DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season 2017 NFL Draft What are our biggest needs from the draft? minus QB.

...Also looks like tarzan, playes like jane.
McDowell is not a prospect I could use a 1st round selection on.

Plays like Jane? Back that statement up because you're probably alone on that. I'll be waiting...

^^^

Phil Taylor, Brandon Weeden and Trent Richardson for Julio Jones.

Really... Show me 1st round production. 1.5 sacks and a whopping 34 tackles.

All that from an undersized DT.

I don't think I said he was worth a 1st round pick. I only used his name as part of the depth there is at DE in this draft. And argued my point that I didn't think he was a good 3 tech. I would agree he doesn't always show up. I do think Williams would get the most out of him.

He'll need to add 20 pounds. I agree he has the athletic ability, but it hasn't thus far translated to the field of play.

Why make him add weight? I'd play him at LDE. He doesn't need to add weight for that. I don't like him as a three tech. just to reiterate.

In that case, I can think of 10 DE's or more that I would rather draft, as it is a deeper position than DT in this years pool.

He probably doesn't have what it takes to play 3T. but what he doesn't have in speed, he does make up with monstrous length. And he's not really lacking in speed all that much. Although, I do think he's an end. He certainly played scared this year, but I can't really blame him for not wanting to get injured.

McDowell is a lot like Nkemdiche was last year, a lot of hype but very little production, yet Nkemdiche went in the 1st rnd to Arizona at pick #29 and I think McDowell will probably go late 1st or early 2nd round also.

I am not sure I understand this comment.

AJ Green was taken fourth in a draft where we had the sixth pick.

I think you mean Julio Jones.

Take a look at this and please comment:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/college-football-is-malik-mcdowell-this-seasons-deforest-buckner/

You could make a strong argument for that although it wouldn't be popular. Especially if you think/grade Hooker/(for me Adams) as a top 5 talent. But then the risk factor becomes if you like them that high others teams might also and you don't want to trade down and lose the player/s you were targeting.

I have seen many preseason projections of prospects that did not live up to the hype.

Thats what you have.

I already told you to show me. don't back down already. Tape or it didn't happen. Production only solidifies tape. Alone it means literally nothing otherwise nate orchard would be von miller.

Umm...okay....his production this year did not match his production in 2015 but it was there and form the tape you can still see the attributes.

I still think he's an LDE or 5-tech and not a 3-tech.

But I just don't see the 'jane' label you're trying to put on him.

You're helping make my point, that's what I've been saying. That he's part of a very deep DE class. I think you're taking what I'm saying as an endorsement for McDowell, It's not. My original point was that maybe we could take Allen at 1 instead of Garrett and still get a DE who can get you 10+ sacks either at 12, 33, or even 52. I look at, we could add two guys who could get 10 sacks each or add one who could get 15.

Yeah, there's always multiple players in one draft who are 10+ sack guys. They're a dime a dozen.

I was higher on drafting Allen at 1, before We hired Williams. I'll stay with Garrett at 1, and bring in a FA DT like Johnath Hankins.

Even better:

Sarcasm?

Last years rookie class had one, Bosa. The 2015 class had 4, Vic Beasley, Marcus Golden, Frank Clark, and Danielle Hunter, The 2014 class had two, Khalil Mack and Dee Ford. The 2013 class had none. The 2012 class had two, nick Perry and Chandler Jones. The entire NFL only had 15 with more then 10 sacks so maybe not quite a dime a dozen. So maybe I exaggerated to emphasize my point, which is that I think two guys with better then average pass rush ability would be better then just Garrett at 1.

You make absolutely no scene what so ever.

If there is no production, there is nothing to 'solidify'.

Are you so naive to think no college player has ever increased their production once reaching the nfl? My goodness are you mistaken. So chandler jones is garbage but mate orchard is an all pro? There are just as many ultra productive college players who busted as there are who underachieving in college and studEd out in the league. Production isn't just on a stat sheet. If you don't watch the game tape your opinion means nothing to me.

What are you like 16. It's the tape that verifies the production, not the other way around. Naive? I've only been evaluating talent for 45 years.

And who are you to make assumptions about what tape I watch? Do you have omnipresents?

I didn't think so.

If you think you can't be naive because of age I'm afraid you're more likely antiquated and arrogant than experienced and educated. I also didn't say you didnt watch tape. IF. Don't be insecure and assume just because I can't give you context with a tone of voice please.

Anywho if you seriously think you can't watch tape and find dominant traits in any prospect who may have had less of a stat sheet than their draft projection then what do these analysts get paid for? Are you so arrogant to think you are vastly better than all of them and it's nOT in the realm of possibilities that a player could forecast an upturn in production upon being utilized properly or with a guiding hand and development? Because that is what you are arguing and that is foolish sir. There are many pros who would prove you wrong.

It's hard enough to project prospects to the next level with production in college.

Projecting one with below average production in three years to the next level is pure projection = a leap of faith. (Faith...the believe in something unseen) I only have faith in one.

I have always put prospects like him in the high risk category and I'm not about to second guess myself now. My track record stands for itself if you care to check the archive's.

Now I did not come here to boost about my track record, but I never cared for the negitive evidence arguments on any subject of debate.

Unlike many so called analyst I dont go gaga of measurables without substance.

Granted anything is possible, but I would rather error on the side of better judgment when it comes to high draft selections.

I don't advocate need based drafting.

But biggest needs for me would be:

Center, CB, OL, Edge rusher, 3-tech, FS

RT and Center are the two biggest needs so that we can keep our QB out of the hospital.

After that CB and FS need a serious upgrade too.

I am assuming that our edge rusher will be myles garrett as I say all this =)

Good post. My apologies if i can be rash im just very straight forward and some people take it as rude. You definitely should be more successful on average if you use production as a prerequisite I can't argue with that. Should being key. I just didn't like how you spoke as if it wasn't possible for a prospect to make that jump. There are more guys than many realize who did that hence why FO's can't just ignore lesser production prospects. Personal preference is perfectly fine. I just stand up for the process and I happen to find malik to be one of the few who have a serious shot to stud.

Although the faith comment. I know what you likely meant but reasons why I'm ok with very few but some prospects like this are because of what I see on tape. Nothing to do with measurables or others opinions. My process is always to watch tape before cRoss checking for stats and other analysis. That way if a guy stands out as a 1st round type grade but then doesn't produce like it I can find out why. That's why I had a problem to begin with on the jane statement. Produced stats like jane? Sure. Play like jane? No way. In my opinion he was insanely disruptive. Not unlike chandler jones at Syracuse whom I mentioned before

And the reality is this isn't a quality OL year. I don't see a center out there that I would take above the 5th round. Tackles, maybe a couple worth a mid 2nd rounder.

Just to many better players at other positions.

I think tyler could be a bonafide starter at center if we are looking for a gem to polish in the third round. Still I agree with you for the most part Ballpeen

Go Browns! At the end of day we all want our team to find a keep success.

I don't know that I want to do a lot of polishing with our 3rd rounder. Remember, that is at the top of the round.

Lets split the difference and say 4th rounder.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2017/02/14...he-intangibles/

Mike Mayock: Jonathan Allen Is A Better Pass Rusher Than Suh, Has All The Intangibles

Does Mayock have Allen ranked ahead of Garrett?

I don't think he's released a big board yet. Just position rankings