DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Front Office...continued

mac, you are forgetting a couple of key elemente. Experience GMs know there is no quick turnaround in Cleveland. Haslam shown little patients. Getting a second gig is minimal you don't risk your career in an unstable environment. For this very reason, I was against firing Farmer and Pettine. I thought it was zero chance Haslam could hire an experience HC and GM. Hiring Hue Jackson was pure luck in my opinion.

As for your Berry question:

Andrew Berry was employed for seven seasons with the Colts and four as the team’s pro scouting coordinator. He spent his first two years with the club as a scouting assistant before being elevated to pro scout in 2011. Berry was a four-year starter, a three-time First Team All-Ivy League selection and a two-time All-America choice at cornerback for Harvard University. He graduated Phi Beta Kappa and "cumm-laude" (added and "m" to remove censored tag) with a bachelor’s degree in economics and a master’s degree in computer science in four years.

To me, Berry easily qualifies for a GM job. I am surprised he did not get interviews this year. Most likely the reason he now is employed by Cleveland graveyard of NFL careers.

He's like 29 or 30 years old. Would you hire someone that age to be GM of your football team? I sure as heck wouldn't

I'm not bias against age. In my field of work, I've learned young people are very talented and smart. I also learned younger generation is not shy tackling something new. If I don't stay on top of new ideas, I'll will get passed over and be out of work.

Answering your question, yes, I would most definitely hire young talent. Biggest challenge Andrew will have is hiring. NFL is a good ol'boy network. NFL doesn't like unorthodox thinking until it succeeds.

I just see so many times when it seems to fail. I dunno if it has as much to do with their talent or experience, or getting those around you to be completely onboard (fair or not).


I have little faith in whoever this new coach of the Rams is. Didn't work with Josh McDaniels and the Broncos neither. And none of the other guys under 30 who've coached as well.



I believe the youngest GM is 37 right now. New GM for the Bears (two years?) They've gone 6-10 and 3-13........


And I'm 31, so I'm pretty young myself. But in a world of egos like pro-sports can be, I often feel that just by being that young, you're gonna have issues that present themselves that you wouldn't get being older

Egos...this, in my opinion, gives Browns an edge if they work together. This is why I think Paul DePodesta was hired. Nothing Browns are doing is certain and odds are against. I think what Browns are doing is legit and league is attempting to pressure Haslam into losing hope.

I am not saying Browns are on to a sure thing. I'm saying league taking notice and want to squash any hope preventing any chance. There is a lot of attention placed on Cleveland. You can say Cleveland is an easy target and being sought out. I find it suspicious the heavy negativity placed against the Browns.

Many analyst side with mac's opinion. I'm hoping Haslam has a pair proving mac wrong!

To me it isn't about proving Mac wrong. He is a nice guy, but his opinion doesn't matter all that much to me. What matters is we start climbing the ladder.

The Hell it aint!!!!

I think mac's opinion is true. I gave kudos for sticking to it. I have nothing against mac. I simply disagree with his cause.

By the way, I hate how this forum bash people who voice a different opinion. Nothing wrong disagreeing favor a good debate. There is a lot of intelligent people here chased away many good too. I've failed here too challenged myself to do better.

What?? Your post dosen't make any sense to me.

This article says 4 years......... 4 years as Pro Scouting Coordinator

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/01/cleveland_browns_andrew_berry.html

mac, colts website states the following...

Andrew Berry Colts Bio



Otherwise, I disagree with your latest post.

What part? I quoted to the part I responded.

I posted all the Berry info maybe 15 posts back.

The guy is qualified.

http://waitingfornextyear.com/2016/01/report-browns-hire-andrew-berry-as-vp-of-player-personnel/

Berry was a Pro Scout for the Colts for only 1 yr..June 2011 to May 2012..in the San Jose, Ca. area. Berry's experience

In June 2012, Be





jc....

From the link above..Andrew Berry's Harvard coach had this to say about Berry..





Andrew Berry was able to climb the ladder 9 years ahead of the schedule his college coach predicted. While Berry does not hold the title of GM, he is the man in charge of judging the talent and oversee the scouting department, while Sashi Brown holds the title of GM, (aka..Executive Vice President, Football Operations).

It would seem to me that Berry was been pushed into a position that he is not yet qualified to fill, with just 7 yrs experience at the NFL level with the Colts.

So seem to believe that 7 yrs experience means that Berry had 7 yrs as a Pro Scout..and based on that, Berry is qualified enough.

As I have attempted to point out, Berry never did have 7 yrs experience as a scout for the Colts...HE HAD ONE YEAR!

Here is a link to a story that talks about the Browns hiring Berry last year.. link


To the right of Berry's picture is a list of his NFL experience as well as his college experience.

From the article, Berry's experience is explained...




So Berry only spent 1 yr on road scouting, reviewing video, judging talent and writing reports on the players he scouted. It is still my opinion that 1 yr as a NFL scout, is not enough.

Berry returned to Indianapolis in June 2012, being pushed up to the Pro Scout Coordinator's position. It was his job to put together scouting reports and data on veteran NFL players and pass that information on to the coaches and GM, who used the information to help judge NFL players the Colts might be interested in.

Even with one year of experience as the Browns Vice President, Player Personnel, IMO, Berry could use some help..hopefully, experienced help

jmho, mac

So you're knocking him because the Colts promoted him too quickly?

And you don't think the Pro Scouting Coordinator doesn't do any scouting? You make it seems like he's just some paper pusher desk boy. He was the head of the Scouting Department.........

He wasn't some kid taking information from the scouts (who worked for him), made a nice little report out of it that was easy for the GM to read and passed it on. I just don't think it works that way. You make it out like the military and Berry was some kid who just graduated an academy and cleaned up the paperwork for the NCO's.....

I just don't think it works like that Mac.


He might have been scouting NFL players after his promotion, but he still was a part of hte overall discussion and he still was scouting.

Hmmm 2 years Scouting Assistant....
Then 1 year Scout....
Then 4 years Scouting Coordinator.....

2 promotions within 3 years and mac still doesn't think that the Guy can scout?

When you reach mac you really take out the extension ladder don't you!

On your planet what exactly do you think that scouting coordinators do mac?

Some don't seem to like quick promotions in duty. Some don't seem to get that seniority based promotion systems are a failed method. Some people don't need to spend 8 years doing the same job to show proficency.

mac is upset we hired someone that is really good at their job.

Color me surprised.

It's kinda early to say he's 'good at his job'. He probably is, but I'm not yet convinced he's good at the job he currently holds.

I don't disagree. Only time will tell. My only point is we have football people in place who are qualified.


Mike Holmgren was qualified, yet he wasn't very good at selecting talent, even with a ton of experience.


Same with Savage. We would be way better off today had we kept John Collins.

I agree, I don't think Andrew Berry was this guy..

Outside of losing for Luck on purpose their scouting made a LOT of bad choices while he was there. I am kind of scared his influence will make things worse instead of better.

After Luck, some names drafted....Coby Fleener,Anthony Castonzo, TY Hilton, Donte Moncrief, Jack Mewhort....all are starters or key situational guys.

I wouldn't call that bad...Some of those years they didn't have many picks...in 11 only 5 picks.

I think the issue with the Colts is that the drafted Luck then failed to build a line an protect him.

I blame that more on the GM than the scouting

No doubt, but someone on here seems to think so, or more likely, blames whoever he wants to blame so he can posy his crap over and over.

Sashi Brown spoke at the Combine.

https://www.facebook.com/clevelandbrowns/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

The only video I can that works is on the team's Facebook page.

Browns exec open to trading No. 1 in draft, won't 'panic' if free agent Terrelle Pryor bolts

Eric Edholm,Shutdown Corner 1 hour 1 minute ago .

INDIANAPOLIS — Cleveland Browns executive vice president Sashi Brown might start making people nervous with his words, but he spoke on Wednesday at the NFL scouting combine with calm in his voice, even with so much at stake this offseason.

The Browns own the top pick in the draft and have to nail it. They have some key free agents, including breakout star receiver Terrelle Pryor. They don’t yet have quarterback figured out. And the man in charge of helping turn around a 1-15 season said that he could envision a scenario where both are not part of the roster.

Brown said that Pryor was “a priority” but that the Browns “won’t panic if he’s not on our roster.” Additionally, Brown said the team would listen to offers for the No. 1 pick in the draft.

Only the Browns, right? Not so fast.

Brown’s answers were measured and not a likely indication that Pryor isn’t coming back or that assumed No. 1 draft pick Myles Garrett isn’t coming at all. This is not yet a time to panic if you’re a Browns fan. There was context to all of this.


Brown said he would “listen to any opportunities that are out there” for the top pick. That’s different than hanging a “For Sale” sign on it. Yes, Garrett has said some things that have been less than encouraging about his desire to come to Cleveland. But that doesn’t appear to be a concern yet. If someone knocks the Browns’ socks off with an offer? They’d have to consider it. That’s basically what Brown said.

On Pryor, he actually has said kind things about Cleveland, telling Cleveland.com: “I have no problem with, just because we were 1-15 or whatever this year, coming back,” he said. “I don’t mind starting fresh next year and continuing to grow, because I think it’s more exciting when you’re on the bottom. I’m always citing starting from the bottom and getting to the top, and I think it’s a greater feeling and it would be great to give Cleveland what they’re looking for.”

All Brown would seem to verify was that the Browns will not franchise tag Pryor, as he referred to the period during which legal tampering can begin with other teams and free agents two days prior to the start of free agency on March 9. There’s still a decent shot he could return. And if he doesn’t? The Browns shouldn’t panic. He was their best playmaker, but they were 1-15 with him; certainly they could achieve that again without him.

But there’s a very good shot Pryor — if he did re-sign — would be doing it prior to the Browns being able to land a quarterback. It appears that Jimmy Garoppolo will not be made available by the New England Patriots and other veteran options such as Tyrod Taylor, Kirk Cousins or A.J. McCarron don’t appear too realistic. Brown said he “expects” Robert Griffin III to be “back in April,” but you know how those things go. Don’t hold your breath on that return, and if you do it likely means the Browns struck out in other attempts to land different QBs.

So clearly we’re not saying there are not major concerns once more with the Browns. We’re just saying that Sashi Brown’s words on Wednesday were not as drastic or panic-worthy as they appeared to the naked eye.

– – – – – – –

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/browns...-183905530.html

Below, comments by Hue Jackson concerning Pryor...from the combine yesterday..

(UPDATED) Combine Notes:

March 2, 2017 | Updated 8:27 p. m
link

Jackson admitted he’s anxious receiver Terrelle Pryor will leave in free agency, so Jackson hopes he approves of Pryor’s decision.

“We want all of our guys back,” Jackson said. “But it’s free agency, so they get to make a choice and a decision, too. Hopefully, he’ll make the right one and stay here with us.”

Pryor had 77 catches for 1,007 yards and four touchdowns in 2016, leading the Browns in the three categories. He’s eligible to become an unrestricted free agent March 9 because the Browns didn’t use the $15.7 million franchise tag to guarantee his return for 2017.

Executive vice president of football operations Sashi Brown said Wednesday the team would meet with agents Drew and Jason Rosenhaus this week with the goal of reaching a long-term deal.

“Obviously Terrelle was a huge piece of what we did a year ago,” Jackson said. “I think he’s trending up. I think his best football is ahead of him. He’s very talented, very athletic, knows how to play. Hopefully we get this guy back and playing well for us.”

He is going to test the waters. The problem is if we offer 13 mil, that is the starting point.

We'll see what happens.

Like someone else alluded to in the other thread, why would he choose an incentive laden contract if someone else is offering a lot of guaranteed money? Whether it be us on someone else, he's going to get some guaranteed cash.

No matter what happens, I'm sure you'll be blasting the FO for either not getting the job done (following your advice and basing the contract on incentives), or offering too much guaranteed money.

Just pay the man. He is one of few "star quality" players we have.

The market will set his value.
Basically, it tells me that his agents are wanting a TON of money and we're balking at it.

1st offer has to be the right one.. if his agent thinks he can get more, as others have said, the initial offer will be a bargaining chip to use against other teams.

if the initial offer is the right one, Pryor will get it done.

Which is why the transition tag would have been the best route to go, IMO.

(1) We'd match whatever we thought was fair value
(2) No team would go too crazy on a deal
(3) We could still negotiate a long-term deal w/o the risk of losing him.

I think the Transition Tag figure was 13 million, and the FO didn't wanna pay that

j/c

At every turn (quote) all interviewed Browns representation has made it very clear that they want Pryor here. They are not attempting to disparage the guy or do anything to drive down the price.

I expect the FO to offer him a fair deal. Pryor has hinted that he wants to be here. If we lose him to another team, it will likely be because that team was willing to way overpay the guy.

That would only make sense if you thought it would be good for him to get paid like he is Top 10 in the NFL at that position.

mac, I will bash the FO when warranted, but Pryor is still here. He hasn't left yet. It's way too early to bash the FO for not keeping him.

Additionally, they did work out a deal w/Collins, who is one of their "better players," and it's also been stated that they will go after some FAs this year.

I think you are being unfair towards the FO. It's almost like a crusade for you.

I am not a blind homer and try to evaluate individual move they make. I will criticize them when I think they deserve it, but please, let's be fair.