One of the chief complaints by Browns fans is the O-line generally, and C and RT specifically. What we learned last year is that Pasztor is a better G than T, and while he was improved, I don't think we should depend on him as starting RT going forward. In the last game of the season, they started Erving at RT and I thought he looked pretty good until he was injured in the 3rd(?) quarter. He was replaced by Coleman who also looked OK.
My question for the more X/O savvy posters; is it reasonable that Erving, who is big and athletic, and played T for most of his college career, could be the answer at RT? My impression is that it is a more natural position for him, and while he was clearly a failure at C, could he be a quality tackle?
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I expect the Browns to let Shon Colman and Cam Erving to compete for the RT job.
The question mark will be how the Browns address their center needs. Many have called for the Browns to draft a center but I would not be surprised if the front office to allow Anthony Fabiano and Austin Reiter compete for the center position.
I think Coleman will get the opportunity to win the RT position for sure!
Erving is from another Regime...we will give him opportunities but when his contract is up I don't see us re-signing him.
If he cannot become a good Center I think he is done.
Pasztor...I think he is just SERVICEABLE a good 6th OL him starting to me means our OL is not yet built.
Centers...you can get mid-to late rounds. Thought it was stupid of us to utilize a first round pick on a center.
It will not surpise me to see us pick Lamp and convert him to Center. He was on the South and in practice almost played exclusively at Center for HUE's O...wonder what they were looking for
jmho
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--I do not think the OL is as bad as many claim. Our QBs held the ball for a long time and wandered out of established pockets. The Browns were also behind in many games and were forced to pass a lot. Those factors lead to more sacks.
--I do think we need upgrades at C and RT. Not sure who can fill those roles...
--I like Pazstor. I think he can be your 5th or 6th o-lineman.
--I do not like Erving. I do not think he played well either at center or in his one stint at RT. He failed at guard as a rookie. He seems like a good guy, but he makes so many mental errors and he plays too upright.
--I am not sure how the Browns should try and improve the OL, but it is my hope they don't do it by using a pick in rounds 1 or 2 on an offensive lineman this year.
--I do not like Erving. I do not think he played well either at center or in his one stint at RT. He failed at guard as a rookie. He seems like a good guy, but he makes so many mental errors and he plays too upright.
IMO he looked a little better at RT than C... having said that, I agree with you 100% about the mental errors. So often he just simply looked overwhelmed. "Speed of the game" isn't something we usually talk about with respect to the O-Line, but I really feel that this is an issue for Erving.
We'll have to see. It's coming up on his 3rd season and he has one of the best LT's in the game to learn from. He couldn't be set up for success any more than he currently is.
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I'm not a fan of Erving's play...but I will say this.
His rookie year "they" tried to make him a G and had him practice all over the place. He was abysmal.
His second year they played him at C because...well...I don't know why. The guy played ...what...six games at C his last year in college? He was bad for the most part. I thought he at least looked like a real NFL RT in the first half of the last game last year...that after practicing and playing at C all year...meaning one week of practice at RT.
I agree with those who think we will let Coleman and Erving battle it out for RT. We MUST re-sign Pasztor. I think he starts at RG until Greco returns - maybe longer - and if Coleman and Erving crap out, he's back to RT.
Lastly, I hope they told Erving to do whatever needs done for RTs to develop and hone their craft. Tell him he won't take a SINGLE snap at G or C. Tell him he's either a T or he's off this team. THEN let's see what he's got. No more jacking him up and down the line. Focus and develop at RT only and show us what you've learned when TC starts.
Joe's not getting any younger ... he's still above average ... he will be average sooner rather than later ...
Hopefully when we draft MG it re-invigorates him ...
Until proven otherwise we need help at C and RT .... problem is we need help at pretty much every position on D and have GAPING HOLES at two of the three biggest positions in the game ...
We have lots of ammo this off season ... i hope we use at least one draft pick in the first two rounds on OL ... one of the 2nd rounders please ...
If we can get a legite starter or some good depth in FA I'd be all for that also ... lots of ammo ... lots of options ... its almost like these guys can't f this up ...
If we keep Cam RT is where his future is. The coaches should tell him that and let him practice for that position. He also needs to put it in his mind that his future is there so he now doesn't have to worry about being moved up and down the line.
No, I don't want to see a O-line pick in the first two rounds either....maybe even first 3.
They haven't been announced yet, but I think we will get three 4th round comp picks. We can find a good center and or guard in there. I also think that Coleman will be pretty good as a RT.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I agree with you Willie, Erving has played out of position his entire NFL career. I think he can be effective at RT if given the snaps.
I for one, would love to see us use free agency to fix the OL. There are quite a few good to decent guards in their mid 20's who could help. We have the money and should address the problem with FA, then we can concentrate on the D with the draft which is purported to be very deep this year on that side of the ball.
Not sure where I stand on the QB's this year...a lot of risk taking one high IMO, and the bidding war for JimmyG is likely to get out of hand.
Would the Browns be looking to draft a G like Lamp or Freeney that would be versatile enough to play C if they go into FA & pick up a starting G. ( Greco hurt & on his last contract yr. / Bitonio having trouble staying on the field. ) I believe this would give the team some excellent options against injury & if either Fabiano or Rieter pan out at C. Either way you have a quality interior lineman on your roster with versatility to compete for a starting role.
At RT, I see Coleman as their first choice, with Erving in the mix. There might be an outside chance they also look for a RT in FA & use Coleman as the swing T.
Either way, the OL will improve in talent & depth.
I don't think drafting a part-time C is the answer. If we draft a C we need to draft one that has been a 3-4 year starter. It is hard enough to play C in the NFL let alone a part timer. IMO
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I expect the Browns to let Shon Colman and Cam Erving to compete for the RT job.
The question mark will be how the Browns address their center needs. Many have called for the Browns to draft a center but I would not be surprised if the front office to allow Anthony Fabiano and Austin Reiter compete for the center position.
I don't think drafting a part-time C is the answer. If we draft a C we need to draft one that has been a 3-4 year starter. It is hard enough to play C in the NFL let alone a part timer. IMO
It probably isn't. However Cody Whitehair had a superb year with the Bears at center, after playing guard his entire life. So it certainly begs the question about 3rd day guard prospects who could possibly move to center and be the best center in the class. This year is an exceptionally weak year at center, so probably a year to test the hypothesis.
Unfortunately, I don't really see one of those guys in this class, besides the top 3 guard prospects. I think our best bet in the draft I'd Pat Eflien. I'm not sure he's strong enough though. Preferably we'd fix the center position through free agency or Greco.
I see your point. I still feel that if we draft a quality interior OL, we will not only get immediate , but long term, optional benefits. A premium talent will only improve the overall quality of our unit in so many ways. If, these two premium G can play C, then we have high end talent covering three positions, possibly short & definitely long term.
I see what your saying, but possibility of bridging with top talent, and the skill to start at G when we'll need it is appealing to me. I'll also love the fact that we have an instant starter in three interior OL positions if needed.
Greco is on his way out. Botonio is great, but his durability is slowly becoming a question. Our second team OL prospects have been god awful & serious depth has always been a problem.
I'm not suggesting this as short term patch, but an multi-option,long term building block to a solid product.
My hope is that we move away from the reactive approach to drafting & take a more proactive, versatile direction with talent that can be solid in more than one position.
I kind of side with Peen in that I don't want to draft an Olineman in the first two rounds unless he is clearly the best player available. I think at RT we need to let Coleman, who missed most of last year, and Erving fight it out to see if either can be the answer and at OC I would rather see if we can sign a guy like Tretter in free agency.
Would the Browns be looking to draft a G like Lamp or Freeney that would be versatile enough to play C if they go into FA & pick up a starting G. ( Greco hurt & on his last contract yr. / Bitonio having trouble staying on the field. ) I believe this would give the team some excellent options against injury & if either Fabiano or Rieter pan out at C. Either way you have a quality interior lineman on your roster with versatility to compete for a starting role.
At RT, I see Coleman as their first choice, with Erving in the mix. There might be an outside chance they also look for a RT in FA & use Coleman as the swing T.
Either way, the OL will improve in talent & depth.
I agree. I think we both draft a player(or two, mid draft) and look to sign a FA or two. What we do in the draft will be dictated by what we do in the FA market.
Last year was the strip down. This year is the start of reconstruction. FA will be a part of that. It has to be. I don't think the goal is to have a team full of 23 year olds.
Have some of them, a good deal of players 25--30, and several above 30. A good balance of youth and experience.
Balance it by positions. You don't want 34 year old running backs, but can have some of that at O-line, as an example.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I think, unless we sign a clear starter in free agency, we are going to have a whole mess of guys trying to start at right tackle. I believe the team wants Shon Coleman to be the starter, I believe Drango can play right tackle, and I believe we will draft another offensive linemen. I will not be shocked if Erving gets the Justin Gilbert treatment going into the regular season.
*Change of subject*
Geoff Schwartz, brother of Mitchell Schwartz, has started a video series on YouTube explaining some of the basics of offensive line play:
Not sure if there is a good one or the cost of it, but I think it would be great if we address RT in FA. Just wishful thinking and no proof that there is a good one available.
LT- very good to elite...however getting older LG- good-very good...however oft injured C- poor...needs alot of attention RG- good...however coming off injury perhaps on PUP RT- solid-good...FA (needs retained, or a better replacement via FA)
Cam Erving reminds me of Nat Dorsey...tall, horrible feet, too weak at the core, and often on the turf...my hope is he can mature into a good RT...or heck even a swing tackle as we need one of those as well...
FA I've always enjoyed OT Ricky Wagner...would be nice to steal him away from the Ravens...he will cost a lot though...More than likely we will retain Patzor as he'll be cheaper...Hes not very good...however solid-good...compared we have more of a glaring weakness inside at center and possibly guard.
I hope the Browns steer away from OT Roderick Johnson in the draft...he has bust written on him...reminds me of Bruce Campbell and Cameron Erving combined...
This is one of the worst years of OT that I can remember...I don't have a first round grade on anyone except a late first grade on Ramcyzk...but a hip injury is scary nonetheless..
My hope is we find some parts in FA or the middle of the draft...Round 3 I hope we can find a center, perhaps look for a back-up tackle in round 4...I wouldn't mind (3) mid to late round picks to help address issues
Would the Browns be looking to draft a G like Lamp or Freeney that would be versatile enough to play C if they go into FA & pick up a starting G. ( Greco hurt & on his last contract yr. / Bitonio having trouble staying on the field. ) I believe this would give the team some excellent options against injury & if either Fabiano or Rieter pan out at C. Either way you have a quality interior lineman on your roster with versatility to compete for a starting role.
At RT, I see Coleman as their first choice, with Erving in the mix. There might be an outside chance they also look for a RT in FA & use Coleman as the swing T.
Either way, the OL will improve in talent & depth.
I would keep an eye on what the NE Patriots, do with RT Sebastian Vollmer, with that said I thought that Coleman showed some promise in limited duty.
Center is a mess and until we figure that postion out we will only be as strong as our weakest link. The position prospects in this yeays Draft are poor. I do like Dan Feeney in the 2nd round, but much depends on what we do with the QB position, because if we are not able to swoon NE for JG, then our options for other positions are more limited.
Again if we know that we do not have to draft a QB early, then that leaves everthing else on the table.
It's an important position. One that will not surface with but a warm body.
Ramcyzk is the only OL I can first round grade on. I think that he is a top 15 talent and being that he is the only OT that is worthy of a first round selection. I could see him possibly sneak into the top 10.
Quite a few people have said that Coleman has either looked good or showed promise when he was out there. I was trying to concentrate on both him and Erving that game. I saw a couple of plays where Coleman displayed strength, but I don't think he played enough snaps to really make an evaluation.
Does anyone know how many snaps he actually played in that game? I'm pretty sure he came in during the 3rd quarter and he got hurt and had to leave the game. I just don't think he played enough to really say much of anything. And if someone knows how to find how many snaps he actually played, I would surely appreciate it.
I hope he works out, but I don't the Browns can count on him or Erving being the answer. I think they are probably going to have to address that position in the off-season.
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I agree with you Willie, Erving has played out of position his entire NFL career. I think he can be effective at RT if given the snaps.
Last year, the narrative on here was that he was a center and would perform much better at that position.
I am not sure if such a dud player has had more excuses made for him than Erving.
I think Manziel holds that record...anyway...he's a first round pick (unfortunately) and it'd be great if he turned into a real NFL T. The team has invested a lot into that guy and he is being given a very long rope.
To be fair to him though, he's now played 1/2 of an NFL game at his "natural' position. I'd like to see more of him at that position before casting him off.
I think the OL has been addressed more so than many are seeing. Disclaimer: The word 'addressed' there is relative.
They have recently signed that 3rd Rd RT prospect. He was just injured/not-ready his first year. They have the young Journeyman-type starter who is serviceable-at-worst at RT and slightly above average as a G. They also have a reclamation project, 1st Rounder who will compete at RT this year. How many more assets will/can/should-they they throw at that spot?
They have what I consider that mid-Rd type Center in Reiter and the developmental guy in Fabiano with a tested vet G who can play well there if need be. Both the young guys played well albeit in very limited action. How many more assets will/can/should-they they throw at that spot?
If this becomes a viable starting unit out of TC I think we'd be in good shape:
Thomas-Bitonio-Reiter-Pasztor-Coleman
With these guys as backups:
Drango, Erving, Fabiano, Greco, ?
There isn't likely an immediate upgrade in this draft to those starting 5 unless we burn a very early pick. If we want to upgrade that starting five before the season starts, we'll need to do so in FA. (Which I prefer over trying to upgrade in this draft.)
It looks like a pretty good O-line if we stay healthy. Maybe a good signing in FA to top it off and give us a little more depth.
We definatly need a RT and Center in FA or the Draft ... JMHO
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It looks like a pretty good O-line if we stay healthy. Maybe a good signing in FA to top it off and give us a little more depth.
We definatly need a RT and Center in FA or the Draft ... JMHO
I agree some folks are automatically elevating Reiter to be our starting Center.
Based on a partial game. One in which he didn't fall on his face or embarrass himself, but hardly well enough from precluding us from seeking to find an up grade.
It looks like a pretty good O-line if we stay healthy. Maybe a good signing in FA to top it off and give us a little more depth.
We definatly need a RT and Center in FA or the Draft ... JMHO
I agree some folks are automatically elevating Reiter to be our starting Center.
Based on a partial game. One in which he didn't fall on his face or embarrass himself, but hardly well enough from precluding us from seeking to find an up grade.
Some folks think we will find a starting C in Rd 4 who hasn't played yet in the NFL.
They knew who Reiter was before they stole him from WAS...they had him for a few weeks before he played. Then he played well and received praise from Joe Thomas. I bet they think they know what they have in him. They know more about him than any soon to be draftee.
Fabiano was on and off the roster/PS throughout the year and then back on the roster for several weeks before starting the last game. The coaches thought enough of him to give him his first start against the Steelers. I bet they have a good idea what they have in him. They know more about him than any soon to be draftee.
Greco filled-in well at C.
How many C's do we need? Do you take a C early in Rd 4 or another DB/S/TE/RB? I just think that that mid-Rd C that some people want to draft is already here in Reiter and Fabiano.
I don't think a 3rd-4th Rd center beats out those three guys - a rook RT would have to be picked by Rd 3 or so it would seem to beat out the guys we have there. If we upgrade the position(s), I think it would have to be through FA.
It looks like a pretty good O-line if we stay healthy. Maybe a good signing in FA to top it off and give us a little more depth.
We definatly need a RT and Center in FA or the Draft ... JMHO
I agree some folks are automatically elevating Reiter to be our starting Center.
Based on a partial game. One in which he didn't fall on his face or embarrass himself, but hardly well enough from precluding us from seeking to find an up grade.
Some folks think we will find a starting C in Rd 4 who hasn't played yet in the NFL.
They knew who Reiter was before they stole him from WAS...they had him for a few weeks before he played. Then he played well and received praise from Joe Thomas. I bet they think they know what they have in him. They know more about him than any soon to be draftee.
Fabiano was on and off the roster/PS throughout the year and then back on the roster for several weeks before starting the last game. The coaches thought enough of him to give him his first start against the Steelers. I bet they have a good idea what they have in him. They know more about him than any soon to be draftee.
Greco filled-in well at C.
How many C's do we need? Do you take a C early in Rd 4 or another DB/S/TE/RB? I just think that that mid-Rd C that some people want to draft is already here in Reiter and Fabiano.
I don't think a 3rd-4th Rd center beats out those three guys - a rook RT would have to be picked by Rd 3 or so it would seem to beat out the guys we have there. If we upgrade the position(s), I think it would have to be through FA.
We need one good Center. I don't much care how the problem is solved, but that it will be solved for next season.
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