DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Garoppolo Part Four

Well the Superbowl is over. I wonder how long till Jimmy G. is traded or if he is traded at all. I imagine they take a week off to celebrate and relax but who knows Bill might start taking offers today even.

I hope we can land Jimmy G.

Trading period begin March 9th. So another full month of speculating and debate....

....YES!

Vers...
How do you come to the conclusion that Jimmy G. is a quality QB? I personally haven't seen enough from him to make that determination. Which is why I don't want to give to much up for him. I think there is chance he could be but who really knows. I'm not arguing with your opinion on the guy, just want to know what makes you so sure about him.

There were a lot of posters who wanted Jimmy before that draft - many thought he could be the best out of the whole draft class. So he has definitely had support and admirers for a long time.

The 1 1/2 games starting for NE - to me is a double edged sword. Belichick is such a good coach and when Brady was hurt in 2008 and Cassel started - he led them to a 11-5 record and looked very good. . . . 2016 Brady banned and Jimmy steps in and .... looks very good.

Cassel outside of NE was average. What is Jimmy going to be?

I didn't / haven't watched tape on Cassel to see how he looked in those starts in 2008. NFL front offices did though and decided he was worth a big contract. So there has to be some risk with Jimmy too - but depending on the cost, I would certainly send a package of picks for him. I am still not going to give up my #1 of #12 picks to get him. And if Trubisky isn't there at #12 (I doubt he is) and if Jimmy is traded to another team, I don't know what the move is at QB. I heard a lot of love for Tyrod Taylor ... I haven't seen enough of him but I prefer a pocket passer than a scrambler so my instinct is 'meh' on Taylor.

I was gonna bring up Cassel as an example. So I'm with you on that. I like Trubisky a lot, but I'm completely sold just yet. I think he's the best this year, easily. If you like pocket passers what about taking a look a Glennon? Or maybe using a later pick on Webb from Cal? I think he's got some tools the other QBs in this draft just don't. He's a couple years away, and needs a ton of work, especially running a real offense and footwork, but he's got to be a smart kid, it is Cal.

Personally not a fan of trading a first round pick for Jimmy. I think that's what it will take.

I think we are better served to get the best players available with our picks. Build up the roster, then make a play for QB.

Despite what people think I believe we aren't that far away.

Let's go with Kessler in 2017.

Oh no

I get the hesitation on Jimmy due to him being unproven. Another poster said that he thought it would take a first to get Jimmy, I am not so sure. I think that #33 and maybe something else will do it.

However, Trubisky is the poster child for "unproven." His college sample size is very small. And, in my opinion, in order to draft Trub or Watson we will have to use the #1 pick. Teams will reach for both of those guys and neither will, in my opinion, make it to #12.

I agree with your post except for go with Kessler. That I'm not sure about.

The entire organization has to decide what they want at quarterback.

Obviously last year there were different pages. Hue says trust him with Kessler. But the team also signed RG3. Those guys probably or should require a different style offense to be successful. I can't imagine Hue brought both quarterbacks in thinking they could be interchangeable. I don't think of RG3 as a pocket passer, and Kessler isn't the run threat that Griffin is...

Whomever picks the quarterback needs to figure out what they want. Garoppolo is like Kessler only with a little stronger of an arm... which is why I say stick with Kessler. It's a lateral move with slightly more NFL experience. Kessler has more game experience and I think that'll show next season.

Hogan is another, but Kessler-Hogan and rookie 2nd rounder and we have very little NFL QB experience.

Don;'t get me wrong, Tom Brady is the greatest QB in NFL History

However, if Brady were to retire, Bellichik could put nearly anyone in his system and still win 10-13 games a year and make the playoffs every year.(Not a Super Bowl but sitll be a winning franchise)

Bellichik has a hell of a system is a hell of a coach. Brady will forever be the absolute best and be the best QB to run Bellichik system, but other QB could run it at an above average level(Cassel and Jimmy).

I would be very cautious trading for Garrapolo for that reason.

If the Browns want to trade for a QB, Trade for Cousins. Cousins has Qb ratings of 97.2 and 101.6 in 16 game consecutive seasons....he would probably be worth giving a 1st rder for he has proven he can play at a high level over 32 games...but Garrapolo is a risk...and New England QB outside of Brady are not gurnateed to be any good....Brady is just in his own league, but Bellichik can make average QB look much better then they actually are

If Garrapollo was was good as folks think, Bellichik would find a way to extend him....Bellichik wouldn't let Brady heir apparent leave if he was any good...food for thought

I would be ok if we pursued him but there's NO WAY a first round pick should even be discussed. That is ridiculous.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-top-targets-for-qb-needy-teams-this-offseason/

Thought this was an interesting article. Has Jimmy listed as the 3rd best option. I'd disagree for a team like the Browns, an aging Romo is going to want to win now, and the Browns need a QB to be around for 4-5-6 years (ideally).

What's even more surprising is seeing Mike Glennon ranked at #4.

It depends on what you are trying to do. If you want an upside play you take him or Garoppolo. If you have a great defense and running game, you take Taylor. If you have everything besides a QB, you take Romo.

The biggest wildcard on that list is Cutler. He is super talent, but is also a major turd. I'd probably put him fourth on that list.

Good article.

I would have AJ and JG at the same value. I would have Hoyer at the bottom of the list.

And I know he's unpopular but on that list Cutler (depending on cost) would be my 3rd QB.

1-Tyrod
2-Romo
3-Cutler
4-Glennon
5-AJ and JG
6-Hoyer

I guess I just see zero upside w/ Glennon.

Out of curiosity why do you think Glennon any less upside as the other QBs with limited sample size?

I think his sample size is rather significant and didn't think he was very good.

Your kidding right? I'm sure you just said that off the top of your head because they are nowhere even close to being alike. Kessler takes forever to make a decision and gets beat up while holding on to the ball forever. A big reason for that is that he can't process the field well enough due to limited field vision. Jimmy is the complete opposite where he makes decisions very fast and generally knows everything going on with the defense.

I will grant that they are both similar in being fearless in the pocket and willing to take a hit to deliver the ball. They are both also high character people who are great people personality wise.

Cassel, Hoyer, Mallett- these names do not build confidence in any Pats backup....NONE did well with their next teams- Hoyer, the best probably- don't trade for Jimmy, please....GO Browns

PS JMHO, we aren't close- do we hurt QB throwing him to wolves, was Kessler hurt more or help by getting beat down last year

I actually agree with devicedawg.

I'm not an advocate for Glennon. But objectively speaking his performance wasn't bad. Especially when you consider the circumstances.

He has 18 starts, which for me still makes him a developing QB rather then a finished product.

Glennon seems like the kind of QB that will stick around in the NFL for a while. Get a chance due to injury in his 30s and have a good stretch, and then get paid by a few more teams without really doing much..

Wait..

I agree with comp device dawg made

Kessler is a rhythm QB known for quick decision making.
Those are also strengths of JG.
But JG has a cleaner throwing motion and a stronger arm AND plays in an ALREADY high functional offensive system.

Kessler didn't have that luxury AND was forced out of comfort zone of quick rhythm WCO passing into a down the field vertical passing game.

Also what is the basis of your SPECULATION about Kessler's 'limited field vision' and ~'inability to process information'?

Wow some of you guys ... it's like mind numbing to me at times.

Kessler doesn't have anything similar at all with Jimmy G. in playstyle.

For one thing Jimmy G. actually knows how to read a defense. Probably because he used to play Linebacker before converting to a QB. He just has a different mind set. He is also not a rhythm passer. I don't even know where you get that from. His WR were no where near good enough in college to rely on for that kind of offense. They were scrappy but they were horrible route runners. NONE of them made it to the NFL as a WR although one warms the bench as a CB.

Jimmy reads a defense, predicts who will be open, and the space they will go to. He trusts his decisions and puts the ball on the money and leading the WR to open space whenever possible. For all that he is not afraid to just let one rip once ina while to catch the defense off guard. He can throw a very pretty deep pass right into a bucket at times. Sometimes he tends to overthrow when he goes deep though.

Cody tries to read the defense and does an OK job of it. You can tell he is not seeing the way to throw them open though because he locks up with doubt about making a throw. It's killing him. He has the arm to throw it. It's his inability to decipher defenses quickly enough because he is not seeing everything he should and keeps getting burned by the guy he doesn't see. Part of that is that he can't trust our chit o-line to block long enough for him to see a WR open. The other part is lack of vision and processing speed.

To me they are nothing alike at all. Cody is just your typical mediocre QB who is just winging it the best he can. Jimmy is at a whole nother level of awareness and precision.

I'm on the phone but razor do you even know what a rhythm passer means?

U guys amaze me ... I'm not making a case for Cody to be our long term starter at QB but he will be a different and better QB than last year ... U guys act like he was a finished QB and won't improve ... he should look like an entirely different QB next year ...

If we decide to wait til next year to adress the QB situation ... Cody will be in the mix for starter and will be a much better QB next year ... he won't resemble what we saw this year ... hopefully at some point u guys understand that ... *LOL* ... who am i kidding ..

I agree with bone .. they'll adress it this year ... and that could be a mistake ... Jimmy's gonna cost the farm ... there's no one in FA worthy (Cousins will be a skin .. NO WAY they let him walk .. all the chatter your hearing is about writers getting the only thing that matters today .. getting hits) ... and their's no QB worth the #1 in the draft and Watson and Mitch are gone by 12 ... taking Kizer there would be a FATAL mistake ...

I hope we adress the D early and often and wait to go after our QB next year ... if not that .. either Mitch or Jimmy G ... hopefully they don't cost us the 1st pick if thats the route we go ...

Agreed !

I'd be fine with that. Maybe draft a developmental guy late but definitely don't reach for talent that isn't there.

Likewise.

Whut? Lol, okay. Then how would you describe the Patriots offense? If J.Polo isn't a rhythm passer then what kind of passer do you think he is?

In your opinion.

Again, speculated in your opinion.

What specifically can you point to that supports these speculations?

For a rookie QB playing in this offense and under the direct edict to push the ball downfield of course there are going to be growing pains. Cody was one of the most pressured QBs in the league (all Browns QBs really). But you can see Cody has the ability to get the ball out of his hands. He was the fastest of the 3 QBs in time from snap to release. Despite being pressured nearly 50% of the time he was very good under pressure.... he was #2 in the league under pressure (just below Tom Brady).

Cody is a rookie QB playing in brand new offense. New to him, new to the coaches, new to the players. Rookie WR, a converted QB in his 1st real season as a WR. IF you cannot see how playing in a proven and established system that everyone on the offense knows coaches, players and playing behind Tom Brady is a benefit to Jimmy's 'awareness' we can't have a real discussion about this.

Kody and J. Polo similarities are (1) they are both accurate (2) both are rhythm passers (3) both are more athletic then given credit for.

Jimmy has a stronger arm and a much cleaner throwing motion. Oh, and Jimmy has the benefit for playing for the Patriots.

Clearly the superior arm strength and cleaner throwing motion imo make Jimmy a superior prospect. But there are similarities.

Jimmy Garapollo is more a product of Bellichik and his system then him being a good QB. I don't think he is any good without Bellichik

I'd rather take a chance in the draft with Watson/Trubisky or sign Tyrod Taylor rather then trade for Jimmy. Bellichik has a very good way of making average players look much better then they are. Look at the PATS Wr. they would struggle and probably not even start on another team. Yet, the Bellichik system and Brady makes them look beastly.

If we trade with the Pats I fear we will be disappointed. I just don't see Jimmy being successful without Bellichik.

JG may be good he may not. I agree I'd rather draft and try to develop our own guy. Keep all our picks.

The point is we already have Garoppolo on the team. Kessler. I doubt Garoppolo will be a world beater, we aren't trading for Brady.

And I disagree. I think Garoppolo holds the ball too long as well. If he was here last year he would have looked like Kessler.

And I do believe it'll take at least one of our 1st round picks to acquire Garoppolo. Most people are comparing him to Alex Smith and that it should only cost a second rounder and future conditional. A bit different situation, Garoppolo is somewhat of an unknown and you end up paying more for the unknown. Think Rob Johnson when the Bills traded a 1st and 4th for him. It should cost at least this...

+1 A much better option I mean I would hate to end up in the Texans position having a QB that they owe $72 Million that is worthless ...

That is why I would probably hold off on QB this year. Kessler should improve. He may not ever be a great player, but he might become a good player.

Either way, I like to bring in some players to form a solid group in front of and with the next QB.

If we are going to go all in, make it next year. If we want to add to the chits to use next year, trade down from 12. We already have two 2nd rounders next year. We could add another, if not a first. We can also add in a future 1st rounder to move up next year.

I'd like to see the Kessler pick play out a little longer before we call him a career back-up.

Hopefully he's not been Colt McCoy'd already..

Is that his salary for the upcoming season? $72M? If we trade for Jimmy we do not owe him $72M.

I would hate to end up in the Browns position where they reach for a QB in the draft, watch him fail, and then reach for another one in 2-3 years. If we plan on finding a QB this year in the draft, to come in be the "man" it will cost us the #1 pick, because I can't see Trub, Watson or Kizer making it to 12. Which will cost us a shot at someone who can actually help this team (Garrett). And taking any of them anywhere in the 1st round is a reach.

If we do not trade for Jimmy, so be it. But drafting a QB early in this draft would be a yuge mistake.

So it looks like a year of Kesler. Five yards and a slight breeze. And a shot at the #1 pick.