DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Libby becomes inmate No. 28301-016

Former chief of staff to vice president appealing to prevent surrender

WASHINGTON - For years he was known as chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney and assistant to President Bush. On Wednesday, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby became federal inmate No. 28301-016.

Libby, who was convicted in March of lying and obstructing an investigation into the leak of a CIA operative's identity, faces 2 1/2 years in prison.

The assignment of an inmate number by the U.S. Bureau of Prisons represents another step on the road to prison. Inmate numbers stay with prisoners even after their release.

Libby, however, is hoping that an appeals court will intervene and put the sentence on hold before he is ordered to surrender.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit has not indicated how quickly it will rule. Lawyers in the case said Libby had not yet been assigned to a prison or given a date to surrender.

Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald opposes Libby's bid to delay his prison term. He says Libby does not have a good chance of having his conviction overturned and should begin serving prison time immediately.

Libby's friends have asked President Bush to step in and pardon him, a request that Bush has sidestepped while the legal case drags on.

Libby, 56, is the only person charged in the leak scandal, which erupted after CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity was revealed in a 2003 syndicated newspaper column. Libby was not the source for that leak and neither of the two Bush administration officials who provided the information were ever charged.

When confronted by prosecutors and FBI agents, however, Libby lied about how he learned about Plame and whom he told, a jury found. He is the highest-ranking White House official sentenced to prison since the Iran-Contra scandal in the 1980s.

The Bureau of Prisons does not say where its inmates will serve until they begin their sentence. Normally, prisoners are assigned to facilities within 200 miles of home. As a nonviolent, first-time offender, Libby likely will be placed in a minimum security prison camp.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19487929/

Ah the day you've been waiting for Pit.. have a beer on me.

I rarely drink anymore DC. Here lately it's been less than monthly. The only thing I consider worthy of cheering to is Browns football. Sixteen weeks a year. And hopefully we can make it more than 16 very soon.


No,this isn't the day I've waited for. The day I'm waiting for is when the White House has its hand forced to give full disclosure on all of the details of the Plame affair and the U.S. attorney firings. When Cheney is forced to disclose the information discussed and who attended his "secret energy meeting" and all of the secrecy finaly comes to light.

Libby is a small fish in a big pond. He's playing the fall guy to protect others. It's far more the "others" he's protecting,you know,the bigger fish in the pond,that I want to see forced to come clean.

If and when that day comes,at that point,I will toast one for the betterment of our nation. And if you want me to drink one for you then,I just may.

Or not.... Yahoo! News




President Bush's statement on Monday in sparing former White House aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby from a 2 1/2-year prison term:

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The United States Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit today rejected Lewis Libby's request to remain free on bail while pursuing his appeals for the serious convictions of perjury and obstruction of justice. As a result, Mr. Libby will be required to turn himself over to the Bureau of Prisons to begin serving his prison sentence.

I have said throughout this process that it would not be appropriate to comment or intervene in this case until Mr. Libby's appeals have been exhausted. But with the denial of bail being upheld and incarceration imminent, I believe it is now important to react to that decision.

From the very beginning of the investigation into the leaking of Valerie Plame's name, I made it clear to the White House staff and anyone serving in my administration that I expected full cooperation with the Justice Department. Dozens of White House staff and administration officials dutifully cooperated.

After the investigation was under way, the Justice Department appointed United States Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois Patrick Fitzgerald as a special counsel in charge of the case. Mr. Fitzgerald is a highly qualified, professional prosecutor who carried out his responsibilities as charged.

This case has generated significant commentary and debate. Critics of the investigation have argued that a special counsel should not have been appointed, nor should the investigation have been pursued after the Justice Department learned who leaked Ms. Plame's name to columnist Robert Novak. Furthermore, the critics point out that neither Mr. Libby nor anyone else has been charged with violating the Intelligence Identities Protection Act or the Espionage Act, which were the original subjects of the investigation. Finally, critics say the punishment does not fit the crime: Mr. Libby was a first-time offender with years of exceptional public service and was handed a harsh sentence based in part on allegations never presented to the jury.

Others point out that a jury of citizens weighed all the evidence and listened to all the testimony and found Mr. Libby guilty of perjury and obstructing justice. They argue, correctly, that our entire system of justice relies on people telling the truth. And if a person does not tell the truth, particularly if he serves in government and holds the public trust, he must be held accountable. They say that had Mr. Libby only told the truth, he would have never been indicted in the first place.

Both critics and defenders of this investigation have made important points. I have made my own evaluation. In preparing for the decision I am announcing today, I have carefully weighed these arguments and the circumstances surrounding this case.

Mr. Libby was sentenced to 30 months of prison, two years of probation and a $250,000 fine. In making the sentencing decision, the district court rejected the advice of the probation office, which recommended a lesser sentence and the consideration of factors that could have led to a sentence of home confinement or probation.

I respect the jury's verdict. But I have concluded that the prison sentence given to Mr. Libby is excessive. Therefore, I am commuting the portion of Mr. Libby's sentence that required him to spend 30 months in prison.

My decision to commute his prison sentence leaves in place a harsh punishment for Mr. Libby. The reputation he gained through his years of public service and professional work in the legal community is forever damaged. His wife and young children have also suffered immensely. He will remain on probation. The significant fines imposed by the judge will remain in effect. The consequences of his felony conviction on his former life as a lawyer, public servant and private citizen will be long-lasting.

The Constitution gives the president the power of clemency to be used when he deems it to be warranted. It is my judgment that a commutation of the prison term in Mr. Libby's case is an appropriate exercise of this power.

He just sealed his fate.


This is exactly what I'd expected. When you watch deciet and secrecy for so long,that's what you learn to expect. This will now get very ugly for the GOP.

Yeah, now Bush will definatly not get elected for another term.

I certainly hope no one is surprised to hear this, it's the first thing that came to mind after they made Libby the fallguy. Pardon or commute his sentence and then find a way to blame the unfair justice system for too harsh a sentence. This is indefensible behavior again showing just how wide the gap is between the powerful and the rest of us.

Of course you have evidence of this happening or you wouldn't be making those accusations. Oh, you don't? Carry on.

I vote Democratic more often, so that idea doesn't entirely upset me, however, I honestly think that your scenario is likely if anybody but Hillary makes it through the primary process. If Hillary is the nominee, I think it is a very close election, simply because of the number of people that so intensely dislike her. Not to change the subject though...


I'm not honestly surprised by this as much as I am by the timing. This is a Friday story, IMO. You do something like this on a Friday and hope for a big news story over the weekend to distract our ADHD culture. I guess the holiday on Wednesday could calm some of it, but I'm shocked at the timing of this more than the actual event.

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...however, I honestly think that your scenario is likely if anybody but Hillary makes it through the primary process.

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That is the exact thought that ran through my mind as I read the post.

Well everyone knew he was going to do it, I just expected him to do it as he was leaving office.

"..I had hoped he could actually quit screwing up enough to get the GOP nominee elected in 08. But this pretty much dashes those hopes."

We can almost feel the sadness dripping from your words.

I would note that this was not a pardon. It was the commutation of a prison sentence that most people thought was unfair for an individual who made false statements in a case in which there was no crime. Valerie Plame was not "outed" - could not be "outed" - because she was not covert. Further, the "leak" regarding Plame's CIA affiliation was from Richard Armitage of the State Dept - a career diplomat and NOT a Bush appointee, and her own husband, Joe Wilson. The fine of $250,000 and the probation of 2 years stay in effect, pending Libby's appeal - which many feel he will win.

Oh, and by the way, here's a list of pardons granted by Bill Clinton on his last day in office:

U.S. Department of Justice

Washington, D.C. 20530
January 20, 2001



Pardon Grants January 2001
Name Home Town Offenses
ALLEN, Verla Jean Everton, Arkansas False statements to agency of United States
ALTIERE, Nicholas M. Las Vegas, Nevada Importation of cocaine
ALTSCHUL, Bernice Ruth Sherman Village, California Conspiracy to commit money laundering
ANDERSON, Joe, Jr. Grove Hill, Alabama Income tax evasion
ANDERSON, William Sterling Spartanburg, South Carolina Conspiracy to defraud a federally insured financial institution, false statements to a federally insured financial institution, wire fraud
AZIZKHANI, Mansour T. Huntsville, Alabama Conspiracy and making false statements in bank loan applications
BABIN, Cleveland Victor, Jr. Oklahoma City, Oklahoma Conspiracy to commit offense against the United States by utilizing the U.S. mail in furtherance of a scheme to defraud
BAGLEY, Chris Harmon Harrah, Oklahoma Conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute cocaine
BANE, Scott Lynn Mahomet, Illinois Unlawful distribution of marijuana
BARBER, Thomas Cleveland Hampton, Florida Issuing worthless checks
BARGON, Peggy Ann Monticello, Illinois Violation of the Lacey Act, violation of the Bald Eagle Protection Act
BHATKA, Tansukhlal Income tax evasion
BLAMPIED, David Roscoe Ketchum, Idaho Conspiracy to distribute cocaine
BORDERS, William Arthur, Jr. Washington, D.C. Conspiracy to corruptly solicit and accept money in return for influencing the official acts of a federal district court judge (Alcee L. Hastings), and to defraud the United States in connection with the performance of lawful government functions; corruptly influencing, obstructing, impeding and endeavoring to influence, obstruct and impede the due administration of justice, and aiding and abetting therein; traveling interstate with intent to commit bribery
BOREL, Arthur David Little Rock, Arkansas Odometer rollback
BOREL, Douglas Charles Conway, Arkansas Odometer rollback
BRABHAM, George Thomas Austin, Texas Making a false statement or report to a federally insured bank
BRASWELL, Almon Glenn Doravilla, Georgia Conspiracy to defraud government with respect to claims; perjury
BROWDER, Leonard Aiken, South Carolina Illegal dispensing of controlled substance and Medicaid fraud
BROWN, David Steven New York, New York Securities fraud and mail fraud
BURLESON, Delores Caroylene, aka Delores Cox Burleson Hanna, Oklahoma Possession of marijuana
BUSTAMANTE, John H. Cleveland, Ohio Wire fraud
CAMPBELL, Mary Louise Ruleville, Mississippi Aiding and abetting the unauthorized use and transfer of food stamps
CANDELARIA, Eloida False information in registering to vote
CAPILI, Dennis Sobrevinas Glendale, California Filing false statements in alien registration
CHAMBERS, Donna Denise Memphis, Tennessee Conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute and to distribute cocaine, possession with intent to distribute cocaine, use of a telephone to facilitate cocaine conspiracy
CHAPMAN, Douglas Eugene Scott, Arkansas Bank fraud
CHAPMAN, Ronald Keith Scott, Arkansas Bank fraud
CHAVEZ, Francisco Larios Santa Ana, California Aiding and abetting illegal entry of aliens
CISNEROS, Henry G.
CLINTON, Roger
COHN, Stuart Harris New Haven, Connecticut 1. Illegal sale of gold options
2. Illegal sale of silver options

COOPER, David Marc Wapakoneta, Ohio Conspiracy to defraud the government
COX, Ernest Harley, Jr. Pine Bluff, Arkansas Conspiracy to defraud a federally insured savings and loan, misapplication of bank funds, false statements
CROSS, John F., Jr. Little Rock, Arkansas Embezzlement by a bank employee
CUNNINGHAM, Rickey Lee Amarillo, Texas Possession with intent to distribute marijuana
DE LABIO, Richard Anthony Baltimore, Maryland Mail fraud, aiding and abetting
DEUTCH, John Described in January 19, 2001 information
DOUGLAS, Richard False statements
DOWNE, Edward Reynolds Conspiracy to commit wire fraud and tax evasion; securities fraud
DUDLEY, Marvin Dean Omaha, Nebraska False statements
DUNCAN, Larry Lee Branson, Missouri Altering an automobile odometer
FAIN, Robert Clinton Aiding and assisting in the preparation of a false corporate tax return
FERNANDEZ, Marcos Arcenio Miami, Florida Conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute marijuana
FERROUILLET, Alvarez Interstate transport of stolen property, money laundering, false statements
FUGAZY, William Denis Harrison, New York Perjury in a bankruptcy proceeding
GEORGE, Lloyd Reid Mail fraud
GOLDSTEIN, Louis Las Vegas, Nevada Possession of goods stolen from interstate shipment
GORDON, Rubye Lee Tampa, Florida Forgery of U.S. Treasury checks
GREEN, Pincus Switzerland
HAMNER, Robert Ivey Searcy, Arkansas Conspiracy to distribute marijuana, possession of marijuana with intent to distribute
HANDLEY, Samuel Price Hodgenville, Kentucky Conspiracy to steal government property
HANDLEY, Woodie Randolph Hodgenville, Kentucky Conspiracy to steal government property
HARMON, Jay Houston Jonesboro, Arkansas 1. Conspiracy to import marijuana, conspiracy to possess marijuana with intent to distribute, importation of marijuana, possession of marijuana with intent to distribute

2. Conspiracy to import cocaine

HEMMINGSON, John Interstate transport of stolen property, money laundering
HERDLINGER, David S. St. Simons Island, Georgia Mail fraud
HUCKLEBERRY, Debi Rae Ogden, Utah Distribution of methamphetamine
JAMES, Donald Ray Fairfield Bay, Arkansas Mail fraud, wire fraud, and false statement to a bank to influence credit approval
JOBE, Stanley Pruet El Paso, Texas Conspiracy to commit bank fraud, and bank fraud
JOHNSON, Ruben H. Austin, Texas Theft and misapplication of bank funds by a bank officer or director
JONES, Linda Conspiracy to commit bank fraud and other offenses against the United States
LAKE, James Howard Illegal corporate campaign contributions, wire fraud
LEWIS, June Louise Lowellville, Ohio Embezzlement by a bank employee
LEWIS, Salim Bonnor Short Hills, New Jersey Securities fraud, record keeping violations, margin violations
LODWICK, John Leighton Excelsior Springs, Missouri Income tax evasion
LOPEZ, Hildebrando San Isidro, Texas Distribution of cocaine
LUACES, Jose Julio Ft. Lauderdale, Florida Possession of an unregistered firearm
MANESS, James Timothy Conspiracy to distribute a controlled substance
MANNING, James Lowell Little Rock, Arkansas Aiding and assisting in the preparation of a false corporate tax return
MARTIN, John Robert Gulf Breeze, Florida Income tax evasion
MARTINEZ, Frank Ayala Elgin, Texas Conspiracy to supply false documents to the Immigration and Naturalization Service
MARTINEZ, Silvia Leticia Beltran Elgin, Texas Conspiracy to supply false documents to the Immigration and Naturalization Service
McCORMICK, John Francis Dedham, Massachusetts Racketeering conspiracy, racketeering, and violation of the Hobbs act
McDOUGAL, Susan H.
MECHANIC, Howard Lawrence 1. Violating the Civil Disobedience Act of 1968

2. Failure to appear

3. Making false statement in acquiring a passport

MITCHELL, Brook K., Sr. Conspiracy to illegally obtain USDA subsidy payments, false statements to USDA, and false entries on USDA forms
MORGAN, Charles Wilfred, III Little Rock, Arkansas Conspiracy to distribute cocaine
MORISON, Samuel Loring Crofton, Maryland Willful transmission of defense information, unauthorized possession and retention of defense information, theft of government property
NAZZARO, Richard Anthony Winchester, Massachusetts Perjury and conspiracy to commit mail fraud
NOSENKO, Charlene Ann Phoenix, Arizona Conspiracy to defraud the United States, and influencing or injuring an officer or juror generally
OBERMEIER, Vernon Raymond Belleville, Illinois Conspiracy to distribute cocaine, distribution of cocaine, and using a communications facility to facilitate distribution of cocaine
OGALDE, Miguelina Glendale, California Conspiracy to import cocaine
OWEN, David C. Olathe, Kansas Filing a false tax return
PALMER, Robert W. Little Rock, Arkansas Conspiracy to make false statements
PERHOSKY, Kelli Anne Bridgeville, Pennsylvania Conspiracy to commit mail fraud
PEZZOPANE, Richard H. Palo Heights, Illinois Conspiracy to commit racketeering, and mail fraud
PHILLIPS, Orville Rex Waco, Texas Unlawful structure of a financial transaction
POLING, Vinson Stewart, Jr. Baldwin, Maryland Making a false bank entry, and aiding and abetting
PROUSE, Norman Lyle Conyers, Georgia Operating or directing the operation of a common carrier while under the influence of alcohol
PRUITT, Willie H. H., Jr. Port Richey, Florida Absent without official leave
PURSLEY, Danny Martin, Sr. Goodlettsville, Tennessee Aiding and abetting the conduct of an illegal gambling business, and obstruction of state laws to facilitate illegal gambling
RAVENEL, Charles D. Charleston, South Carolina Conspiracy to defraud the United States
RAY, William Clyde Altus, Oklahoma Fraud using a telephone
REGALADO, Alfredo Luna Pharr, Texas Failure to report the transportation of currency in excess of $10,000 into the United States
RICAFORT, Ildefonso Reynes Houston, Texas Submission of false claims to Veterans Administration
RICH, Marc Switzerland
RIDDLE, Howard Winfield Mt. Crested Butte, Colorado Violation of the Lacey Act (receipt of illegally imported animal skins)
RILEY, Richard Wilson, Jr. Possession of cocaine with intent to distribute
ROBBINS, Samuel Lee Cedar Park, Texas Misprision of a felony
RODRIGUEZ, Joel Gonzales Houston, Texas Theft of mail by a postal employee
ROGERS, Michael James McAllen, Texas Conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute marijuana
ROSS, Anna Louise Lubbock, Texas Distribution of cocaine
RUST, Gerald Glen Avery, Texas False declarations before grand jury
RUST, Jerri Ann Avery, Texas False declarations before grand jury
RUTHERFORD, Bettye June Albuquerque, New Mexico Possession of marijuana with intent to distribute
SANDS, Gregory Lee Sioux Falls, South Dakota Conspiracy to distribute cocaine
SCHWIMMER, Adolph Conspiracy to commit an offense against the United States, conspiracy to export arms and ammunition to a foreign country and related charges
SERETTI, Albert A., Jr. McKees Rocks, Pennyslvania Conspiracy and wire fraud
SHAW, Patricia Campbell Hearst Wilton, Connecticut Armed bank robbery and using a firearm during a felony
SMITH, Dennis Joseph Redby, Minnesota 1. Unauthorized absence

2. Failure to obey off-limits instructions

3. Unauthorized absence

SMITH, Gerald Owen Florence, Mississippi Armed bank robbery
SMITH, Stephen A.
SPEAKE, Jimmie Lee Breckenridge, Texas Conspiracy to possess and utter counterfeit $20 Federal Reserve notes
STEWART, Charles Bernard Sparta, Georgia Illegally destroying U.S. Mail
STEWART-ROLLINS, Marlena Francisca Euclid, Ohio Conspiracy to distribute cocaine
SYMINGTON, John Fife, III
TANNEHILL, Richard Lee Reno, Nevada Conspiracy and restraint of trade
TENAGLIA, Nicholas C. Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania Receipt of illegal payments under the Medicare program
THOMAS, Gary Allen Lancaster, Texas Theft of mail by postal employee
TODD, Larry Weldon Gardendale, Texas Conspiracy to commit an offense against the U.S. in violation of the Lacey Act and the Airborne Hunting Act
TREVINO, Olga C. Converse, Texas Misapplication by a bank employee
VAMVOUKLIS, Ignatious Exeter, New Hampshire Possession of cocaine
VAN DE WEERD, Patricia A. Tomahawk, Wisconsin Theft by a U.S. Postal employee
WADE, Christopher V.
WARMATH, Bill Wayne Walls, Mississippi Obstruction of correspondence
WATSON, Jack Kenneth Oakridge, Oregon Making false statements of material facts to the U.S. Forest Service
WEBB, Donna Lynn Panama City, Florida False entry in savings and loan record by employee
WELLS, Donald William Phenix City, Alabama Possession of an unregistered firearm
WENDT, Robert H. Kirkwood, Missouri Conspiracy to effectuate the escape of a federal prisoner
WILLIAMS, Jack L. Making false statements to federal agents
WILLIAMS, Kevin Arthur Omaha, Nebraska Conspiracy to distribute and possess with intent to distribute crack cocaine
WILLIAMS, Robert Michael Davison, Michigan Conspiracy to transport in foreign commerce securities obtained by fraud
WILSON, Jimmie Lee Helena, Arkansas Converting property mortgaged or pledged to a farm credit agency, and converting public money to personal use
WINGATE, Thelma Louise Sale City, Georgia Mail fraud
WOOD, Mitchell Couey Sherwood, Arkansas Conspiracy to possess and to distribute cocaine
WOOD, Warren Stannard Las Vegas, Nevada Conspiracy to defraud the United States by filing a false document with the Securities and Exchange Commission
WORTHEY, Dewey Conway, Arkansas Medicaid fraud
YALE, Rick Allen Belleville, Illinois Bank fraud
YASAK, Joseph A. Chicago, Illinois Knowingly making under oath a false declaration regarding a material fact before a grand jury
YINGLING, William Stanley Interstate transportation of stolen vehicle
YOUNG, Phillip David Little Rock, Arkansas Interstate transportation and sale of fish and wildlife

That's a mighty impressive list. Full of perjury, drug distribution and multiple fraud cases. It should be interesting to tune into talk radio tomorrow and listen to the likes of Randi Rhodes, Jerry Springer and Al Fraken talk about how dispicable Bush is for doing something every president does. Yet the humorous part is that most on the list you just provided certainly deserve more time in prison. Heck, ole' Bill himself lied under oath and never saw any time either. Partisan politics, gotta love it.

If they're smart, they'll hold on to the fact as well and save it for when they need it. What do they honestly have to gain by firing that shot right now? The lower guys in the polls will try and trot it out, but at least the top 3 on the Democratic side need to save this to distract the public at a later point, when it is needed, IMO.

That's the only possibility I can see that just "might" help save the GOP on this one.

It may be LONG enough AWAY from the elections,that its impact will fade before the elections get here.

But I think they will use it as a "piece of the puzzle" rather than pick it apart untill later. But the media? They're going to have a field day with it and it is going to hurt.

Many people thought that this administration was "abovbe reproach" and the cracks keep openning wider while the ship is taking on water.

I just feel many moderates and conservatives had questions about the Iraq intel. And now,they may be feeling a bit abandoned by this administration. Time will tell I guess.

I'm an independant voter and hold no allegiance to any party. I think both sides have their fair share of shady individuals. But some take it far more serious than that.

JMHO

I'm not sure the commutation will hurt the Republicans election chances. After all, Bush isn't running again. Most of the GOP Presidential contenders will point out that Bush was attempting to help a loyal "soldier," and will keep their comments to along those lines, neither confirming nor denying approval of the commutation. That will help them with their base, but won't help against the Dems. Right now however, their goal is to please the base without angering the moderates. After gaining the GOP nomination, Dems will try to pin the GOP nominee down to his true opinions. By then, a year later, the commutation may be too far in the past to be a factor in the election.

By the time Bush's time in office is over, this will be the least of his problems, but the liberal media will have a field day with this.

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But I'll BET YOU MONEY that when the 08 elections are over,we'll have a Deomocrat monopoly in our entire government.

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There is a very good chance that was going to happen anyway... But just for fun, I hope the dems make a REALLY big deal out of this... because by election time, nobody will care. Come election time this will be a minor blip on a huge radar and, while I wouldn't put it past the dems to focus on something so totally irrelevant, this won't make or break the election for anybody...

I just lost what little respect I had for Mr. Obama. The hypocrisy in this statement is baffling. He doesn't even have his facts straight. Libby wasn't charged with "compromising national security".
web page

Obama statement on Bush decision to commute Libby's sentence
| July 02, 2007
Barack Obama today released the following statement on President Bush's decision to commute the sentence of Scooter Libby.

"This decision to commute the sentence of a man who compromised our national security cements the legacy of an Administration characterized by a politics of cynicism and division, one that has consistently placed itself and its ideology above the law. This is exactly the kind of politics we must change so we can begin restoring the American people's faith in a government that puts the country's progress ahead of the bitter partisanship of recent years."

"That's WHY they wait untill after the elections. Because if they did it BEFORE,it gives it time to fester,to infect the voters. You'll figure it out. It just takes some longer than others."

Riiiiight... Ask Marion Barry how much that whole festering thing hurt him.

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"This decision to commute the sentence of a man who compromised our national security cements the legacy

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He's not saying that's what he's charged with.. he's implying that Libby was behind it or deeply involved in it... something for which Libby was never tried and never found guilty... but saying, "commuting the sentence of a man who committed perjury..." just doesn't have the same ring to it and probably hits a bit too close to home for democrats anyway... if they have to actually admit that that is a serious crime...

The dems will float this out there, they'll hit all of the talk shows about it, then they'll do their polling to see if it's getting any traction so they know how hard to go with it... my guess is they will find that not many people care about it.

I feel you are mistaken DC. The main reason why IMO,is a simple one. Because wheather people wish to isolate the infraction as "perjury" in and of itself,in the context in which it was commited,presents a much darker cloud in reality.

Stealing is stealing. No matter what you steal,theft itself is a serious offense. The same with perjury. But if you rob a bank,the penalty is far more severe than stealing an apple at your local grocery store. In both cases it's theft. But the law dictates guilt by "degree's"

Now wheather you agree with how that principal works is neither here nor there. But it is a point of law. And likewise,I think the public in general understands and comprehends "this offense".

Prosecuter Fitzgerald has made it abundantly clear,that he can not get to the truth of the Plame investigation because of this perjury The public understands that Libby is lying to cover up the facts on this matter. Then,those above him who from all outward appearances are the very people he's covering for commute his sentence? Yes,that's a pretty big deal IMO

People see that ANYONE who attempted to question The White House assertions on the war,no matter how valid,were attacked "beyond the point of law". And that perjury was commited to help cover up the truth of just how far they did go.

So yes,I think in the days to come,you'll see just how much this will effect undecided and moderate voters. And I certainly expect things to get even worse if the White House doesn't become more forthright and open with the Justice department in the months ahead.

The people see that many alligations leading up to this war were false. They see high administration officials,resigning and at least one to this point commiting perjury to keep the people from "getting to the truth". They see a White House thumbing its nose at Congress,the Senate Judiciary committe and the Justice Department. A smug grop that from outward appearance at least,seem accountable to no one.

It wreaks far more of totalitarianism,than a democracy. And the picture gets uglier with the passing of time. I know everyone will have counterpoints and bring up Clinton,yada,yada,yada.

Problem is? Those are the same folks who claim to defend our legal system. The same people who say "two wrongs don't make it right". The same people who preach and spout personal responsibility. They'll abandon their own principals in order to defend the indefensible. Such is politics...............

Know what I think is "funny" about this whole situation..... Paris Hilton spent more time in jail than Libby.... Of course, she was a Hollywood Celebrity and not a Beltway Insider....

Sorry, in that article there is NO mention that Libby took the fall for anyone else. It did say, however, that the punishment was too severe. You said he was given this reprieve because he took the fall for others. Again, you have proof of that? I didn't think so. The only thing absurd is you stating facts that aren't really facts but your biased opinion

You know what I think is funny is all those thinking Bush was doing something terrible. Judging from the last high ranking official to be caught in perjury, he didn't commute Libby's sentence enough. After all, the last high ranking official that was caught committing perjury wasn't even brought to trial and is enjoying his time as the husband of a woman running for president.

Ah,the "two wrong's make it right" theory. I knew it wouldn't take someone so supportive of law enforcement,the justice system and character to use such a rationalization.

The official you are referring to... was tried in the Senate (a jury of his peers) and found "Not Guilty".... Libby was tried by a jury of his peers, and found "Guilty".... Big Difference.... not to mention the different types of circumstances the two of them were trying to cover up....

Actually, he WASN'T "tried", he was brought up for impeachment. He CLEARLY lied while under oath. Are you SERIOUSLY disputing that? It is a fact. I know that breaks alot of the left's hearts, but it IS a fact. No criminal charges were ever brought.

Different circumstances? Lying while under oath is perjury. There are no degrees. Of course, I KNEW that someone would try to rationalize and differentiate. The crime is the same. Sorry.

LOL, thought you were ignoring me, Pit. Oh, that's right, only when I called you on you hypocrisy and you figured it died down.

Again, where is the EVIDENCE that Libby was protecting someone. The prosecutor said he couldn't get to the truth, but that isn't EVIDENCE. I realize that when it is someone YOU want to have in legal trouble, you forgo that little technicality...as long as it isn't about someone smoking pot.

As for two wrongs don't make a right, who said it did? I'm referring to the hypocrisy of whining about Libby not going to jail for perjury after all the Dims were whining that Clinton shouldn't FOR THE SAME CRIME. See how that works, Pit...I'm reminding them of their stance of THIS PARTICULAR CRIME when it was their hero. Just like the post above rationalizing the crime away. That was the point of the post. Of course, you are so hellbent on trying to find something more than what is there that rational thought doesn't enter your posts....but that's nothing new.

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The official you are referring to... was tried in the Senate (a jury of his peers) and found "Not Guilty"....

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LMAO.. perhaps we should let the Bengals try Chris Henry, then he can also say he was tried "by a jury of his peers"...

Pit, I understand what you're saying about the degree of the crimes.. I'm just not convinced the average American is going to care about this... and I think it would be a serious mistake for the Dems to make it any kind of centerpiece to their campaign...