DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Front Office...continued

Isn't this like the 100th thread on the subject? Beating that old dead horse won't change nada.
JMHO.

Not paying Schwartz was moronic. Im glad he walked if the original offer was rescinded....he was worth every bit that original offer was and maybe a little bit more....ask our Qb this year if he was worth the money LOL

You know he had to be chuckling at the Browns QB getting smeared every play

Arguably there's most ego driven and crucial blunder to date.

Schwartz was moronic thumbing his nose to the best contract offered him.

When is it moronic to gamble a bit and test the waters for more money, and because of that, ending up taking a 5 year $33 mil deal with a playoff caliber team instead of staying with the last place Browns?

Because by most he wanted to stay in Cleveland.

There's nothing wrong with seeing what other offers are on the table. That's the agent's job. The moronic thumbing of the nose was Sashi pulling the offer simply because his feelings were hurt. Ego-driven, BS, bush-league, amateur move.

jc

I hope the harvard boys were watching the post season so they can see what a winning football team looks like.

The agent's job was to thumb his nose at the best offer then sign with a team paying less? That seems more moronic!

It was a failure by both parties.

Just how many of the other 30 teams made offers?

And nobody on either side of this issue was in the room to know the details. Everyone is just assuming based on their own bias.

+1, reported he went to team offering less money.....duh, did he want to leave, seems to me that was the case.....Go Browns

How do you get "Thumbing his nose" from "seeing what other offers are on the table"? They checked his value to the market, nothing wrong with that. When they tried to take the higher offer, Sashi pulled it because it offended his sensibilities. Instead of just getting him signed, the simplest, most basic, fundamentally correct thing he could have done. I guess Sashi showed him - and us - who's boss. Go Sashi!



What difference does it make? None. Browns pulled the offer like little whiners, he took the second highest offer and went to the playoffs. Who cares how many other teams made offers? Fans got boned. The team got boned. The QBs got boned, and the O-line got boned. Even Sashi got boned. All of those people got boned because of a stupid ego play.

JMHO

I wouldn't necessarily call it a mistake by the front office. More of a mistake by Schwartz.

He had until the opening of the FA period to accept the offer. He did just that. Then this FO pulled the offer. And as much as people say he signed for less, he actually got more guaranteed money.

That what players look for in a contract.

The front office made offers to both Schwartz and Mack, but to look elsewhere.

Both could have been the highest paid at their position (minus the insane contract for philly's RT). They both chose to leave and not sign the contracts with the Browns.

The Browns moved on. I can't blame either Schwartz or Mack.

Do you blame the front office....players leaving losing I understand, but to put "blame" on front office makes NO sense to me.....GO Browns!!!

The only failure is the Browns win loss record.

No reason to blame the front office. They were willing to pay both and both decided no.

I thought the offer was only good if he didn't shop elsewhere. Not that that's a good thing.

I think the FO was a little too focused on not getting played to help their players get better deals elsewhere.

In the end, it wasn't a good thing for the Browns that he signed elsewhere.

I'm just wondering.....

Since this was well before the draft, who exactly had the Browns "moved onto" by the first day of FA signing?

I think there is a difference between "moved on" and "moved onto".

Okay, answer it the other way. There was no plan in place moving forward and neither position was adequately addressed.

I think you're 100% right, Pitt. Without the benefit of hindsight, Mack's departure was planned for, but Schwartz's was not. We all know how poorly Erving did, but he was a first round draft pick with a year under his belt that was looking to pick up the reins. RT we had nothing but the FA scrap heap and the later rounds of the draft.

Schwartz wanted to go he turned down the best offer given to him he had only one other offer out of thirty teams and he had taken less to go. If he wanted to stay he would have taken the more than FAIR offer the Browns had made him.

Just as Schwartz had the option to shop the free market the Browns had to option to adjust their offer once he chose to shop.

I believe this to be the most accurate assessment of the situation.

Schwartz believed he was worth more than the second highest paid RT in the game. If anything I'd blame his agent.

Browns probably felt Pasztor was an adequate RT while they groomed the likes of Drango and Coleman during a rebuilding season. I still wouldn't discredit one of them as being our RT of the future. Not every player has to come from the first 2 rounds.

I'm not sure I totally agree with that. There hasn't been anything conclusive put out there, so all we can do is speculate.

It seems to me, that when Schwartz went out and tested the market, and didn't get what he wanted, he then came back to Cleveland, and we started jerking him around. I don't understand why we would modify our offer at all once we made our proposal. The dollar amount that we value his services shouldn't change if he decides to test the market.

I believe Mack wanted to leave, and did the first real opportunity that he could. I think Schwartz wanted to get paid, but also wanted to stay in Cleveland. It's all speculation, so who really knows... :-/

If by "we started jerking him around." you mean adjusted offer to fit FAIR market value.

I agree. Test the market and you might not like what you find.

If I hand him a good offer and he seeks to play off of that and comes back wanting to sign, I am going to play him down. That's telling me I offerd too much.

You don't think adjusting an offer down when a guy comes back from testing the market (assuming that's actually what happened here) is being petty and cheap? I do.

I would agree. It's old news now, but if they thought he was worth what they initially offered - and they must have - you don't pull the offer just for spite, or to save a few dollars.
Stupid move.

I don't. If you were buying a car on the street, you would.


You offer $9,000 to the seller for a 10 year old truck. He says he has a few more interested people, then comes back and says, OK, I'll take it.



I would say, well, the offer is $8000 now and see where it goes from there.


It isn't being petty or cheap. It's simply good business. Now all of a sudden they have you wondering what the real market value might be, because all along you were prepared to counter higher.

If he turned down the offer thinking he was worth more why would he be willing to accept LESS?

Why was it not an insult for KC to offer less? (being cheap?)

Why did none of the other teams make an offer?(being cheap?)

So none of the other 31 teams thought he was worth the Browns first offer.(being cheap?)

I can respect your points, I simply view it differently. For the sake of the football team , they should have said 'great, the offer stands, now sign it and let's move forward.'

Edit: removed borderline masked profanity

Bad for business you'd go broke, In both cases they make FAIR offers sending the message they are willing to spend but don't want to be used as a leverage tool for the agent to get more money.

A bad 'business' move in this case was losing a better-than-average RT, creating one more issue that needed to be addressed.