DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Plan

For the record...I posted this Thursday morning March 9, 2017 in another thread...and yes...I want a cookie.

There are some agenda-posters on this Board who will hate to read/acknowledge this post. I didn't care this morning...I care even less tonight.

GO BROWNS!

You get my props... I read it when you posted it the first time. I am really enjoying this NFL FA period.

I thought everyone realized we basically tanked last year.

You said this:



then you say:



If no one knows what the plan is, how do you know they've been following the plan all along? How do you know what they did todays wasn't the FO learning from mistakes from last year?


Personally, I'm not going to be impressed until they prove they can put together a team that can win games.

Why should we assume that the two points you bring are incompatible?

It's wholly possible to have a plan, recognize flaws either in the plan or in execution, and then correct those deficiencies without altering The Plan in any fundamental way.

I typically don't chime in with player movement, no Jg, steady as she goes.

The great pyramid of Giza needed a base, before a limestone cap.

man bro, you're finding new and creative ways to hate.

they selling that hate juice buy one get one free, i see.

j/c:

Personally, I think "the plan" has been altered. I think it was altered because Hue and perhaps other coaches went to ownership and voiced their concerns. I think they wanted more of a say in which talent was acquired and I think they wanted more talent brought in. I think their message carried more weight on the heels of a 1 and 15 season where the Browns were the butt of constant jokes in the national media.

Just my opinion on the situation. Not sure if I am right or wrong. And I don't even need a cookie.

You never answered anybody regarding the big extension they gave Bitonio. I guess that doesn't fit your hateful agenda that they don't resign their own.

I'm not falling for your stall tactic by rooting through the threads finding quotes and links for you.

No less than half a dozen people mentioned it to you or don't you read anyone elses posts while you're thinking up the next hateful thing you want to say?

Here, I caved and dug up the first time I mentioned it to you. It's in the Kenny Britt thread.

j/c

Three false narratives took one on the chin yesterday:

#1 - No free agents worth a darn will come to play in this mess.

#2 - The Browns are cheap.

#3 - The FO doesn't know how to get things done to improve the team.

Cue mac.

I don't give a crap about the plan. I care about the result. Last year the result was a hot, steamy pile of dawg crap. We'll see what the result is this year. Whether it's The Plan, an adjusted plan, a revised plan, or a panic driven new plan doesn't matter to me one bit. Just get it right.

Willie .. I've always LOVED THE PLAN .... ask vers he knows ... *LOL* ..

I've always questioned wether they could EXECUTE IT ...

yesterday did not prove to me they could ... YESTERDAY WAS THE BEST DAY THIS FRANCHISE HAS HAD since our return ... no doubt about that ...

It was FINALLY a GOOD DAY TO BE A DAWG ... u can count on one had the number of those days we've had since our return ...

To me .. they proved a few different things yesterday that are a lot different from most of your guys points ... *L* ..

We got lots of time to talk about this stuff ... so I'll save the unpopular stuff for another day ... no sense raining on everyones parade ... I'll let this sink in for a few days before I sprinkle my special brand of reality in .. *L* ..

Anyhow Willie .. i always LOVED THE PLAN ... still question their ability to execute it ..

Question ... if the guys not wanting to play here myth was blown up .. please explain to me why Jefferson took less money to play for the rats? ...

The FO has been cheap .. yesterday they weren't ... yesterday they THREW MONEYBALL IN THE GARBAGE .... how else do u explain making Zietler the highest paid guard in the league? .. thats not a MONEYBALL MOVE ....

Does he wear a tin foil hat?

Everyone should have this post on their clipboard, as it's probably the only way to get temporary relief from mac.


As for The Plan...
I was wondering yesterday if they are deviating or if this fits into what they want to do. On the one hand, I started getting a very "Eagles Dream Team" feeling at the end of the day yesterday. We spent a LOT of money on some top FA's. Talent is great and all, but to pull a 180 like that has a scent of desperation to it. I'm a Browns fan so I always expect the worst.

On the other hand, I can see strategy behind who they picked up. They have been trying new and different ways to build up a strong OLine for several years now. If this doesn't do it, then nothing will. They do this with the draft looming, with its bevy of good defenders we should be able to get.

Overall, I'm trying to be cautious in my optimism. The FA's we brought in should help, but hey, you never know. The thing I'm really happy about is that we can emphatically squash some of the negative traits we thought our FO had. They are not cheap, they pay our guys that play well (or try to, in Pryor's case), they can land the big fish FA's when they want to, and (more generally) they aren't a bunch of children driving Dad's car (in terms of running this team). They can make smart, creative moves that help this team. That last sentence wasn't something I could say with any confidence before.

Sure it is.

Moneyball is not about not spending money, it is about not spending money stupidly.

Zeitler instantly upgrades the o-line in a year where o-line is weak in the draft. He's 27 years old so he will play out the entire contract barring injury. Giving Pryor $13 mil to $15 mil a year, when we only have one season to base it off of would have been throwing Moneyball in the garbage.

I agree with Dep Dawg. The FO is not cheap. Last year was the tear down, why would we spend $$ in a tear down? This year is a start to build it up. Were using some $$ to shore up the OL and will still use the draft for our main players. This is still going with the Plan.

Come On Man ...

dangit

How Browns' 'Moneyball' strategy could land right franchise QB

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/cle...rk1gwel11ho4bjx

You can see what the best-case scenario for the Browns is if you look past all those jokes tied to the franchise's brutal past and the "Moneyball" and "Draft Day" memes and GIFs lumped in with the present.

General manager Sashi Brown, chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta and coach Hue Jackson are taking an unconventional approach for sure. That's magnified after Thursday's bold NBA-style trade with the Houston Texans for Brock Osweiler that netted a 2018 second-round pick and a 2018 sixth-round pick. There's an exciting plan in place, but that still needs to include Cleveland's franchise quarterback.

MORE: NFL free agency winners, losers

It might take one more year to get there, and given what Cleveland is doing that's OK. It's OK if Osweiler starts for a year. It's OK if the Browns dump Osweiler and turn to Jimmy Garoppolo. It's OK if they take a pass on the offer by fellow draft-pick hoarder New England. There isn't a sure-thing franchise quarterback available in this year's draft or free agency anyway.

If Cleveland can wait just one more year, however, then there's a draft class that potentially includes USC's Sam Darnold, UCLA's Josh Rosen and Louisville's Lamar Jackson. That's a tough sell for a fan-base coming off a 1-15 season and trotting out their 27th different starter since 1999, but that might just be part of the master plan. It should at least be considered.

There's no guarantee Cleveland can get any of those guys, but they can make a strong play. The Browns now have 22 picks for the 2017 and 2018 NFL Drafts, with eight of those coming in the first two rounds. They can package and repackage those to move up and down draft boards as needed. That's a huge advantage.

In the meantime, the Browns – for once – should keep doing what they are doing. The best moves on Thursday were adding Green Bay center J.C. Tretter and Cincinnati guard Kevin Zeitler. Cleveland also extended Joel Bitonio to a five-year, $51.2 extension.

"It sounded like Cleveland just offered the best deal. My agent suggested I go with it," Zeitler told SN's Alex Marvez.

Imagine that—Cleveland a destination site. More importantly, the offensive line is no longer "Joe Thomas and other bodies." That's a legitimate front that can open things up for the running game and prevent a quarterback from taking a league-high 44 sacks. The Browns addressed one of their biggest needs before the draft.

About that 2017 NFL Draft, which includes four of the first 52 picks. Cleveland can take Myles Garrett at No. 1 without over-thinking it. Pair Garrett with Emmanuel Ogbah, who led the team with 6.0 sacks as a rookie. That's a no-brainer.

The Browns, however, can enjoy the freedom with the No. 12 pick. It doesn't have to be a quarterback if Deshaun Watson, Mitch Trubisky or the others do not feel right. It could be a bold pick or a small trade up for, say, a 240-pound running back who just ran a 4.51 at the NFL Combine. Hello, Leonard Fournette.

Remember that 2014 NFL Draft first round that landed Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel? A Garrett-Fournette combo would generate about 50 times more excitement in Cleveland. There's your "Draft Day" script re-written. Only the quarterback question – the biggest question in Cleveland – hasn't been answered.

Osweiler or whoever under center can work with that. It might not win the AFC North, but the progress could lead to the final step. That's landing the franchise quarterback. If it's not Osweiler or Garoppolo, then who is it?

It can be found in the 2018 NFL Draft. Jackson loved drafting Cody Kessler. How much better is Darnold? He's a Heisman Trophy candidate who is drawing comparisons to Joe Montana. Rosen could have a bounce-back year at UCLA. Jackson could win a second Heisman Trophy and continue to improve at Louisville. Those are real long-term, home-grown options at quarterback, unlike what it out there this year with the exception of maybe Watson. It's risky to wait on Darnold, Rosen or Jackson, but it's worth a try.

If Cleveland can wait until next year (yes, we know that's the eternal motto), then the quarterback might come and be set up for success given all the other moves Brown, DePodesta and Jackson have made. You can say Cleveland is building this thing backwards with unconventional thinking, or you could say they are fortifying the offensive and defensive fronts like a smart football team should. They have enough picks to make a deal for the right quarterback in 2018. This plan might work, and that would bring "Moneyball" to the NFL like never before.

We've seen the worst-case scenario play out almost every year since 1999. At least Brown, DePodesta and Jackson envision something else. Can Browns fans envision a scenario that includes an offensive line, Garrett, Fournette and Darnold? That would would be something, all right. That's a hell of a plan, and that's OK, too.

If it doesn't work, then all those jokes won't be hard to find.

Yes, it definitely does.

Money talks and makes believers of most everyone.
Mercenaries get the job done.

"The Plan?"

Winning would top my list.

I think you just shot yourself in the foot sir. Or maybe blew your foot off at the knee.

So Zeitler signs with the Browns - while the Browns have the best offer on the table. You question his desire to be on the Browns.

Pryor - Does not sign with the browns, while the Browns have the best offer on the table (according to many undisputed sources) .... But you must think Pryor wants to be here and somehow it's all the fault of the FO that Pryor has not signed.

That is an untenable position to take.

Don't worry. mac will make it work, somehow.

Common Man??

How about this plan. Going all the wayyy back to 2006.

There are 4 teams in the AFC North

Steelers,-- Steelers fans,

Ravens,-- Ravens fans,

Bengals,-- Bengals fans,

Browns,-- Browns fans.

Now. at ANY POINT, ANY GIVEN TIME goint alll the wayy back to 2006,

If you ask any of three of those groups, this question.

"Who's your teams quarterback?"

3 of those groups could answer you, without even thinking about it. Browns? Not so much.

I hope the plan is to change that!

Where's the fun in that?

I kinda enjoy keeping everyone, including us, guessing

Not to mention at this time last year Alex Mack wanted so much to stay in Cleveland rather than going to Atlanta, that he wouldn't even listen to any offers from Sashi

Fixed that for ya TL

Are you telling me the Harvard boys beat up the homeless man who drafted Johnny Manziel for us? Can I become this excited about violence towards the homeless?

Didn't your love, Pryor, have surgery just a while ago, on his finger? I mean, come on, as a receiver, the hands are kind of a big deal, right?


Yet you're pissed we haven't signed him for $12/year, and then you go on and gripe about signing players that had surgery.

Vambo's article is saying, better than I could, what I've been trying to say. We don't have to fix the QB position this year. I like JG, but I don't think NE will trade him for anything less than (the chance to draft) Garrett. And if they're willing to trade their (40 y/o) Brady insurance policy for Garrett, what does that say about Garrett. JUST DRAFT GARRETT!

IF the QBs who are eligible do come out, next year's crop looks much better than this year's choices. We have the ammo to trade up...you know, just in case we aren't already in the top 3.

Trade for JG as long as it doesn't cost us Garrett. But if we can't, W8 4 Nxt Yr Again.