DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Does Hue Need an O Coordinator?

Peen, the term 'arm talent' seems a bit overly vague. I would agree that it probably means something different than accuracy. My guess is that Hue grew tired of not having any QB's willing to push the ball down the field (aside from maybe McCown, but he's not really an option at this point). I'm wondering if maybe he feels guys like Pryor and Coleman can help mitigate any QB accuracy issues and might be willing to go with more of a "gun slinger" type?

So, my interpretation of your position on the Horton firing is that I don't think you are upset specifically about Horton getting the boot as much as you are about the apparent lack of consistency in the standards by which the coaches are judged? Would that be a fair assessment?

Horton turns in a bottom dwelling defense and is let go, but Hue turns in a bottom dwelling offense and still has his seat. Consistency in standards would mean either they both stay or they both go.

I get that. I wouldn't say I necessarily disagree with that. I guess the only thing I can say to that is it's good to be the boss? It's not fair, but it is what it is. If I showed up drunk to work I'd be fired. A few years back we had a major show up drunk he got demoted.

Now in regards to Hue's performance... I guess it depends on how much tolerance Jimmy, the FO, and the "plan" have for the offense.

I do agree with what someone wrote above in that if the offense has another lackluster year, we'll be looking at a fulltime OC in Hue's 3rd year... assuming there is a 3rd year.

My gut feeling is that if Hue can't show any improvement with next year's offense, his whole ability to be a HC will be brought in to question.

Dang dude.. what I wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall in Berea! Speculating about what goes on can be fun, but sometimes it would be nice to have validation that we know what the hell we're talking about lol

Probably so. I think we saw severl times that Hue looked frustrated because we didn't go deep. I guess what we couldn't see unless at the game was how many times did Pryor and or Coleman have a step on their guy and we didn't make the play and dumped if off short?

It really serves no purpose to have receivers who can press the deep routes but a QB who can't get it to them.

Could Tom Clements be interested? He appears to be leaving the Packers...

I don't know if Hue wants to bring in anyone in or not. But, even if he does, I think it would be hard to attract solid candidates like Clements because of how often the Browns fire coaches and Hue's obsession w/power. Not having much say and knowing that you will be the first scapegoat is not the most appealing situation in the world.

I think it's pretty clear we aren't hiring anyone.

Both Super Bowl QBs (Ryan and Brady) work with House in the off-season.

Not sure I used the word "mess," but the Brown's organization has been unstable for years. They are always firing someone. That isn't news. It isn't debatable. Neither is their atrocious record over the years.

Even a guy like me who "doesn't know football" can figure that one out.

Not sure how House has a grasp of our playbook?

What exactly does House teach in his football camps?

I know that Tom was a former major league pitcher and a pitching coach at the major league level for many years. I have one of his books.

When did he start with football? I am not saying he can't teach football mechanics because they are much easier than pitching mechanics. Just wondering how long he has been at it with football and who taught him? I know he a guru in kenitics, so throwing is throwing. Balance, hips, shoulders, arms,then trigger.



Might be a google search in the near future.

Interesting read on House.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82...fl-quarterbacks

J/c

I am not sure why House was mentioned in relation to whether the Browns need an OC or not?

LOL..........I think I know why.

Pick up the book The QB by Feldman

A good description of House's philosophy and methods are described in detail.

I'm under the impression that practically every quarterback in the country is visiting him these days.

I think it's pretty clear there aren't many good ones out there.

Right now I look at McCarthy and O'Brien as two guys who call the plays as head coaches. Both of them relinquished those duties, and felt like they had to take them back in order to avoid a disaster. In both cases they came off looking like they were right. Why doesn't Bellichick run his own defense? He is clearly more capable than any defensive coordinator he has ever had. Heck, I recently watched video of Paul Brown asking Bill Walsh what plays he wanted to run in a crucial situation.

The post about bringing in a young guy and then training him to your philosophy makes sense. I suspect that is exactly what happened with Hue bringing in Hamilton. My question, based on my observations, is that Hamilton may be better inclined to coach at the college level. I have never thought that he is a very good coach. My opinion was that he rode Harbaugh's and Luck's coat strings into an NFL gig. His lack of success at the NFL level has been well-established. Maybe it's just his personality, his ability to relate to NFL players versus those at the college level. I don't know. I suspect he may be over-rated at both. I am encouraged by both Hamilton and Horton being gone.

Anyway you look at it, it comes down to us taking a long, hard, honest look at Hue.

As a head coach he was 8-8 with the Raiders. Although that was an improvement for them, he was let go.

He is a good offensive coordinator. Whether he is a great one, or would be considered in the top five in the NFL would probably be up for debate.

As a head coach, I can't help reflecting back to Diam's specific posts concerning mistakes he has made throughout this past season. Combine this with the one season he had in Oakland.

Is he really a quarterback guru? The Big Show had a direct hand in developing Montana, Favre, and Young. That is my idea of a Quarterback guru. The Wentz thing looks like something we all would prefer to pretend just didn't happen - - I wish it would just go away.

I do like Hue for all the qualities you guys consistently apply to him. But, when it comes to the Browns, I reject living in "pretend world".

I kind of answered my own question in the same post.

Like I said, I have a book by House. I have been to Tennessee Baseball Coaches Association clinics, where House was a guest speaker one year.

I was very familiar with him as a pitching coach for the last 25 years or so. I just didn't know he was doing football as well. I think House has a PhD in Kenitics. He studies throwing motions.

As I said earlier, there are far more teaching points in pitching a baseball than throwing a football, so it makes sense he would take that on.

In many ways, he is using the same teaching points. Balance, arm position, stride, release. You just don't have as many movements to tie together in football as you do in baseball.

No problem my friend. I have no problem with our guys seeking coaching.

No problem, tab. We all misspeak at times.

Was hoping for some opinions on whether we should.

I get that most don't want to put themselves out there on the subject of Hue. Not yet.

My gut tells me that I would like Hue to work intently on his Head Coaching skills. I think we need a better one than we saw this year. A better one than the Raiders saw a few years back.

If there is a good Offensive Coordinator out there, he is probably holding his breath for a call from Dan Quinn.

So, where does that leave us?

I'm not feeling very comfortable about it. I think things are getting better. I disagree with some on the board. The direction we are headed could work. But, just like many decisions that have come at crucial times, I'm scratching my head.

Does Hue need an Offensive Coordinator? Should Hue be calling the plays? Is he talented enough as a Head Coach where these additional duties aren't that big of a deal?

I'm hoping for ol dawg to put himself out. Somebody like Clem, etc...

Hue Jackson has an enormous ego. I said this when we hired him. It does not surprise me that he wants to control everything about the offense. He basically tried to take over the entire Raiders organization when Al Davis died.



The rumor is that they are interested in Chip Kelly.

source?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/spor...m=.e5fee1d2b81d

http://www.thefalcoholic.com/2017/2/5/14...ia-eagles-49ers

http://www.oregonlive.com/nfl/index.ssf/2017/02/chip_kelly_a_legit_option_for.html

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...han-in-atlanta/

Just hire Bellichik's QB coach and make him the OC and bring Bellichik O system to Cleveland

that way we can win 10 games with a late rd QB...if Matt Cassell can win 10 games in that system any QB can.

Not going to happen. We hired Hue's system.


As long as Hue is head coach, we run his system. It's going to be pretty much impossible to hire a OC who is just going to step in and take over another persons system. You aren't a oc, you are a play caller....wait, you don't even get to call the plays. How's that going to work?

The reality is that Hue is probably not a head coach. He is a good coordinator. Much like Romeo and lots of others. As a coordinator, Romeo is very good. As a head coach, not so much.

Hue has said he will adapt his system to cater to the players he has to work with, so to think he is inflexible about the system is a bit unwarranted IMHO.

That was one of the reason he fired Horten because he was too inflexible and didn't teach the basics well enough.

while it might be cool for me...or even awesome to be able to say
"what do you do?"
me: "I call the offensive plays for the Browns."

prolly not so much for a real OC...

so unless Hue finds someone who almost mirrors his style of play calling and philosophy. prolly won't be a OC here next year either.

I think he needs one and should focus on HC duties whatever they may be.

so to be clear, I think Hue maybe taking on too much. I am to believe that HC duties and OC duties are two completely different things.

too me it's why work 80 hours a week when you should be working 40 hours a week?

kinda smacks of ego a bit...hope not. I want him here for the next ten years. let's just try it one time for kicks and giggles and see what happens.

my biggest hope right now is the HC, OC, and DC all stay here for the next decade, and make their systems work.

I don't know that it is too much. I think he wants to turn over the D. I guess it could be viewed as head coach of the D.

There are other coaches who call the plays during games.

Lets see how it works once we have a D that can get off the field and a O that can string together some long scoring drives.

I think Williams is basically gonna be the Defensive Head coach. Almost like Hue isn't even going to have any responsibility there

Are we implying that the problems and mistakes we saw this season were due to Hue having to step in and assume some responsibility for the defense?

If I am a Texans or a Packers fan, I'm wondering if we can actually win a Super Bowl without freeing up our Head Coach to focus on...

Head Coaching

Is McCarthy or O'Brien good enough?

Is Hue?

Not sure what you mean, my friend?

I think Hue is going to call plays and run his O. I think it would be hard to hire a coordinator under those parameters. Face it, running their own O and calling plays is how a O/C makes his name.

I don't have a real problem with that as long as Hue can make it work. Making it work is the only real responsibility of a head coach.

Williams made it plain in a interview that he may not be able to cut a player, that is Hue's job, but when it comes to D, he will determine who will play. He won't bend on that.


It could be a marriage that works.....or one that falls apart early.

I have a feeling that Hue has a good mind for offense, but doesn't really understand how to stop a offense. That is IMO why he wants a strong armed D coordinator and is willing to turn that side of the ball over.

agreed.

I think we have a legit shot to up the defense by a good shot.

focus on D in the draft and FA

then hit the offense again next year...just my thinking on it

I agree. The D is further away then is the O. The team has to make improvements on the field, and the quickest way to do that is to field a good D. I think the braintrust knows this. That's why we saw a D coordinator ride in to town.

If we can get a edge rusher who can pressure the QB, Collins and the others rushing the passer will become better. That in turn will make our cover guys better.

One of the comments by Williams that stuck with me was about corners and the ball going over their head in a hurry. He won't have that. Sure, guys will get beat. Just don't let it happen in the first 3 seconds. Give the line a chance to at least pressure the QB. Pressure leads to sacks and bad throws.

I think it is pretty clear that the corners have 1 responsibility...stick with their guy. They don't have any real run responsibility. That is the job of the line and the backers. Stick with your guy for 3 seconds. Don't even look run until the receiver is trying to block you 20 yards down field. If you get beat after 3 seconds, that's life in the big leagues.

Browns have hired former #Bills assistant David Lee as their QB coach

Cue the Tyrod Taylor comments in 3....2....1....

Josh Reed Retweeted Mary Kay Cabot
David Lee was with #Bills the past 2 seasons. Familiar with Tyrod Taylor a QB the Browns could have interest in if TT hits free agency