DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Jimmy Garopollo part 6?

Patriots aren't done trading after landing Brandin Cooks

Just when everyone thought we could finally start our weekends, the Patriots and Saints sent the NFL and social media into craziness with the Brandin Cooks trade. The Patriots traded the 32nd and 103rd pick for Cooks and pick 118. That leaves the Patriots perilously thin on draft picks in what is considered one of the deepest drafts in years.

Well count me as someone who thinks the Patriots have much bigger plans. That plan probably involves trading Jimmy Garoppolo, Malcolm Butler or both.

The Patriots currently can't trade Butler because he hasn't signed his restricted free agent tender. He's technically not under contract. That hasn't stopped rumors from swirling he could still be sent to the Saints. He would probably require a first round pick. Actually, any team could sign Butler to a deal and the Patriots would receive a first round pick if they let him walk. That only recoups one pick though.

Which is where we come back to Jimmy Garoppolo. Throughout the offseason Garoppolo's name has been involved in rumors about basically everything. The Patriots don't want to give him up. It will take a bounty. The Browns and Bears are interested. No one has called the Patriots. Take your pick, all of those options have been reported.

Garoppolo would probably bring a first and a mid-round choice. Maybe the Patriots would take a whole bunch of second round picks, but no one really knows Garoppolo's market. It shifts every day. There is a team that has a ton of picks to give up: the Cleveland Browns. It almost makes too much sense.

Bill Belichick loves draft picks. It's difficult to envision him sitting out an entire draft. It would sacrifice short term gain for a lack of young long-term talent. It's not what the Patriots do. If Belichick is the cunning strategist a lot of people say he is, it means he's thinking multiple steps ahead. That would require picking up some draft picks by trading some talent.

www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/patriots-ar...&ocid=edgsp

fine then just send us Butler and JG and we send you #12. #33. a 4th this year two 2nds next year and BO ( we eat half his contact)

The Browns maybe gaining advantage on the trade if this is true...


Bill Belichick loves draft picks. It's difficult to envision him sitting out an entire draft. It would sacrifice short term gain for a lack of young long-term talent. It's not what the Patriots do. If Belichick is the cunning strategist a lot of people say he is, it means he's thinking multiple steps ahead. That would require picking up some draft picks by trading some talent.



First round - No pick

The Patriots sent the 32nd overall pick and a third round pick to the New Orleans Saints for WR Brandin Cooks and a fourth round pick.
Second round - No pick

The Patriots sent the 64th overall pick to the Carolina Panthers for EDGE Kony Ealy and the 72nd overall pick in the the third round.
Third round - 72nd and 96th

The Patriots have the 72nd overall pick from the Panthers, along with their original 96th overall pick.

The Patriots also sent the 103rd overall pick, which was acquired from the Cleveland Browns in the trade for LB Jamie Collins, to the Saints for Cooks.
Fourth round - 131st

The Patriots acquired the 118th overall pick from the New Orleans Saints, but should lose that immediately as penalty for DeflateGate.

This should mean that the Patriots should be able to use the 131st overall pick, obtained from the Seattle Seahawks in a 2016 draft day trade.

The Patriots sent their original 137th overall pick to the Indianapolis Colts for TE Dwayne Allen and a sixth round pick.
Fifth round - 163rd and 183rd

The Patriots acquired the 163rd overall pick from the Denver Broncos in exchange for TE A.J. Derby.

The Patriots traded away their original 175th overall pick to the Browns for LB Barkevious Mingo prior to the 2016 season.

The Patriots also have the 183rd overall pick as a compensatory selection for losing DT Akiem Hicks in 2016 free agency.
Sixth round - 200th

The Patriots received the 200th overall pick from the Colts, along with TE Dwayne Allen, in exchange for their fourth round pick.

The Patriots traded away their 215th overall pick to the Detroit Lions in exchange for LB Kyle Van Noy and a seventh round pick.
Seventh round - 239th

The Patriots obtained the 239th overall pick from the Lions in the trade for LB Kyle Van Noy.

The Patriots traded their original 250th overall pick to the Lions for TE Michael Williams.

Given how hard it is to find a high quality starting QB in the NFL, I have to think that if Belichick thinks he has one in Garappolo, he's not going anywhere.

If the Pats lose Brady to injury, and have to throw Brisset in for over half the year, are they still a Super Bowl team? How about if they have to play Garappolo? To me, this is the whole core of the matter. I find it hard to believe that Belichick would sacrifice a QB he trusts, in Garappolo, unless he also really trusts Brisset to be able to take the team to the Super Bowl, if necessary.

While many say that draft picks are the lifeblood of the Pats, really the lifeblood is the QB spot, and Brady in particular. Brady will be 40. There are no guarantees at 40, in the NFL. I think that Belichick knows this. He has a team set to repeat, and capable of repeating. If he weakens the QB spot, even the backup QB spot, then I wonder if they are as assured of repeating.

We'll see what happens, but I suspect that Jimmy will remain a Pat this year.

I am not saying they will trade Jimmy G, but have you not read the explanations that have been posted many times as to why they would trade him?

I can see NE keeping Jimmy G, but I think that would be a way bigger gamble on their part than trading him now. It's not rocket surgery [borrowed from That Guy.]

If I have a Super Bowl team, a 40 year old GOAT QB, who rarely gets hurt, but again, who is 40, and I think that I have the next Aaron Rodgers on the bench behind him, I don't think that I am trading Aaron. My team is a about as close to being a Super Bowl contender as there is, with no real weaknesses, but if my 40 year old QB gets hurt, I want to be safe in the knowledge that I didn't trade away Aaron Rodgers, and thus cost myself another Super Bowl.

The Pats are a team without a lot of weaknesses. They have been smart about trades, and about free agency. They have a great QB, but one who is, frankly, older than almost every other QB to play he game. They are as close to being a Super Bowl lock as any team in the NFL. They simply do not have to trade Aaron Rodgers, and if Brady were to get hurt, they would truly regret going so.

I have a hard time seeing Belichick doing so. Maybe I'll be proved wrong, and maybe he'll be sold on Brissett to be able to not only lead the team, but to lead the team to a Super Bowl win. However, if he is not sold on Brissett to that level, then I don't see him being happy with a guy who might get the team to the playoffs, when he has a guy who should be able to take the team to the Super Bowl.

We'll see what happens, but I don't think Garappolo is going anywhere.

I NEVER SAID HE WAS GOING ANYWHERE. Please stop redirecting what I said.

I am talking about the logic of whether or not to trade Jimmy G. Are you telling me that it makes ZERO sense to trade a backup player for multiple high round picks that likely include a first round pick instead of losing him to FA and only receiving a 3rd or 4th round comp pick? Seriously?

Again, I am not saying they will trade him. But logic says that they should trade him if his market value is as high as it is being reported.

This is beyond incredible.

All I am saying is that on that team, his value is likely to be higher than any package of draft picks that any team could even, unreasonably, offer. I think that Belichick said that, and it was blown off as a negotiating tactic by some, but based on their circumstances, I think that he simply told the truth.

Maybe I'll be wrong, but we'll have to wait and see.

I am not disagreeing that he has huge value. If Brady got hurt, he would be perfect for them.

I'm just saying it isn't a stretch to think about trading him if you could get a first and second round pick for a backup that you almost will assuredly lose in FA next year.

One thing is for sure. This has to be the most tight lipped FO/coaching staff combo we've ever had. There's literally no information on this groups thoughts on Garrapolo or the college QBS other than a report that Hue really likes Trubisky.

I view the lack of leaks as a positive these guys are working well together.

Therein lies the conundrum, JG has been groomed to be TB replacement. If TB suffers a season or career ending injury, JG steps in and becomes NE QB for the foreseeable future. If TB keeps going strong, he risks losing JG to FA after next season. If he trades JG, and TB gets injured, he risks losing a SB.

Another option, one that seems unfathomable, but of which BB is capable, is to keep JG, and after next year, trade or release TB anointing JG the new prince.

Good post.

One other scenario. I wish I remembered where I read it but there is starting to be whispers in New England that next season just might ne it for Tom Brady. In that case Bill does not trade Jimmy G and will franchise tag him after next season.

Diam. Quick devil's advocate question. For everyone.

If this entire board was a NE Patriots board. Knowing what we know about our team (NE). Knowing we now go to the draft with our first pick being #72. Cleveland is willing to trade us big compensation for Garoppolo.

Would you WANT us to trade our back up QB to Cleveland?

Based on the age of my starter, probably not. I'd want to win another Super Bowl this year.

Here's my thoughts.

You've said yourself that Bellicheck has a SYSTEM in NE. That system seems to be able to take a QB with any semblance of TALENT and make it work. Hell Brady lasted until Round SIX because of a LACK of talent. I hated Brady at Michigan because he looked like a SLOW Plodding fat POS. Lol.

So Bellicheck sits with a QB he took in Round TWO and a team is interested in giving up some serious picks in a draft that he has NO Picks until #72 in Round 3.

He just made a couple trades using those early picks and signed Gilmore. Outstanding moves to keep on rolling as defending SB Champions.

Now he's got a chance to recoup some picks. Including the possibility of the #12 pick in a deep draft with Superior talent in the Top 14 or so.

If I'm Bellicheck and or a NE fan, I'm LICKING my CHOPS at the thought of trading my back up QB for a serious haul and in turn I've just MAXIMIZED​ my value for a 2nd round pick 3 years ago.

Bellicheck has always been and always will be a proponent of No 1 player is bigger than the TEAM.

He WILL trade Garoppolo to us. I about GUARANTEE he will.

I fully believe he would NOT have made those trades if he didn't plan on accepting a trade for Garoppolo. That's NOT how NE works. Never has been. They've NEVER traded away high round picks and left themselves with NOTHING until pick #72.

Cleveland is getting their QB THIS YEAR and it's coming from New England. Watch. It's happening guys and girls.

Compensation?

Simple. Talk all we want to Bellicheck. NO offer is to include the #12 pick at first. Present a SOLID package of 2's and whatever else. When he doesn't BITE, you pull back on the HIGHEST 2nd rounder and SEAL the DEAL with #12 and the rest of the original package MINUS the highest 2 we offered.

Welcome to The Shores of Lake Erie, Polo.

Man I'm gonna LOVE watching Schefter do his best Michael Jackson Back Pedal when it happens.

I hope the trade happens for JG, and I think I spend BO to the Patsies as part of the deal (insist). We established a highball value for BO. Make that value part of the deal which favors us some. Get this done And take TRubisky. Go home.

Well, he does look pretty soft for a football player in that pic.

Brady should have lost last two SBs if not for idiotic opposing coaches. If he makes it this year and loses, do you think mister narcissist is going into retirement as a losing QB?

And do you think at 70yrs old BB is gonna tie his chain to a Brady-less NE wagon? They both exited stage right together.

Belichick is 64, football is his life; he's not going anywhere.

My bad, I thought I read an article saying he was 70. Thanks.

I'm with Peen ... if I'm a NE fan I wonder why anyone with a brain wants to trade him this year UNLESS Bill deems Jacoby ready to step in and execute 100% of the play book and execute it at a high level ...

Cause then we just franchise JG the next year and then do a sign and trade and still get a decent return .. not as much as we'd get next year ... but like I said ...

The reason we play is to WIN THE SUPER BOWL and in this day and age its better than 50% your going to need your back up QB at some point during the season ...

Thats what i would say if i were a NE fan ...

WHY NOW???????

The obvious answer is because now is when you can get something for him. Next year, you face the dilemma of either losing him for nothing, or having two QBs making over $20M because you had to franchise JG. The other part of it involves BB's internal belief system that he can always find the next guy. We may think its arrogance, or hubris, but I really think BB thinks players are interchangeable cogs in the machine he built - yes, even QBs. Some may argue that BB simply lucked out when he took Brady in the 6th round, but over the years I think he has proven to be an exceptional judge of talent, way ahead of the curve compared to most front offices in the league. And that's from a guy who hated him when he was here ...

Why can't they franchise him next year and then trade him after he makes a deal with another team, signs the tender, then u make the trade ...

Why/how is that not an option?

What happens to his salary if he is franchised?

If he's franchised ... he signs his tender, then they trade him, then he signs his deal with the new team, the new team assumes whatever cap ramifications there is for the new deal and NE has zero cap liability ...

Not sure how else it would work ... thats what makes sense ... but I've never looked it up ...

JG may even be able to sign the new deal he worked out with the trading partner instead of the franchise tender offer while still with NE ...

I guess its an option, but at a considerable loss of leverage for NE. Teams will know they pretty much have to deal JG, unless we are to believe that BB is willing to devote nearly $50M of cap space to his two QBs.

I am not expert enough on the cap regulations - or which QB needy teams have cap space. . . . so this is pure speculation. But if you keep him, franchise him and look for a trade you might be restricting your trading partners.

Also - this year JG can be kept for a year on a cap friendly salary to the Pats as insurance. Worst case a compensatory 3rd round pick if he walks.

But if you franchise him next year then there is every possibility that NE will be in a position where it would be impossible to keep him as his cap number would be enormous. Knowing Brady keeps signing team friendly contracts, he'd be earning more than Brady probably ... as a back up. I did see speculative comments about NE dumping Tom Brady .... and while this is a business, I can't see BB trading the guy who took him and won him so many Super Bowls. That's not business that's treachery! . . . . If you franchise him but teams know you can't keep him, I think you lose leverage.

I doubt JG ever has any more value as a trade-able asset than he does right now.

Has anyone gave any thought BB is going all in to win one more super bowl then retire? One thing he has not done won back to back titles. Basically keeping Garopollo as Brady's replacement has no meaning.

I really thought BB and Brady might call it quits after this last super bowl. I also think BB has a lot of respect for Cleveland. Remember when he wore the fedora in honor of Paul Brown. I wish I remember the game.

I don't know why or have any logical reason. I thought BB might be helping Cleveland. First the Collins trade and now maybe Garopollo. With the latest moves by the Patriots, I wonder if Bill and Tom are going all in to win a last super bowl.

No, I have not been drinking!!

I have thought that when BB retires, TB retires. They walk off the stage together.



Dude, I have had the same thoughts! I have had conversations with myself thinking "well, maybe BB has a soft spot for the Browns and wants to see us turn it around and is willing to help us. First via Jaime and now a trade with JG".

But then I wake out of my daydream and realize no, this is a competitive cut throat business. BB wants to win, BB wants to walk out as the greatest and create some distance so it takes somebody a while to eclipse his record and BB probably really could care less about any other team in the league.

I agree guys ... especially with the way Hogan played and Mitchell the rookie came along at the end of last year ... he got hurt but he played really well in weeks maybe 10 - 15 ... not sure what week it started but he was a contributor and made some big plays in 3 - 5 games down the stretch ...

And Cooks is one dimensional .. granted ... he's prolly the best in football at that very important dimension ... but Hogan filled that dimension quite admirably last year ...

Really wierd on a few levels ... anyhow, i think its a sign he's pulling the trigger ....

I think you misunderstood my question. I asked what happens to his salary if he franchised?

If you answer that question, you might understand why they would want to trade him now.

Ya ... i did misunderstand it ... guess what .... i still don't understand it .. *L* ..

Not sure what u mean by what happens with his salary .... if u know something ... how about u just say it ... much easier that way ... *L* ...

Okay..........let's keep it simple.

What would his salary be if he is franchised?

If Kyle thinks JG is his franchise guy ... why doesn't he offer his #2? ... i don't get it ...

Getting your franchise QB is not worth the #2 pick in the draft ... come on bro ...

That makes no sense ...

If Kyle thinks JG is his franchise guy ... why doesn't he offer his #2? ... i don't get it ...

Getting your franchise QB is not worth the #2 pick in the draft ... come on bro ...

That makes no sense ...