DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Sashi Brown: Browns might roll with same QBs

I didn't know this about his teammates. His arm isn't that good, that is true. I'd say it's okay.



This I'd prefer. I don't think Taylor will be available though. After this huge payday, his contract becomes much more manageable. A new Coach isn't going to want to open up a huge gaping hole unless he has some sort of plan with what to fill it with. And losing Taylor would lead to Cardale Jones being the only QB on the roster. Taylor is in the driver seat here and I think he'll stay. Same with Jimmy. The Pats will Matt Cassel him next year depending on how Tom Brady is doing.


Hoyer would seem okay. Foles really has fallen off. I saw him playiing for the Rams and was so unimpressed. I like Hoyer because he's a good leader. That year we went 7-4 then 7-9 (and then Alex Mack got injured and it all went to hell), the team really rallied around him.

But the truth with Hoyer is, we'll never be better than 9-7 with him. Even if we had a star studded team like the Texans. And that's the best case scenario. All we're doing is kicking the can down the road. And we already did that last year by trading that 2 pick and trying RG3.

It's just a bad scenario. Wish we could have that Eagles trade back.


Myles Garrett is a great luxury at a very important position, but to compete, we'll need to get the QB taken care of. And I'm sure they're thinking, what happens if we find ourselves in the same position next year? What if the Pats don't want to trade Jimmy G? What happens when all the other college QBs flop or stay in college like Luck did?

It's just a lame reality. Garrett is the best player in the draft. He's a DE too. But I think we're gonna really have to try to convince ourselves out of Mitch Trubisky. One of those, bird in hand situations. We have the chance to draft whatever QB we want. The wheels won't really get turning until we solve this problem. How much longer can we go attempting to put a bandaid on a wound

EDIT:

I agree completely with this. Best option, if we're going to try to do the bridge thing IMO is Hoyer (assuming Taylor isn't there, which I don't think he will be)

thanks petey

I disagree w/some of your points, but I like that you debate logically and w/out insults.

A few points:

--Doesn't Buffalo still have EJ Manuel? I heard the FO wanted him to play last year and when Rex wanted to stick w/Taylor, he was canned early.

--I wasn't looking at Hoyer as a long-term answer. He would only be a bridge provided we can't get Jimmy G.

--I think the Browns have to take Garrett. I don't consider him a luxury at all. He is a stud at the second most important position on the field.

--I think Trub is very risky. I am NOT saying he stinks or can't be good..........but he is a huge unknown in my book. People say Jimmy G is risky, but man, Trub has way more questions than he does.

We disagree on some things, but good conversation, nonetheless.

I think Taylor is the only realistic + improvement FA "get" and I simply cannot see the Jills NOT re-signing him. Who would they go with then? Maybe Hoyer but that would seem unlikely. (Not saying Taylor and Hoyer are equals.) I'm very lukewarm on Glennon and cooler than cold on any other FA not named Taylor or Hoyer.

If we don't get JG via trade, I expect we will draft our most-liked prospect at #33. I would give up the #12 for JG but I'd prefer to swap #1's and throw in something else to make it happen. If we can't get JG, that means we may have to roll with RG3 and CK and a ? that is likely a guy-not-ready-to-play. That wouldn't be my favorite plan, but it might be the best/only option we get.

I like CK and think he can develop...but he's shown he's not ready at this moment. I don't care at all for RG3. I'm afraid we could start the season with (4) QBs and not one that inspires much confidence. RG3 (vomit) + CK + Hogan/Foles/McCown-imposter + new guy. If we roll with RG3 from the start, we will need three guys who could play at any moment without having to ever play the newest guy...hence (4) QBs on Opening Day.

If people (not saying you) would look at the situation with the options available I think they would get on the JG wagon.

Here's where I see us today:

Go with what we have now and a new kid who will sit for at least a year;

Get Taylor or Hoyer (and dump RG3) and hope the guy we get is an appropriate bridge for the new guy who will sit for at least a year;

Get JG...start him Opening Day. Dump RG3 and keep CK and Hogan. Sign a developmental QB to replace Hogan if you wish.

Given the "top" QB's available in this draft, the best choice jumps off the screen.

I'm with you on Trubisky Vers. There's no way I'd take him at #1. But, I also haven't followed him as closely as others.

My general question would be, how does he compare to Wentz one year ago?

I am not an expert on Trub, but I'll offer my opinion. I think he is similar to Wentz in that they both have good arms, have/had a lack of real game experience, and are pretty good athletes.

I think Wentz is quite a bit bigger, has much better poise, and has more football intelligence.

Manuel is a FA this year. And I don't think Buffalo would want to stick with him anyway. I dunno what they ever saw in that guy. I tried so hard to get excited about him that Senior Year of his at FSU and was left disappointed. Very happy we didn't draft that guy.

A couple guys on here liked him, and I was kind of dumbfounded. Like maybe they didn't even watch him play, just listened to the talking heads on ESPN. lol, you probably felt the same way.



I agree. My question was, how long can we go with these bridge type of guys? We go with Hoyer this year, and what's the answer next year and so forth? (Although at that point, Cody Kessler might be ready to be the next Brian Hoyer, lol. He doesn't get talked about, but he'll be a decent backup in this league. He'll form into one of those "Bridge" QBs)




I'm absolutely with you here. My post clearly wasn't a ringing endorsement. I just think that there's gonna be a decent amount of pressure on the FO to find themselves a QB (From Haslam and/or themselves). And picking one at 12, who knows who'll be there (if any).


We'll see I guess. Who knows, maybe Taylor will be released and he can join the Browns. Maybe we'll pick up Hoyer again and that'll hold us over. Glennon wouldn't be that bad either. I like teh Hoyer idea though, just beause of the state of our team (age and what not)

EDIT:

I agree with this. Wentz had a swagger about him that I liked a lot. He seems extremely confident, in a good way. I'd prefer Wentz over Trub for sure. He just looks like an NFL Starting QB. That's how he carries himself


And........



What can i say, you're welcome. lol

I do like hearing that Trub has a Wentz-like arm.

If we stick with the QB's we have, then we'll have another 1-15 season.

so what would you suggest to do? which QB gives us the:

a. best record in 2017
b. best record from 2017-2027

I don't think it'll be that bad. 1-15 is pretty darn bad. We almost beat the Ravens and the Dolphins last year. Our team will only get better. I don't like putting those kind of numbers on us.

We won't be much better might be a fair thing to say

The way you ask the question offers an interesting perspective.
B is definitely a very important question to ask.
I'm not sure how important A is to the team.
A definitely has impact on the fan base and possibly Hue.
If A could have significant impact on Hue, it becomes more important.
We can't keep the coaching carousel going.

JMO. This is not the year for a QB, at least that is what all the experts are saying. I would draft heavily on d in the first 2 rounds because that is where the talent is. Now if one of the QB's falls past the 1st round then I might think about taking him but only if. I would use FA and later rounds for the O. We're probably going to be drafting high again next year when the QB class should be better. We can get our guy then. JMO

That's quite a leap from 1 to 20.

I think before we spend big money on a QB or spend a top pick on a QB - we need to establish an offensive line. What I saw last year, no QB is going to excel here with no protection and a off-and-on, hot-and-cold run game.

well said jester ... it's not important what our record is THIS YEAR as long as the FO/Coaches remain in place. That's on Haslam to stay the course.

IMO, we're better off drafting the two best players at 1 and 12 (or taking a king's ransom) and get the best QB next year (yes, we'd still be at the top with assets)

Some of out issues were injury related..

What was the best Oline in the league last season, Dallas? What happens if the Center goes down, the Left Guard goes down and you have to move your right guard to Center and fill holes with guys that haven't proven anything yet?

Without a doubt, the Oline gets way worse.

But you are right, it needs addressed. I'd like us to pick up Mangold and draft a couple of guys as well.

We can do all that and still draft a QB early.. Not that I'm saying that's what we should do..

I just can't see us signing Mangold; it goes against basically everything the FO/staff has preached for a year

j\c Maybe some of you dawgs can answer this question. Why isn't there any interest in HOGAN he has an NFL arm I think, but most of all his first game and he broke the QB rushing record for the BROWNS, can some one tell me what am I missing here .
Thanks

I don't recall our line being much effective at the start, when we had Greco and Joel.

I don't think the OL was that bad last year. I think we had 3 qbs who held the ball too long and that we often played from behind, which meant we had to pass a lot.

Tough combo for any OL.

I recall a lot of free runners, clean hits on the QB even almost taking a snap. They exploited our center position and pressured the right side often. I don't think our first unit, our "healthy" first unit got much of a chance to gel with each other.

I definitely can also recall many, many instances where the ball was held too long by the Qbs as' well though. But I was referring mainly to our first unit at the beginning of the year, without injury.

We simply disagree. No big deal.

I rewatched the Browns win over SD recently. On one play, Austin Pazstor did a textbook job of guiding his man wide and well beyond the pocket, but RG3 just stood there, studying the field and not even using his feet to buy a little time in the pocket.
Sure enough, Pazstor's man finally got to him.

Like I said, I can remember holding the ball too which is a fault on the QBs. McCown and RGIII, both, but I will still fault a lot of other plays on the crappy protection.

Does anyone know a site where I can look up how many sacks, qb pressures and etc we endured throughout the season?

I'm very comfortable with the idea of Hoyer returning. I think a lot of good could come of it.

But I'm hung up on a few things: namely, what is his expectation in terms of a commitment from the FO, and vie a versa? Where is Hoyer's head at? Is he still of the mind he's a legit starter and would he be looking for that kind of commitment from us? (Certainly not talking an Osweiller type contract, but a starter's contract none the less). Or has he accepted that he'll be in that perpetual #2 QB on the cusp of being a #1 QB but can't quite get there Hell and he'd just be happy with an honest opportunity to grab the #1 spot? Is he willing to play the part of a bridge QB?

Hue's offense succeeds on timing. Reasons it struggled guys were out of place or poor execution. Another major problem was QB change. OL injuries added more issues.

RGiii ever learns to stop doing it all himself and utilizes his teammates he'll be a much better QB. He needed a season of play to build confidence in himself and trust others.

One other thing I like to add. Don't give up on Cody just yet. I think we will be pleasantly surprise this season. I don't think Cody will every be a playoff quality QB. I believe he will be strong enough to move this team forward without being pressured to draft a QB Hue doesn't think is the answer. I see Kessler as a Hoyer or McCown clone.

probably our best shot at being good for an extended period:

draft Garret, Maximize the #12 and #33 picks (however that is, whether drafting or trading)
keeping Kessler/RG3 at QB (to ensure 1-3 wins)
draft Darnold

I don't think Hoyer is a position to demand much at this point of his career. I don't think we'll sign him, but I think he will understand his "place" on the team wherever he signs.

A few points:

--The OL was not great. However, like I said earlier, QBs holding the ball too long, receivers not getting open, being behind in the second half, having to pass too much, etc all made things harder on the OL than it should have.

--I don't believe Kessler will ever be a quality starter in the NFL because he can't/won't make throws that are necessary to challenge the defense. Teams stack the LOS and take away the run game and force you to dink and dunk your way down the field. You might have a drive or two a game, but you can't win w/out a running game and challenging a defense in the intermediate areas and deep.

Lets see how Darnold plays this year. Keep in mind, as a conference the Pac12 was awful last year and who is to say it wont be again this year? So, what TRUE competition will he face?

Also, I seem to remember after the Championship game everybody was super pumped about drafting Cardale Jones. "Fail for Cardale" people said. He was taken in the 4th and started last season as the 3rd string QB only playing in, I believe one game? Depending on how the Bills QB scenario plays out maybe he will get his chance but, he has yet to prove he is an NFL QB.

Not saying Sam Darnold wont be and isn't the best QB next year but, it seems premature to want to have another terrible season just to pin everything on a high draft spot for one dude.

Not to mention, someone suggested He might not even come out next year. Wouldn't that be a kick in the pants?

Are we agreeing or disagreeing?

My take fix the defense. Yes, Cody will dink and dunk hopefully average two TD and a couple of field goals per game.

I think run game improves as Cody improves reading defenses. More Cody can play up tempo and rhythm play the better the offense.

If Browns do nothing at the QB position, I feel Kessler gives us a better chance then RGiii.

Do we need a better QB? Yes. Is it going to happen this year? If we do get a QB, how good are the Browns this year? Getting "the guy" this year in my opinion simply ends the conversation Browns need a QB. I still say they are lucky to win 8 games.

Neither and both.

I was just adding my opinions to yours and another post.

I don't think that Hessler "dinked and dunked" more than most young QB do. (especially with a very, very young WR corp, and 2 or 3 TE being 1st year players) I do think that his passes do not have the zip that some other QBs have, but I think that he has enough arm to win with, if he develops sufficient touch and timing.

Kessler threw 69% of his passes from behind the LOS out to 10 yards in the air.

Garoppolo, granted in a very short sting, threw 74% of his passes behind the LOS to 10 yards in the air.

Wentz threw 70% passes from behind the LOS to 10 yards in the air.

Prescott threw only 60% of his passes behind the LODS out to 10 yards in the air.

Tyrod Taylor threw 65% of his passed fro behind the LOS to 10 yards in the air.

Jameis Winston threw only 53.5% of his passes from behind the LOS to 10 yards in the air.

Trevor Simeon threw 68% of his passes from behind the LOS to 10 yards in the air.

Derek Carr threw 66% of his passes from behind the LOS to 10 yards in the air.

Look at the WR corps Kessler had to work with. He had Pryor, but he had almost all rookie WRs, and Coloeman missed half the year with an injury.

I think that Kessler has enough arm to be a winning QB. My concern is that he looked slow, and sometimes confused, when scanning the field. Kesler threw from sideline to sideline. He was weaker to the left sidelinee, but solid to the right sideline. He was most effective throwing to the middle of the field.

In some of his starts, his WRs were Pryor, Hawkins, Louis, and Higgins.

He also had ups and downs throughout the season. He played well against the Dolphins and Titans, and played decent, though not special, games against the Redskins and Cowboys.

He played only part of one Bengals game, having completed 9 of 11 passes for 82 yards. Hogan came in and completes 12/24 passes for 100 yards. Ugh.

Anyway, I look at the team from last year, and wonder what QB could have succeeded here. Maybe a veteran who makes split second decisions and throws the ball like Brady does, in like .000000001 second after the snap. (a "slight" exaggeration) Anyway, I would be willing to see what we have in Kessler, with a year under his belt, and NFL off-season program, and a more experienced team around him. I still hope that we draft Webb in the 2nd or 3rd. I think that he's going to be a really good NFL QB. My fear is that he goes to a team like Pittsburgh, who has him sit behind Big Ben, and then steps in to seamlessly take over for him when Ben retires.

Anyway, as far as Kessler, I am not willing to write him off yet, and I am also not willing to commit to him at the expense of adding another QB in the draft. I would not be willing to take any of the QBs available in the top of the 1st round of this draft.

Anyway, my $0.02 worth.

What a lot of people miss about the passing game last year was the design of the passing game. I've been trying to put it out for a while by showing cut-ups that illustrate the depth of the targets that the quarterbacks were throwing to. There were often screencaps where there would be only a running back available Within eight yards of the line of scrimmage compare that to some offenses where every receiver is available within eight yards from line of scrimmage. I save this because of course the quarterbacks have a choice and how quickly they get rid of the ball but without a doubt the designs of the play-calling and passing game also plays a role and how quickly the quarterbacks get rid of the ball period that is not to say that the line had a good pass protection Warpath protection only that the longer the quarterback holds the ball for the by choice or by design of the offense for the more hits and sacks they will take.

And if you look at the passing game over the last three games especially the Chargers game and the Steelers game you see a shift in the play calling in the depths of the targets.

No offense, but your stats are incomplete. Heck man, Hue even talked about this.

Doesn't he know more about it than guys like you, ed, and me?

Sure hope Hue does.....I like Kessler AND J Thomas stated he showed guts and ability...who better than Joe to judge...he's seeing it....our D got us behind early and often...so then O is forced....simple, but at least mostly true.....ON subject, Sashi saying what GM suppose to say, silly season, NO WAY do we stand pat at QB.....GO Browns!!!! PS- I don't want RG!!! on team anymore- JMHO, to brittle!!!