DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Garoppolo Part Five

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18725...7-nfl-offseason

The above article is a great breakdown of Garoppolo by Matt Bowen (former NFL player).

Earlier in the year Bowen wrote about how the Patriots' offense did not change with Garoppolo at QB:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17532...nfl-2016-week-1

One more thing, Adam Schefter had Garoppolo on his podcast (I haven't listened to it so I do not know where the Garoppolo portion starts):

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=18731725

That was a great article. Thanks for posting it.

Bowen does a great job of articulating the strengths that some of us love about Jimmy's game and why we are so high on him.

Here is what the Browns need to make a Jimmy Garoppolo trade happen


The only thing more aggravating than the Tony Romo rumors floating around the NFL this offseason are the Jimmy Garoppolo trade rumors. One minute he’s a sure bet to be traded, the next minute the Patriots might end up keeping him and all of a sudden there’s chatter he could fetch the top overall pick. Wild how that works!

The clear-cut leader in the Garoppolo sweepstakes is the team with the top-overall pick, the one and only Cleveland Browns, a quarterback-desperate team with a pile of picks available for negotiations.

Let’s look at what needs to happen in order for the Browns to acquire Garoppolo.

According to Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com, the Patriots are going to require a first-round pick in exchange for Garoppolo. This jibes with what has been the general chatter for a while now. The Patriots want a first-rounder for their former second-round pick (with three years of investment in terms of training). The Browns have two of them, possessing the No. 1 overall pick and the No. 12 overall pick.

Cleveland also holds the No. 34 overall pick but apparently that’s not enough to make it work. (It should be, but that’s another argument.)

Cabot actually believes it might take MORE to get Garoppolo.

I believe it will take the No. 12 pick to acquire him, and possibly more. The trading window officially opens March 9, but unofficial talks will take place before then. If Belichick doesn’t receive a first-round offer right away, he can hang onto Garoppolo until draft day and try to drive up the price.

Draft day gets tricky, though. Let’s assume there are five teams who would realistically be willing to trade for Jimmy G: the Browns, the 49ers, the Bears, the Jets and the Bills.
Let’s rule out Belichick trading Garoppolo in the divsion to the Jets or the Bills. Let’s also assume if he’s willing to send Garoppolo to either Buffalo or New York, both teams he plays twice a year, then it means he believes Garoppolo is going to flame out.

Belichick isn’t handing the Jets or Bills a franchise quarterback regardless of the price.

So that leaves three teams. And this is where the leverage gets really tricky. Both the Bears and 49ers are going to be looking for long-term solutions at quarterback and both are expected to release their respective veteran starters (Jay Cutler and Colin Kaepernick).

But both teams are potential fits for other veterans. Tony Romo went to the same college (Eastern Illinois) as Bears GM Ryan Pace (which is also the same college Garoppolo went to!) and could be a fit in Chicago, although it’s a rebuilding team and he might not want to wait. Kyle Shanahan has previously coached Kirk Cousins and Cutler. Neither is guaranteed to be available come free agency, but both could be a fit for the 49ers if they want to go in a different direction than the top of the draft.

In other words, free agency is going to drastically dictate what happens with a Garoppolo trade. If the 49ers and Bears sign a veteran who can start (include Mike Glennon on that list, as well) then all of a sudden Belichick’s leverage with Cleveland could disappear.

This could also go in the total opposite direction. Cabot reports that Shanahan coveted Garoppolo coming out of Eastern Illinois when coaching the Browns in 2014, but Cleveland took Johnny Manziel. Whoops.

Kyle Shanahan, the new 49ers head coach, loved Garoppolo coming out of Eastern Illinois in 2014 when he was with Cleveland, but the Browns opted for Johnny Manziel instead.

Shanahan has the No. 2 and No. 34 overall picks and the second-most cap space in the NFL at almost $79 million. Quarterbacks love to play for Shanahan because of his QB-friendly scheme.

If San Francisco and Chicago don’t have an immediate or long-term answer at quarterback by the time the draft comes around, Belichick could be swimming in leverage with those teams. Cleveland might want to offer the No. 12 pick and he might be able to laugh about it, because he can threaten the Browns with San Francisco or Chicago trading their top pick.

This is all hypothetical, of course. The problem with giving up a top-five pick for Garoppolo is his contract. Both rookies and Garoppolo are unknown by default, but unlike a rookie, Garoppolo isn’t going to be on a cost-controlled contract for four years (plus a fifth-year option).

He’s going to play one season and then whoever acquires him will immediately be required to make a decision on an expensive, long-term contract. If he’s the guy, great. If he puts you in a position like the Redskins are in with Kirk Cousins, well, then you need to spend $45 million over the next two years to decide if he’s the right answer.
To sum up, if the Browns want to acquire Jimmy Garoppolo for a reasonable price and have him be the savior of Cleveland football, they need a bunch of other quarterback-needy teams go out in free agency and sign players, then have the Patriots take less than they normally would in a trade and then have Garoppolo agree to a long-term contract in Cleveland.

And he also has to be good at football. It’s all pretty simple, really.

Link

I've mentioned this before, and the more I think about it, the more sense it makes to me.

You're Bill Belichick. You know you are going to be, once again, drafting at the tail end of every round. You see a player in the draft you really want in Myles Garrett but you know you have no chance of drafting him.

You have Brady, arguably the best QB in history (certainly one of the best.) But he is getting old. Three years ago, you did a smart thing in drafting a QB with all the right tools but needed time to learn how to be an NFL QB. Now he's ready, but Brady is still going strong. You know he can't last that much longer, but he seems to be actually getting better with age.

Garoppolo has 1 year left on his rookie contract, and you have a decision to make; A) ride out the last year of his contract to see if age catches up to Brady, or B) get what you can for Garoppolo in a trade now and bet that Brady still has a few more years so you can prep your next replacement. Option A is the smarter move.

But you really want Garrett, and the team with the golden ticket is the Browns, who are desperate for a QB. So you float a rumor that Garoppolo is available for the right trade, and you sit back and watch the feeding frenzy, knowing that if it all goes right, Cleveland will have to offer the golden ticket to get him. If it doesn't result in a shot at Garrett, then no trade and keep Garoppolo.
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I would really like Garoppolo, but not if it means giving up the #1 pick. If we can get both Garrett and Garoppolo, I'll be dancing in the street. But the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Garrett is the whole reason Garoppolo is even in play.

And iirc, one of BB's buddies started the whole thing, didn't he?

Our old friend Mike Lombardi.

Yep.

Only time will tell. They are obviously out to see if a trade is out there that is worth it. You can't blame them for that. There would be no momentum to the trade though if Jimmy didn't showcase some great skillsets though.

Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, a dumb article like that one gets more attention than a great article like the one by Bowen.

The guy cites Mary Kay as a source, but who is Mary Kay's source? How do any of them know what it will take to get Jimmy G in a trade?

Then, like tab pointed out, this bozo talks about the 34th pick.

I think the number 33 pick and a conditional pick next year depending on how well Jimmy/The Browns do is a fair deal.

All this talk about #12, or the Bears and 49ers giving up a Top 5 pick is just that, talk.

It's only been a couple weeks and it's already been talked to death, brought back to life, circled around twice, and is almost dead again.

As opposed to your ROCK SOLID FACTS ...

I'm sorry.

I figured that by starting a post with I THINK.

You would of been able to infer that it was my opinion.

Just like pretty much everything else is someone's opinion.

j/c:

MIKE FREEMAN'S 10-POINT STANCE: PATRIOTS' BIG TRADE BAIT, NFL'S ATHLETIC FREAKS

1. Jimmy Garoppolo and the Dak Prescott Phenomenon

Remember one thing about the combine and NFL draft: Around this time, almost everyone in football lies.

All the time. Every second. Lie upon lie upon lie. Teams do it as a sort of misinformation campaign, hoping some sucker club falls for a lie. So as you read information about the combine and draft, remember this fact.

Yet there are some truth-tellers who never lie (at least I don't think they do). What those executives are telling me—three of them, two from the NFC—is they believe some team is going to make the New England Patriots an offer for Jimmy Garoppolo they cannot refuse.

I want to be clear about what I'm being told: They believe several teams are preparing to make blockbuster offers for Garoppolo. I'm not saying it will happen. I'm saying this is the belief of some around football. They think a draft shakeup is coming and that it will involve Garoppolo.

The increasingly popular view among some in the league is that Garoppolo can transform a franchise almost overnight and is worth a first-round pick.

There's a desperation that's sweeping the league when it comes to finding a quarterback, greater than I've seen in a long time. One front-office executive called it the Dak Prescott Phenomenon.

Prescott was a big reason the Cowboys transformed their franchise, and some people in football think Garoppolo can do the same. This is a massive assumption, but, again, teams may think it's worth the risk and the high price it would take.

There's evidence Garoppolo could be effective. He completed 71.2 percent of his passes in two games against Arizona and Miami. He threw for 496 yards and four scores combined.

One kink in all of this is the Patriots might use the franchise tag on Garoppolo. They have until March 1 to do it, but there's an obvious problem: The number might be close to $24 million. Could the team justify paying a backup that much cash?

The Patriots have become the best franchise in football, and one reason is the way they have accumulated draft picks and then drafted smartly. They have been far from perfect, but pretty good. Trading Garoppolo would fit into what the Patriots have done under Bill Belichick.

Yes, everyone lies.

But I do think the Garoppolo talk is heating up, and I'm not sure it's going away soon.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/26938...athletic-freaks

The Brown's could have gotten both for our future. But we just had to get that other guy, what's his name again?

I said stay at 2 and take Zeke but I was ridiculed

pastor, our "Harvard boys" would have been crucified on here if they had taken zeke. knives and pitchforks would have come out in force.

Lombardi said on the "Bill Simmons Podcast" that he doesn't think the Patriots will trade Garoppolo:

https://soundcloud.com/ringernflshow/ep-77-the-qb-ap-carousel-with-bill-simmons-and-mike-lombardi

I don't know if Lombardi was asked to say that or not, but he is not the only prominent person with that opinion.

Paraphrase of what Lombardi said, "I am not a Belichick shill."

"One kink in all of this is the Patriots might use the franchise tag on Garoppolo. They have until March 1 to do it, but there's an obvious problem: The number might be close to $24 million. Could the team justify paying a backup that much cash?"

Why would the Patriots use a franchise tag this year.. JG is not a FA until next year?

They start talking about Garoppolo at approximately 21.20 in that link. At about 26.15 they get to talking specifically Browns picks and Lombardi states (paraphrased) with the #1 we're talking about Garrett, with the #12 we don't know who's available. I point this out in reference to my suspicion that all this trade talk starts with Belichick's desire for Garrett.

Should the Browns trade for Jimmy Garoppolo? We debate it from all sides

Frank Schwab

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/should-the-...-190716002.html

It seems like a good bet Jimmy Garoppolo will be traded somewhere this offseason.

The New England Patriots are working on an extension with Tom Brady, and he looks like he might make good on his promise to play into his mid-40s (he turns 40 before next season). Garoppolo’s contract runs out after next season. The Patriots can’t really pay $20 million or so to franchise tag Brady’s backup, they can’t give Garoppolo a starting-quarterback-level contract with Brady still in place, and one would have to imagine Garoppolo would want to go somewhere else and start. Either the Patriots trade him now, or they’ll likely lose him for nothing a little more than a year from now.

The Cleveland Browns are emerging as the most logical trade partner. They need a quarterback and that 12th overall pick looks just about right for a trade.

But is it wise? Our Shutdown Corner writers Shalise Manza Young, Eric Edholm and Frank Schwab did a little role playing, speaking from the perspective of Garoppolo, and both sides the Browns front office will have to consider before making the trade:

Jimmy Garoppolo (played by Shalise Manza Young): There was such a big deal made when the New England Patriots drafted me in the second round of the draft in 2014. Bill Belichick had never drafted a quarterback so high in his 15 years with New England – hell, I was taken 137 spots before Tom Brady – and I was immediately seen as Brady’s eventual successor.

Even Coach Belichick stoked that fire: on my draft night, he told reporters, “We all know what Tom’s age and contract situation is.” Brady was 36 years old at the time and turned 37 during our first training camp together. All he’s done since then is bring us to three AFC Championship games and two Super Bowl wins. Not exactly a sign that Father Time is knocking at his door.

Look, it’s been great learning from Tommy and Josh McDaniels and Coach Belichick these last three years. But I’m already 25, Tommy’s contract is for two more years, and there was a report this week that the Patriots and Tommy have interest in extending him even longer! How long am I supposed to wait?!?

Aaron Rodgers sat behind Brett Favre for three years, then became the Packers’ starter at 25. I’m already that old now. The Patriots drafted Jacoby Brissett last year and he’s off to a good start, so he could be Brady’s successor in a few years. Or maybe Tommy will play until he’s like 48 and his successor is still in high school. Who knows.

The beginning of this season wasn’t exactly a dream scenario for us, with Tommy getting the shaft from Roger Goodell, but I got a chance to start. It was supposed to be a four-game stint, but it didn’t quite work out that way: I was picking apart the Miami Dolphins in Week 2 when Kiko Alonso drove me to the turf and I wasn’t able to start the last two games of Tommy’s suspension.

I was good in my starts. Heck, I’ll even say darn good. I brought us back in Week 1, on the road against the Arizona Cardinals, and then had us up big on Miami before I got hurt. Not to brag but in those two games, I completed 42-of-59 passes (that’s over 71 percent) with four touchdowns and no picks.

Sure, there’s not a lot of game action to judge me on. But look at what I said: I’ve spent three years watching every move Tommy Freaking Brady has made. I’ve been put through the ringer in Coach Belichick’s practices. I’ve learned one of the most complex offenses in the NFL.

Who wouldn’t want me over Mitch Trubisky? (No offense, Mitch.)

I can’t thank the Patriots enough for drafting me in 2014, but I’ve watched other teams play, and there are some bad quarterbacks out there. Cleveland isn’t exactly my dream city, but it’s pretty close to home, so that’s not so bad. I hear Hue Jackson is great with quarterbacks, and if we can get the Browns to the playoffs, we would be kings. And if not Hue and Cleveland, I see the Chicago Bears and San Francisco 49ers might also be looking for a new quarterback.

I can win in this league; I know I can. Give the Patriots a first-round pick instead of wasting it on some project QB who might never work out, and let’s get to work.

Oh, and you might have to pay me a little bit. But success isn’t cheap, right?

The aggressive Browns GM (played by Eric Edholm): Look, we’ve done what you’ve said is smart. We’ve squirreled away a lot of draft picks, most of them up high. That’s good, right? Our problem is using them on college players. Our success rate has been sub-optimal, you see.

That’s why we have to send the 12th pick — and, if we must, a little sweetener down the road — to the Patriots for Jimmy Garoppolo. And we’re more than happy to do it. A few reasons why …

Our new regime, one roundly mocked by the rest of the league, turned in a mixed bag of a 14-man draft class a year ago. We also lost all but one game and remain in our perpetual hamster wheel of a quarterback search.

The Browns have used the first pick (Tim Couch) on a QB. Lord knows we’ve used the 22nd pick on one (Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden and Johnny Manziel). We’ve tried to be clever and use third-round picks (Colt McCoy and Cody Kessler) with third-round results or worse.

Heck, we’ve tried to land local guys (Quinn and Charlie Frye), and there’s one in this draft with strong ties to Ohio (Mitch Trubisky). We passed on one local prospect (Ben Roethlisberger) and well, you know how that worked out.

We’ve signed free agents at the position, too, and none of them have panned out. Heck, we own three of the first 33 spots in the draft, and we couldn’t even get Deshaun Watson to come to Mobile for the Senior Bowl. All he needed to do was try on a uniform, eat a few oysters with our coaches and we probably would have drafted the kid.

But we’re taking a new course now. Sure, it will be more expensive, but as it’s noted in every story about us, we lead the NFL in salary-cap space and draft-pick ammo. Lock and load, baby.

That’s why we’re willing to trade for Garoppolo, even though he has 101 fewer NFL passes than Kessler. Heck, even RG3 threw more passes in the final three weeks of last season than Jimmy has in three years, but we’re willing to roll the dice here. We think you can understand we’ve seen enough of those two, thankful as we are for their service, to know it’s not working out.

We now have a chance that we’ve never had before: the rare opportunity to trade for a 25-year-old potential star QB. Even if he’s 2007 Matt Schaub, we’d be fine with that, believe us. The Houston Texans sent two second-round picks and slid down from 8 to 10 in the first round that year for Schaub — he of the two NFL starts prior, just like Jimmy — and it worked out well. Our analytics tell us Schaub had three 4,000-yard seasons in a four-year span. The last time we had a quarterback throw for 4,000 yards three times in a four-season stretch was … well, never. We’ve had one 4,000-yard passing season, period. That was Brian Sipe. In 1980.

We own five of the first 65 picks in the draft, including No. 1 overall. Sorry, Pats. That one is earmarked for Myles Garrett. Short of chloroforming us at the combine, we’re not sending you that pick. But 12? We’re game. Sure, the 12th pick can be pretty fertile draft turf. You can land an Odell Beckham, a Marshawn Lynch or a Fletcher Cox. Or you can miss with Christian Ponder, D.J. Hayden or Knowshon Moreno. Our history suggests the latter is more likely.

And one more thing is clear: finding a QB in that range is nearly impossible. Over the past 20 drafts, the quarterbacks taken between the 12th and 17th picks have been Ponder, EJ Manuel, Josh Freeman and Cade McNown. Even by Browns standards that list tastes like a Cuyahoga River cocktail.

Need us to throw in a 2018 pick? Well, we’ve got extras — all of our picks, plus extra second- and fourth-rounders, thanks to the Eagles and Panthers. Look, we need a quarterback. If not, we all get fired maybe. So yeah, we can talk 2018 too.

The kid is good. He’s not just some Bill Belichick creation, or aberration. We watched him play well against the Cardinals and Dolphins before getting hurt.

We love making deals with the Patriots. We got something for Barkevious Mingo, which shocked even us, and heck, we’re bold enough to say we won the Jamie Collins trade! Yeah, seriously, now that we’ve re-signed the guy we honestly feel like we pulled one over on old Bill. Of course, he does have that Lombardi Trophy thing down pat.

Give us Garrett, Garoppolo and let us pick two more Day 2 players, and we are downright giddy about our haul. And heck, if the kid turns out to be the next Brock Osweiler, it’s not like we’d be crushed financially — remember, we have more than $100 million in cap space. Booyah.

So that’s our sales pitch. A little more well-thought-out than our owner taking draft advice from a homeless dude or our Hollywood GM playing musical chairs with our picks, right? That’s what we thought. That’s why we’re Team Jimmy (Garoppolo, not Haslam).

The prudent, patient Browns GM (played by Frank Schwab): Three years ago, every NFL team (including us) passed on Jimmy Garoppolo in the draft, and most teams passed twice. The old regime here picked Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel in the first round instead, but let’s not talk about that now. What has really changed with Garoppolo since then?

He learned from Brady? That was supposed to be the magic potion for Matt Cassel, Ryan Mallett and Brian Hoyer, too. Learning from Peyton Manning was supposed to be a positive for Brock Osweiler. You don’t become great by osmosis, and a lot of teams have blown a lot of assets assuming Brady’s backups will be Brady clones.

Here’s what we’d have to give up for Garoppolo: likely the 12th pick and maybe more, and an Osweiler-type long-term deal. It’s not like we can trade a first for Garoppolo and then gamble we can re-sign him after 2017, so the contract extension has to be considered part of the deal. What has changed so much since 2014, when we thought Manziel was a better option (sorry, just threw up a little in my mouth), and 61 picks came and went without Garoppolo being picked? Are we really ready to treat Garoppolo like a franchise quarterback after 94 career passes? This seems very much like what happened with noted debacles Scott Mitchell and Osweiler – and Mitchell had 241 passes when the Detroit Lions signed him, and Osweiler had 305 before Houston signed him. Investing so heavily in Garoppolo after 94 passes is a blind leap of faith. He looked good, but again, it’s 94 NFL passes.

There’s also an opportunity cost involved, which nobody ever talks about. Let’s be honest – we’re going to be bad for a while. This was a total rebuild, and there should be no rush to add a few wins and go for 4-12 next season. We’ll be in position to draft high next season, when top quarterback prospects Sam Darnold of USC and Josh Rosen of UCLA, among others, should presumably be in the draft. We can’t draft either if we’ve already invested in Garoppolo. Once you make that move, Garoppolo is the guy for at least three or four years. Sink or swim with Jimmy. Or, you could use the 12th pick on a quality player – Alabama tight end O.J. Howard, to throw out a name – and then get your quarterback next season. What’s the harm in that?

If we trade for Garoppolo, we have to be absolutely sure he can be a franchise quarterback, or very close. If not, we’re setting the rebuild back to square one. It’s hard to bet all of that on a guy with less than 100 career passes.

Do you think anything Jamie Collins has to say about Garoppolo will influence the Browns decision?

Here is hoping we DO NOT give them a #1 draft pick for this guy ...

Hasn't the horse received enough kicks yet?

But a guy with zero career NFL passes is a safer bet?

2 people like this post...?

What guy in particular are you speaking of?

Off the field stuff, yes. I'd be shocked if they weren't asking Collins those questions if they are interested.

Guys like the ones you mentioned as draft possibilities in 2018. Or any other QB coming out of college.

Well going with the information we have at this point, yes the draft is the safer pick right now we know any player in the draft we can get and know what the cost would be.

James R. Garoppolo we don't even know if he will be traded or what the cost would be or if he would be a one year rental.

I know what you mean to say, but you could plug in a few names here and disprove your own premise about what is safe.

Was it safeer to draft Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden, or Johnny Manziel in the first round than drafting Joe Staley, Don'ta Hightower, or Jason Verrett who were all drafted after we made those picks?

There is simply more to it than "We need a QB and he is a QB." It really is the toughest decision that a front office has to make and the best answer to pick the shiniest turd is "No".

You could plug in a few names here and disprove your own premise about what is safe.

Was it safeer to get Scott Mitchell, Osweiler, Ryan Mallett or Brian Hoyer?

Again, the answer is No.

It's still just picking the shiniest turd.

Mike Lombardi thinks 49ers have best chance to land Jimmy Garoppolo

http://patriotswire.usatoday.com/2017/02...immy-garoppolo/

Mike Lombardi would not trade Garoppolo if he were New England

http://nep.247sports.com/Bolt/Mike-Lomba...gland--51443386

Mike Lombardi Explains Why He Doesn’t Believe Patriots Will Trade Jimmy Garoppolo

http://nesn.com/2017/02/mike-lombardi-says-he-doesnt-believe-patriots-will-trade-jimmy-garoppolo/

I am shocked Lombardi could crawl out from under Bills desk long enough to say all of that

All of those statements were made in a 30 minute radio interview crfs posted higher in this thread. As it was radio, we don't know where he actually was when the was interviewed. It's possible he was still under the desk.