, OLB/ILB, Vanderbilt (A)
Round 1 Pick 18 (TENN): DeShone Kizer, QB, Notre Dame (B-)
Round 2 Pick 1: David Njoku, TE, Miami (Fla.) (A-)
Round 2 Pick 13 (ARI): TreDavious White, CB, LSU (A)
Round 2 Pick 20: Desmond King, CB/FS, Iowa (A)
Round 3 Pick 1: Antonio Garcia, OT, Troy (B+)
Round 3 Pick 39: Noah Brown, WR, Ohio State (A)
Round 4 Pick 1: Tyler Orlosky, C, West Virginia (A+)
Round 4 Pick 36: Ryan Glasgow, DT, Michigan (A+)
Round 5 Pick 1: Corey Clement, RB, Wisconsin (A)
Round 5 Pick 31: Eddie Vanderdoes, DT, UCLA (A)
Round 5 Pick 34: Ryan Switzer, WR, North Carolina (A)
Round 6 Pick 1: Donnel Pumphrey, RB, San Diego State (A+)
Your Future Picks:
2018 Round 1 Pick
2018 Round 1 Pick (TENN)
2019 Round 1 Pick
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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One of my all time low scores, but I like the final out come;
Your score is: 9946 (GRADE: B-)
Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 1: Myles Garrett, DE/OLB, Texas A&M (A+)
Round 1 Pick 12: Ryan Ramczyk, OT, Wisconsin (B+)
Round 2 Pick 1: Haason Reddick, OLB, Temple (B+)
Round 2 Pick 20: Patrick Mahomes, QB, Texas Tech (A-)
Round 3 Pick 1: Obi Melifonwu, SS, Connecticut (A-)
Round 3 Pick 39: Tanoh Kpassagnon, DE, Villanova (A-)
Round 4 Pick 1: Kareem Hunt, RB, Toledo (B)
Round 4 Pick 36: Josh Reynolds, WR, Texas A&M (A)
Round 5 Pick 1: Jon Toth, C, Kentucky (B-)
Round 5 Pick 31: Eddie Vanderdoes, DT, UCLA (A)
Round 5 Pick 34: Sam Rogers, FB, Virginia Tech (A+)
Round 6 Pick 1: Zane Gonzalez, K, Arizona State (A-)
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The draft game has totally trashed the OT rankings lately. Even Cam earns a B rating anywhere before the end of the second round. It's just all screwed up on the game lately.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Trading down made us the joke of the NFL. It did? Says who? I take it you don't think we were a joke You said, "Trading down made us the joke of the NFL." I don't think trading down did that. I think firing coaches, entire front offices, and whiffing on draft picks made us the joke of the NFL. Trading down got us 1-15 This is not true. Not re-signing Mack, Benjamin, Schwartz, and/or Gipson, whiffing on draft picks for a decade, and turnover all over the whole team got us 1-15. True, I consider that part of the trading down. I know it didn't have anything to do with trading down but was all together one big screwup.
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Every QB that has ever played in the NFL has improved their arm strength. Did any of them have the same arm strength when they were 12? Why did you waste the time to make that post? My argument is that NFL QBs do not SIGNIFICANTLY improve their arm strength once reaching the NFL. Maybe Diam was right and you are 12 years old. You waste my time with every egotistical bs post that you spew, so I thought it would be appropriate to keep up with the Joneses like wasting my time replying to your waste of a reply.
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I'm gonna chime in. I'm not really looking to get in an argument with anyone.
Every QB in the NFL is working on their arm strength. They work with Strength and conditioning coaches just like everybody else.
While I don't know any QB that couldn't improve their arm strength at least a little, it requires more of an effort for less of a result every time that you improve it.
Improving velocity is more than just improving arm strength. If you make the throw easier by improving the throwing motion, it takes less effort to do it. There are very few perfect throwing motions in the NFL, so again there is room for just about every QB to improve. How great the improvement is really depends on how much the throwing motion can be corrected, but I would guess you would get better results here than trying to improve arm strength on a guy that has probably been lifting for the last decade. QB's learn a little about throwing motion in HS and College, but it really doesn't start to become a science until the NFL and even now the new CBA limits the amount of time coaches have to work with QB's to fix it.
A 2.5% improvement in velocity is huge! Most QB's would jump at the chance for that kind of improvement. Make that kind of improvement 2 or 3 times in your entire career and it could be the difference between being cut and being in the Pro Bowl.
This is a game of inches.
What I would be curious to see is how much increase X translates to the field. Like you said, it's a game of inches. It's also a game of micro-seconds. Take for example Kessler at 55mph. How much does he need to increase his velocity to hit Pryor 0.2 seconds faster? Between the phenomenal shape these athletes are in and their insane reaction times, I would think TP getting the ball 0.2 seconds faster could translate in to more yards. I'm sure we could plug in some rate/times/distance formulas and figure it out but I wonder if that looks like 55.5 mph... 56 mph... 56.5 mph? We have to be careful about focusing on our top end speed and forgetting about the time it takes to go from 0-60. I know, novice question.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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Good question.
Where's Lyuokdea when you need him?!
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Legend
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Take for example Kessler at 55mph. How much does he need to increase his velocity to hit Pryor 0.2 seconds faster? The reality is to hit Pryor .02 seconds faster, he will probably have to throw it .02 seconds sooner. The reason Kessler seems reluctant to throwing deep is by the time he sees the receiver, or the receiver gets open, they are sprinting out of his range.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I'm gonna chime in. I'm not really looking to get in an argument with anyone.
Every QB in the NFL is working on their arm strength. They work with Strength and conditioning coaches just like everybody else.
While I don't know any QB that couldn't improve their arm strength at least a little, it requires more of an effort for less of a result every time that you improve it.
Improving velocity is more than just improving arm strength. If you make the throw easier by improving the throwing motion, it takes less effort to do it. There are very few perfect throwing motions in the NFL, so again there is room for just about every QB to improve. How great the improvement is really depends on how much the throwing motion can be corrected, but I would guess you would get better results here than trying to improve arm strength on a guy that has probably been lifting for the last decade. QB's learn a little about throwing motion in HS and College, but it really doesn't start to become a science until the NFL and even now the new CBA limits the amount of time coaches have to work with QB's to fix it.
A 2.5% improvement in velocity is huge! Most QB's would jump at the chance for that kind of improvement. Make that kind of improvement 2 or 3 times in your entire career and it could be the difference between being cut and being in the Pro Bowl.
This is a game of inches.
What I would be curious to see is how much increase X translates to the field. Like you said, it's a game of inches. It's also a game of micro-seconds. Take for example Kessler at 55mph. How much does he need to increase his velocity to hit Pryor 0.2 seconds faster? Between the phenomenal shape these athletes are in and their insane reaction times, I would think TP getting the ball 0.2 seconds faster could translate in to more yards. I'm sure we could plug in some rate/times/distance formulas and figure it out but I wonder if that looks like 55.5 mph... 56 mph... 56.5 mph? We have to be careful about focusing on our top end speed and forgetting about the time it takes to go from 0-60. I know, novice question. The average QB throws about 50 MPH. A 2.5% increase in velocity would be an increase of 1.25 MPH. 1 MPH = 0.488889 yards per second So in the example above, for every second that the ball is in the air the DB would need to cover about an extra 2 feet. That is a huge deal.
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That's a good point.
Kessler was pretty average on velocity at the combine:
Paxton Lynch, Memphis 59
Jared Goff, California 58
Carson Wentz, North Dakota State 57
Christian Hackenberg, Penn State 56
Joel Stave, Wisconsin 56
Jacoby Brissett, North Carolina State 56
Josh Woodrum, Liberty 56
Cody Kessler, Southern Cal 55
Brandon Allen, Arkansas 55
Trevone Boykin, TCU 55
Dak Prescott, Mississippi State 54
Nate Sudfeld, Indiana 54
Kevin Hogan, Stanford 53
Brandon Doughty, Western Kentucky 53
Vernon Adams, Oregon 53
Jeff Driskel, Louisana Tech 52
Connor Cook, Michigan State 50
Cardale Jones, Ohio State, Did not throw
To improve his range he has to improve both his arm strength and his core strength as well as his throwing motion.
Improving his anticipation is probably much easier.
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Kessler was never knocked for arm strength. His problem is that he takes too long to make decisions.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Rookie
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Assumptions:
QB is 7 yds behind the line of scrimmage
Ball is approximately in middle of field
Receiver is 10 yds beyond line of scrimmage, near sideline (approx 25 yds from middle of field)
Math:
QB has to throw ball 30 yds to reach receiver
At 55 mph it takes 1.499 seconds to reach the receiver
To get there in 1.299 seconds or .2 seconds faster the speed must increase to 63.5 MPH
That is over 15% faster.
Last edited by alne; 02/05/17 11:45 PM.
Your opinion is as valid as mine--no matter how crazy it is!
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Legend
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Every QB that has ever played in the NFL has improved their arm strength. Did any of them have the same arm strength when they were 12? Why did you waste the time to make that post? My argument is that NFL QBs do not SIGNIFICANTLY improve their arm strength once reaching the NFL. Maybe Diam was right and you are 12 years old. You waste my time with every egotistical bs post that you spew, so I thought it would be appropriate to keep up with the Joneses like wasting my time replying to your waste of a reply. Then, stop reading my dumb posts so the rest of us don't have to listen to your moronic replies. Pretty simple.
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Legend
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Kessler was never knocked for arm strength. His problem is that he takes too long to make decisions. That is not true. Kessler has a below average arm and despite the claims from guys like you, Grimm, and tab.............will never have an even average NFL arm.
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~ Legend
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Kessler could have a stronger arm in the future. But his career is probably done. He's not there mentally, and that's the biggest challenge. He got benched and publicly got criticized for not throwing the deep ball. When he ended getting chances to play after the comment, he still wouldn't throw the deep ball. I think he's a little too scared to play the game.
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Kessler could have a stronger arm in the future. But his career is probably done. He's not there mentally, and that's the biggest challenge. He got benched and publicly got criticized for not throwing the deep ball. When he ended getting chances to play after the comment, he still wouldn't throw the deep ball. I think he's a little too scared to play the game. Horse feathers. The kidd has fight in him. He didn't come this far because he was a wimp. He might not have what it takes to be a full time starting QB, but don't assume to know his charater.
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~ Legend
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Kid has a fight in him. But he can have fight in him and be too scared to make a mistake.
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Kid has a fight in him. But he can have fight in him and be too scared to make a mistake. Pass protection is paramount.
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kessler stinks and will never be a long-term starting qb in this league.
Wanna bet?
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Kid has a fight in him. But he can have fight in him and be too scared to make a mistake. Pass protection is paramount. In this situation, it isn't as paramount as release time and processing speed.
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Cody is a good kid. I like him as our back up QB. In a few more seasons if we are still under Hue and he is very confident in the offensive system I think he could easily challenge RG3. His ball velocity has improved a lot since working with House but he still doesn't have the confidence in those throws to match it. That will take some time. I hope we can keep him around as our back up QB. With more confidence in the system he might surprise us later on. He isn't the answer for anything more than that though IMHO.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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Legend
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Cody is a good kid. I like him as our back up QB. In a few more seasons if we are still under Hue and he is very confident in the offensive system I think he could easily challenge RG3. His ball velocity has improved a lot since working with House but he still doesn't have the confidence in those throws to match it. That will take some time. I hope we can keep him around as our back up QB. With more confidence in the system he might surprise us later on. He isn't the answer for anything more than that though IMHO. Just a general question: Kessler, drafted in the 3rd round, to be a qb that never saw the field this year due to RG3 and McCown. Kessler, a guy that was supposed to sit and learn. Now, everyone would agree that the pro game is much faster, windows are tighter, speed at every position is higher/quicker than college, right? That's what the experts say, that's what the coaches say, that's what the players say. So, the question is, can reading a d and knowing where to throw the ball quicker, benefit him? I think so. He didn't get many reps, relatively speaking, in TC, or in pre season. Hey, the plan was for him to sit for a year. When he DID get thrown in, during the season, the coaching and learning thing probably took a back seat to the game plan, to some extent. Who here thinks he can't improve on his timing with more practice and coaching at the pro level?
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Cody is a good kid. I like him as our back up QB. In a few more seasons if we are still under Hue and he is very confident in the offensive system I think he could easily challenge RG3. His ball velocity has improved a lot since working with House but he still doesn't have the confidence in those throws to match it. That will take some time. I hope we can keep him around as our back up QB. With more confidence in the system he might surprise us later on. He isn't the answer for anything more than that though IMHO. Just a general question: Kessler, drafted in the 3rd round, to be a qb that never saw the field this year due to RG3 and McCown. Kessler, a guy that was supposed to sit and learn. Now, everyone would agree that the pro game is much faster, windows are tighter, speed at every position is higher/quicker than college, right? That's what the experts say, that's what the coaches say, that's what the players say. So, the question is, can reading a d and knowing where to throw the ball quicker, benefit him? I think so. He didn't get many reps, relatively speaking, in TC, or in pre season. Hey, the plan was for him to sit for a year. When he DID get thrown in, during the season, the coaching and learning thing probably took a back seat to the game plan, to some extent. Who here thinks he can't improve on his timing with more practice and coaching at the pro level? Good points Peen ... I think he never got adjusted to the speed of the game and the QB position is the hardest position to overvcome that, simply because of all his responsibilities. He still had the highest rating of any QB this year. It wont prevent us from adding another QB via trade or draft, but Kessler can and will play in this League for a while and could make a nitch out of being a back up.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/FL_Dawg/Logo5_1.gif)
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kessler stinks and will never be a long-term starting qb in this league.
Wanna bet? I never said anything about him being a long term starting QB. Go fish 
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,001 |
Cody is a good kid. I like him as our back up QB. In a few more seasons if we are still under Hue and he is very confident in the offensive system I think he could easily challenge RG3. His ball velocity has improved a lot since working with House but he still doesn't have the confidence in those throws to match it. That will take some time. I hope we can keep him around as our back up QB. With more confidence in the system he might surprise us later on. He isn't the answer for anything more than that though IMHO. Just a general question: Kessler, drafted in the 3rd round, to be a qb that never saw the field this year due to RG3 and McCown. Kessler, a guy that was supposed to sit and learn. Now, everyone would agree that the pro game is much faster, windows are tighter, speed at every position is higher/quicker than college, right? That's what the experts say, that's what the coaches say, that's what the players say. So, the question is, can reading a d and knowing where to throw the ball quicker, benefit him? I think so. He didn't get many reps, relatively speaking, in TC, or in pre season. Hey, the plan was for him to sit for a year. When he DID get thrown in, during the season, the coaching and learning thing probably took a back seat to the game plan, to some extent. Who here thinks he can't improve on his timing with more practice and coaching at the pro level? The fact that he goes to House to improve and work on his game during the offseason shows he is very committed to improving. I do think he will get a lot better than he was this year if he manages to keep his spot on the team. After all it's not just about more time in the league. It's about being in a stable learning environment and staying in the same system for several years so that certain decisions become automatic instead of having to be thought through so much. RG3 could also become a legit starter for the same reason. It just helps SO MUCH for a QB to be in the same system for several seasons. I hope Hue is running his offense for at least 4 seasons before they give up on him. I feel like year three will be a special year for this team with Hue as all these young rookies become veterans in Hue's System and as we gather the kind of talent he wants. The WR will benefit a great deal once they are with the same QB long enough at one time to build some actual chemistry. Depending on how this offseason goes I could start to have some real hope for the Browns.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season 2017 NFL Draft Who should we draft in 2017? v3.0
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