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Most of the time you can't win without good QB play. Sometimes you can when everything else is clicking just right. IMO Garrett is the best player in this draft from what I've heard and read. Take him. If he is "light in the backside" as some have said then we'll make him do a lot of squats after we draft him. 
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For what it's worth..........Bosa was Defensive Rookie of the Year despite missing all that time. That was why I quoted his name without having looked at the Chargers record or D stats with and without him. I know I heard teams already needed to gameplan for him by mid season.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Sorry but im tired of losing
picking Garrett will most likely be Jackson punching his ticket out of town. I don't see how he takes anything other then QB....there is no way he can win anything with the Qb on our roster...its just not gonna happen...Kessler, Hogan are trash, Osweiler could maybe be average if we even keep him....
you can't win in the NFL without QB play.
Garrett isn't a sure thing by any means, and neither is any of the QB..BUT if the QB pans out, it changes EVERYTHING for us...Garrett will not translate to wins....sometimes you have to gamble...in order to win.
PS: Yes, The Texans finally won a playoff game this year without that #1 overall pick Williams....
We will just wait till April and see I'll just post this right here: 10 Worst Starting Quarterbacks That Won a Super Bowl 10 Worst Starting Quarterbacks That Won a Super Bowl
By Answers Staff
1.Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens
Baltimore won Super Bowl XXXV thanks to one of the best defenses in NFL history. It had very little to do with their average-at-best quarterback. With that said, Dilfer did what he was asked to do. He managed the offense, made an occasional play, and didn't turn the ball over. He wasn't overly skilled, so that was about all the Ravens could expect out of him.
2.Jeff Hostetler, New York Giants
Jeff Hostetler quarterbacked the Giants in the postseason after starter Phil Simms went down with a broken foot. Hostetler had a marvelous postseason, while guiding the Giants to a Super Bowl XXV victory under head coach Bill Parcells. He didn't win the game's MVP, but he was efficient in defeating the Bills in the "wide right" game. This was the biggest highlight of his career.
3.Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Brad Johnson came out of Florida State with some hype. He was expected to be a quality NFL quarterback. And for part of his career, he was. But he was no superstar. However, he was able to quarterback Tampa Bay to a Super Bowl XXXVII victory over the Bill Callahan coached Oakland Raiders. The remainder of Johnson's career was fairly mediocre.
4.Joe Flacco, Baltimore Ravens
The 2012 NFL season was perhaps a fluke for Joe Flacco. But good for him. He parlayed a Super Bowl MVP into a massive contract. Unfortunately, he followed that up with a mediocre 2013 season. Now the Ravens are stuck with a questionable quarterback that just might destroy their salary cap space for the next 5 years. Don't worry, Joe, you'll always have 2012 to brag about.
5.Eli Manning, New York Giants
Unlike his superstar older brother, Eli has been quite the clutch quarterback when he gets to the playoffs. However, he consistently makes bad decisions throughout the season. To his credit, he did play a major role in leading the Giants to victories in Super Bowls XLII and XLVI - both over the New England Patriots. Eli took home MVP awards in both games.
6.Joe Namath, New York Jets
Everyone knows about Namath's guarantee before Super Bowl III, the game in which the Jets pulled a big upset over the Colts. What else is Namath known for? Not much, except maybe trying to kiss Suzy Kolber while liquored up on live TV. Namath was awarded Super Bowl III MVP and became a legend because of the guarantee he backed up. But he didn't do much else on the field the rest of his average career.
7.Jim McMahon, Chicago Bears
Jim McMahon was the cool dude with the cool shades that started at quarterback for the Bears in Super Bowl XX. The Bears dominated the Patriots, while McMahon threw for 256 yards on just 12 completions. Chicago was more of a defensive team with a stud running back (Walter Payton) than a passing offense. But McMahon did what he was asked, a la Trent Dilfer.
8.Phil Simms, New York Giants
The third Giants quarterback on our list is Phil Simms. He's one of the most talented QB's on our list. Simms was a solid NFL quarterback, but certainly not a superstar. He didn't play in Super Bowl XXV because of an injury, but he did win Super Bowl XXI MVP. He's now an NFL analyst and the father of two former college QB's.
9.Russell Wilson, Seattle Seahawks
Russell Wilson is an excellent game manager. He does what is asked of him. He doesn't make mistakes and allows his defense to control the game. He's a solid quarterback and he played well against the Broncos in Super Bowl XLVII. But he isn't a superstar and probably never will be.
10. Terry Bradshaw
Where would Terry Bradshaw be without the elite "Steel Curtain" defense? Probably not a four-time Super Bowl champion. The man threw two more touchdowns than he did picks (212 TDs versus 210 INTs) Good thing he moved into broadcasting and entertaining.
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No doubt. Needing a QB doesn't mean you should take a inferior QB over a guy like Garrett..
That is the ticket to failure.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Knight, you keep talking about Garrett vs. a QB in terms of the impact they will have on game outcomes. And your point is well taken, a QB has more individual impact on the game, generally speaking, then an edge rusher has. That doesn't mean edge rushers have no impact, and Vers has pointed out several edge rushers who have had great impacts on games.
But I digress. I want to talk about overall talent on the field. No matter how good your QB is, if the rest of the team has average or nominal talent, the team isn't going to be good. You have to have talent on the field besides the QB to win meaningful games.
The Browns lack talent. Period. The only exceptional talent on the team is Thomas, and he's aging. This team absolutely has to add talent to the roster. Yes, they absolutely have to get a QB too, but what you are talking about is taking a QB first, and allowing more talented players to go to other teams.
Below I have copied info from NFL . com Draft Tracker. First is the grade scale they [censored] grade category.
Grade Title
9.00-10 Once-in-lifetime player
8.00-9.00 Perennial All-Pro
7.50-7.99 Future All-Pro
7.00-7.49 Pro Bowl to All-Pro Ability
6.50-6.99 Good NFL Starter with Pro Bowl Potential
6.00-6.49 Chance to become good NFL starter
5.70-5.99 Could become early NFL starter
5.30-5.69 Backup or eventual starter
5.15-5.29 Developmental prospect or special teams potential
5.01-5.14 Back end of the roster
5.00 50/50 Chance of making the roster
Grade - Player - Pos
7.6 - Garrett, Myles - DE
6.9 - Fournette, Leonard - RB
6.8 - Thomas, Solomon - DE
6.8 - Allen, Jonathan - DE
6.7 - Hooker, Malik - S
6.6 - Adams, Jamal - S
6.5 - Cook, Dalvin - RB
6.5 - Trubisky, Mitchell - QB
6.5 - Lattimore, Marshon - CB
6.5 - Howard, O.J. - TE
6.5 - Charlton, Taco - DE
6.5 - Jones, Sidney - CB
6.4 - Njoku, David - TE
The highest graded QB is Trubisky with a 6.5. If we pick Trubisky over Garrett with his best in the draft (by a long shot) grade, that means the best we can do with #1 and #12 is 2 scores of 6.5, assuming all the teams that draft in between aren't foolish enough to pass over talent to fill needs.
WE NEED TALENT! All over the field. We cannot afford to pass on Garrett.
{I recognize these grades are not guarantees of future performance, and are projections only. But they are still pretty good measures of how they scale against each other based on past performance.}
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-grade
Last edited by W84NxtYrAgain; 03/14/17 10:37 PM.
1. #GMstrong
2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb
3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
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Myles Garret can't even score a 8/10 draft grade from NFL? Smells like a future bust to me!
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Why is a paragraph and a half of my post replaced by [censored]?
Last edited by W84NxtYrAgain; 03/14/17 10:41 PM.
1. #GMstrong
2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb
3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
4. ClemenZa #1
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From Jamal Adams on up I'd give them all a 7.0 minimum with miles at a 9 and allen and fournette at an 8.5.
Garrett, Allen, Solomon, Fournette, Hooker, and Adams are all pure studs who will end up at the top of the league each year. These top 6 guys to me are the best top 6 players that have come out at one time in decades. If we don't trade for Jimmy G. then we should do everything possible to move up in the draft and land Garret any ANY of these other guys. Hell I would sacrifice the future to try to move up again for a 3 pick from those guys.
I mean Garret first.
Then you go ultimate D-line with Allen or Soloman
Or
You pick up Hooker and Adams for a Godly SS and FS terror that will send fear to teams.
I mean that is a future defense worth sacrificing for. I mean just imagine the poor offensive line trying to stop Garrett, Allen, Danny, and Solomon ... It's just insane!!!
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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It's a dream scenario to grab 2 of those players - but not totally unrealistic. . . Guys right there on D in my mind, Reuben Foster for sure - and maybe the top CB that fits the D system, Lattimore or Tabor. I know there was some good discussion about how much time the D plays out of its base formation and whether Foster is good value... I think he's going to be a stud, so I would be really happy with him combine outburst or not!
This is one reason why I am happy with the options we have - if we trade for JG - we add your franchise QB. Nothing more important. If we stand pat - we have the opportunity to really fix the D and have some impact players. Collins, Garrett, Adams/Hooker, instantly upgrade players we already have - Shelton, Ogbah, Kirksey, Taylor.
You could maybe get seduced by leaning offense - Trubisky and OJ Howard .... but I'd bet we win more games with the improved D and Kessler or Brock at QB than would by adding Trubisky and Howard. . . . JG changes things. He's still my #1 choice to acquire but not at the expense of MG.... trouble is I literally have no idea what's going to happen with JG at this moment. One day I am convinced NE will deal as it seems impossible for Belichick not to have many draft picks ... then I figure as a Browns fan we just aren't that lucky for good things to happen like that!
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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All Pro
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Why they picking on the Giants so much?
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John Clayton, ESPN: "There is some trade with the Browns for Garoppolo in the works" http://www.mighty1090.com/episode/john-c...o-in-the-works/
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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First, he's partially misquoted, but he's basically hypothesizing based on NE's lack of picks. He has no more information about it than anyone else.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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First, he's partially misquoted, but he's basically hypothesizing based on NE's lack of picks. He has no more information about it than anyone else. You are correct. On the way back to the office, Cleveland Browns Daily shared the quote on their show. So upon getting behind the desk I found the article with the lead quote and posted it without listening. Never doing that again.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Yeah, Clayton just made it up. lol
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Nothing is quite so sad as watching Browns fans get their hopes up. 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Yeah, Clayton just made it up. lol I don't know about that, but his theory is as relevant as half the ones posted here.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Yeah, Clayton just made it up. lol The only time I ever enjoyed Sean Salisbury On ESPN was when they'd have him talk to John Clayton about something and he'd spend the whole segment making fun of him.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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NFL Rumors: Teams Still Believe Jimmy Garoppolo-To-Browns Trade Will HappenWelcome to the 2017 NFL offseason, where not a day goes by without a Jimmy Garoppolo trade rumor. The latest rumblings about the league’s most popular backup quarterback come from Bleacher Report’s Mike Freeman, who included an interesting note about the New England Patriots QB in his column Wednesday. Per Freeman, NFL teams “still believe” the Patriots will trade Garoppolo, with his “likely” destination being the Cleveland Browns. Freeman also confirmed New England’s expected asking price for Garoppolo — two first-round picks — but added a caveat: “Most around the league … think New England’s asking price will come down and there remains a solid chance of a trade happening.” This update, of course, runs in the face of several reports from ESPN’s Adam Schefter, who is adamant the Patriots won’t trade their 25-year-old backup QB. There’s a pretty compelling case for New England keeping Garoppolo, too: The roster already looks strong after a flurry of free-agent signings, and it might not be wise to trade Tom Brady’s most valuable insurance policy for first-round picks that could end up being superfluous. But Garoppolo is the most coveted NFL quarterback without a starting job, so it’s understandable why he’s drawing so much interest league-wide. The Browns, in desperate need of a franchise quarterback, might be willing to pony up those first-round picks to land Jimmy G, and an offer like that might be too good for Bill Belichick and Co. to refuse. At least, that’s what we believe now until another Garoppolo report tells us we’re wrong. Read more at: http://nesn.com/2017/03/nfl-rumors-teams-still-believe-jimmy-garoppolo-to-browns-trade-will-happen/
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I've stated before my suspicion that Bill sees Garoppolo as Brady's replacement and that he really doesn't intend to trade him unless it's for something too good to pass up. I understand the arguments about craving picks. It just makes sense to me that he sees JG as more than a backup. My view is he drafted him when Brady was 36 with the intention of grooming him for when Brady retires and he's happy with JG's potential. That Brady is still going strong is what has caused all this discussion. Time will tell, and as the draft gets closer, things could change. I still think, as it stands now, it will take more than the Browns are willing to give up to get JG.
1. #GMstrong
2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb
3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
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j/c:
A few more thoughts on the Jimmy G situation.
--I think that the possibility of NE trading him is still very much real.
--I think they drafted him to replace Brady, but Brady looks like is fully capable of playing 5-6 more years, which he has stated he wants to do.
--I think they could get more of a return for him this year than they could if they franchised him next year and then tried trading him.
--If they franchise him and no team wants to trade for him at that point, they would be stuck paying top 5 money to their backup qb.
--I don't believe Schefter is the type to fabricate stories. However, I think it is very possible that BB planted the story in Schefter's ear that they are not trading him. BB would do that in order to try and drive up the price for Jimmy G.
--I do not think the Browns will give up the first overall pick for him.
--I do not think the Browns will give up two first round choices for him.
--I think this story has a lot more twists and turns in it before the last chapter is written.
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jc What I think might be interesting if anyone can find the information is: What was the Patriots asking price for Mallet rumored to be vs what Mallet was eventually traded for? He was ultimately traded to the Texans for a7th rounder that could become a 6th based on playing time per http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...s-from-patriotsI seem to remember them asking for a 2nd but I just don't have a firm recall on that and cannot find it.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Good question, but I don't know the answer.
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Reportedly the Browns offered 2/20 this year and a 2nd next year (the Texans 2nd) and were told no. If the report is accurate then we have a starting point over which a deal could be framed. Pats want two 1s, and Browns are offering two 2s. It gives us parameters of where this will eventually go down should a trade occur.
I'm with Vers that unless they know Brady is leaving in the next year or two then their will be a trade at some point. I also think that they value him enough that we will probably have to give up at least 33 this year, and most likely 12. If I had to guess it will take 12, and two 2nds
Diam makes a good point that they aren't going to give a guy they truly value as Brady's insurance away. However, they aren't going to turn down multiple top 64 picks for insurance.
It really comes down to what they believe about Brady's future as if they are truly unwilling to trade JG.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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I think that's the best deal we'll offer. I honestly think a 2nd this year and a 3rd next year is more than fair.
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I think earlier in this thread or was it JG 6...LOL...I said that we could offer two second round choices.
I think NE should take that.
Of course, the one choice is Houston's.
Wonder if they would go for our original one instead?
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I think that's the best deal we'll offer. I honestly think a 2nd this year and a 3rd next year is more than fair.
Last edited by PastorMarc; 03/15/17 04:58 PM.
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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I think that's the best deal we'll offer. I honestly think a 2nd this year and a 3rd next year is more than fair. Another deep post, Pastor. Still waiting for your breakdown of Jimmy G's game.
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Maybe 33 and OUR 2nd next year??
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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I think that's the best deal we'll offer. I honestly think a 2nd this year and a 3rd next year is more than fair. Another deep post, Pastor. Still waiting for your breakdown of Jimmy G's game.
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Wishful thinking.
Fair has nothing to do with it other than fair market value.
Pick 12 is a given. There will be no action until that pick is on the table.
The starting point from the Browns perspective maybe second rounders but it will not be the Pat's.
In the end pick 12 and a second in 2018 is what I believe will settle it.
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They won't want our 2nd in 2018 because that'll basically be a 3rd rounder. 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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you guys havnt figure out it isnt jg we trying for yet? does "diminishing skills" ring a bell?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Future Starter.
Insurance Policy.
Tradable Asset.
I wonder how Bill B ordered these when he drafted Jimmy G, and how he orders them now.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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you guys havnt figure out it isnt jg we trying for yet? does "diminishing skills" ring a bell? LOL...........here are Brady's stats over the past few years: 2013: 60.5 Comp. %---4,343 Yds---25 TDs---11 Picks---87.3 Rating. 2014: 64.1 Comp. %---4,109 Yds---33 TDs---9 Picks---97.4 2015: 64.4 Comp. %---4,770 Yds.---36 TDs---7 Picks---102.2 Rating 2016: 67.4 Comp. %---3,554 Yds.---28 TDs---2 Picks---112.2 Rating Brady was suspended for the first 4 games of 2016, which hurt his numbers. If anything...........the guy actually is getting better w/age.
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Those are just stats, Vers, they mean nothing.  Edit: fixed typo
Last edited by lampdogg; 03/15/17 08:47 PM.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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you guys havnt figure out it isnt jg we trying for yet? does "diminishing skills" ring a bell? LOL...........here are Brady's stats over the past few years: 2013: 60.5 Comp. %---4,343 Yds---25 TDs---11 Picks---87.3 Rating. 2014: 64.1 Comp. %---4,109 Yds---33 TDs---9 Picks---97.4 2015: 64.4 Comp. %---4,770 Yds.---36 TDs---7 Picks---102.2 Rating 2016: 67.4 Comp. %---3,554 Yds.---28 TDs---2 Picks---112.2 Rating Brady was suspended for the first 4 games of 2016, which hurt his numbers. If anything...........the guy actually is getting better w/age. think if you had a 40 year old qb that you couuld get high draft picks for... and a qb that you lnow...KNOW is your qb ready to go and be your future... add into that people saying you have been riding bradys coat tails for your whole time....
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Belichick doesn't care if people think he rode TB's coat tails.... He's a pragmatic dude. Bottom line to him is winning
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
I doubt Bill would just randomly trade Tom (fricken) Brady without his input.
And then what happens when whomever gets him wins a SB THAT year?
It's such a wonderful hypothetical.
Not ganna happen though.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341 |
Bill pulled the plug on Kosar in 93 and no one saw that coming ...
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum JG Chapter 7 ...
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