DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season 2017 NFL Draft Myles Garrett Discussion

Jadeveon Clowney was also referred to as a physical freak and while I wouldn't call him a bust he definitely hasn't lived up to his number one pick status. I see many similarities in the two, on the field. I don't know how Garrett will turn out, I make no presumptions about that. I just believe Allen could be the safer of the two. Maybe not quite as high a ceiling but a higher floor. A smaller risk if you will. And I think we need to hit on this pick. We missed on too many picks the last few years. That's my reasoning. But my argument for Allen will probably be moot cause I think the Browns will ultimately be taking Garrett.

Will you please expound on those "similarities?"

Agreed. Adams is tied for #3 on my big board.

I think I have MG #1 but just slightly so ahead of Allen
Adams is tied at #3 with Solomon Thomas.
Hooker is #5

If we had stayed as a primarily 3-4 defense then Thomas might actually vault to #1 with Allen a close 2.
MG drops because he is not a 3-4 end and I am not sure about his ability to convert to OLB.

However, It looks like we will be primarily in a 4-3 alignment. This raises a lot of question about Thomas for me. Is he a DE or DT in a 4-3? Is he big enough to play inside and be stout against the run? Is he quick enough and agile enough to get around the edge?

Tough call between Adams and a healthy Hooker. I see Hooker as potentially an Ed Reed clone except less of a hitter. I see Adams a potentially a Trop P clone. Maybe a little smaller. I don't remember how big Troy was.

Adams gives much more support in the run game. Hooker covers a little more ground with the ball in the air.

OK, but you may not like some of it.
explosive pass rusher, freaky athlete, size, consensus number 1 pick going back to his sophomore year, disappears at times, you almost could copy and post an old Clowney scouting report for Garrett. Minus the off-the field issues Clowney had. I don't think Garrett has those issues.

Just so you don't get offended I'm not trying to convince you that Garrett is gonna be a bad player or anything. I just have more questions about the guy then you do, doesn't necessarily mean I think he will be a failure. I thought Clowney was gonna be special, on the field. I think the same about Garrett, but I also think Allen could be special. I think Allen helps in the run game more, I like his versatility more, And from a risk standpoint I think Allen is the safer of the two, and I would hate to see the Browns miss on another pick.

Thanks...

I've seen this though. I don't really understand, and a little confused. I thought you had questions about Garrett?

I agree w/the freaky athleticism part. However, they are different in terms of dedication, being in shape, effort, etc.

I live in Columbia, SC and knew about all the stories regarding Clowney. He was chided for missing time w/mysterious injuries. He was out of shape much of the time. Took all kinds of plays off. Would fall asleep in meetings. Didn't practice all the time.

Other than mac and a couple of others on this board fabricating things, I have not seen reports that Garrett is that kind of player. The guy actually played while injured this year. His character has never been questioned by those at A & M.

With all of that said.........Clowney really came on this year and performed as one of the more dominant players in the league.

Not even close to as bad as we need a pass rusher.

Just think how much better overall our defense would seem if you added a (potentially) 10-15 sack a year guy.

Ogbah gets more room on the other side.

Shelton can't be focused on.

And simply, our DBs would look 10 times better just with the thought of a pass rush.

It's hard enough to cover above average WRs. Try doing it when the QB knows he can just stand there and wait.

Garrett would be perfect in a 43 base

Mac I know you're having several discussions going on with several different posters. But I would love a response to this question where do you rank Garrett as an edge rusher and as an overall Prospect?

Also when you post stats in reference to Garrett you post counting stats not any advanced stats that more accurately capture the impact of a defensive player. Not that there's anything wrong with the stats that you posted but there's more to a defensive player then those stats eg quarterback hits, quarterback pressures, defensive stops are all valuable measurable that display a defensive players impact and Garrett fills those columns up.

I will find my notes on the Kansas State game but I thought that game is already thoroughly covered and one game as you already know doesn't override his entire college career.

I said "on the field" so I was excluding anything that pertained to character issues or maturity level.

I could see Allen getting 10+ sacks a year, he's in the mold of an Arron Donald, Ndamukong Suh, ans Gerald McCoy. Could have the same impact and effect Garrett would. Plus help more in the run game. JMO

Thanks. I suspected that these arguments over Garrett were more or less mountains out of nitpicks. We all agree that Garrett is the top edge rushing prospect and worthy of the #1 pick.

Um....what?

What words have i attempted to put in your mouth? It is important for me to know because i make a concerted effort not to do that.

You even repeated the same thing i attributed to you in my post.

Just as you dont want people putting words in your mouth I likewise dont want to be falsely accused.

Garrett has to be #1. If you want another DT, get one day 2/3.

Caleb Brantley (Florida) is a guy I really like, and think he would do well in b/w Garrett and Shelton.

-Great burst at the snap of the ball for a straight line point of attack.

-Good hands, and has a heck of a fork lift/push combo that has gotten him pressures, sacks, and tfl's.

j/c

From my POV, the question of MG/JA comes down to floor vs. ceiling. JA is the more complete, polished player now, but MG has the higher potential. How will they compare in 3 years? Will Allen's higher floor or Garrett's higher ceiling be the determining factor?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/26933...k-of-2017-draft

Remember Trent Richardson?

There is no such thing has a sure pick in skill positions.

By the way, I'm all for Garrett with the #1, we need an impact player, so take the risk.

I know what you said. However, I do not think that Garrett keeps himself off the field for bogus injuries. I think he is in shape and doesn't ask to be taken off the field like Clowney did. I don't think Garrett is lazy on the field. I think he displays more discipline on the field.

I completely disagree w/those who question his motivation/effort...whatever you want to call it. I disagree w/those who say he has issues upstairs. I think the way he influences games goes way beyond simple stats. I think he is a far superior to Allen.

Vers...

I see why people on here get frustrated by you. Not me though. It's almost as if you take offense to people who don't see it your way. And always want people to justify they're opinion. Why?

I don't see where I said anything about injuries for either player. Or said Garrett was lazy. Nor did I question anything upstairs about the kid. Your response implies that I did. And I warned you that you wouldn't like it.

My comparison was on Xs and Os. How I saw them play on the field. the skill set is very similar. And while you may not agree I see Garrett take plays off, a lot of kids do in college, probably from being used far more then they should be. But as a potential number one I'd like that guy to be squeaky clean, especially on the field. I have my concerns about the guy, had them as soon as I started watching tape on the guy back to last year. You don't have those questions. The guy could be great, don't deny that. Just see Allen as being safer. Don't want another failed draft pick regardless who is picked, seen to many. I think we can both agree on that.

Yeah those are my words. I never said they were you words. Expressing my opinion on your statements is not putting words in your mouth. I never said that YOU said your we're making mountains out of molehills.

Well this is where I get confused. YOU clearly say that (1) Garrett is the top edge rusher then you also say (2) you wouldn't have a problem if the Browns drafted him at pick #1.

All I did was repeat statements that YOU made!
I didn't it was possible for someone to be okay with a player being taken #1 overall AND at the same time think he wasn't worthy of the pick.

Okay. If this is how you feel NOW that's fine. BUT its not right to say I put words in your mouth when all I did was repeat what you had already said prior to this. This statement above does shift your opinion, which his fine, but it is not what you said before that I repeated.

The funny thing is that for me personally I would take Allen over Garrett. And I think both are clearly the top prospects in this draft. I don't see the need to bag on one prospect just because you like another prospect.

I've held the same opinion for a while and Mayock and Savage seem to share a similar thought. Both Garrett and Allen are worthy of the #1 overall pick. For me, in this draft I would go with Allen.

Not sure why anyone would be frustrated by what I said. I was trying to explain why Garrett and Clowney are not the same. I was not attacking your opinion and I wasn't upset at all that you don't agree w/me. I was clarifying what I thought.



Not sure I get this one? How is that a bad thing? Why wouldn't I want them to? Why be vague or unclear about things? I try and explain why I like or dislike particular players. I think that is better than just making crap up. Don't you?

I think that a couple of people have put out some misinformation about Garrett on this board. I am NOT saying you are one of them. I just wanna make sure that we are all clear in regards to his motor, maturity, and character.

We also need a pass rusher badly. History shows you can find run stuffers easier than pass rushers. You also gave to consider that Danny is a pretty good run stuffer.

I think Williams will get his stuffers stuffing. We need a monster on the edge to make Ogbah better, and our run stuffers sack totals better.

Garretts grade on Mayocks site is 7.65.

On NFL dot coms site it says this about a grade that high:

7.50-7.99 Future All-Pro


That is our Joe T on the D.

No doubt he has to prove it, as did Joe when he entered the league.

I do think it a bit easier to peg a O-linemans ability to block over a D-linemans ability to rush the passer and defend the run.


Some on here point to Clowney.....his numbers are trending way up. I'd take him on my team. The problem some of these guys face is even if they are real good, that isn't good enough in the minds of some fans who are expecting the next HOF'er.


Sorry, it doesn't always work that way.

mac, are you implying Gregg Williams is making the call on who to draft w/the first overall pick?

Well, you keep asking people to justify why they think Garrett is lazy, yet at the same time you do not justify your side of that he isn't. Just continue saying that you don't think he is. They have their opinion you have yours. I don't see how someones take on a guy after they read whatever they read about him is misinformation. And who's idea of his motor, maturity, and mental character is the right one we are suppose to be clear on? Yours? Or they'res? The bottom line is none of us can get a true take on another person is near impossible without actually meeting the guy in person and getting to know them. Which is why I keep my evaluations to what I see on the field in tape.

Sounds like you are getting frustrated.

Tell me, dean..........how many guys who get paid to do this have said that Garrett is lazy? Why would top evaluators and NFL execs say Garrett is the top player in the draft if he was lazy?

Here is what I think, dean. I think a poster fabricated the lazy part. Others picked up on it and ran w/it. I think that argument is completely bogus, and as long as guys like you question his motor, I will be here to defend his motor.

Count on it.

Like Mike Holmgren.

Okay, thanks.

I'm sorry, but where do you come up with this stuff?

We do have a guy with football experience in the front office. Andrew Berry.

Charachterizing Allen as 'just a run stopper' is offbase.

So what you're saying is I and others on here can't have our own opinion on the guy? We have to go by your opinion of him? And we should all follow what the experts and top execs. say? Which correct me if I'm wrong you have said in the past that you yourself do not. Defend the guy all you want, and you may be right on him, but just you saying he isn't lazy isn't providing any substance. And in the Mayock interview that I believe edromeo posted Mayock himself said along with other questions, that people(experts and top execs.) will have questions about him taking plays off, I.E. his motor and added that Allen would not have those same questions. Someone else posted about an interview that Savage did where he reiterated the same thoughts about Garrett, disappearing in games. See, there's substance.

You didn't say anything about a GM.

You said someone with football experience, being involved in the draft process. Holmgren was both of those. He was also a GM/HC in Seattle, and was terrible at it, but we felt that he'd be even better a step above that. (I admittedly was optimistic)

What you're basically saying is that you don't like our FO the way it is.

All bringing in a "football guy" would do, is cause arguments that would need a deciding vote, which you obviously don't want Haslem to have (no one does)

So if Sashi and Co. want this guy, and the football guy wants another. Who do we take?

It's OK to admit that you don't like how our FO is set up mac, but what you're asking for is not only not ganna happen, it would be the beginning of the end of our FO.

Which is probably why you want it so bad.

+1, there is also talk that most of his sacks are against inferior teams, he did disappear in bowl game, we can't screw this up....Allen would be a "safer" pick....AND I'm positive our FO will do the checking.....GO Browns!!!!