DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns to sign Kevin Zeitler

People are, and always have, severely underrated Schwartz. He is a very, very good football player.

It doesn't matter anymore. I am not sure why we are having this discussion. Zeitler is good. Schwartz is good.

Here's PFF's rankings from this past season:

You are probably right. And it's probably unfair.

ddubia - I hadn't seen that. Thank you for sharing. And that probably paints a different picture than I had thought....

I'll leave it with 2 things. I think Mack is a much better Center than I think Schwartz is a RT. I also do not think that Schwartz transforms our OL even with the additions this free agency period into the Dallas OL of this year. Just my opinion.

It just says T for his position on the Chiefs' roster. I'm not sure why you are so focused on the semantics.

I think Schwartz is a solid tackle. I don't think he is Hue's ideal RT, though. I think he fits a zone scheme better than a power scheme.



That's from PFF's write up on Shon Coleman. I think that's what Hue wanted.

I don't know. I think he's above-average, but I don't know that he's one of the best RT's in the game. Up until his last year in Cleveland, just about everyone was calling to replace him at RT.

I wasn't trying to pick a fight. I just think it is time to let it go.

I am not happy about him leaving, but I am willing to move on. It's hard to move on when people keep bringing it up. I am sure many of you get irritated w/mac when he won't let something go, right? So, it's understandable others might get irritated when people go to great lengths to defend every move the FO makes.

Each move is independent. We can offer a more complete evaluation after three years. I think they have made some bad moves and some good moves. I think things are trending up.

I am just asking for you--and some others--to let it go. Just like we wish mac would "let go" the "not keeping your own" garbage."

I'm not mad or upset. Not trying to pick a fight. Just tired of the "sides" thing.

That's fair enough. But when MS is brought up or mentioned in other posts (continually) at some point it's relevant and appropriate to talk about him.

Yes, of course.

I promise I will try not to bring him up.

First, here is my required preface on the subject: Losing Schwartz was a mistake, and an even bigger mistake given how it all went down, imo. We may never know the full story of what happened... so between that, and the fact that it has been an entire calendar year and what went down during this FA season, let's just chalk it up to our FO dialing in their process (for better or worse), and let it be. Let it go, as vers said.

Grimm,
This is what I was about to ask, and you already answered it. I was curious if we were going to see some changes in the line going from Shanny's zone scheme and Pettine's whatever scheme to Hue's. I'd love to hear anybody chime in with their own takes on this.

Breakdown of OG Kevin Zeitler’s contract with the Browns

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/3/12/1...with-the-browns

The full, year-by-year contract details for Cleveland Browns
OG Kevin Zeitler are now available, via multiple sources.
We will take a look at the structure of his contract, such
as his base salary, guaranteed money, and cap hits. Zeitler’s
deal is considered to be 5 years for $60 million with $23
million fully guaranteed.



There are still some grey areas with Zeitler’s contract, but
we’ve done our best to put the pieces together to form the
complete picture. He has $23 million that was fully guaranteed
at signing. $12 million of that comes via a signing bonus,
which is pro-rated on the cap to an amount of $2.4 million
per year. His base salary for 2017 ($6 million) is also
guaranteed, which brings us up to $18 million. The remaining
$5 million comes from the fact that half of his base salary
in 2018 is fully guaranteed.
Other reports say that Zeitler has $31.5 million in
guarantees -- where does that figure come from? OK, remember
that we’ve already accounted for $23 million worth of guarantees.
In March 2018, the remaining $5 million of his 2018 base
salary will become fully guaranteed, bringing us up to $28
million. At that same time, $3.5 million of his 2019 base
salary also becomes fully guaranteed, which gets us to the
$31.5 million amount. Odds are, the Browns aren’t going to
cut Zeitler before next March, so many will say he’s getting
$31.5 million guaranteed.
Other than that, the contract is pretty straightforward
and even throughout the life of the deal. 2019 is the first
year in which Zeitler’s contract becomes cuttable without
an overabundance of dead money — they’d carry $7.2 million
in dead money if they cut him in 2019.

In terms of average per year ($12 million), Zeitler is the
highest offensive guard in the league, surpassing the
$11.5 million per year that OG Kelechi Osemele got from the
Raiders last offseason. There is no doubt about it --
the Browns are paying top dollar for Zeitler, but it’ll
go a long way in improving the team’s pass protection and
run blocking for head coach Hue Jackson.

I don't like the way it's structured. They should have front loaded more of that money.

It does seem odd - given our cap space this (and most likely next) year, why not move $3-4-5 million from the back end to the front? Makes it much easier to keep him around at a time he should be hitting peak age and when we'll hopefully be a play off team.

I am not sure on this but I believe anything paid up front gets avg out and prorated over the course of the contract to stop teams from paying too much up front. I could be wrong though. I know signing bonus money is treated that way though.

Most teams do the contracts like the Browns did, because that helps them kick the can down the road. They hope that the cap keeps climbing so they can keep doing the same thing or they have to start cutting high priced guys and living with the dead money.

The Browns have tons of cap room though, and they should be loading more of it to the front of the contract for the following reasons:

1. It gives them more cap room in the future by using the cap room now.

2. If players don't work out, they are more tradeable/cuttable when there is less dead money on the back end of their contracts.

3. Players are less likely to slack off when they are more tradeable/cuttable.

4. It makes trades with other teams easier when you have more cap room and also are trading guys with cheaper years at the end of their contracts. This is how you trade older players for younger players.

If Zeitler can help our multiple QBs stay upright and off IR, while paving lanes for our RB...then it's worth it

Could it be something player/agent requested? I think it doesn't matter. Sashi has been front ending contracts. It could explain the contract.

It could be.

Or it could be that we still have some plans for that money. (like spending it on a QB)

You're right. Signing bonuses do get averaged out over the duration of the contract.... But I was strictly meaning the salary portion of the deal. I'm sure there is Reason for it, even if it's because something like analytics says most FAs don't see the final year of their contact....

Exactly. No matter what the future cap ramifications might be.

You can structure it any way that you like. Instead of a signing bonus you can load guaranteed money into the first year or two of the contract as well.

The same contract could have easily have been:

Salary Signing Bonus Guaranteed Salary
$12 mil $1 mil $12 mil
$10 mil $1 mil $6 mil
$10 mil $1 mil $0
$10 mil $1 mil $0
$6 mil $1 mil $0

The source says that they are unsure about a lot of the bonus money, so that may be front loaded, but I would still expect more.

The full details of the contract have not been released.

Protect, protect, protect. At all costs.

So what are the details showing on the reports? $6 million salary first year escalating to $12 million? My suggestion is to take 3 or more million of the last year or two and put them into the front year or two.

If we still have close to $70 million cap space this year - why not use it to offset future costs. Maybe in 4 years time when Zeitler is due $12 million - our cap space will be just fine. Maybe we'll be cutting good players because we are hitting the cap? We don't know ... so why not use the space when you know you have it.

Because why would a player except a front loaded deal knowing that it just mean something it won't see all of it?

More towards the end of the deal can lead towards renegotiations.

Actually it is the back-end of the contracts that they don't see. All players usually want more money now. Teams satisfy that need and still tack it on the back-end by use of the signing bonus. That is also why the last years of the contract have the higher salary too.

The browns are not most teams though. They have plenty of cap money now and using it wisely now will give them more cap money later.